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Tags 2017 elections , Georgia elections , Georgia politics , Jon Ossoff

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Old 19th April 2017, 11:59 AM   #41
dudalb
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For a Dem to do that well in a Solidly red district is a victory in itself for the Dems,though not as big a one as a outright win should have been,and is no doubt causing a massive amount of concern in the GOP.though of course they will say otherwise.
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:03 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
For a Dem to do that well in a Solidly red district is a victory in itself for the Dems,though not as big a one as a outright win should have been,and is no doubt causing a massive amount of concern in the GOP.though of course they will say otherwise.
That's because you're misinformed. The district has been trending towards the left and yet they still can't take it. The liberals do enjoy the luxury of winning when they've actually lost, funny that.
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:04 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I have no doubt that you think that's a serious question. To me that's a question based on pure emotion.
You do understand that it was a parody of a question often posed by the right, n'est-ce pas?
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:08 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
That's because you're misinformed. The district has been trending towards the left and yet they still can't take it. The liberals do enjoy the luxury of winning when they've actually lost, funny that.
Isn't that how trends work? Democrats wont win there until it trends far enough, and the trend simply hasn't reached that point yet?
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:12 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Which is of course the point... A liberal running in a 'red state', in a seat that had been easily won by the republicans in the past, almost manages to get a majority vote.
The district is going left, and the left still can't claim it, even with Trump. Makes me think your side is once again using wishful thinking with respect to your opinion about this dissatisfaction with Trump.
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If voters who have traditionally voted republican in the past look at Trump and the current makeup of Congress and say "Maybe I don't want this", then it can have an effect on future elections.
Well, certainly tell us when this will happen?
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The Democratic candidate got many, many more votes than any of his rivals. In an area where the democrats have not had recent success.
Lol
Yes because he ran against eleven other people.
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It may not be a 100% 'win', but its certainly not a loss.
He didn't need 100%, just a smidgen over 50%
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:13 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
You do understand that it was a parody of a question often posed by the right, n'est-ce pas?
Yeah but that is usually what he asks.
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:14 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Isn't that how trends work? Democrats wont win there until it trends far enough, and the trend simply hasn't reached that point yet?
Nothing gets past you Bob. Do you think they'll be able to do it? What if people realize what an emotional mess liberalism is? Might they go back to the right?
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:15 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yeah
Good. At least we got you to admit that the right engages in appeals to emotion just as much as the left.
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:16 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
Mr. Ossof can look at it as a win as he got more votes then any of the other candidates. Based on how democracy generally works, that would normally have handed him the victory.
Except for that pesky runoff.
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That being said, for some reason the State of Georgia feels that if a candidate in this sort of election can't just win the popular vote but must beat all of the losers combined, then the worst of the losing candidates are eliminated and the loser has another chance, because maybe the loser's team is more popular then the winner's.
Yeah something like that. Can the poor left ever catch a break?
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:17 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Good. At least we got you to admit that the right engages in appeals to emotion just as much as the left.
Except the left really does hate the institutions that made this country. Where have you been?
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:19 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Except the left really does hate the institutions that made this country.
You mean like slavery?
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:21 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Nothing gets past you Bob. Do you think they'll be able to do it? What if people realize what an emotional mess liberalism is? Might they go back to the right?
If it is trending liberal, then yes. If it is actually trending conservative or has no trend, then no.
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:34 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Except for that pesky runoff.

The need for a runoff seems rather pointless, given that they've held an election with a clear winner. But I understand, it's the exceptional nature of the US that requires that there be a second election if the first election doesn't yield an overwhelming majority, when the rest of the world would rely on a simple majority, then get on with the business of government rather then wasting more taxpayer's money.

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Yeah something like that. Can the poor left ever catch a break?

Poor GOP in this case, that's the party of all the losers in this election.
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:53 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
The district is going left, and the left still can't claim it, even with Trump. Makes me think your side is once again using wishful thinking with respect to your opinion about this dissatisfaction with Trump.
You keep claiming the district is "going left". But the previous republican holder of that seat won with 68% in 2008, 65% in 2012 and 62% in 2016. Even if the republicans have been loosing ground, its only by a few percentage points each time. This time, their drop in popularity was in the DOUBLE DIGITS. Far more than the tiny little 1% a year they had been dropping.

