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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 24th March 2017, 06:03 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Eh, the Enquirer may be in Trump's pocket, but that doesn't mean he's behind this story.
Yeah, but he might get his news from it.
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Old 24th March 2017, 06:08 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Before I go digging up opinion polls, please let me know what you're looking for. I get the feeling that I'm about to go on a snipe hunt.
Good idea.

Nice to see you back.
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Old 24th March 2017, 06:24 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Yeah, but he might get his news from it.
Might? Gotta be near top of his list.
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Old 25th March 2017, 07:20 AM   #204
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More unusual goings on from Nunes.

Quote:
Hours before the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee announced his shocking claims about surveillance of the*Trump transition team on Wednesday morning, he practically disappeared.

Rep. Devin Nunes was traveling with a senior committee staffer in an Uber on Tuesday evening when he received a communication on his phone, three committee officials and a former national security official with ties to the committee told The Daily Beast. After the message, Nunes left the car abruptly, leaving his own staffer in the dark about his whereabouts.

By the next morning, Nunes hastily announced a press conference. His own aides, up to the most senior level, did not know what their boss planned to say next. Nunes’ choice to keep senior staff out of the loop was highly unusual.
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Old 25th March 2017, 07:28 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
If the White House really was the source of the information, I would expect that to be leaked in the not-too-distant future.

One of the things that President Trump and his closest advisors seem to have failed to grasp is that an unhappy ship is a leaky ship. Their attempts to sideline senior colleagues and administrators will only make this situation worse.
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Old 25th March 2017, 01:26 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Good idea.

Nice to see you back.
Thanks. I always enjoy this forum. Glad to be back.
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Old 25th March 2017, 01:39 PM   #207
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Trump associates might have been under surveillance for a deal that has nothing to do with Russia - but something to do with Azerbaijan and Iran.

Donald Trump's worst deal

You can't tell this story in 140 characters.

ETA:
Quote:
Hours before the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee announced his shocking claims about surveillance of the Trump transition team on Wednesday morning, he practically disappeared.
Now if he actually disappeared, that would be even more interesting!

Last edited by Minoosh; 25th March 2017 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 25th March 2017, 01:48 PM   #208
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Another connection surfaces.

Quote:
Marc E. Kasowitz is representing OJSC Sberbank of Russia, which is accused in US federal court of conspiring with granite company executives — including Russia’s former minister of economy and trade — in what the plaintiffs say amounts to a “textbook case of Russian corporate raiding.”

Kasowitz has served as an attorney for Trump for more than 15 years. He did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment.

In 2001, Kasowitz’s firm represented the Trump Organization during a bond restructuring for his Atlantic City casinos. In 2006, he filed a $5 billion defamation lawsuit against the author of a book about Trump. And twice last year, Kasowitz threatened the New York Times after it published three pages of tax returns and a story about women who claim the president sexually assaulted them.

In December, Trump named another partner at Kasowitz’s firm, David Friedman, to serve as the ambassador to Israel. In a contentious vote earlier this month, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee approved the nomination, which now awaits a full vote in the Senate
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Old 25th March 2017, 06:26 PM   #209
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So Maria Zakharova, Director of the Information and Press Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, gave as presser and uh...

Quote:
As I said, such cases in our relations with the US Department of State have become a bad tradition over the past few years. So, I can say in response to your question that we will make the date and format of contacts between the Russian and US foreign ministers public after we coordinate them. We won’t keep them quiet. At this point, I don’t have any information I can share with you. I can say that this visit and such contacts are possible in principle, but it would be premature to talk about timeframes.

Also, I would like to say that if the practice of leaking information that concerns not just the United States but also Russia, which has become a tradition in Washington in the past few years, continues, there will come a day when the media will publish leaks about the things that Washington asked us to keep secret, for example, things that happened during President Obama’s terms in office. Believe me, this could be very interesting information.

Our American colleagues must decide if they respect the diplomatic procedure, if they keep their word on the arrangements made between us, primarily arrangements made at their own request, or we create a few very nice surprises for each other.
That's a curious threat.
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Old 26th March 2017, 05:43 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Yeah, threatening a party who has been openly hostile to Obama with the threat of going public about something bad about Obama? That sounds like enticement, not a threat!
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Old 26th March 2017, 05:46 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Yeah, threatening a party who has been openly hostile to Obama with the threat of going public about something bad about Obama? That sounds like enticement, not a threat!
Equal chance it's BS.
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Old 26th March 2017, 05:49 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Equal chance it's BS.
True, but it does have the effect of making it look like Obama was making secret deals with them, whether or not they go public with anything. It sure is not going to make the folks leaking information (who I assume are mostly/all Republicans) suddenly clam up about anything, though.
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Old 27th March 2017, 08:14 PM   #213
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Oops he did it again...

