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Tags bigfoot , bigfoot sightings , NAWAC

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Old 7th March 2015, 11:05 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
I don't understand the indignation here. Drew asked a perfectly valid question, especially considering the fact that Hill and Brown already have such a relationship as I detailed in post 162. Disappointing; someone is being a dick and it isn't Drew.

I think it is a valid question, considering her 180 degree turn in critical thinking.

I also think Bipto has poisoned the well, probably bad mouthing anyone who has ever criticized him or Nawac in any way.
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Old 7th March 2015, 12:31 PM   #202
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Ehhhh.

Sharon and I aren't exactly on friendly terms these days, but I really doubt any poor intentions or financial deals on her part. I don't know why this particular run-of-the-mill Bigfoot claims deserve more attention than the rest, but I don't think there's anything on her part more than trying (perhaps a bit too hard) to keep an open mind.
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Old 7th March 2015, 12:33 PM   #203
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Her opinion as to evidence has changed 180 degrees. Her own writings from the past indicate a much higher bar for what she considers evidence.



Those are all stories and interpretation of observations based on wishful thinking. We have never found solid evidence of a Bigfoot. Tracks, traces, anecdotes... shouldn't there be MORE than that? Individuals have different ideas about what evidence is convincing to them. My bar is set much higher in response to this particular claim due to its implausible nature. This is why scientist are not too interested in cryptid-hunting. The evidence is weak and explainable through other means. It's extreme to think that if there was a new ape out there to find in North America that, first, we would not already have found it decades ago, and, second, that scientists would not be falling over themselves trying to study it.

Sharon Hill.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sharon...b_3886582.html

Something has changed her standards. Something has caused her consider evidence she tossed off as weak in the past to be now worthwhile.

Explain yourself Sharon - enquiring minds want to know.

And yes - that was a direct reference to The National Enquirer which is where your recent report on Brian Brown's Monkey Molesting For Money missive belongs.
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Last edited by rockinkt; 7th March 2015 at 12:34 PM. Reason: remove excessive quote/spelingz
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Old 7th March 2015, 12:44 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Ehhhh.

Sharon and I aren't exactly on friendly terms these days, but I really doubt any poor intentions or financial deals on her part. I don't know why this particular run-of-the-mill Bigfoot claims deserve more attention than the rest, but I don't think there's anything on her part more than trying (perhaps a bit too hard) to keep an open mind.
What about your relationship with Sharon affords you this interpretation?
Why would her new company that specifically does this type of work being hired to do the project be enough reason?

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Old 7th March 2015, 12:49 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Something has changed her standards. Something has caused her consider evidence she tossed off as weak in the past to be now worthwhile.
It's those damned emotions, and the attractions they can cause.

In this case maybe her consulting business psyche is emotionally attracted to his slick marketing savvy.

RayG
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Old 7th March 2015, 01:25 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by RayG View Post
It's those damned emotions, and the attractions they can cause.

In this case maybe her consulting business psyche is emotionally attracted to his slick marketing savvy.

RayG
Based on the new standard of evidence as pioneered by the noted skeptic - Sharon Hill - the purely anecdotal evidence and unfounded speculation in this thread is enough to indicate that there is something to your hypothesis.
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Old 7th March 2015, 05:32 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
But can you really use them effectively in dense forest? Seems that IF any rocks were thrown it'd be from much closer than the claimants attest just because there are so few clear lines of site through those dense canopies.
True enough. Mythbusters were able to get around 25% of their golf balls through a tree; going through multiple trees would be harder.

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/my...s-air-golfers/

But of course, we don't know where the site was or how things were laid out. Gablemp seemed to have a clear line of sight from an elevated position. Would a slingshot, or a potato cannon, have enough range that most of the flight would be above the tree cover?

However, I'd point out that the target is the roof of a cabin. If you miss, then the rock becomes a "wood knock" or a "movement through bush." And it's not like you're charged by the rock.

Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
More to the point, I'm unconvinced any rocks were thrown or otherwise propelled. All we have are claims of people saying that rocks were thrown and photos of rocks.

I have never heard anyone who wasn't already a 'footer make a rock throw claim - and I'm a field biologist. An unusually high proportion of the people I know have spent an unusually high proportion of their time in the woods.

Thus, I think the simplest explanation does not even require the millenia-old technology of a slingshot.
That's an interesting observation, and I would bet that you're right. Still, the story's so weak you don't even need to invoke a deliberate hoax by the bigfooters.

I suspect that the giveaway is the time they set up IR cameras and the rocks stopped. That indicates the rock-throwing, if there was any, was done by humans, who knew the cameras were there, and more importantly that they would be caught in the act, so the throwing didn't need anything as elaborate as two pieces of rubber tubing.

Looking over this thread again, I notice someone else also mentioned slingshots earlier than this. Sorry!
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Old 7th March 2015, 05:34 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Based on the new standard of evidence as pioneered by the noted skeptic - Sharon Hill - the purely anecdotal evidence and unfounded speculation in this thread is enough to indicate that there is something to your hypothesis.
Also, Santa Claus. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence there. Santa Denialists make the ridiculous claim of a concerted conspiracy between adults to keep the truth from children, but is that really plausible?
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Old 7th March 2015, 05:49 PM   #209
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https://idoubtit.wordpress.com/2015/...past-few-days/

Sharon Hill's response to the recent common sense comments about her unusual stance.
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Old 7th March 2015, 06:13 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
https://idoubtit.wordpress.com/2015/...past-few-days/

Sharon Hill's response to the recent common sense comments about her unusual stance.
Yeah, she posted an edited version of this earlier. Apparently she doesn't want to hear from "denialist skeptics," or in other words, those skeptics who understand this is an imaginary animal, and more importantly why it's imaginary. Truly disappointing coming from a critical thinker whose opinion I valued. Not so much anymore.
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Old 7th March 2015, 06:20 PM   #211
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Meh...whatever from what I can see....Sharon and Brian are a match made in heaven as long as they are getting accolades and atta-boys it's all good!
Start asking real questions not so much...in fact the way she handles her blog reminds me of our old friend TJ and how he "moderates" his tube channel.
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Old 7th March 2015, 06:48 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Meh...whatever from what I can see....Sharon and Brian are a match made in heaven as long as they are getting accolades and atta-boys it's all good!
Start asking real questions not so much...in fact the way she handles her blog reminds me of our old friend TJ and how he "moderates" his tube channel.
Yeah, I modified my last post after giving her comments moderation some thought.
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Old 7th March 2015, 06:56 PM   #213
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Guys, I hate to get all moderator-y, but do let's keep in mind that Sharon Hill is a member here and thus covered by the MA. Let's not make this about her personally.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Bigfoot-bashing.
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Old 7th March 2015, 07:54 PM   #214
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Noted psychic detective Noreen Renier is also member here.
At least she has the integrity to answer her critics in an open forum instead of hiding behind her own self-moderated blog.
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Old 7th March 2015, 08:10 PM   #215
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How do we know the cameras were installed then removed?
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Old 7th March 2015, 09:06 PM   #216
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Well I just read some of their report. Lots of sighting, including about to shoot it, getting followed, etc, but not one picture. GoPro anyone?
But anyways, are these people all volunteers or are they getting paid and are they buying all this equipment out of their own pockets?
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Old 8th March 2015, 03:40 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by FFed View Post
Well I just read some of their report. Lots of sighting, including about to shoot it, getting followed, etc, but not one picture. GoPro anyone?
But anyways, are these people all volunteers or are they getting paid and are they buying all this equipment out of their own pockets?
Volunteers - but part of a non-profit society with the stated purpose of protecting Bigfoot or words to that effect. I'm not kidding.
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Old 8th March 2015, 05:50 AM   #218
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Someone has to have some integrity.

Someone has to be honest.

Someone has to really want to know.