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voters who have traditionally voted republican in the past look at Trump and the current makeup of Congress and say "Maybe I don't want this", then it can have an effect on future elections.
Well, certainly tell us when this will happen?
I suspect the 2020 general election. (Given the way seats are distributed, I suspect it won't happen in the next mid terms, but given some of the recent surprises I'm not as sure anymore.)

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Yes because he ran against eleven other people.
Do you really think all of those republican voters are going to rally around just a single republican candidate in the next election?

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He didn't need 100%, just a smidgen over 50%
He got more votes than any other candidate, cut the republican percentage of the vote by double digits, and forced a runoff.

If Ossoff is a "loser" by your definition, what does that make each and every republican who ran for the seat? A super-dooper double looser?
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Old 19th April 2017, 01:01 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
The need for a runoff seems rather pointless, given that they've held an election with a clear winner. But I understand, it's the exceptional nature of the US that requires that there be a second election if the first election doesn't yield an overwhelming majority, when the rest of the world would rely on a simple majority, then get on with the business of government rather then wasting more taxpayer's money.
Technically Ossoff didn't win a majority... he received only 48%. Had he won 51% there would have been no runoff. Now, he did trounce all the republicans who were running, but not enough to put him over the 50% threshold.

Run off elections are actually fairly common... Its part of the electoral system of France, Brazil, Austria, Argentina, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-round_system#Examples
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Old 19th April 2017, 01:51 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Do you really think all of those republican voters are going to rally around just a single republican candidate in the next election?
I'm not logger and am a flaming liberal, but yes, that's exactly what's going to happen. Because it'll only be the one Republican in the two-person runoff.
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Old 19th April 2017, 02:16 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'm not logger and am a flaming liberal, but yes, that's exactly what's going to happen. Because it'll only be the one Republican in the two-person runoff.
I am sure some will... but I doubt they all will. At least a few voters probably chose candidates based on their personality, and not all of them will be compelled to follow the remaining republican. Plus, there were differences between the various candidates in how much they supported Trump, and voters who picked a moderate republican may be less inclined to vote for someone who has backed Trump.

Now there is a chance that increased turnout might be a factor, with voters thinking "That election was close... guess I'd better vote this time", but that could impact either party.
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Old 19th April 2017, 02:27 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Do you really think all of those republican voters are going to rally around just a single republican candidate in the next election?
I do. That's how we wound up with President Trump.
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Old 19th April 2017, 02:41 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
It's usually called a "jungle primary" and some states have it as a rule for the normal elections as well. For instance, the California Senate seat that was up for election last November, was contested between two Democrats because they came ahead out of the jungle primary.
You are just making this up to mess with our heads. "Jungle Primary". LOL. Next you'll try to convince me that gubernatorial is a real word.
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Old 19th April 2017, 02:54 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
You mean like slavery?
No like police, military, capitalism and don't forget Jesus himself, the king of kings.
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Old 19th April 2017, 02:54 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
For a Dem to do that well in a Solidly red district is a victory in itself for the Dems,though not as big a one as a outright win should have been,and is no doubt causing a massive amount of concern in the GOP.though of course they will say otherwise.
It's the first data-point post-inauguration so has pretty much any significance you care to choose.
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Old 19th April 2017, 02:55 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
The need for a runoff seems rather pointless, given that they've held an election with a clear winner. But I understand, it's the exceptional nature of the US that requires that there be a second election if the first election doesn't yield an overwhelming majority, when the rest of the world would rely on a simple majority, then get on with the business of government rather then wasting more taxpayer's money.
I suppose that's why the rest of the world is a pimple on our ass.



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Poor GOP in this case, that's the party of all the losers in this election.
Yes, that is a leftist belief, go with it.
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Old 19th April 2017, 02:59 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
No like police, military, capitalism and don't forget Jesus himself, the king of kings.
Just when I'm convinced you are serious and not a satirist, you post something like this.
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Old 19th April 2017, 03:02 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
No like police, military, capitalism and don't forget Jesus himself, the king of kings.
Logger, slavery was an American institution that lasted from its inception and for a hundred years. Are you in favour of slavery or not? And if not, why are you against American institutions?
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Old 19th April 2017, 03:29 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Do you really think all of those republican voters are going to rally around just a single republican candidate in the next election?
More to the point, I think, is : are all those non-Ossoff voters going to vote against him again? Many of them voted against the other candidate as well. In fact everybody voted against ten candidates.