Originally Posted by @realDonaldTrump
Why isn't the House Intelligence Committee looking into the Bill & Hillary deal that allowed big Uranium to go to Russia, Russian speech.... ...money to Bill, the Hillary Russian "reset," praise of Russia by Hillary, or Podesta Russian Company. Trump Russia story is a hoax. #MAGA!



That man is a Tru Playa!
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Old 27th March 2017, 10:26 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Oops he did it again...
He must think Americans are stupid, and to that I say, "well played."
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Old 28th March 2017, 02:16 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Oops he did it again...

That man is a Tru Playa!
I think the word you were looking for was "cheater".
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Old 28th March 2017, 03:50 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Eh, the Enquirer may be in Trump's pocket, but that doesn't mean he's behind this story.

He could have gotten the British to plant the story for him.
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Old 28th March 2017, 04:01 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
More unusual goings on from Nunes.

Quote:
Hours before the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee announced his shocking claims about surveillance of the*Trump transition team on Wednesday morning, he practically disappeared.

Rep. Devin Nunes was traveling with a senior committee staffer in an Uber on Tuesday evening when he received a communication on his phone, three committee officials and a former national security official with ties to the committee told The Daily Beast. After the message, Nunes left the car abruptly, leaving his own staffer in the dark about his whereabouts.

By the next morning, Nunes hastily announced a press conference. His own aides, up to the most senior level, did not know what their boss planned to say next. Nunes’ choice to keep senior staff out of the loop was highly unusual.

Am I the only one that finds it just a tad odd that a senior Congressman was cruising DC in an Uber in the first place, much less suddenly jumping out of it and abandoning his staffer without explanation after a mysterious phone call?

Combine this with the guy briefing the President and the press on vague allegations without ever even sharing his info with the committee in charge of investigating exactly those claims.

It's almost like he's decompensating. Starting to have a panic breakdown.

I'm a bit worried for him.
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Old 28th March 2017, 05:24 AM   #218
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I feel embarrassed for the people over at Democratic underground. They are posting so many theories and speculative chain of events it is starting to feel like a fan fiction forum. There is responsible examination of events, and then there is pure speculation.
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Old 28th March 2017, 07:15 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I feel embarrassed for the people over at Democratic underground. They are posting so many theories and speculative chain of events it is starting to feel like a fan fiction forum. There is responsible examination of events, and then there is pure speculation.
Yes.

It is not only embarrassing, it may be counterproductive.

An op-ed in the NYT dated march/25th: Don’t Fight Their Lies With Lies of Your Own

Quote:
To be sure, the 2016 election was unimaginable, and the particulars of Russian meddling deserve further scrutiny. But we seem to have fallen into a trap: The unimaginable, happening out in the open day after day, not only continues to dull our defenses but also creates a need to see a conspiracy big enough, a secret terrible enough to explain how this can be happening to our country.
...
Out in the open is Mr. Trump’s contempt for the news media. The secret, it is said, is that the president is always hiding something, using Twitter to distract us from whatever the truly important issue is — as though, if we could only regain our focus long enough to locate that important issue, reality would feel solid again. In fact, Mr. Trump is waging an open and public war on journalism. His lies, his insults and his use of Twitter to communicate falsehoods are the truly important issue: They are the force destroying the public sphere.

The bad news is that Mr. Trump is succeeding. Fraudulent news stories, which used to be largely a right-wing phenomenon, are becoming increasingly popular among those who oppose the president. (I prefer not to add to the appeal of such stories by citing them, but an example is the string of widely shared items that purported to link every death of a more-or-less prominent Russian man to Russian interference in the election.) Each story dangles the promise of a secret that can explain the unimaginable. Each story comes with the ready justification that desperate times call for outrageous claims. But each story deals yet another blow to our fact-based reality, destroying the very fabric of politics that Mr. Trump so clearly disdains.
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Old 28th March 2017, 07:56 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I feel embarrassed for the people over at Democratic underground. They are posting so many theories and speculative chain of events it is starting to feel like a fan fiction forum. There is responsible examination of events, and then there is pure speculation.
Yes. Perhaps it is indeed best for Nunes to step down and allow due diligence to proceed. Cover-ups and silence in the face of probable cause leads to a dangerous vacuum. When is the next public hearing in the Senate, and what is on the agenda? Will the questions be softball or hardball? Will they focus on those who blow whistles, or those who blow up the system? This is the issue for those concerned about fact.
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Old 28th March 2017, 08:02 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Yes.

