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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 18th April 2017, 08:34 PM   #521
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
"It's not how you feel, it's how you look. And you look mahvellous!"


Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
In what way Russia is an enemy of the United States of America?
That question has been frustrating me since about 1991.

We get along a lot better with Germany and Japan, with whom we fought a horribly bloody war. Why can't we and the Russians make more progress?

For quite a while in the 00's, there was the "we are in this struggle with Islamic Terrorist" stuff as a point of common interest. I guess that wasn't important enough.
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Old 18th April 2017, 09:44 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
If you're arguing a technicality, fine, but there is nothing in any of this that remotely supports the pre-war propaganda.

On the contrary, Iraq violated 16 UN Resolutions and other conditions after the Gulf War, anyone of them would have justified an invasion. Break a contract, face the consequences.
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Old 18th April 2017, 10:08 PM   #523
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
...but bear in mind that Clinton's pre-election stance was explicitly anti-Russian, while Trump said he was not seeking conflict with Russia.

Trump will change his tune because Russia knew about the chemical attack in Syria and now this again. The Russians were probably heading toward Alaska as I was posting information of previous Russian intercepts by F-22's of the 477th Fighter Group, which is based at Joint Base, Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska.

Quote:
U.S. Fighter Jets Intercept Russian Bombers Flying Near Alaska

The U.S. scrambled jet fighters to intercept two Russian bombers that flew near the Alaskan coast on Monday night, several American officials said.

The Russian long-range TU-95 Bear bombers breached airspace around the U.S and Canada known as the Alaskan Air Defense Identification Zone in which aircraft must be readily identified and report details of their course and destination. The Russian bombers stayed in international airspace.

The bombers flew near the Aleutian Islands. The Russians also had maritime patrol aircraft in the vicinity.

The U.S. scrambled two F-22 fighters from Elmendorf Air Force Base in Anchorage, Alaska, to intercept the Russian planes.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nati...alaska-n747981

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Old 19th April 2017, 12:19 AM   #524
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
On the contrary, Iraq violated 16 UN Resolutions and other conditions after the Gulf War, anyone of them would have justified an invasion. Break a contract, face the consequences.
The invasion of Iraq was illegal and a war crime. You work for a criminal organisation.

Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
That is what an enemy would do and the Russians were doing it during the Cold War as well.
It's what a country does when being threatened by a world bully suffering from delusions of entitlement and virtue.
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Last edited by JihadJane; 19th April 2017 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:42 AM   #525
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Seriously? That's your conclusion?

Are you unaware of Tillerson's connections to Putin?
I am aware of Tillerson's petrochemical industry connections to Russia but how does that support the assertion that Russia got him into the White House?
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Old 19th April 2017, 01:00 AM   #526
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
(my bolding)
Why are you so sure of this?
Because none has been presented. Only "high confidence" has been expressed, intelspeak for "we haven't got any concrete evidence".
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Old 19th April 2017, 01:09 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Did you miss the whole Ukraine invasion thing?

I don't believe for a second that you're so ignorant of world events.
Russia didn't invade Ukraine. That is a USA propaganda meme, i.e. a big lie.



Quote:
You're the one who ignores the evidence, and then you say that the ignorance is mine? Beautiful.
"High confidence" is intelspeak for "we don't have any concrete evidence". Please show where, in the report you linked to, there is any conclusive evidence that Russia attempted to influence the US election.



Quote:
This isn't skeptical inquiry. This is a ten year-old asking "why" endlessly.

If you influence US elections to favour the guy who has ties to you, and he puts other people who have ties to you into his cabinet, then you have "gotten people with Russian tiest into the White House". Stop pretending to understand or know none of this.
Russia didn't influence the US elections. Despite repeated requests from me for examples of Putin attacking Clinton before the election, you have not provided any.



Quote:
Evidence.
You haven't provided any evidence that Putin attacked Clinton before the election.
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Last edited by JihadJane; 19th April 2017 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 19th April 2017, 02:37 AM   #528
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Russia didn't invade Ukraine. That is a USA propaganda meme, i.e. a big lie.
Putting soldiers in a sovereign country counts as an invasion in my book.