So, out of just two, how many will vote against Ossoff this time? And that's not even to touch on differential electoral participation. Non-linear democracy in the age of the internet, you gotta love it. And only a couple of months before we get the next data-point.

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He got more votes than any other candidate, cut the republican percentage of the vote by double digits, and forced a runoff.
Hat-tip.

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If Ossoff is a "loser" by your definition, what does that make each and every republican who ran for the seat? A super-dooper double looser?
They represented the majority. Hence ten of them, one of the other lot.

It's the Curse of Obama. With Obama, Republicans are a tribe. Post-Obama - what are they? They're like a cloud of moths when the lamp is turned off, flying off randomly into the dark, bereft of their common - and pointless - purpose.

If your Republicanism is defined against Obama that's one thing, but when it's defined in favour of Trump it's another one entirely.

I'll be watching this one closely, not least as a distraction from the general election in my own country.
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Old 19th April 2017, 03:30 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
No like police, military, capitalism and don't forget Jesus himself, the king of kings.
Jesus was very much against material wealth. He even said that people should give away their wealth to the poor.

Republicans are very much in favor of the rich accumulating as much wealth as possible. So much in favor that they, for example, literally want to make rich people richer by taking healthcare from tens of millions of poor people.

You people are lucky that Jesus isn't real.
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Old 19th April 2017, 03:34 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Logger, slavery was an American institution that lasted from its inception and for a hundred years.
That was a peculiar institution. Sanctioned by the Church, if you shopped around for your Christianity.
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Old 19th April 2017, 03:42 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'm not logger and am a flaming liberal, but yes, that's exactly what's going to happen. Because it'll only be the one Republican in the two-person runoff.
But it's close enough to say the outcome isn't certain either way.

Spicer is out there selling the lie as usual: The Democrats spent 8 million (no, Ossoff collected that much, I don't see that we know how much he spent), and "they lost".

No, they didn't. Ossoff had the most votes by far. If there is no winner, there is no loser either.

As usual, the GOP talking heads all repeat the exact same words, smearing Ossoff, trying to call him a Hollywood Liberal, and pronouncing the GOP win in June. They don't mention how much the Republicans spent.
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Old 19th April 2017, 03:46 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I am sure some will... but I doubt they all will. At least a few voters probably chose candidates based on their personality, and not all of them will be compelled to follow the remaining republican. Plus, there were differences between the various candidates in how much they supported Trump, and voters who picked a moderate republican may be less inclined to vote for someone who has backed Trump.

Now there is a chance that increased turnout might be a factor, with voters thinking "That election was close... guess I'd better vote this time", but that could impact either party.
We've got a couple of months to wait, but I'll be astounded if Ossoff wins the general election. The Dems put on a YUGE get-out-the-vote effort. They'll be lucky to equal that result in the general. Meanwhile, the R's have been taken by surprise and be working very hard. And don't forget the invitable rumor-mongering about Ossoff, who by June will be the second coming of Obama, if not worse.
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Old 19th April 2017, 03:53 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
We've got a couple of months to wait, but I'll be astounded if Ossoff wins the general election. The Dems put on a YUGE get-out-the-vote effort. They'll be lucky to equal that result in the general. Meanwhile, the R's have been taken by surprise and be working very hard. And don't forget the invitable rumor-mongering about Ossoff, who by June will be the second coming of Obama, if not worse.
Two more months for Trump to **** up even more.

I wouldn't be taking bets just yet.
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Old 19th April 2017, 03:56 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
But it's close enough to say the outcome isn't certain either way.

Spicer is out there selling the lie as usual: The Democrats spent 8 million (no, Ossoff collected that much, I don't see that we know how much he spent), and "they lost".

No, they didn't. Ossoff had the most votes by far. If there is no winner, there is no loser either.

As usual, the GOP talking heads all repeat the exact same words, smearing Ossoff, trying to call him a Hollywood Liberal, and pronouncing the GOP win in June. They don't mention how much the Republicans spent.
"Liberal" they've got, and "Hollywood" risks awakening Arnie.