It is not only embarrassing, it may be counterproductive.

An op-ed in the NYT dated march/25th: Don’t Fight Their Lies With Lies of Your Own
I'm highly unimpressed by the writer's failure to cite examples.
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Old 28th March 2017, 08:05 AM   #222
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I notice this morning Nunes keeps answering, 'go see what I already said'. Trying not to trip up? When you are making a story up it's hard to keep the details straight.
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Old 28th March 2017, 08:17 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
If the White House really was the source of the information, I would expect that to be leaked in the not-too-distant future.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

The current story is that the still-unknown source was on the White House grounds, but not in the White House, so he didn't lie earlier by saying he didn't go to the White House.
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Old 28th March 2017, 08:24 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I notice this morning Nunes keeps answering, 'go see what I already said'. Trying not to trip up? When you are making a story up it's hard to keep the details straight.
"I answered your question. I'm cooperating here."

Now he just needs to add, "You darn tootin'"

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Old 28th March 2017, 12:09 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

The current story is that the still-unknown source was on the White House grounds, but not in the White House, so he didn't lie earlier by saying he didn't go to the White House.

I'm not sure I understand this part;
Quote:
Nunes defended himself later Monday, telling CNN's "The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer" that he had to view the classified documents in an Executive Branch location because the intelligence community had not yet provided them to Congress.

Why isn't giving it to a Congressman (who just coincidentally, I guess, happens to be the chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence) giving it to Congress?

And if it wasn't okay to share it with Congress, why was it okay to share it with reporters?
Quote:


"The Congress has not been given this information, these documents, and that's the problem," Nunes said. "This is Executive Branch."
Is he telling us here that he really works for the Executive Branch? Is he saying he's a Trump lackey first and a Congressman second?

This must be an "alternative" Separation of Powers.
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Old 29th March 2017, 02:42 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I'm not sure I understand this part;



Why isn't giving it to a Congressman (who just coincidentally, I guess, happens to be the chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence) giving it to Congress?

And if it wasn't okay to share it with Congress, why was it okay to share it with reporters?Is he telling us here that he really works for the Executive Branch? Is he saying he's a Trump lackey first and a Congressman second?

This must be an "alternative" Separation of Powers.
Yes. Yes. And yes it is.

Nunes is not acting at all like a Congressman and certainly not like a Congressman heading an independent committee. He is acting like a Republican toadying up to the head of his party, and he sees that role as more important than being a Congressman.
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Old 29th March 2017, 03:14 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
Yes. Yes. And yes it is.

Nunes is not acting at all like a Congressman and certainly not like a Congressman heading an independent committee. He is acting like a Republican toadying up to the head of his party, and he sees that role as more important than being a Congressman.
I can see how that's a problem in an abstract sense but in the context of today' highly partisan political environment, isn't he doing exactly what the vast majority of GOP representatives, voters and supporters would want him to do ? Protecting the interests of the Republican president and the GOP in general.

There is no independent any more, you're either pro-Trump or you're the enemy
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Old 29th March 2017, 04:46 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I can see how that's a problem in an abstract sense but in the context of today' highly partisan political environment, isn't he doing exactly what the vast majority of GOP representatives, voters and supporters would want him to do ? Protecting the interests of the Republican president and the GOP in general.
Yes, but the blatant nature of it is astounding, and I have (perhaps naively) been of the opinion that while the GOP acts in a highly partisan fashion the majority of its members are at root cognizant and respectful of their roles and responsibilities as Congresspersons.

And to be fair, while they are perhaps not so blatant, the Dems are not immune to this type of behavior.


Originally Posted by The Don
There is no independent any more, you're either pro-Trump or you're the enemy
True, but only for a somewhat diminished pro-Trump camp. Though perhaps I am still being naive.
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Old 29th March 2017, 05:26 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
Yes. Yes. And yes it is.

Nunes is not acting at all like a Congressman and certainly not like a Congressman heading an independent committee. He is acting like a Republican toadying up to the head of his party, and he sees that role as more important than being a Congressman.
Trump is not head of the party; chairwoman is Ronna Romney McDaniel, Mitt Romney's niece. Obviously this title does not mean much; Speaker Ryan, Senate leader McConnell, and House leader McCarthy seem to be more important and powerful, although they do not seem to hold explicit party titles as I understand them from a European perspective.
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Old 29th March 2017, 05:29 AM   #230
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I don't understand why it would be a big deal if Trump associates had been picked up as part of routine surveillance of foreign dignitaries. I mean, I get why it would look very bad for Trump if that was the case, but I don't understand how it would in any way benefit Trump or lend credibility to his statement about Obama if that was the case.

