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Tags Theresa May , uk elections , uk politics

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Old 18th April 2017, 03:16 AM   #1
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UK General Election

May has called for a general election, if she gets the votes it will be in June.

At the end of this year many of us will be able to reminisce about when there used to be something called "an opposition".
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Old 18th April 2017, 03:18 AM   #2
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Old 18th April 2017, 03:20 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
May has called for a general election, if she gets the votes it will be in June.

At the end of this year many of us will be able to reminisce about when there used to be something called "an opposition".
Remember all those times I said the Traitor would have to fight Brexit tooth and nail, even if defeat was inevitable and the law was going to pass anyway?

Well, that.

He outmaneuvered himself.

It would be hygienic if the election was called before the A50 was triggered though.

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Old 18th April 2017, 03:27 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
May has called for a general election, if she gets the votes it will be in June.

At the end of this year many of us will be able to reminisce about when there used to be something called "an opposition".
Interesting times indeed.
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Old 18th April 2017, 03:29 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Remember all those times I said the Traitor would have to fight Brexit tooth and nail, even if defeat was inevitable and the law was going to pass anyway?

Well, that.

He outmaneuvered himself.

It would be hygienic if the election was called before the A50 was triggered though.

McHrozni
It would have been hygienic. Horse has bolted now of course.

Which pretty much shows that May is being dishonest and cynical in her bid for an election now.
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Old 18th April 2017, 03:30 AM   #6
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Can't believe she didn't wait till 2020 to give guaranteed Tory rule till 2025. Maybe she was worried Corbyn wouldn't last as Labour leader that long?
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Old 18th April 2017, 03:30 AM   #7
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since I had a (very mild) migraine this morning I'm a bit foggy thanks to the painkiller, and also pretty hungry as I haven't been able to eat yet...and I'm struggling to form an opinion on this other than 'wtf'

Is this an attempt to finally crush labour? I can't believe it is a genuine 'this is best for the country'. and I can't even begin to predict how the voting will go (other than a pretty much guaranteed conservative win)
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Old 18th April 2017, 03:32 AM   #8
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In a brief day dream, Lib Dems won - and we didn't leave the EU
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Old 18th April 2017, 03:35 AM   #9
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Just what we need, another major democratic process to muddy the waters. I'm not incredibly sad that May (and Corbyn) will have to face an election as leader, but the political landscape feels to have enough turmoil at the minute.
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Old 18th April 2017, 03:36 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Which pretty much shows that May is being dishonest and cynical in her bid for an election now.
She's a politician, being dishonest and cynical comes with the territory.

It shows just how stupid Labour has been though.

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Old 18th April 2017, 03:45 AM   #11
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What are the odds on a Labour leadership challenge in the next few weeks?
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:01 AM   #12
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I thought 'now wasn't the time' for major uncertainty and important decisions like this?

It could of course backfire wonderfully if she, like her predecessor, grossly overestimates the likelihood of an easy win in a vote.

I don't see how a Tory GE win changes anything with respect to the Brexit negotiations to be honest, its simply an act of opportunism. June is a ridiculous timeline.
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:02 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Greebo View Post
What are the odds on a Labour leadership challenge in the next few weeks?
Hopefully zero. Last thing that is needed.
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:24 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
I don't see how a Tory GE win changes anything with respect to the Brexit negotiations to be honest, its simply an act of opportunism. June is a ridiculous timeline.
Oh, lots. It allows the party to prune Bremainers from the candidate lists and leave it with a solid Brexitard majority.

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Old 18th April 2017, 04:31 AM   #15
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May has played this very cleverly, IMO. Corbyn couldn't lead a party to win a jam competition, and the LibDems are still tainted by their broken promises in coalition. With the Tories at 42% in the polls, she gets to take a massive majority to European negotiations.

As a country, we're utterly **********.
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Oh, lots. It allows the party to prune Bremainers from the candidate lists and leave it with a solid Brexitard majority.

McHrozni
Not in the kind of timelines we are talking about for a June 8th election I don't think. Unless of course this was the plan all along but that's requiring a rather high opinion of the forward planning abilities of the Tories on this one I think.
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:39 AM   #17
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I am still furious with this government for putting back my retirement age by three years.

Their determination to have a Brexit without parliamentary input was disgraceful and well done those Supreme Court judges who blocked the idea.

I regret paying 25 to join Labour as they have done nothing to stop Brexit.

I am now going to join Lib-Dem, but can see no hope of them getting a majority vote let alone win seats. Green are dead in the water, although I voted for them in the last two elections.

