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Tags Brilliant Light Power , free energy , Randell Mills

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Old 9th January 2017, 04:39 PM   #121
Captain_Swoop
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
The new model produces orders of magnitude more power using order of magnitudes less space, and it is portable. No need for a power grid.
If this was real he would be producing the earlier model and would have already transformed power generation and the worlds economy. Factories would be running on them, cargo ships would be running on them, trains would be running on them, aircraft carriers and destroyers would be running on them, subs would be running on them, power plants would be running on them.
He would be a billionaire and would have unlimited resources for further development, he would have transformed the world economy.

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Old 9th January 2017, 04:45 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
I didn't notice that. What I saw was a nervous engineer who probably never gives public presentations.

Actually, he sounds exactly like the hundreds of scientists and engineers I've seen giving talks at industry conferences and the like over the last 18 years or so. Heck, he kind of sounds like me.
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:08 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
You got me thinking about the actual form of the energy released when the atoms drop into the sub-ground state. Can m-suede tell us the wavelength of the electromagnetic energy as it is first released (separate from its absorption and re-emission as heat and light)? And is it a series of narrow wavelengths, such as an LED, or more a diffuse spectra similar to that emitted by hot black bodies as he implies?

A back of an envelope calculation with 13.6 eV ground state hydrogen puts the maximum (ground to zip) at about 91 nm wavelength. That's ultraviolet closer to X-rays then to the visual spectrum. Since zero electron orbital energy is probably too much of a scam giveaway, you have to figure the claim to be anywhere from radio to UV. Heck, unless you're really pushing the claimed orbital difference you're probably talking about microwave to IR. Both probably better at just heating water.
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:12 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
It's way harder to ram a steam engine into a car than a geodesic photovoltaic dome.

There's so much power being produced by the reaction that even if they just got a 5% conversion rate, that still means they are producing 50 kw.

The PV generator has no moving parts and will last for 20 years virtually maintenance free. Try that with a steam engine. Maintenance costs and longevity need to be taken into consideration when calculating if a PV is better than steam power. There's also the regulatory complications of a grid tied power source. The current solution by-passes all the power plant regulations and leaves the device regulated like any other gas powered home generator.
And what what about the vastly better conversion efficiency of using the very finely honed steam turbine systems already available instead of using this magic future solar cell array technology? Wouldn't the added, fairly minor problems of maintaining a moving parts device be trivial compared to the money gained through this added efficiency? And remember- most houses already use air conditioners, which have moving parts and are essentially a boiler/generator in reverse. And also remember that you are (at 5% efficiency) proposing to discard nearly 1 megawatt of heat when using the solar cells- one is going to have to move that heat out of the generator somehow- wouldn't you need a moving parts recirculating system to do this any way, and why not use it to boil a fluid and gain some extra energy from it???
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:16 PM   #125
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At least use the waste heat to warm the house or heat your bath water.
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:18 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
A back of an envelope calculation with 13.6 eV ground state hydrogen puts the maximum (ground to zip) at about 91 nm wavelength. That's ultraviolet closer to X-rays then to the visual spectrum. Since zero electron orbital energy is probably too much of a scam giveaway, you have to figure the claim to be anywhere from radio to UV. Heck, unless you're really pushing the claimed orbital difference you're probably talking about microwave to IR. Both probably better at just heating water.
Hydrino light signature:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VyTCyizqrH.../blplight1.jpg

Rowan University also provides a full spectrum in their report on page 44.

http://brilliantlightpower.com/wp-co...d%20Report.pdf

Nothing produces a light spectrum like that.

BrLP also used the CfA's spectrometers for a test, coming up with emissions below 80nm.