But you're so utterly pro-Putin that this conversation isn't really about evidence, is it?

Any accusation against Russia, you'll dismiss. It's ideological.

Quote:
"High confidence" is intelspeak for "we don't have any concrete evidence".
And "evidence" is interspeak for "no evidence", I suppose? Again, you don't give a rat's ass about evidence. All you care about is the "side" you're on.

Quote:
Russia didn't influence the US elections.
See?
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Old 19th April 2017, 09:04 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Because none has been presented. Only "high confidence" has been expressed, intelspeak for "we haven't got any concrete evidence".
Well, that's about the same way science expresses itself, most things being probabilistic and subject to interpretation. Anyway, regarding publicly divulged intelligence reports, my question to you is, do you allow there may be reasons for redacting such reports to protect sources and methods?
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:31 PM   #530
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Putting soldiers in a sovereign country counts as an invasion in my book.

But you're so utterly pro-Putin that this conversation isn't really about evidence, is it?

Any accusation against Russia, you'll dismiss. It's ideological.



And "evidence" is interspeak for "no evidence", I suppose? Again, you don't give a rat's ass about evidence. All you care about is the "side" you're on.



See?
I don't think Jane is so much pro Putin as she is pro anybody who is Anti American.
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:35 PM   #531
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In related news, Chaffetz,who recused himself from the House Panal investigating Russia's activities in the 2016 election announces he will not be running for reelection in 2018. IMHO, another casualty of the Russian Connection.
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Old 19th April 2017, 01:14 PM   #532
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
The invasion of Iraq was illegal and a war crime. You work for a criminal organisation.

It is all very simple. Iraq committed violations that set the stage for the invasion and the US and UN exercised great restraint in the face of those blatant violations before the invasion commenced.

Quote:
It's what a country does when being threatened by a world bully suffering from delusions of entitlement and virtue.

Blame Saddam, for whom I might add, admired Joseph Stalin and whose policies was similar to Hitler's and who sought and received, Russian military equipment used to slaughter thousands. Putin is not a friend of the US.

.

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Old 19th April 2017, 01:25 PM   #533
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Russia didn't invade Ukraine. That is a USA propaganda meme, i.e. a big lie.

Apparently, these Russians were not killed waterskiing in Ukraine.


Quote:
OVER 2,000 RUSSIAN FIGHTERS KILLED IN UKRAINE: PRESIDENT’S SPOKESMAN

http://www.newsweek.com/over-2000-ru...okesman-434295
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Old 19th April 2017, 01:28 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Russia didn't influence the US elections.
.

Mr. Reality, and his brothers, Mr. Facts, Mr. Evidence, and Mr. Intelligence, do not agree with you.
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Old 19th April 2017, 01:57 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Russia didn't influence the US elections.
Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
.

Mr. Reality, and his brothers, Mr. Facts, Mr. Evidence, and Mr. Intelligence, do not agree with you.
It doesn't matter what Mr. Reality, Mr. Facts, and Mr. Evidence say.

What matters is that "Russia didn't influence the US elections" has been posted, detected by eyeballs, and sent from those eyeballs into brains, there, hopefully, to lodge permanently in the form of belief.
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Old 19th April 2017, 01:58 PM   #536
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I don't think Jane is so much pro Putin as she is pro anybody who is Anti American.
Yes, that's what I think as well.
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Old 19th April 2017, 02:02 PM   #537
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
.

Mr. Reality, and his brothers, Mr. Facts, Mr. Evidence, and Mr. Intelligence, do not agree with you.
Strange names for brothers. Four different fathers, perhaps?
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:11 PM   #538
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
In related news, Chaffetz,who recused himself from the House Panal investigating Russia's activities in the 2016 election announces he will not be running for reelection in 2018. IMHO, another casualty of the Russian Connection.
I had him pegged as a spineless party first hack. Has any news come out connecting him to this?
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:38 PM   #539
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
On the contrary, Iraq violated 16 UN Resolutions and other conditions after the Gulf War, anyone of them would have justified an invasion. Break a contract, face the consequences.
********. That's not how war works according to our constitution.