As already mentioned:

Put some cameras/mics in the woods on your own, and don't say a word.
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Old 8th March 2015, 06:12 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Volunteers - but part of a non-profit society with the stated purpose of protecting Bigfoot or words to that effect. I'm not kidding.
Nothing like having all your expenses paid to go camping!
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Old 8th March 2015, 06:16 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Nothing like having all your expenses paid to go camping!
A week away from the little woman, just the guys, beer and special weaponry. Sounds just like a fishing trip except you don't have to clean any fish.
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Old 8th March 2015, 07:08 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Someone has to have some integrity.

Someone has to be honest.

Someone has to really want to know.

As already mentioned:

Put some cameras/mics in the woods on your own, and don't say a word.
If the team has been chosen correctly something like this will never happen. It is a conspiracy of mutual trust and the idea that nobody there would hoax or lie or allow related outsiders to hoax. In that respect, the project is run too much like a legitimate observational science project when it should really be done something like a criminal investigation where truly anybody(s) can be a nefarious perpetrator.

Same thing happened with the Michigan Recording Project habituation. A correct team was established and so nobody was a whistleblower nor would they want to be. When you love the fantasy role-playing game you don't want to be the one to end it all.
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Old 8th March 2015, 07:09 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
A week away from the little woman, just the guys, beer and special weaponry. Sounds just like a fishing trip except you don't have to clean any fish.
Having spent sometime in the area...it would be a blast spending a week hanging out fishing, hiking, snooping around.
Then at night playing sniper team Bigfoot "reporting for duty Capt. Brown"!!
I really can't think of a better way of spending a week!?!
Do you think they keep a garden since their on site during the growing season?

Oh oh and Capt. Brown I can find Bigfoot sign with the best of them..
http://youtu.be/nRDQJ8fccvA
To save Bigfoot we must kill Bigfoot!!!

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Old 8th March 2015, 07:22 AM   #223
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They're not the only ones with that idea either. Remember, these are the mountains that for years have been the Loch Ness of the Bigfoot world to anyone who's attended the Bigfoot Festival in Honobia. Locals, tourists, outdoorsy college kids looking for something different to do on spring break - folks in that region know the best place to go squatchin.
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Old 8th March 2015, 07:30 AM   #224
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And the best part is their expense's are being paid to do it!!
Capt. Browns a genius!!
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Old 8th March 2015, 07:35 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Yeah, she posted an edited version of this earlier. Apparently she doesn't want to hear from "denialist skeptics," or in other words, those skeptics who understand this is an imaginary animal, and more importantly why it's imaginary. Truly disappointing coming from a critical thinker whose opinion I valued. Not so much anymore.

I find this part troubling:

Originally Posted by Sharon Hill
...If it turns out to be an elaborate ruse, that’s a sound answer I will accept. But I do not see the evidence for that at the present time. If you have such evidence, beyond speculation and accusations, document it.
On the face of it, this sounds like a perfectly reasonable, open-minded approach. On the other hand, placed in context of the possibility that an undiscovered great ape is actually living in Oklahoma, and all the related problems and assumptions that entails, it is perfectly valid to point out that a ruse is the vastly likelier explanation, irrespective of the current state of evidence. What Dr. Hill seems to be implying is that all possibilities are on the table and deserve equal respect and consideration, an implication seemingly consistent with her self-described "neutral" stance.

Whatever Dr. Hill's actual intent may be here (and it would be wonderful if she could explain it right here in this thread, rather than the likes of me trying to guess), she has to know that "you can't prove it's fake" statements of the genre I've quoted above have been applied for years to all sorts of paranormal claims, in an effort to shift the burden of proof from the claimant to the debunker. Skeptics will, of course, recognize that this is precisely the attitude that has allowed quacks, frauds, con men, and promoters of nonsense to exist and thrive for centuries. Based on her previous body of work (which I have admired greatly), I can't yet accept that this is Dr. Hill's goal.