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Old 9th January 2017, 05:20 PM   #127
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The key rule to remember in evaluating any investment proposal: "If it sounds too good to be true- chances are it is." Surprises do happen from time to time, but the more outlandish the claim the more solid proof one should demand (videos made by the people pushing the claim are not proof). And the more the device claims previously unknown physics discovered by someone with no suitable training or related education, and the more failed promises in the past, the more I think of Thoreau's statement, "The more he spoke of his honor the faster we counted our [silverware].
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:23 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Hydrino light signature:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VyTCyizqrH.../blplight1.jpg

Rowan University also provides a full spectrum in their report on page 44.

http://brilliantlightpower.com/wp-co...d%20Report.pdf

Nothing produces a light spectrum like that.

BrLP also used the CfA's spectrometers for a test, coming up with emissions below 80nm.
Sure- just tell me where you want your emission peaks and I can produce for you a graph that shows just that! Easy. What device would you like me to claim I used? I may even have one already in my lab, but this would not be essential- just an added complication in fact.

BTW- I hope they are wearing their sunscreen!

Last edited by Giordano; 9th January 2017 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:27 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Rowan University also provides a full spectrum in their report on page 44.

Here's another thing. These guys at Rowan are often touted as being "independent confirmation" of BLP's claims, but if you actually look into it, they're not so independent as you might think.
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:30 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Sure- just tell me where you want your emission peaks and I can produce for you a graph that shows just that! Easy. What device would you like me to claim I used? I may even have one already in my lab, but this would not be essential- just an added complication in fact.

BTW- I hope they are wearing their sunscreen!
Also- I just noticed the posts sent to AAH. I don't fully understand all the rationale behind this so my apologies if any of my subsequent posts might have run afoul of the same concerns. I am only intending to discuss the science and documentation behind the device in these posts- not personalities or conspiracies.
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:35 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Here's another thing. These guys at Rowan are often touted as being "independent confirmation" of BLP's claims, but if you actually look into it, they're not so independent as you might think.
I don't see them as being any less independent than Underwriters Labs is.

Companies have to pay to get their products tested. That's just how business works.

Given the ramifications of the findings, the professors at Rowan, Illinois and UNC Asheville have all placed their academic reputations on the line with their validation reports.
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:49 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
I don't see them as being any less independent than Underwriters Labs is.

Companies have to pay to get their products tested. That's just how business works.

Given the ramifications of the findings, the professors at Rowan, Illinois and UNC Asheville have all placed their academic reputations on the line with their validation reports.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/nucl...ser-hot-or-not

Quote:
This past October, BlackLight announced the ”independent validation” of its solid-fuel reactor by a group led by Peter Jansson, a professor of engineering at Rowan University, in Glassboro, N.J.

...

But critics have raised questions about the replication. They point out that the Rowan group simply borrowed reactors from BlackLight instead of preparing their own from scratch and that Jansson has been a collaborator of Mills’s.
So, it's not merely a case of "paying to have their equipment tested", it was tested by someone previously associated with Mills.

As for their "academic reputations", well, look here. Jansson's current CV doesn't even allude to BLP or any of his work in their devices.
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:53 PM   #133
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Yeah, the IEEE never bothered to send their own validators and they ignored the reports from a half dozen scientists saying Mills was legit. No surprise there.

If you don't like Rowan's professors, there's always Illinois and Asheville. Of course, you probably don't believe them either.
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:57 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Nothing produces a light spectrum like that.
Of that, one can be certain.







Freudian slip?

Try 'Nothing else produces a light spectrum like that' for future reference.
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:59 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
If you don't like Rowan's professors, there's always Illinois and Asheville. Of course, you probably don't believe them either.


I'll believe them if I'm paying you a hundred bucks in a year and a half.
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Old 9th January 2017, 06:05 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
I'll believe them if I'm paying you a hundred bucks in a year and a half.
Yeah, we shall see how this plays out.

My worry isn't with Mills, it's with Columbia Tech's ability to get the applied engineering for the generator done on schedule.
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Old 9th January 2017, 06:24 PM   #137
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Mr Suede, how much money have YOU put into this fabulous offer, pray tell??
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Old 9th January 2017, 06:25 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Yeah, we shall see how this plays out.

My worry isn't with Mills, it's with Columbia Tech's ability to get the applied engineering for the generator done on schedule.


