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Old 19th April 2017, 04:12 AM   #1
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"Alternative navigation"

BBC News: North Korea tension - US 'armada' was not sailing to Korean peninsula

"A US aircraft carrier and other warships did not sail towards North Korea - but went in the opposite direction, it has emerged.

The US Navy said on 8 April that the Carl Vinson strike group was travelling to the Korean peninsula amid tensions over Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions.

Last week President Trump said an "armada" was being sent.

But the group was actually farther away over the weekend, moving through the Sunda Strait into the Indian Ocean."

Last edited by Information Analyst; 19th April 2017 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 19th April 2017, 04:52 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
BBC News: North Korea tension - US 'armada' was not sailing to Korean peninsula

"A US aircraft carrier and other warships did not sail towards North Korea - but went in the opposite direction, it has emerged.

The US Navy said on 8 April that the Carl Vinson strike group was travelling to the Korean peninsula amid tensions over Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions.

Last week President Trump said an "armada" was being sent.

But the group was actually farther away over the weekend, moving through the Sunda Strait into the Indian Ocean."
Well, since we have "alternative facts" then it follows that we should also have "alternative navigation".



By the way, ...

I am glad that someone besides myself had noticed that the so-called Trump "armada" had not arrived in the area of Korea even though they had several days to make the crossing.
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Old 19th April 2017, 04:57 AM   #3
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...so... what's their mission then?

Information Analyst: your link is incorrect, by the way.
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:26 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
...so... what's their mission then?

Information Analyst: your link is incorrect, by the way.
Whoops! Fixed now.
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:28 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Well, since we have "alternative facts" then it follows that we should also have "alternative navigation".



By the way, ...

I am glad that someone besides myself had noticed that the so-called Trump "armada" had not arrived in the area of Korea even though they had several days to make the crossing.
I remarked to Mrs Analyst at the time that it just cock-waving on Trump's part. Now it seems it was Trump claiming to be cock-waving, whilst turned away from the person he was supposed to be waving it at!
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:57 AM   #6
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Oh, cut the man some slack. I mean, Korea isn't THAT far from Australia, is it?
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:57 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
I remarked to Mrs Analyst at the time that it just cock-waving on Trump's part. Now it seems it was Trump claiming to be cock-waving, whilst turned away from the person he was supposed to be waving it at!
Thanks much!

"Cock-waving" is a great term to use for just about any of the Trump hyperbole.



By the way, did anyone else notice the how VP Pence has been recently pledging to various nations that the USA will definitely support its Asian allies in their fights with North Korea?

I imagine it was much easier for Pence to say such things with a straight face when he was assured by the President Trump himself of the imminent arrival of the Carl Vinson battle group in this area. This incident is starting to remind me of how Pence covered for Mike Flynn after Flynn told Trump that he [Flynn] had lied to Pence.

Pence has got to be wondering by now just what kind of nut job horse that he has hitched his cart to.
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:59 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
...so... what's their mission then?
Training exercises with the Aussies apparently.
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Old 19th April 2017, 06:17 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Thanks much!

"Cock-waving" is a great term to use for just about any of the Trump hyperbole.



By the way, did anyone else notice the how VP Pence has been recently pledging to various nations that the USA will definitely support its Asian allies in their fights with North Korea?

I imagine it was much easier for Pence to say such things with a straight face when he was assured by the President Trump himself of the imminent arrival of the Carl Vinson battle group in this area. This incident is starting to remind me of how Pence covered for Mike Flynn after Flynn told Trump that he [Flynn] had lied to Pence.

Pence has got to be wondering by now just what kind of nut job horse that he has hitched his cart to.
We had a term 'round these parts a few years ago for the Virtual JREFF Chest-Thumping Invasion Force, who as you'll all recall have successfully conquered Venezuela, Myanmar, North Korea, Somalia, Iraq, Syria, Iran, the Ukraine, and I believe, Kansas.


That term is perfect for the Trump military fantasies:

Swing-Dickery
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Old 19th April 2017, 06:19 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
...snip...

Pence has got to be wondering by now just what kind of nut job horse that he has hitched his cart to.
Only now - I hadn't realised how dumb he was!
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Old 19th April 2017, 07:15 AM   #11
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Trump had them connect cables to NK and attempt to drag the country into the Indian Ocean to isolate them. He felt that because aircraft carriers are “uge” and “fantastic” and NK is small it should work. He later tweeted “who knew toeing a country would be so difficult.”
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Old 19th April 2017, 07:21 AM   #12
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Just in case anyone is interested, here is a good accounting of what happened in regards to the battle group movement to this issue and what is expect to happen in the near future in regards to the battle group movement.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.ba2d864203b3

Despite talk of a military strike, Trump’s ‘armada’ actually sailed away from Korea

BEIJING — As tensions mounted on the Korean Peninsula, Adm. Harry Harris made a dramatic announcement: An aircraft carrier had been ordered to sail north from Singapore on April 8 toward the Western Pacific.