As I stated earlier, I too am mystified why Dr. Hill considers this report as any different from the garden-variety Bigfoot silliness. Rock throwing? Unexplained nocturnal noises? Shapes and shadows, always just out of camera range? Biological samples getting "lost"? And after 10 years of dedicated searching, not a single...anything at all? This comprises a compelling argument, one that stands out among the other mountains of utter BF drivel??

I really, really, don't get it.
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Old 8th March 2015, 08:20 AM   #226
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I was more astounded at her reply to Drews question

Quote:
Drewbot
March 6, 2015 at 1:52 PM

For the sake of disclosure.

Do you have any deal in the works regarding TV or Podcast team up with Brian Brown?
Quote:
idoubtit
March 6, 2015 at 11:49 PM


Was that dickish comment directed at me?
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Old 8th March 2015, 09:04 AM   #227
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A reasonably competent bowhunter would've pulled a wood ape from area x after the first interaction. After all, the decision of where to set up your blind/tree stand is made for you. It would be a simple waiting game.

Of course, the excuses as to why this scheme is flawed would began as soon as it was suggested. That's because bigfootery is based on excuse-making, has to be. Because of course, not a single bigfoot, part of one, bone, fossil or dna sequence of one has ever been brought to light during the natural history of North America. Not rarely or infrequently, not ever. This means every criticism of the proponent argument has to be met with an excuse, or what some call "explanation." As if there were an explanation good enough to deflect the absolute fact that the alleged habitat of ole foo has been occupied by humans for thousands upon thousands of years; millions upon millions of humans, spending billions of hours afield armed, looking for things to kill, ways to survive, ways to feed their families. And all this thousands of years before the even more rapacious Europeans arrived, looking to do the same, and some of them for profit, armed with better technology. There is no excuse worthy of discussion that can negate this fact of NA natural history. None.
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Old 8th March 2015, 09:16 AM   #228
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The hilarious part is the property is rented out to HUNTERS using multiple cabins for days, a week or weeks....who knows.
This was the first chuckle I got out of this silly story!
So lets get this straight bigfoot hauls butt during hunting season but shows up every spring to hang out and harass the same group of people at the same place for 10 yrs....and this group of people have nothing to support their claims.... okey-dokey!
If their claims are true I'll throw this challenge out there....give me unfettered access to this site...I come and go unannounced no footers on site... If there's an ape there doing what they claim its doing while I'm there...multiple specimens will be harvested in less than a week.
I will also host the "skeptics crow eating barbeque" for all to attend

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Old 8th March 2015, 09:23 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
The hilarious part is the property is rented out to HUNTERS using multiple cabins for days, a week or weeks....who knows.
This was the first chuckle I got out of this silly story!
So lets get this straight bigfoot hauls butt during hunting season but shows up every spring to hang out and harass the same group of people at the same place for 10 yrs....and this group of people have nothing to support their claims.... okey-dokey!
A ten year litany of failure and they want support from the public...
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Old 8th March 2015, 10:35 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
Dr. Hill . . .
Not to be dickish, but Ms. Hill has a Bachelor of Science degree in Geosciences and a Master of Education degree in Science and the Public. She is not a doctor.

Carry on.
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Old 8th March 2015, 10:36 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
A ten year litany of failure and they want support from the public...
And if there's one group that doesn't deserve public support, it's these guys. Because even if you accord them every benefit of every doubt, and Bigfeet are as common in this patch of woods as they claim, any remotely competent research team should have found abundant proof of their existence by now.
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Old 8th March 2015, 10:37 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Not to be dickish, but Ms. Hill has a Bachelor of Science degree in Geosciences and a Master of Education degree in Science and the Public. She is not a doctor.

Carry on.
Noted, and thanks for the correction (one does want to be accurate after all).
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Old 8th March 2015, 10:38 AM   #233
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Why don't they allow tranquilizer guns on these little jaunts? I could see the argument against real guns, but what's wrong with ten cc's of standard animal trank and giving ol' Squatch a nice nap?