And that's just completely ass-backwards. Seriously. I've linked to a patent application from one of the guys developing the "not breaking the laws of physics" parts of the system, and he's pretty on the ball. I could have linked to several other such patents. There's one company alone that has dozens of patents on such TPV cells. There's no credible doubt that those bits will work.

Where this all falls down is the source of the energy that those systems will be using to produce their electricity from well known optical and photovoltaic systems. Even if they're not perfectly optimized for the given spectrum, they should still work at an acceptable level, producing an incontrovertible output of power, over any desired time period.

If you seriously think that these well known, already operational systems are the weak link in this chain, you're delusional. Even if BLP is eventually proven correct, this is still a delusional assertion.
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Old 9th January 2017, 06:59 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
And that's just completely ass-backwards. Seriously. I've linked to a patent application from one of the guys developing the "not breaking the laws of physics" parts of the system, and he's pretty on the ball. I could have linked to several other such patents. There's one company alone that has dozens of patents on such TPV cells. There's no credible doubt that those bits will work.



Where this all falls down is the source of the energy that those systems will be using to produce their electricity from well known optical and photovoltaic systems. Even if they're not perfectly optimized for the given spectrum, they should still work at an acceptable level, producing an incontrovertible output of power, over any desired time period.



If you seriously think that these well known, already operational systems are the weak link in this chain, you're delusional. Even if BLP is eventually proven correct, this is still a delusional assertion.


It's all about scapegoating. When the product fails to make it to market in a functional state you need a disposable and replaceable scapegoat to throw under the bus so you can keep revising the overall con.

It's like fad diets. As long as you can convince your marks the flaw is with their willpower and not with the diet you can get repeat suckers who come back again and again.
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Old 9th January 2017, 07:01 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Yeah, we shall see how this plays out.

My worry isn't with Mills, it's with Columbia Tech's ability to get the applied engineering for the generator done on schedule.
That's one potential excuse.

Of course, this gimcrack is supposed to create such massive amounts of power that there is no reason at all it can't be demonstrated with as a steam engine and garner a Nobel Prize for its inventor. A PV or TPV cell is irrelevant to the claimed principle, to the thing that is supposed to put the "free" in "(nearly) free energy".

But there will always be an excuse why this thing won't ever be put into commercial use; the real reason, however, is that the physical principle claimed is bogus. It's not the first time that there have been reports "confirming" the free energy devices work, all the way up until it's time to connect the input to the output and let it power itself steady-state in the real world.

I suggest that the ideal application for this generator is to power a Nassikas "thruster". Both have their enthusiastic proponents here, and both are fiction.

Last edited by sts60; 9th January 2017 at 07:03 PM. Reason: Added to 3rd para missing words
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Old 9th January 2017, 07:04 PM   #141
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Well, horatius and halleyscomet both said it already.
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Old 9th January 2017, 07:17 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Since the ground state is simply defined, there's no reason in theory it could not be lower.
Yes, there is. It's not compatible with quantum mechanics as vetted for over a century. It's not supported by reliable experimental evidence. Its proposed mechanism is handwaving, and you can't provide a coherent account of how it's supposed to work.

You tried to back up this assertion with appeals (since Rule 11'd) to "redefining" the speed of light and "wildly varying" (or similar words) the gravitational constant, but in those cases as well you demonstrated you didn't know what you were talking about. Yet you keep lecturing other people about their supposed "belief", even though you have swallowed this scam hook, line, and sinker.
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Old 9th January 2017, 07:31 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
It's all about scapegoating. When the product fails to make it to market in a functional state you need a disposable and replaceable scapegoat to throw under the bus so you can keep revising the overall con.

It's like fad diets. As long as you can convince your marks the flaw is with their willpower and not with the diet you can get repeat suckers who come back again and again.


I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I have no doubt that the purveyors of fad diets and free energy devices know they're a scam, but I hold out hope that their marks are at least honest, albeit deceived.

