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Tags anarchism , antifa , bomb incidents , Conspiracy Cells of Fire , terrorism incidents

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Old 19th March 2017, 12:56 PM   #1
Mycroft
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Score one for the Anarchists

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-fr...-idUSKBN16N1DZ

"A female employee of the International Monetary Fund suffered injuries to her face and arms on Thursday when a letter bomb mailed from Greece and addressed to the world lender's European representative blew up as she opened it, officials said.

The letter, which had arrived by mail, exploded as it was opened by a secretary at the institution's office in an upscale part of Paris.

The secretary, whose hearing was also affected, was receiving treatment but her injuries were not life-threatening, Paris police chief Michel Cadot told reporters. The blast caused little damage to the office."


That secretary, who was clearly a fascist and had it coming, will not soon forget her punishment meted out by the brave antifa forces!


/sarcasm
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Old 19th March 2017, 08:15 PM   #2
marplots
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Lesson learned. Don't open other people's mail.
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Old 19th March 2017, 09:46 PM   #3
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The article says that no one has claimed responsibility for the attack, and that:

Quote:
France, which is in the middle of a campaign for presidential elections in six weeks time, has been hit by attacks by Islamist groups in the last few years that have killed scores of people and the country is still in a state of emergency with army units patrolling the streets of Paris.
How do you attribute this to specifically anarchists as opposed to Islamic or other terrorist groups?
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Old 20th March 2017, 12:27 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
How do you attribute this to specifically anarchists as opposed to Islamic or other terrorist groups?
Good question. I may have cited the wrong article.

The Greek group that claimed responsibility for the German bombing, Conspiracy Cells of Fire, claimed in an online posting Thursday on a Greek left-wing website that the attack was part of a concerted campaign by international anarchist groups.

https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.g...uring-46167493

"Conspiracy Cells of Fire " is the anarchist group who claimed responsibility. I assume their name sounds better in it's native Greek.

Another source:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.teleg...is-office/amp/
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Old 20th March 2017, 03:39 AM   #5
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Lesson. Get mail opened by people who are disabled. These people must be isolated from each other and the rest of the staff.

Must not have highly paid staff injured by letter bombs.
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Old 20th March 2017, 06:22 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Good question. I may have cited the wrong article.

The Greek group that claimed responsibility for the German bombing, Conspiracy Cells of Fire, claimed in an online posting Thursday on a Greek left-wing website that the attack was part of a concerted campaign by international anarchist groups.
Yeah, CCof F quickly claimed responsibility for the German parcel, but has been quiet on the Paris letter which happened the day after. The article cited mentioned the Grecian return address and the recipient was with the IMF, so it is plausible that the sender was another group who was terroristicly reacting to the IMF's austerity measures in Greece.

Quote:
"Conspiracy Cells of Fire " is the anarchist group who claimed responsibility. I assume their name sounds better in it's native Greek.
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Old 20th March 2017, 06:26 AM   #7
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The only Greek C-thing of Fire that I know is this one:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 23rd March 2017, 04:36 PM   #8
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Yawn.

So it's 1 point for an injury. How many points for a kill - let's say 10?

That would make the scores:
Anarchists: 1
IMF: >1 000 000

Like I said: yawn. Let us know when the anarchists even come close to the IMF's score.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 05:21 PM   #9
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"Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos

How's your boy doing these days, caveman?
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Old 23rd March 2017, 06:18 PM   #10
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These particular Anarchists seem like a bunch of losers. Hurting a poor wage-slave secretary does not score points in the arena of public sentiment.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 10:49 PM   #11
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
"Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos

How's your boy doing these days, caveman?
My boy?
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Old 23rd March 2017, 11:22 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
These particular Anarchists seem like a bunch of losers. Hurting a poor wage-slave secretary does not score points in the arena of public sentiment.
I'm sure they care a lot about public sentiment. But if your standard is public sentiment then maybe the Front National or something might be more appropriate, racism and fascism do it really well with public sentiment these days. Heck, some dude in America even got elected president on it.
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Old 24th March 2017, 05:01 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Yawn.

So it's 1 point for an injury. How many points for a kill - let's say 10?