The same old line, sounding very tired and out of touch.
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Old 19th April 2017, 03:59 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And don't forget the invitable rumor-mongering about Ossoff, who by June will be the second coming of Obama, if not worse.
I think we can depend on logger to keep us apprised of that.
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Old 19th April 2017, 04:02 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
We've got a couple of months to wait, but I'll be astounded if Ossoff wins the general election.
Just out of interest, has anything else astounded you recently?
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Old 19th April 2017, 04:17 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Out of curiosity, do all US congressional district elections use this multiple runoff approach? Or does the state that contains the district decide?
The states decide. And in this case, I think Georgia only has it for special elections.
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Old 19th April 2017, 04:19 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
You are just making this up to mess with our heads. "Jungle Primary". LOL. Next you'll try to convince me that gubernatorial is a real word.


Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Out of curiosity, do all US congressional district elections use this multiple runoff approach? Or does the state that contains the district decide?
Every state can decide itself how it organizes the elections. The only parameters the federal law sets are that House seats are elected per district and Senate seats are elected statewide (and that every citizen over 18 years has a vote).

For the regular House elections in Georgia, apparently, there are separate primaries per party, as is the common procedure; but Georgia law has the quirk that the party must organize a runoff if no candidate achieves 50%. Last year, this happened in the 3rd district with the Republican primary. According to this article, that is a holdover from the time that Georgia was effectively a one-party state.
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Old 19th April 2017, 04:22 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
The two top GOP candidates in the vote were both Trump-ish Republicans - Handel didn't run for anything on Trump's coattails but she's a typical Georgia reactionary: anti-abortion, tried to defund Planned Parenthood, pro-wall, cutting waste(read: drain the swamp).... I think either she or Gray are a lock for the conservative vote - the question is how many moderate Republicans might be in the district. A sufficient number of them held their noses long enough to vote for Hillary.
(consults map)

Trump is also planning on building an Atlantikwall, to keep all those pesky illegal Europeans out who swim over the pond? Otherwise I don't quite see the relevance for the good citizens of Georgia.

Just kidding. I didn't consult a map.
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Last edited by ddt; 19th April 2017 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 19th April 2017, 04:24 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
For a Dem to do that well in a Solidly red district is a victory in itself for the Dems,though not as big a one as a outright win should have been,and is no doubt causing a massive amount of concern in the GOP.though of course they will say otherwise.
This.
Originally Posted by logger View Post
That's because you're misinformed. The district has been trending towards the left and yet they still can't take it. The liberals do enjoy the luxury of winning when they've actually lost, funny that.
It was so dangerously close to becoming left that just last November, Tom Price took it with 62%.
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Last edited by ddt; 19th April 2017 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 19th April 2017, 04:27 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
But it's close enough to say the outcome isn't certain either way.

Spicer is out there selling the lie as usual: The Democrats spent 8 million (no, Ossoff collected that much, I don't see that we know how much he spent), and "they lost".

No, they didn't. Ossoff had the most votes by far. If there is no winner, there is no loser either.

As usual, the GOP talking heads all repeat the exact same words, smearing Ossoff, trying to call him a Hollywood Liberal, and pronouncing the GOP win in June. They don't mention how much the Republicans spent.
"Hollywood Liberal" - pretty rich, since the GOP's president is literally a fat cat Hollywood producer. ($110,228/yr from his Screen Actors Guild pension)
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Old 19th April 2017, 04:37 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
"Hollywood Liberal" - pretty rich, since the GOP's president is literally a fat cat Hollywood producer. ($110,228/yr from his Screen Actors Guild pension)
Yeah, these people decry Hollywood elites or whatever even though they voted for someone who was most famous for being on a TV show. Oh, and he's also a billionaire from NYC who until a few months ago lived in a huge gold covered penthouse in a skyscraper that he owns.
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:00 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Yeah, these people decry Hollywood elites or whatever even though they voted for someone who was most famous for being on a TV show. Oh, and he's also a billionaire from NYC who until a few months ago lived in a huge gold covered penthouse in a skyscraper that he owns.
And you still haven't figured out why.
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