That case doesn't work with the public, Congress doesn't go for it. That's why there was all the talk about mushroom clouds and collusion over 9-11.

It was all nonsense. Your sources validate that.

If Powell had said in front of the UN, "We believe Iraq may have a bunch of useless, degraded chemical weapons that are just a local environmental hazard now," no war resolution.
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Old 19th April 2017, 06:55 PM   #540
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Strange names for brothers. Four different fathers, perhaps?
They were the sons of Mr. and Mrs. Undeniable. This just in:


****BREAKING NEWS****

Quote:
Russian bombers again fly near Alaska

For the second consecutive night, Russia flew two long-range bombers off the coast of Alaska on Tuesday, this time coming within 36 miles of the mainland while flying north of the Aleutian Islands, two U.S. officials told Fox News.

Last week in Moscow, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said U.S.-Russian relations were at a “low point” during a news conference with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

While Tillerson was in Moscow, a trio of Russian bombers flew near the east coast of Japan, forcing the Japanese military to scramble 14 fighter jets at various times to intercept the bombers. A Russian spy plane traversed Japan’s west coast.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/04/19...ar-alaska.html
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Old 19th April 2017, 07:02 PM   #541
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
It doesn't matter what Mr. Reality, Mr. Facts, and Mr. Evidence say.

In this case, it does.


Quote:
Intel report: Putin directly ordered effort to influence election

Washington (CNN)The US intelligence community concluded in a declassified report released Friday that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an "influence campaign" aimed at hurting Hillary Clinton and helping Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/06/politi...utin-election/


Putin Ordered ‘Influence Campaign’ Aimed at U.S. Election, Report Says


WASHINGTON — American intelligence officials have concluded that the president of Russia, Vladimir V. Putin, personally “ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the U.S. presidential election,” and turned from seeking to “denigrate” Hillary Clinton to developing “a clear preference for President-elect Trump.”

The conclusions were part of a declassified intelligence report, ordered by President Obama, that was released on Friday. Its main determinations were described to Mr. Trump by the nation’s top intelligence officials earlier in the day, and he responded by acknowledging, for the first time, that Russia had sought to hack into the Democratic National Committee’s computer systems. But he insisted that the effort had no effect on the election, and he said nothing about the conclusion that Mr. Putin, at some point last year, decided to aid his candidacy.

The report, a damning and surprisingly detailed account of Russia’s efforts to undermine the American electoral system and Mrs. Clinton in particular, went on to assess that Mr. Putin had “aspired to help President-elect Trump’s election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/06/u...port.html?_r=0
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Old 19th April 2017, 08:57 PM   #542
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Ha ha! Politicians attacking each other!* That's unheard of. It's an outrage!

And, as we all know, the US has never attempted to influence the outcome of an election anywhere in the world and certainly not a Russian one.

Let's go to war!

[/SARCASM]

Get a grip on reality, folks!



* BTW: Please provide an example of Putin attacking Hillary Clinton before the election.


'Stephen Cohen: This is Most Dangerous Moment in U.S.-Russian Relations Since Cuban Missile Crisis':


YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Not having a date on the original video makes it difficult to put in context.
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Old 19th April 2017, 09:15 PM   #543
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Not having a date on the original video makes it difficult to put in context.
Perhaps I can assist you.

The original on YouTube
Quote:
Published on Apr 13, 2017 http://democracynow.org - Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has wrapped up a visit to Moscow, where he met with Russian President Vladimir Putin and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. The meetings come at a time of increased tension between Washington and Moscow. On Wednesday during a press conference, President Trump said relations with Russia had reached a new low point. Trump’s comments came a day after the White House accused Russia of attempting to cover up the role of the Syrian government in the recent chemical attack in Syria that killed 87 people. Russia has rejected the claim, saying the U.S. has been too quick to blame Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. We speak to Stephen Cohen, professor emeritus of Russian studies and politics at New York University and Princeton University.

