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Old 21st April 2017, 09:04 AM   #1
Fonebone
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Why did the Truth Movement fail ?

Why did the Truth Movement fail ?
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Last edited by Fonebone; 21st April 2017 at 09:05 AM. Reason: correct error
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:06 AM   #2
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Because it lacked truth.

Dave
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:07 AM   #3
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Lack of truth.

ETA: Damn you, Dave.
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:10 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Because it lacked truth.

Dave
So does Trump. How long does failure take on the grounds of lacking truth?

The main reason they failed is that their story was such self-evident bollocks. In the end, there just aren't enough completely stupid people to sustain a story which tries to ignore self-evident bollocks indefinitely, especially when different versions of the self-evident bollocks are contradictory.
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:12 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
So does Trump. How long does failure take on the grounds of lacking truth?
Took a number of years for the truthers. Appealing lies take a while to disappear, if ever. Hell, the Elder of Zion nonsense still have traction a century later.
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:13 AM   #6
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That's the truth.
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:16 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
So does Trump. How long does failure take on the grounds of lacking truth?
Trump's primary aim was to be elected President of the USA. The truth movement's primary aim was to prove that some subset of the conspiracy theories about 9/11 were true. They had about as much chance of succeeding, ultimately, as Trump had of being elected President of Atlantis.

But, yes, I agree that

Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
The main reason they failed is that their story was such self-evident bollocks.
Had it contained any shred of truth, its bollockicity would have been less self-evidence.

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Old 21st April 2017, 09:52 AM   #8
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A contributing factor, IMO, is Lack of Movement.
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Old 21st April 2017, 10:12 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
A contributing factor, IMO, is Lack of Movement.


Yes, this. You can only claim to know The Truth(tm), and are About To Prove It To Everyone(tm), for so long without actually proving anything, before people give up and move on.

This is why the professionals like Alex Jones keep latching onto new CTs: it resets their fans' expectations. When was the last time AJ even mentioned 9/11?
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Old 21st April 2017, 10:30 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Yes, this. You can only claim to know The Truth(tm), and are About To Prove It To Everyone(tm), for so long without actually proving anything, before people give up and move on.

This is why the professionals like Alex Jones keep latching onto new CTs: it resets their fans' expectations. When was the last time AJ even mentioned 9/11?
One professional has successfully found a different approach: Claiming to NOT know the Truth(tm) - no-claimer latching on to eternal inaccountability:

Originally Posted by Richard Gage message to 911TruthTeleConference
AE911Truth does not endorse any particular theories or researchers regarding what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11. And while I have been initially impressed by various presentations on this subject, and offered quotes implying such, these quotes should in no way be construed as an endorsement of any presentations, theories or researchers.
This from the minutes of the January 25 "911 Truth Teleconference" (Links to an MS-Word .doc document - open at your discretion: http://houston911truth.net/25January2017.doc )
Background is a debate between No-Planer Craig McKee (a frequent AE911Truth contributor) and yes-but-somehow-still-faked-planer Barbara Honegger the week before, and remarks by Richard Gage years ago when he distanced himself from the no-plane-at-Pentagon position.
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Old 21st April 2017, 10:31 AM   #11
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A singular lack of evidence to support their alternate 'truth' and said 'truth' being supported by a particularly unbelievable group of characters.
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Old 21st April 2017, 10:47 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
A contributing factor, IMO, is Lack of Movement.
I think an overabundance of movements contributed.
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Old 21st April 2017, 10:53 AM   #13
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Plenty of bowel movement, though.
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Old 21st April 2017, 11:13 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Why did the Truth Movement fail ?
We couldn't handle the Truth.
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Old 21st April 2017, 07:19 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Why did the Truth Movement fail ?
Because, Spreading lies only fools a fringe few?

Because the name was wrong should be, Lies Dumber Than Dirt Movement?

Because there was no truth in the Truth Movement?

Lack of evidence?

Education finally kicked in?

Terminal stupidity was cured?

Taglines like, faster than freefall, never happened before, symmetrical collapse, own footprint, and simile are not evidence?

Nukes, Beam Weapons, Dustified, Melted steel, no planes, missiles, lots of missiles, drones, thermite, thermate, silent explosives, oh my...

False flag, inside job, and other far out conspiracy theories without evidence.
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Old 21st April 2017, 08:03 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Why did the Truth Movement fail ?
Well, it hasn't been a complete failure. Sure, as a grassroots political movement, it suffered from poor management and relied mainly on falsehoods told by unqualified individuals who were far, far from of their fields of expertise. So it's not hard to understand why it came crashing back to earth after a very brief period of internet-fueled popularity.