May might be confident she will win the election. However, look what happened to Winston Churchill immediately after WWII.
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:40 AM   #18
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Just listened to Corbyns statement om Radio2. Not much I can say about it, it's hardly inspiring.
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:44 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Not in the kind of timelines we are talking about for a June 8th election I don't think. Unless of course this was the plan all along but that's requiring a rather high opinion of the forward planning abilities of the Tories on this one I think.
It requires the Tories to list the most vocal opponents of Brexit from their own ranks and have a list of appropriate Yes men for candidates. Their quality doesn't matter with the polls and opposition the way they are. They also don't need to prune every doubter and place a puppet on every seat, just remove the most vocal and strongest Bremainers and replace them with a combination of Brexitards and Yes men, they're both equally good for this task.

It's something maybe 10 people with the adequate knowledge of MPs can do well enough in two or three days, tops. Forward planning or three days hard work both work fine. Tories are capable of either, this isn't something complicated.

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Old 18th April 2017, 04:48 AM   #20
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Apparently she needs a 2/3 vote in the house to bring it forward from May 2020 which means getting support from Labour.

They'd have to be insane to agree but some of them may see it as a way to get rid of Corbyn earlier - assuming a non-Trumpian election result.
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:50 AM   #21
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Whoops, apparently Labour have just announced they will support it.

Idiots - it's absolutely the worst possible time in their history for a General Election.
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:54 AM   #22
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I can never quite decide if Corbyn is deluded or a secret Tory.
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:55 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
Whoops, apparently Labour have just announced they will support it.

Idiots - it's absolutely the worst possible time in their history for a General Election.
I'm starting to think he's a Tory agent, sent to destroy the Labour from the inside.

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Old 18th April 2017, 05:06 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
It requires the Tories to list the most vocal opponents of Brexit from their own ranks and have a list of appropriate Yes men for candidates. Their quality doesn't matter with the polls and opposition the way they are. They also don't need to prune every doubter and place a puppet on every seat, just remove the most vocal and strongest Bremainers and replace them with a combination of Brexitards and Yes men, they're both equally good for this task.

It's something maybe 10 people with the adequate knowledge of MPs can do well enough in two or three days, tops. Forward planning or three days hard work both work fine. Tories are capable of either, this isn't something complicated.

McHrozni
My understanding (and its far from complete) is that candidates need to be approved by a vote of the local party so it's not just a case of two guys with a list crossing out names.

It would be highly unlikely that a sitting MP is going to get taken off the list so all (any?) the current Bremainer Tory MPs will still be there.

Depending on exactly how much say the local party have on their candidates then there are limitations on how much they can gerrymander those standing in marginals too. So yes there would have to have been some level of co-ordination with local parties and I'm just not sure there is enough time to make that happen if the election is to be held in 7 weeks with campaigning presumably to start almost immediately?
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Old 18th April 2017, 05:09 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
Whoops, apparently Labour have just announced they will support it.

Idiots - it's absolutely the worst possible time in their history for a General Election.
Well given all the times he's been voting with them on Brexit it's probably become a habit for him now

In all seriousness he could hardly say no but he could have argued for later in the year and blocked it that way
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Old 18th April 2017, 05:10 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
Whoops, apparently Labour have just announced they will support it.

Idiots - it's absolutely the worst possible time in their history for a General Election.
To be honest they were in a lose lose situation. Imagine if they had said they won't support it and were happy to just stay in opposition for the next few years. They'd have been branded cowards and losers.

Probably the best they could do is to say they support it but push for the date to be later to give them more time to prepare.
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Old 18th April 2017, 05:11 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
It would be highly unlikely that a sitting MP is going to get taken off the list so all (any?) the current Bremainer Tory MPs will still be there.
Maybe, maybe not. They don't have to remove all of them, just a few would be enough - especially if they also pick up a few Labour and maybe SNP seats and fill them with Brexitards and Yes men.

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Old 18th April 2017, 05:12 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I am now going to join Lib-Dem, but can see no hope of them getting a majority vote let alone win seats.
This might be what the Lib-Dems need to get the party off life support. With Clegg out of the picture I think a lot of pro-EU voters might be prepared to hold their noses and vote for the least bad option.

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Old 18th April 2017, 05:13 AM   #29
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I feel sorry for the traditional Labour voters. First they see the party taken over by an incompetent socialist, now they'll see their party effectively destroyed and pushed out of Westminster.
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Old 18th April 2017, 05:14 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Probably the best they could do is to say they support it but push for the date to be later to give them more time to prepare.
The problem is that a later date weakens UK. It shortens the time it has to negotiate a deal with the EU. Early June is indeed the last possible date for the election if UK doesn't want to make the already tight schedule even tighter.

Theresa May is already hammering that point, UK needs to stand united, a vote for Tory is the only way to get anything out of Brexit, etc.

It's something we normally see in countries like Turkey and Russia, truth to be told. Or banana republics for that manner.