But coming up with such a BS rationalization to justify an obvious failure of the system BLP is claiming to have? That goes beyond being deceived, into outright delusion. Even with the most ********iest of fad diets, there are at least some people who lose weight, giving the people who didn't succeed an at least plausible explanation for their failure. But this? It's just totally insane.
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Old 9th January 2017, 08:39 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
There's so much power being produced by the reaction that even if they just got a 5% conversion rate, that still means they are producing 50 kw.
And creating nearly a megawatt of waste heat. Why even bother with solar cells? We know how to collect energy from a heat source like that with much greater efficiency than solar.
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Old 9th January 2017, 08:42 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Yes, there is. It's not compatible with quantum mechanics as vetted for over a century.
That's obviously not a valid reason, given that since Mills has demonstrated hydrogen can indeed to go a lower ground state, ipso facto, QM is wrong.

He's already demonstrated this. The only problem is that you will not believe it until you have a generator parked in your driveway powering your home. Even then, you probably still won't believe it.
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Old 9th January 2017, 08:49 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
He's already demonstrated this. The only problem is that you will not believe it until you have a generator parked in your driveway powering your home. Even then, you probably still won't believe it.


So, if, 18 months from now you don't have "a generator parked in your driveway powering your home" (or at least the industrial equivalent thereof), will you be willing to admit that Mills has not actually "already demonstrated this"?
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Old 9th January 2017, 09:00 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
And creating nearly a megawatt of waste heat. Why even bother with solar cells? We know how to collect energy from a heat source like that with much greater efficiency than solar.
smh

Let's do some theory crafting here.

Mills has estimated that when they are ramped up to mega production levels, the cost of the PV will fall so much that he estimates the total cost to produce one generator will be about $600 bucks.

So let's say 150 kw for $600 bucks.

$600 for a 150 kw generator with no moving parts, that will run 20 years continuously virtually maintenance free, is portable enough to fit in a small vehicle, does away with the power grid, and completely by-passes all of the power plant regulations that would come from a fixed grid tied conventional power plant.

Let's contrast that with a steam powered fixed power plant. According to Synapse, the cost to build a steam power plant is $3,500 per kW. A typical coal plant produces 500 megawatts. So that's $1,750,000,000 in capital to build a new coal driven steam power plant.

The capital costs aren't going to change much no matter if you use coal to power the plant or BrLP's reactor. Sure you save in fuel costs, but the plant itself is still ridiculously expensive. Then you have to deal with all the regulations, taxes, grid maintenance, its not portable, the turbines break down, there's a million moving parts that can break down, sub-stations need to be built, transformers need to be mounted, etc.. etc.. etc..

Even if Mills is dumping an entire megawatt of power for each generator he produces, the capital costs of production are so low that it still beats steam power by a factor of 875.

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Old 9th January 2017, 09:04 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
So, if, 18 months from now you don't have "a generator parked in your driveway powering your home" (or at least the industrial equivalent thereof), will you be willing to admit that Mills has not actually "already demonstrated this"?
Sure.
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Old 9th January 2017, 09:04 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Even if Mills is dumping an entire megawatt of power for each generator he produces, the capital costs of production are so low that it still beats steam power by a factor of 5.


...and global warming gets a kick in the pants.
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Old 9th January 2017, 09:05 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Sure.
Noted.
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Old 9th January 2017, 09:09 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
...and global warming gets a kick in the pants.
Actually I wrote that wrong. It's 875, not 5, if you look at the costs on a per kilowatt basis. - and that's just the capital costs for the original equipment.

I can't even imagine what the actual cost savings is, given that there's no fuel and virtually no maintenance costs associated with the BrLP generator. I mean we have to be talking thousands of times cheaper when its all tallied up.

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Old 9th January 2017, 09:18 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Actually I wrote that wrong. It's 875, not 5, if you look at the costs on a per kilowatt basis. - and that's just the capital costs for the original equipment.

I can't even imagine what the actual cost savings is, given that there's no fuel and virtually no maintenance costs associated with the BrLP generator. I mean we have to be talking thousands of times cheaper when its all tallied up.