9/11 Truth has succeeded, however, in supplying a nearly endless supply of assclowns to ridicule over the years and the only shame is the supply has dwindled down to the hopelessly stupid and internet trolls.

Don't worry though. Trump should launch a suspicious False Flag Op or two. Buck up.
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Old 21st April 2017, 08:48 PM   #17
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I wouldn't say it failed because this implies there was ever a chance to succeed.

What happened was that the majority of people who had questions about the events of 9-11 eventually found answers and move on. The rest have seen just how stupid the US Government is on a day-to-day basis, even after 9-11, and have a better understanding of how much of a leaking sieve the most secret agencies are thanks to Wikileaks and the NYTimes.
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:06 PM   #18
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I do miss the good ol' days. http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...d8430f0ca9.jpg
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:10 PM   #19
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I wouldn't call it a failure.

Just today I saw an ad for some TV show purporting to re-examine the JFK assassination from a person who apparently worked in some capacity at the CIA.

The goal of any conspiracy theory is to drive a sliver of doubt into any mind and to provide important ego reinforcement to a few. I think 9/11 conspiracy theories will age very well.
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Old 21st April 2017, 10:09 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Why did the Truth Movement fail ?

Truthers were very gullible, which left them open to disinformation, misinformation, and outright lies and they were not interested in doing their homework properly.
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Old 21st April 2017, 10:36 PM   #21
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They didn't fail. They just managed to prove their hypothesis incorrect.
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Old 21st April 2017, 10:37 PM   #22
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Bush left office.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 12:19 AM   #23
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All wrong, every single point.

The primary reason the Truth Movement failed was there was no more money to made out of it. That well ran dry. It cost more to publicise than it took in from the gullible idiots.

That was just about the only reason the whole thing existed in the first place anyway: People were able to get others to pay them to "contribute to my internet film" or "be guest speakers" or "buy my book" or "be a credible witness" or whatever. Alex Jones used this method to keep himself employed the last 14 years! Infowars didn't pay for itself - someone somewhere had to be sending him cash...

It's the same money-grabbing shtick for all the JFK or moon-landing or chemtrails conspiracy nuts who are not complete swivel-eyed bonkers (and often some who are). Think of any looney conspiracy and someone somewhere is trying to make a buck out of it by promoting stuff. The internet just makes it easier.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 12:44 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Why did the Truth Movement fail ?
Well you are, or were, a part of that movement.
Why do you think it failed?
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Old 22nd April 2017, 03:40 AM   #25
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Because they were wrong.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 04:01 AM   #26
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Because the whole movement was founded on fiction and fraud.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 05:03 AM   #27
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The last nail in the coffin has been the Plasco collapse. It showed the true colours of the only remaining money makers to most of those who were too colour-blind to see them.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 05:08 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Why did the Truth Movement fail ?
It failed due to Fundamental divorce from reality.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 06:21 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Why did the Truth Movement fail ?
Everyone pretty much nailed it. Two big factors emerge - one being, of course, that there was never any "truth" in this "Truth Movement". It was always an agenda-driven movement, with the common denominator being Bush Derangement Syndrome. The money side, as was mentioned, as well was a big thing with that drying up. As the opening post to this thread pointed out, even Captain Bob at P4T has moved on to another scam, that being "chemtrails". When that bottoms out perhaps we can get into the REAL stuff, that being John Lear's alien moon bases.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 06:39 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Took a number of years for the truthers. Appealing lies take a while to disappear, if ever. Hell, the Elder of Zion nonsense still have traction a century later.
So do appalling lies!!!!!!! Troofers get negative points for both!!!!!!
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Old 22nd April 2017, 06:41 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
A contributing factor, IMO, is Lack of Movement.
Yes, they were certainly constipated!!! That they were full of **** was clear evidence of that!!!
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Old 22nd April 2017, 06:46 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Well, it hasn't been a complete failure. Sure, as a grassroots political movement, it suffered from poor management and relied mainly on falsehoods told by unqualified individuals who were far, far from of their fields of expertise. So it's not hard to understand why it came crashing back to earth after a very brief period of internet-fueled popularity.

9/11 Truth has succeeded, however, in supplying a nearly endless supply of assclowns to ridicule over the years and the only shame is the supply has dwindled down to the hopelessly stupid and internet trolls.

Don't worry though. Trump should launch a suspicious False Flag Op or two. Buck up.
Hopefully attrition by Darwin worthy methods of deceasement will proceed apace and quickly thus!!!!
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Old 22nd April 2017, 08:00 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Why did the Truth Movement fail ?
not enough accordion

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Old 22nd April 2017, 08:04 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
So does Trump. How long does failure take on the grounds of lacking truth?