Labour should be all over this: "The right time for an election was September 2016, do not turn us into Turkey, pretty please" and so on.

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Old 18th April 2017, 05:17 AM   #31
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Labour MPs are already quitting - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7688501.html
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Old 18th April 2017, 05:20 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Mid View Post
Can't believe she didn't wait till 2020 to give guaranteed Tory rule till 2025. Maybe she was worried Corbyn wouldn't last as Labour leader that long?
The negative effects of Brexit will have started to be felt in 2020. At the moment not only does it seem hunky-dory, but she's pushing the narrative of "if you don't vote Conservative you'll make the country look weak and that will harm our Brexit negotiations". So not only is the country in the best state it's going to be for quite a while, and not only is her opposition incredibly weak (and doesn't have time to prepare), but she's also able to make it seem like voting Tory is everybody's patriotic duty at the moment, and that voting for anybody else could seriously harm the country beyond simply having someone else in power.

The potential positive is that when Labour lose there may be a change of leadership and we might get an actual opposition party who can bring the Tories to task for the next 5 years. If we're really lucky, that person will actually be left-wing, too.
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Old 18th April 2017, 05:21 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
The problem is that a later date weakens UK. It shortens the time it has to negotiate a deal with the EU. Early June is indeed the last possible date for the election if UK doesn't want to make the already tight schedule even tighter.

Theresa May is already hammering that point, UK needs to stand united, a vote for Tory is the only way to get anything out of Brexit, etc.

It's something we normally see in countries like Turkey and Russia, truth to be told. Or banana republics for that manner.

Labour should be all over this: "The right time for an election was September 2016, do not turn us into Turkey, pretty please" and so on.

McHrozni
Negotiations can proceed in the meantime. There's no need to wait for the GE result.

Of course, the other way to look at this is TM looking for yet another way to scupper Brexit and blame someone else for the failure. If you were really looking for a conspiracy theory then maybe Corbyn doesn't want to be the PM that implements Brexit anymore than May does.

What fun if we get a hung parliament and the Lib Dems/SNP are the brokers of power!
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Old 18th April 2017, 05:24 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Negotiations can proceed in the meantime. There's no need to wait for the GE result.
Not if the goal of negotiations change abruptly in the meantime they don't. Which could well happen, if the election altered the political landscape of UK to a sufficient degree.

Quote:
Of course, the other way to look at this is TM looking for yet another way to scupper Brexit and blame someone else for the failure.
This is my pet theory which I find no reason to abandon it. However how does this election further that goal is beyond me. It's clear she is unlikely to lose the election, so how does this work to scupper Brexit or at least allow her to blame someone else for the failures?

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Old 18th April 2017, 05:31 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Negotiations can proceed in the meantime. There's no need to wait for the GE result.
Without knowing which party is going to be in charge, and therefore what is going to be negotiated for, how can anybody negotiate for anything?
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Old 18th April 2017, 05:33 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
This is my pet theory which I find no reason to abandon it. However how does this election further that goal is beyond me.
It's a strange theory. If Brexit is 'scuppered' then it's irrelevant what excuses the Conservatives make, it will be a monumental failure that will haunt them for decades. The idea of TM wanting that is unfeasible to say the least. And then there's the fact that Brexit cannot be scuppered, averted, avoided, delayed or cancelled - just messed up.
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Old 18th April 2017, 05:35 AM   #37
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What May said, and what it means
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Old 18th April 2017, 05:39 AM   #38
Information Analyst
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Originally Posted by Mid View Post
Can't believe she didn't wait till 2020 to give guaranteed Tory rule till 2025. Maybe she was worried Corbyn wouldn't last as Labour leader that long?
I think she's decided to throw the dice now when Labour is in absolute disarray, rather than risk waiting until (if) they get their act back together.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 18th April 2017 at 05:44 AM.
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Old 18th April 2017, 05:42 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
It's a strange theory. If Brexit is 'scuppered' then it's irrelevant what excuses the Conservatives make, it will be a monumental failure that will haunt them for decades.
So is a hard Brexit.

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And then there's the fact that Brexit cannot be scuppered, averted, avoided, delayed or cancelled - just messed up.
Oh, I'm sure the EU 27 could be made to forgive UK all of this and allow UK to remain inside EU despite invoking A50. The only question is the price - bail out Greece and Spain with British taxpayer money, join the Euro and enter into Shengen area and UK can Bremain.

This would be probably less bad for UK than what Theresa will bring, oddly enough.

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Old 18th April 2017, 05:44 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
I think she's decided to throw the dice now when Labour is in absolute disarray, rather than risk waiting until (if) they get their act back together.
I agree, I think it is Banana republic style dirty political opportunism at it's worst, maybe coupled with an option to purge her MPs of a few annoying Bremainers.

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