That would make the scores:
Anarchists: 1
IMF: >1 000 000

Like I said: yawn. Let us know when the anarchists even come close to the IMF's score.
She had it coming?

Maybe promoting this book and evidence based decision making is a better idea than injuring some random person who had the misfortune of being the one to open the mail that morning would be a better idea?

What would be more productive? Resolving conflicting academic points of view with books, peer reviewed papers and studies of real world examples? Or by sending letters bombs to institutions that follow policies you disagree with?
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Old 24th March 2017, 11:48 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Maybe promoting this book and evidence based decision making is a better idea
Then feel free to do so. It would be a much better idea than your boring crusade against anarchists.

Quote:
What would be more productive?
Well, if you're taking your own advice about promoting evidence based decision making then you know how to figure out what is more productive.
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Old 24th March 2017, 12:37 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
These particular All Anarchists seem like a bunch of losers.
FTFY.
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Old 24th March 2017, 01:03 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Then feel free to do so.
I haven't reviewed the evidence and so have no opinion myself. Also, not my crusade.

But for those who are convinced I propose that educating people is a better idea than hurting them.

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
It would be a much better idea than your boring crusade against anarchists.
It's boring, yet of all that's out there on the Internet, it's what draws your attention.
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Old 25th March 2017, 09:49 AM   #17
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I haven't reviewed the evidence and so have no opinion myself. Also, not my crusade.
If you haven't reviewed the evidence, then how are you supposed to make decisions based on it? Is there something in "evidence-based decision making" that I'm missing here?

Also, if your goal was actually doing this IMF vs Anarchists point-scoring thing then you'd be opening multiple threads per day announcing the IMF scoring points. Yet you do not appear to be doing so, and you're not off by a little (say doing a daily aggregate thread for the IMF's scoring).

So yeah, crusade will do just fine.

Quote:
But for those who are convinced I propose that educating people is a better idea than hurting them.
Yet in this thread you were educated about evidence-based decision making (ie you first need to review the evidence before you can make decisions based on it), the two hence don't seem mutually exclusionary.

But in general I agree, it would be a much better idea for the IMF to enforce free and qualitative public education for people rather than hurting them.

Quote:
It's boring, yet of all that's out there on the Internet, it's what draws your attention.
Ideological crusades are always boring.
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"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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Old 25th March 2017, 10:56 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
If you haven't reviewed the evidence, then how are you supposed to make decisions based on it?
When did it become my decision? The IMF is the decision maker here.

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Is there something in "evidence-based decision making" that I'm missing here?
Yes, there is lots about evidence-based decision making that you're missing, but I'm trying to nudge you in the right direction. Baby steps.

For example, the IMF follows policies you don't agree with, and you have evidence that a different policy would be more beneficial. How best to get them to consider your evidence and change their minds? Is it:

1) Injure some random person who works in their building, who is unlikely to have anything to do with setting policy and who's injury is likely to prejudice the policy-makers against your views.

2) Do something to draw the attention of the IMF to this evidence of yours that they're not considering. This could include actions such as holding a peaceful demonstrations in front of their building with large signs saying things like, "Your policies are killing people, please read this book and consider different policies", pooling your money to hire a lobbyist to talk to them directly, forming a political action committee, or other possibilities.

My opinion is that option 1 is counter-productive and you would get better results from option 2. Also, it would be less anti-social and you anarchists would become more likely to form romantic relationships with women people of the gender of their preference.

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Also, if your goal was actually doing this IMF vs Anarchists point-scoring thing...
That is not my goal.

I could point to the cues that should let anyone know that wasn't my goal, but I think you already knew that so instead I will encourage you to remove your head from your rectal cavity, figuratively speaking.

Recognizing it is possible you may have actually thought my goal was IMF vs Anarchist point scoring, and recognizing that I've often observed people who hold radical political views such as yours are often also people who fit somewhere along the spectrum, if you really and truly did not understand, I will explain it to you without snark and without trying to embarrass you.

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Ideological crusades are always boring.
Oh the irony of that statement is beautiful, but I don't think you did that on purpose. Did you?

Last edited by Mycroft; 25th March 2017 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 25th March 2017, 01:03 PM   #19
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
That is not my goal.