The main reason they failed is that their story was such self-evident bollocks. In the end, there just aren't enough completely stupid people to sustain a story which tries to ignore self-evident bollocks indefinitely, especially when different versions of the self-evident bollocks are contradictory.
But almost everything Trump says is self-evidently bullocks.

I think it was a combination of it being total ******** - that cuts out 40% of the population - and the fact that it didn't have a coherent niche in our weird, limited political discourse.

Some of it was clearly anti-Bush, so the 35-40% who love Trump no matter what he says is fractured, as most of those folks are conservative. They're happy to believe that there were 5 million undocumented votes cast or Obama was a Muslim born in Kenya, but the 9-11 stuff undercut their own nonsensical worldview.

There was nothing about it that allowed Fox News/Beck/Breitbart types to pump it over and over such that Republican politicians started hinting at it to win votes.

In other words, the people inclined to be drawn to it for its anti-Bush, anti-Neocon bent were largely driven away by how dumb and obviously wrong it all was, and the people who would be willing to accept it (as they had the endless fake Clinton conspiracy theories) were turned off by the anti-Bush element. That left a very small percent of the country to convince, and then it just died on the vine because the principles were an assortment of the inept and insane.

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Old 22nd April 2017, 08:28 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Why did the Truth Movement fail ?

A (capital M) Movement requires a specific, attainable goal. For example, the Civil Rights Movement wanted an end to specific laws that segregated the population by race. Once the Movement's goal is attained or once it is shown that the goal is unattainable, it will naturally disperse. Movements with a key leader or figurehead can be dispersed before the goal is attained or determined to be unattainable by removing that key person. However, if the Movement had previously put in place a method to replace that person, it can continue.

To apply this to the Truth Movement, there a number of reasons why it dispersed when and how it did. However, in my opinion, the main reason it failed was the original group completely lacked a specific, attainable goal. They were Just Asking QuestionsTM. Stumbling onto the realization that JAQing off isn't the basis of an actual movement, the various groups settled on what appeared a goal of requesting a new investigation of the events.

However, this isn't really a specific goal, and when pressed on the specifics, unsurprisingly no one could clarify what a "new investigation" meant, who would head the group in charge of investigating, the time frame, how the costs would be covered, etc. In order to make it as a Movement, all of the details needed to be laid out clearly, and nothing ever was. That alone was enough to doom those marching under the banner of 9/11 Truth.

Movements in recent times always had clear objectives, even if they were unrealistic (such as Occupy Wall Street). Once OWS realized their goal was unattainable, they disbanded, but one cannot say the Movement as an entity was a failure, just that they failed to achieve their ends.

The Truth Movement, however, can be seen as a failure as a movement, rather than one that just failed to meet its objectives, because those objectives never really existed in the first place. Congratulations to 9/11 Truth, you failed to even make it as a failed Movement!
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Old 22nd April 2017, 09:55 AM   #36
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They claimed for years all they wanted were independent investigations and then they waved their hands when it was shown to them that there were at least two independent collapse investigation reports re WTC 7 besides the NIST report (WAI's report and Bailey/Arup's report). As far as I can tell, AE911Truth has never even shared these with its followers, which tells any follower with even a scintilla of critical thinking what AE911Truth is all about. Further, the Plasco collapse presented another chance for those folks to beclown themselves, and they jumped right to it. Of course, AE911Truth has, predictably, failed to share with its followers the outcome of the Iranian investigation. (They explicitly ruled out a controlled demolition and found it was fires that brought the building down.)

Given any opportunity to meaningfully discuss the collapses on 9-11 and related events, AE911Truth can only lie, distort, and deny its followers complete information. You can only get away with that for so long. It was a house that of cards made out of blatant lies and ignorance. It was just a matter of time before it came down.

While even true believer types have left the truth movement recently per the above, I should also note that I think the biggest blow to the truth movement writ large came when South Park made them a punchline to its millions of viewers.

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Old 22nd April 2017, 10:08 AM   #37
TraneWreck
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For all the abject stupidity that everyone has mentioned, if a Clinton or Obama had been sitting in the White House when the towers fell, you know the Truth Movement would be going strong.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 10:23 AM   #38
DGM
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It's hard to say when something fails if it never really got started.

"Truthers" spend their entire existence asking for someone else to do something...........
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Old 22nd April 2017, 12:42 PM   #39
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I think a very large factor has been the constant, tireless efforts of the good posters here and elsewhere who didn't, at least for the most part, resort to name-calling (or taking the bait of 911 Truth supporters' name-calling) and instead put their emotions aside and took the time to show patiently and rigorously why the 911 Truth claims were invalid. Those people know who they are - well done to you.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 05:14 PM   #40
Myriad
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Why did the Truth Movement fail ?

Fail to do what?
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