Of course, I know what the reason is; the reason is that there is no Squatch, and anyone who fired off a tranquilizer dart would most probably end up putting one of their hosts to sleep for a few hours. Much hilarity would ensue.
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Old 8th March 2015, 10:46 AM   #234
Stellafane
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Why don't they allow tranquilizer guns on these little jaunts? I could see the argument against real guns, but what's wrong with ten cc's of standard animal trank and giving ol' Squatch a nice nap?

Of course, I know what the reason is; the reason is that there is no Squatch, and anyone who fired off a tranquilizer dart would most probably end up putting one of their hosts to sleep for a few hours. Much hilarity would ensue.
Yes, and this speaks to the thing that I find so mystifying. It's not that Ms. Hill has fallen for a Bigfoot story, it's that she's apparently done so for such an ordinary one, with all the seemingly obvious problems, illogic, and inconsistencies. A well-done video I could sort of understand. Some unidentifiable sample of something, even I may start reconsidering. But thrown rocks and spooky noises that go bump in the night? If that all it takes, one might as well have been believing in Bigfoot all along.
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Old 8th March 2015, 10:56 AM   #235
FFed
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Volunteers - but part of a non-profit society with the stated purpose of protecting Bigfoot or words to that effect. I'm not kidding.
Thanks. Now that I am not on my phone I can dig a bit deeper. I see on their site that they are a "501(c)(3) charitable organization".

I just downloaded the entire list from the IRS and don't see them listed.

http://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/mainSear...d=selectSearch
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Old 8th March 2015, 11:01 AM   #236
Cervelo
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Why don't they allow tranquilizer guns on these little jaunts? I could see the argument against real guns, but what's wrong with ten cc's of standard animal trank and giving ol' Squatch a nice nap?

Of course, I know what the reason is; the reason is that there is no Squatch, and anyone who fired off a tranquilizer dart would most probably end up putting one of their hosts to sleep for a few hours. Much hilarity would ensue.
Well since this group of people...who essentially have a very large animal trying to commit suicide on a regular predictable schedule can't hit one with a real gun.
I can assure you they won't hit one with a tranq gun/rifle they are very inaccurate.
Then there's the whole issue of dosage and acquiring the drugs....oh good grief I'm starting take this serious LOL!

Lets get to the real issue...I predict coming to a theater, website near you.....

Last edited by Cervelo; 8th March 2015 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 8th March 2015, 11:08 AM   #237
jhunter1163
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Well since this group of people...who essentially have a very large animal trying to commit suicide on a regular predictable schedule can't hit one with a real gun.
I can assure you they won't hit one with a tranq gun/rifle they are very inaccurate.
Then there's the whole issue of dosage and acquiring the drugs....oh good grief I'm starting take this serious LOL!
Dosage would be easy. Just size up your hosts.
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Old 8th March 2015, 11:10 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Volunteers - but part of a non-profit society with the stated purpose of protecting Bigfoot or words to that effect. I'm not kidding.
Yep, it is a 501(c)(3) charity, and donations are encouraged.
http://woodape.org/index.php/donations

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Donations

The North American Wood Ape Conservancy depends on the financial and in-kind support of its members, friends, institutions, organizations, and other entities recognizing the value of our endeavors. All expenses incurred as a result of outreach activities to schools and civic organizations are undertaken by participating members, as are travel, lodging, and meal expenses pertaining to research and investigation activities; no members receive per diem or other forms of financial compensation. As a 501(c)(3) charitable organization, donors can be assured that contributions directly support the NAWAC mission statement. All donations are tax deductible.

The NAWAC is grateful for any support that you may offer. If you believe in what we are doing, please click on the corresponding donate button below to make your tax deductible contribution.
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Old 8th March 2015, 11:22 AM   #239
Cervelo
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Dosage would be easy. Just size up your hosts.
Gawd that would be funny...... Good lord you've tranq'd Capt. Brown!
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Old 8th March 2015, 11:38 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Dosage would be easy. Just size up your hosts.
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