Which comes from a story on Democracy Now: Stephen Cohen: This is Most Dangerous Moment in U.S.-Russian Relations Since Cuban Missile Crisis

The transcript of the story is at the link.

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Old 20th April 2017, 05:20 PM   #544
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Strange names for brothers. Four different fathers, perhaps?
Miss Information slept around a lot.
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Old 20th April 2017, 05:42 PM   #545
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Can we please return the thread to Trump & Russia, instead of Iraq & WWII?
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Old 20th April 2017, 05:47 PM   #546
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
.

Mr. Reality, and his brothers, Mr. Facts, Mr. Evidence, and Mr. Intelligence, do not agree with you.
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Strange names for brothers. Four different fathers, perhaps?
Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Miss Information slept around a lot.


Well done.
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Old 20th April 2017, 09:32 PM   #547
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Just like the leader of a certain country today is emboldened by the lack of appropriate military action against his violations. But what can the rest of the World do when he has more nukes than anyone else, and isn't afraid to use them?

Putin should know there would be a nuke with his name on it should he become foolish enough to make himself a candidate for vaporization. There are ways to deal with Putin.
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Old 21st April 2017, 12:45 AM   #548
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Putin should know there would be a nuke with his name on it should he become foolish enough to make himself a candidate for vaporization. There are ways to deal with Putin.
No fan of appeasement of dictators myself. However, I cannot see how the above is within the realm of reasonable possibilities.
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Old 21st April 2017, 12:59 AM   #549
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
The best of intentions, in this case, had resulted in the loss of millions because violations committed by the fox @ the chicken coop were ignored for several years until it was too late. The now well-fed and strengthen fox began to tenaciously attack those who waited too long to take care of business when the fox was weak with hunger.

Putin is trying to spread his influence in ways that will be a challenge for the U.S. in the future.

Aw.... poor USA. Someone might be able to put a minor block on its ambitions for rampant global hegemony in the future.


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Old 21st April 2017, 01:09 AM   #550
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Putting soldiers in a sovereign country counts as an invasion in my book.
Has the USA invaded Syria, then?

Quote:
But you're so utterly pro-Putin that this conversation isn't really about evidence, is it?

Any accusation against Russia, you'll dismiss. It's ideological.
Great get-out clause you've got there!

I haven't said anything pro-Putin in this thread.



Quote:
And "evidence" is interspeak for "no evidence", I suppose? Again, you don't give a rat's ass about evidence. All you care about is the "side" you're on.



See?
You have misrepresented regurgitated speculation as concrete evidence.
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Old 21st April 2017, 02:36 AM   #551
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Has the USA invaded Syria, then?
Are they there on request from the state?

Quote:
Great get-out clause you've got there!
What are you babbling about?

Quote:
I haven't said anything pro-Putin in this thread.
Great get-out clause you've got there!

Quote:
You have misrepresented regurgitated speculation as concrete evidence.
Again, what are you talking about? You're not even making arguments, here.
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Old 21st April 2017, 03:56 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Are they there on request from the state?
Crimeans voted to join the Russian Federation.

Are you saying that the USA has invaded Syria?

Quote:
What are you babbling about?
Your plucked-out-of-thin-air,"it's ideological" catch phrase.

Quote:
Great get-out clause you've got there!
You're welcome to point out where I have said anything pro-Putin.

Quote:
Again, what are you talking about? You're not even making arguments, here.
I am talking about the "evidence" you posted. It contains no concrete evidence to suggest that the popular 'Putin hacked the election' meme is anything more than a conspiracy theory.
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Old 21st April 2017, 04:53 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Crimeans voted to join the Russian Federation.
After the invasion, yes. And this is relevant how?

Quote:
Are you saying that the USA has invaded Syria?
I asked you a question in order to find the answer, but you surprisingly didn't answer it.

Quote:
Your plucked-out-of-thin-air,"it's ideological" catch phrase.
No, I plucked it out of my experience with your posts.