Anyone wanna fill me in?
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Old 29th March 2017, 05:40 AM   #231
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Unless I've missed something, Nunes still hasn't shared the intelligence that he got with the rest of the committee. If I had to guess, I'd say that means the Trump team member whose communications were intercepted is Nunez himself and he is in panic mode.
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Old 29th March 2017, 05:58 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I don't understand why it would be a big deal if Trump associates had been picked up as part of routine surveillance of foreign dignitaries. I mean, I get why it would look very bad for Trump if that was the case, but I don't understand how it would in any way benefit Trump or lend credibility to his statement about Obama if that was the case.

Anyone wanna fill me in?
I think it's just an attempt to "get in front of" the news before it breaks. If the GOP could work themselves into a proper slavering rage over the fact that Trump was incidentally surveilled, it might help diminish the impact of the actual content if and when Nunes can't stall its release any more.

Which, considering what has been leaked so far without this level of misdirection, I'm hoping it's a doozy.
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Old 29th March 2017, 06:02 AM   #233
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Isn't the Russian thing dead in the water now? Nunez isn't going anywhere, Ryan is making sure of that.

So now the Trump surrogate is in charge of the committee, and he's cancelling testimony left and right.

This thing is finished.
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Old 29th March 2017, 06:19 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Isn't the Russian thing dead in the water now? Nunez isn't going anywhere, Ryan is making sure of that.

So now the Trump surrogate is in charge of the committee, and he's cancelling testimony left and right.

This thing is finished.
Keep pushing and eventually it'll all come out. Trump makes enough enemies on a daily basis that there will always be leaks.
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Old 29th March 2017, 06:21 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Isn't the Russian thing dead in the water now? Nunez isn't going anywhere, Ryan is making sure of that.

So now the Trump surrogate is in charge of the committee, and he's cancelling testimony left and right.

This thing is finished.
Goodness, no. We're just getting started. This is now an active coverup, and those words have lasting media power. Recall that it wasn't Watergate itself that ruined Nixon, it was the active coverup in the wake of it.
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Old 29th March 2017, 08:58 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Goodness, no. We're just getting started. This is now an active coverup, and those words have lasting media power. Recall that it wasn't Watergate itself that ruined Nixon, it was the active coverup in the wake of it.
In this case, as in Watergate, it should be both the initial crimes and the coverups. But I agree the coverups lend themselves better to soap opera style mass appeal.
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Old 29th March 2017, 09:07 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I don't understand why it would be a big deal if Trump associates had been picked up as part of routine surveillance of foreign dignitaries. I mean, I get why it would look very bad for Trump if that was the case, but I don't understand how it would in any way benefit Trump or lend credibility to his statement about Obama if that was the case.

Anyone wanna fill me in?
In this short post you have put more thought to this issue than most Trump supporters ever will. If you ask them at a campaign rally next week they will say: Trump was right and Nunes proved it.
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Old 29th March 2017, 09:16 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I don't understand why it would be a big deal if Trump associates had been picked up as part of routine surveillance of foreign dignitaries. I mean, I get why it would look very bad for Trump if that was the case, but I don't understand how it would in any way benefit Trump or lend credibility to his statement about Obama if that was the case.

Anyone wanna fill me in?
When in doubt, obfuscate, wave arms, blame others. FUD on steroids. It's not as if the sycophants -- aka most of the GOP -- require solid reasoning.
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Old 29th March 2017, 12:05 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by jond View Post
Unless I've missed something, Nunes still hasn't shared the intelligence that he got with the rest of the committee. If I had to guess, I'd say that means the Trump team member whose communications were intercepted is Nunez himself and he is in panic mode.
More likely scenario: Trump (or his staff) called Nunes to the WH and told him to cancel the public hearings, which he did.

The rest is a bad cover story that went awry, maybe Trump wasn't happy with just stopping the committee hearings and also wanted Nunes to throw some 'Trump was right about Obama spying on him' cover out there as well.
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Old 29th March 2017, 12:10 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Isn't the Russian thing dead in the water now? Nunez isn't going anywhere, Ryan is making sure of that.

So now the Trump surrogate is in charge of the committee, and he's cancelling testimony left and right.

This thing is finished.
Never fear, the Senate is assuming the mantle. Their GOP committee head worked on Trump's transition team and admits voting for Trump. But he has his act together better claiming to want an honest investigation. Time will tell on that.

In the meantime, they are starting open public hearings tomorrow.

They also noted one thing they want to investigate is (paraphrasing) "Russia had 1,000 paid people sitting at computers putting out bots that inserted news stories into social media."
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