I could point to the cues that should let anyone know that wasn't my goal, but I think you already knew that so instead I will encourage you to remove your head from your rectal cavity, figuratively speaking.
Of course it's not your goal. If it were, and you'd provide an objective account of the relative activities and policies of the IMF and anarchists according to some scoring system, then it could be interesting and wouldn't be so boring. But that would of course not get the result that your goal requires.
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Old 25th March 2017, 05:26 PM   #20
Mycroft
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Of course it's not your goal. If it were, and you'd provide an objective account of the relative activities and policies of the IMF and anarchists according to some scoring system, then it could be interesting and wouldn't be so boring. But that would of course not get the result that your goal requires.
Lol!

When you pick the least important issue and ignore the rest, everyone knows it's because you don't have an answer for the more substantial points. Everyone, including you.

How does that feel?
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Old 25th March 2017, 05:26 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post

"Conspiracy Cells of Fire " is the anarchist group who claimed responsibility. I assume their name sounds better in it's native Greek.
"Synomosía ton Pyrínon tis Fotiás"

I think we can consider your assumption disproven.
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Old 25th March 2017, 05:39 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Lol!

When you pick the least important issue and ignore the rest, everyone knows it's because you don't have an answer for the more substantial points. Everyone, including you.

How does that feel?
When I pick one issue and ignore the rest, everyone knows it's because the rest is so void of substance as to not be worth the bother responding to. Everyone, except you.

How does that feel?
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"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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Old 25th March 2017, 05:44 PM   #23
marplots
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
When I pick one issue and ignore the rest, everyone knows it's because the rest is so void of substance as to not be worth the bother responding to. Everyone, except you.

How does that feel?
It feels like when you are a kid and you come home from school and your mom tells you your dog was killed by a car and you cry because you hate life but then it turns out your mom was mistaken and your dog is really alive and happy to see you and you think life is wonderful again except maybe your mom shouldn't drink so much during the day. Like that. That's how it feels.
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Old 25th March 2017, 09:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
When did it become my decision? The IMF is the decision maker here.

Yes, there is lots about evidence-based decision making that you're missing, but I'm trying to nudge you in the right direction. Baby steps.

For example, the IMF follows policies you don't agree with, and you have evidence that a different policy would be more beneficial. How best to get them to consider your evidence and change their minds? Is it:

1) Injure some random person who works in their building, who is unlikely to have anything to do with setting policy and who's injury is likely to prejudice the policy-makers against your views.

2) Do something to draw the attention of the IMF to this evidence of yours that they're not considering. This could include actions such as holding a peaceful demonstrations in front of their building with large signs saying things like, "Your policies are killing people, please read this book and consider different policies", pooling your money to hire a lobbyist to talk to them directly, forming a political action committee, or other possibilities.

My opinion is that option 1 is counter-productive and you would get better results from option 2. Also, it would be less anti-social and you anarchists would become more likely to form romantic relationships with women people of the gender of their preference.



That is not my goal.

I could point to the cues that should let anyone know that wasn't my goal, but I think you already knew that so instead I will encourage you to remove your head from your rectal cavity, figuratively speaking.

Recognizing it is possible you may have actually thought my goal was IMF vs Anarchist point scoring, and recognizing that I've often observed people who hold radical political views such as yours are often also people who fit somewhere along the spectrum, if you really and truly did not understand, I will explain it to you without snark and without trying to embarrass you.

Oh the irony of that statement is beautiful, but I don't think you did that on purpose. Did you?
Utter baloney. First and Foremost, the IMF is a tool of Empire. Don't ever forget it.

You don't reason with the IMF.

The job of the IMF and World Bank is to drive countries into debt by making "sweetheart deals" with the people who run those basterds' banking systems. Once this is done, the target country is helpless and the IMF and World Bank can request that they "Nationailize" state assets (a big plus for a lot of western banks) and even vote in ways complementary the US in the United Nations.

The IMF and the World Bank aren't just Banks - they are Money that has weaponized.
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Old 26th March 2017, 08:56 AM   #25
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
Utter baloney.
True, and on more levels than just being wrong:

- Mycroft asserts that claim merely as his "opinion" even when, just a single post before, he was educated on the aspect of evidence-based decision making which requires one to first review the evidence and then make a decision based on it. I sure ain't seeing any evidence referenced to base his latest opinion on.