Quote:
I am talking about the "evidence" you posted. It contains no concrete evidence to suggest that the popular 'Putin hacked the election' meme is anything more than a conspiracy theory.
Except for all the circumstantial evidence we DO have, and the evidence that has led the CIA and NSA to claim that something DID happen. Why do you ignore all that, I wonder?
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:51 AM   #554
pgwenthold
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Exxon has asked for an exemption from the economic sanctions to do business in Russia.

Will the Trump administration allow it? Just what they need to do, right? Give Russia some favorable treatment in exchange for all Russia has done for them....
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Old 21st April 2017, 11:05 AM   #555
Stacko
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Exxon has asked for an exemption from the economic sanctions to do business in Russia.

Will the Trump administration allow it? Just what they need to do, right? Give Russia some favorable treatment in exchange for all Russia has done for them....
It's been denied.
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Old 21st April 2017, 11:13 AM   #556
Argumemnon
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It's just been revoked!
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Old 21st April 2017, 07:11 PM   #557
Darth Rotor
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Citgo: look at who owns the debt on it and what country owns most of the shares, and who looks to be in default. Then look at how much oil/petrol infrastructure in the US has Citgo's hands on it.

Curiouser and Curiouser, said Alice.

The attached link is not the kind of in depth reporting I prefer, but a few of my friends who work at Citgo are concerned.

Last edited by Darth Rotor; 21st April 2017 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 03:12 AM   #558
jimbob
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Citgo: look at who owns the debt on it and what country owns most of the shares, and who looks to be in default. Then look at how much oil/petrol infrastructure in the US has Citgo's hands on it.

Curiouser and Curiouser, said Alice.

The attached link is not the kind of in depth reporting I prefer, but a few of my friends who work at Citgo are concerned.
Related but different: From badscience:
( Link is gruniad)
Originally Posted by EACLucifer
More Rosneft, with added Venezuala

Quote:
A Venezuelan state-owned oil company, heavily indebted to the Russian oil giant Rosneft, made a $500,000 donation to Donald Trump’s inauguration festivities, it has emerged.

Foreign donations are banned under US law, but the Venezuelan company, PdVSA, made the donation through a US affiliate, Citgo Petrol, soon after offering a nearly 50% stake in Citgo to Rosneft as collateral for a $1.5bn loan.

These transactions come at a time when PdVSA and the Venezuelan government of Nicolas Maduro is desperate for cash as oil revenues shrink and civil unrest grows. The influx of money from Rosneft is helping keep PdVSA and Maduro afloat.
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 22nd April 2017, 03:38 AM   #559
JihadJane
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
After the invasion, yes. And this is relevant how?
I wanted to understand what your definition of what an invasion is. Seems you are confusing incursions with invasion.



Quote:
I asked you a question in order to find the answer, but you surprisingly didn't answer it.





No, I plucked it out of my experience with your posts.



Except for all the circumstantial evidence we DO have, and the evidence that has led the CIA and NSA to claim that something DID happen. Why do you ignore all that, I wonder?

Because one of the intelligence agencies' primary function is to propagandise for the Deep State. The CIA and NSA have not claimed that something DID happen. They have expressed "high confidence" that it could have happened.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 05:40 AM   #560
Argumemnon
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
I wanted to understand what your definition of what an invasion is. Seems you are confusing incursions with invasion.
They sent military personel to establish a military presence in a foreign country and wrest control of a territory from them.

I'd call that more than an incursion. But keep playing with words, sure.

Quote:
Because one of the intelligence agencies' primary function is to propagandise for the Deep State.
I didn't ask you to make stuff up. I asked you for exactly the standard of evidence you were asking for. Now you're down to making wild claims and expecting me to take you on your word when you would not do the same for professional organisations.

I'll remind you that the CIA is not at the beck and call of the President, for instance. You seem to be under the impression that government is a monolithic organisation composed of robots.

Quote:
The CIA and NSA have not claimed that something DID happen. They have expressed "high confidence" that it could have happened.
Playing with words, again.
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