Economic cost aren't the only costs that should be considered. As you say, if they waste "an entire megawatt of power for each generator", that's a huge impact on the environment. As you note, these aren't large-scale plants like current 500 MW nuclear plants, these are small systems incorporated into local businesses, and eventually homes. Picture what it would be like if even a small town of 500 homes wasted the equivalent of a nuclear power station in waste heat.
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Old 9th January 2017, 09:30 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
You say that tuned PV cells would theoretically produce a great deal more power (order of magnitude iirc).
No need to wait though. Good to know.
So this model WILL NOT suffer the cancellation fate of the previous model which, according to you, was that a newer model produced more power?

(that is a question)
Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
The new model produces orders of magnitude more power using order of magnitudes less space, and it is portable. No need for a power grid.
That doesn't answer my question.

I asked for assurance that this model will not suffer the same fate as the last, that promised increased power o/p of yet a newer model will not see this present model production cancelled.

Last edited by jaydeehess; 9th January 2017 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 9th January 2017, 10:14 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Economic cost aren't the only costs that should be considered. As you say, if they waste "an entire megawatt of power for each generator", that's a huge impact on the environment. As you note, these aren't large-scale plants like current 500 MW nuclear plants, these are small systems incorporated into local businesses, and eventually homes. Picture what it would be like if even a small town of 500 homes wasted the equivalent of a nuclear power station in waste heat.
Oh please, let's blame the sun for dumping 1367 watts per square meter while we are at it.

The sun is causing global warming!

Multi-family apartments will not need a unit per household, and I doubt they will be dumping a whole megawatt per unit. Air is a pretty effective insulator. There's no environmental impact of note. Nothing for the green army to tax into oblivion.

Mills is estimating the current bulb will run at a controlled 330 kw, with 11 to 20% of that being directly converted into energy depending on the number of junctions used. This does not include reflected light, which can up the efficiency dramatically. Future cell technology will allow for even higher efficiency, which will further reduce the total heat dumped.

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Old 9th January 2017, 10:23 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
That doesn't answer my question.

I asked for assurance that this model will not suffer the same fate as the last, that promised increased power o/p of yet a newer model will not see this present model production cancelled.
Oh well, you have my assurances then.
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Old 9th January 2017, 10:32 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Let's contrast that with a steam powered fixed power plant. According to Synapse, the cost to build a steam power plant is $3,500 per kW. A typical coal plant produces 500 megawatts. So that's $1,750,000,000 in capital to build a new coal driven steam power plant.
We wouldn't need to build a new plant. Many steam turbine plants have switched fuel sources over the years. It's pretty straightforward. Heck, you could even drop this generator into a nuclear plant and use the nuclear plant's generator. Easiest swap out would probably be a natural gas generator though.
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Old 9th January 2017, 10:33 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Ok.

Don't believe me.

We'll find out who is right, just like we found out who was right about Bitcoin.
Can we arrange a bet of 1 BTC? I'd be happy to escrow with an independent/trusted forum member. I'd go along with the same terms as Horatius.
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Old 9th January 2017, 10:35 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
We wouldn't need to build a new plant. Many steam turbine plants have switched fuel sources over the years. It's pretty straightforward. Heck, you could even drop this generator into a nuclear plant and use the nuclear plant's generator. Easiest swap out would probably be a natural gas generator though.
Well I'm glad you're an expert on swapping out megawatt power plant fuel sources. You should hire yourself out to BrLP and offer your services.
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Old 9th January 2017, 10:38 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Can we arrange a bet of 1 BTC? I'd be happy to escrow with an independent/trusted forum member. I'd go along with the same terms as Horatius.
I'm not betting with any of my bitcoins. Their value could go up exponentially during that time as Venezuela continues to implode. That's my retirement fund you're talking about.
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Old 9th January 2017, 10:47 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Well I'm glad you're an expert on swapping out megawatt power plant fuel sources. You should hire yourself out to BrLP and offer your services.
No need, there is already an entire industry dedicated to such conversions as well as a large corpus of academic material.
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