- As usual, he presents his opinion as deriving from some sort of general principle (the bolded "peaceful") but when we take a closer look we invariably find these high principles to be applied so inconsistently as to be merely a tool for whatever crusade he is on at the time. After all, some CCF affiliated people in Greece got arrested by the police, through the use of violence, so shouldn't the cops have rather stood outside their homes with signs saying "your policies are hurting people, please read this", hired someone to go talk to them directly, formed a committee, or other possibilities? Yet you never see Mycroft whine about that.

All in all, people get injured all the time, so the mere fact that someone got injured is hardly enough to make it interesting. When considered in context of the larger IMF vs opponents conflict it is also, given the scale and indiscriminate nature of the IMF's part of it, completely expected that at some point someone from the IMF might get injured so this also doesn't make it interesting.

Of course one can always make something appear interesting (ie anomalous/unexpected) by cherry-picking the data, in this case only scoring the anarchists and not the IMF. But then, by that reasoning I can make a thread with an interesting claim about the Earth being flat and only point to the 100 meter circle surrounding me, and when people say "what about satellites?" or "what about planes?" I can just accuse them of whataboutism
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"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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Old 26th March 2017, 09:05 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Good question. I may have cited the wrong article.

The Greek group that claimed responsibility for the German bombing, Conspiracy Cells of Fire, claimed in an online posting Thursday on a Greek left-wing website that the attack was part of a concerted campaign by international anarchist groups.

https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.g...uring-46167493

"Conspiracy Cells of Fire " is the anarchist group who claimed responsibility. I assume their name sounds better in it's native Greek.

Another source:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.teleg...is-office/amp/
I assume it is the Greek version of "feces devouring slime slugs" or such as that is certainly their biological inclination!!
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Old 26th March 2017, 12:35 PM   #27
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When was the last time a letter bomb actually killed (or even injured) its intended target?

It's really no different from Hamas firing a mortar shell into Tel Aviv expecting it will hit Netanyahu.
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Old 26th March 2017, 01:18 PM   #28
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
It's really no different from Hamas firing a mortar shell into Tel Aviv expecting it will hit Netanyahu.
More like Hamas firing a mortar shell into Netanyahu's office expecting it will hit Netanyahu but actually hitting his secretary instead.
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"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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Old 26th March 2017, 01:43 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
More like Hamas firing a mortar shell into Netanyahu's office expecting it will hit Netanyahu but actually hitting his secretary instead.
Which you would still be fine with.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
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Old 26th March 2017, 03:47 PM   #30
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Which you would still be fine with.
And?
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Old 26th March 2017, 04:12 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Which you would still be fine with.
I admit it would make me happy if it flew up an Isis leader's butt and exploded - after some of his butt boys came in to extract it!!!!!
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Old 26th March 2017, 06:48 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
And?
And you have no moral standing, since you applaud the death of innocent civilians.
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Old 26th March 2017, 08:06 PM   #33
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And you have no moral standing, since you applaud the death of innocent civilians.
The death of which innocent civilians, exactly, have I applauded?
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Old 26th March 2017, 09:17 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And you have no moral standing, since you applaud the death of innocent civilians.
You are becoming hysterical. No one said this.

Get control of yourself.
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Old 26th March 2017, 11:38 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And you have no moral standing, since you applaud the death of innocent civilians.
I will have to agree with Ziggurat here. More broadly, caveman1917 and Jules assume - as is their wont - the virtues of theoretical systems, while pointing at the real world which, of course, is a mixed bag and no paradise. This is facile, especially when done while consistently refusing to argue cases in their own words, citing dogmas in the abstract as if this were valid.

The IMF and World Bank are, indeed, instruments of power. Capitalism has given way to transnational corporativism. There is a palpable pushback and counter-revolution from the wealthy ever since the first taxes were levied... by monarchs, not just democratic governments. There are many reasons to despair and wish to toss all existing structures in the dust bin of history.

This is wrong because it ignores that real ideas, even noble ones, take centuries to become standard practice, and even then ethical relapse is always possible unless every person is brainwashed or straight-jacketed. The real world is full of piss and ****. It also has banquet tables. Organizing it in a better fashion takes ideas and patience, but is not served by dreaming that there are worlds with only banquets. That's religion.
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Old 27th March 2017, 12:56 AM   #36
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycroft

"Conspiracy Cells of Fire " is the anarchist group who claimed responsibility. I assume their name sounds better in it's native Greek.

"Synomosía ton Pyrínon tis Fotiás"
I think we can consider your assumption disproven.

Maybe it sounds better to a native Greek.
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Old 27th March 2017, 07:25 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
I will have to agree with Ziggurat here. More broadly, caveman1917 and Jules assume - as is their wont - the virtues of theoretical systems, while pointing at the real world which, of course, is a mixed bag and no paradise. This is facile, especially when done while consistently refusing to argue cases in their own words, citing dogmas in the abstract as if this were valid.
Utter nonsense and the complete opposite of reality.
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Old 27th March 2017, 09:07 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Utter nonsense and the complete opposite of reality.
Hey, caveman1917. I just figured we were due for some scrapping; it's been a while. Now that I have your gander up, why not finally tell me what - in outline form - it is you advocate? Or take on my accusation, which does have a weak point or two, that the systems you advocate are unfair to compare to "real life" because they posit only their benefits.
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Old 27th March 2017, 09:45 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Utter nonsense and the complete opposite of reality.
True. You don't even posit the virtues of your hypothetical system.
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Old 27th March 2017, 11:33 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
True, and on more levels than just being wrong:

- Mycroft asserts that claim merely as his "opinion" even when, just a single post before, he was educated on the aspect of evidence-based decision making which requires one to first review the evidence and then make a decision based on it. I sure ain't seeing any evidence referenced to base his latest opinion on.
I’m don’t know what you’re referring to here. In what way was I “educated”?

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
- As usual, he presents his opinion as deriving from some sort of general principle (the bolded "peaceful") but when we take a closer look we invariably find these high principles to be applied so inconsistently as to be merely a tool for whatever crusade he is on at the time.
Do you disagree that non-violence is preferable to violence?

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
After all, some CCF affiliated people in Greece got arrested by the police, through the use of violence, so shouldn't the cops have rather stood outside their homes with signs saying "your policies are hurting people, please read this", hired someone to go talk to them directly, formed a committee, or other possibilities? Yet you never see Mycroft whine about that.
Again the knee-jerk tu quoque argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Is it really so hard to understand that hypocrisy doesn’t invalidate a criticism? Even if one were to agree that the “violence” of police arresting criminals were comparable to the violence of hurting someone with a letter bomb, the best you would have is that both actions are wrong. That’s why it’s a fallacy.

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
All in all, people get injured all the time, so the mere fact that someone got injured is hardly enough to make it interesting.
Interesting? How about just wrong?

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
When considered in context of the larger IMF vs opponents conflict it is also, given the scale and indiscriminate nature of the IMF's part of it, completely expected that at some point someone from the IMF might get injured so this also doesn't make it interesting.
If you don’t find it “interesting”, then why are you participating in this thread?

Also, I think the real issue isn’t if it’s “interesting” or not, but if it’s moral. Or if that has no meaning to you, then consider it it’s effective.

Also, were you aware that the book you linked to says the IMF has changed it stance on Austerity vs Stimulus based on research? Which, if true, would suggest that these anarchists are both ineffective and wrong.

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Of course one can always make something appear interesting (ie anomalous/unexpected) by cherry-picking the data, in this case only scoring the anarchists and not the IMF. But then, by that reasoning I can make a thread with an interesting claim about the Earth being flat and only point to the 100 meter circle surrounding me, and when people say "what about satellites?" or "what about planes?" I can just accuse them of whataboutism
Which shows you don’t understand “whataboutism”.

Whataboutism is a tu quoque argument. Like above where you responded to criticism of anarchist violence by saying the Italian police also used violence in arresting them. Someone else using violence (if you think the police arresting criminals is violence) doesn’t make your violence okay. It’s not at all the same as ”What about this evidence that proves you wrong?”
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