...

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis told reporters on April 11 that the Carl Vinson was “on her way up there.” Asked about the deployment in an interview with Fox Business Network that aired April 12, President Trump said: “We are sending an armada, very powerful.”

U.S. media went into overdrive, and Fox reported on April 14 that the armada was “steaming” toward North Korea.

...

Instead of steaming toward the Korea Peninsula, the carrier strike group was actually headed in the opposite direction to take part in “scheduled exercises with Australian forces in the Indian Ocean,” according to Defense News, which first reported the story.

...

CNN also cited U.S. defense officials as saying the aircraft carrier would arrive off the Korean Peninsula at the end of April.


So it looks like the battle group will go to the area of Korea via the Indian Ocean after it has left Singapore in order to arrive at there new patrol area by the end of April, 2017 as opposed to a much sooner date.

Wow!

It sure is a good thing that Trump knows more about ISIS than the generals and now Trump has provided these generals with a rather unique lesson in map reading as well. I am sure that all of these guys were very pleased to obtain such valuable instruction from their commander in chief.
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Old 19th April 2017, 07:49 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
BBC News: North Korea tension - US 'armada' was not sailing to Korean peninsula

"A US aircraft carrier and other warships did not sail towards North Korea - but went in the opposite direction, it has emerged.

The US Navy said on 8 April that the Carl Vinson strike group was travelling to the Korean peninsula amid tensions over Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions.

Last week President Trump said an "armada" was being sent.

But the group was actually farther away over the weekend, moving through the Sunda Strait into the Indian Ocean."
Those North Koreans are lucky. Having eaten, Rod Torfulson and Herman Menderchuk are not to be messed with.
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Old 19th April 2017, 07:55 AM   #14
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Trump actually used the word 'Armada'?

Hmm, why did that word become famous again?
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Old 19th April 2017, 07:58 AM   #15
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Trump's proving the Trump Surprise Doctrine. The Trump Tell Them That You're Coming Doctrine doesn't seem to have slowed down the war in Syria, so this time he kept it a big secret and left 'em wondering. The man's brilliant.
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Old 19th April 2017, 08:00 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Trump actually used the word 'Armada'?

Hmm, why did that word become famous again?



Next, we'll send the Light Brigade straight at 'em! They'll never expect that!
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Old 19th April 2017, 09:17 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post



Next, we'll send the Light Brigade straight at 'em! They'll never expect that!
Nobody expects the ... uhr show 'em the Soft Cushion?
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Old 19th April 2017, 09:45 AM   #18
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Trump has explained that the "armada" doesn't matter because we've got submarines, which are more powerful than any carrier. Because nukes, I guess.
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Old 19th April 2017, 11:30 AM   #19
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So what? Maybe the Trump gang are screwing with Kim. Maybe they are stopping off to get beer. Which is better, an armada heading to NK or one not heading to NK?

What's the big deal? I'm pretty sure that Trump is not the one steering the ships.

If they turn around, if Trump stubs his toe, are we going to get yet another Trump thread?

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Old 19th April 2017, 11:45 AM   #20
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Geez, people. Don't you know that one of the keys to a successful military operation is surprise? The Carl Vinson is going around the world and will sneak up on North Korea from the other side.
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Old 19th April 2017, 11:49 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Geez, people. Don't you know that one of the keys to a successful military operation is surprise?
Surprise and fear. Fear and surprise. The two keys to a successful military operation are fear and surprise... and ruthless efficiency. The three keys...
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:00 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
...so... what's their mission then?

[b].
Protecting Australia from the Japanese Fleet?
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Old 19th April 2017, 01:04 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Surprise and fear. Fear and surprise. The two keys to a successful military operation are fear and surprise... and ruthless efficiency. The three keys...
...and we will rise at dawn to fight...after a light breakfast...maybe some tea...

...we will rise instead at half past eight...after some eggs and bacon...and then we will fight or intimidate...

...no...we will rise at 9ish after carousing the night away...and have a full breakfast.......
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Old 19th April 2017, 01:51 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
BBC News: North Korea tension - US 'armada' was not sailing to Korean peninsula

"A US aircraft carrier and other warships did not sail towards North Korea - but went in the opposite direction, it has emerged.

The US Navy said on 8 April that the Carl Vinson strike group was travelling to the Korean peninsula amid tensions over Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions.

Last week President Trump said an "armada" was being sent.

But the group was actually farther away over the weekend, moving through the Sunda Strait into the Indian Ocean."
Unless you are a flat earther then going the opposite direction is just taking the long way round when you are on the surface of a spheroid.
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Old 19th April 2017, 01:53 PM   #25
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Why am I hearing the background music for this to be Yakety Sax?
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:16 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Geez, people. Don't you know that one of the keys to a successful military operation is surprise? The Carl Vinson is going around the world and will sneak up on North Korea from the other side.
Nothing like pissing off allies for no good reason.

Quote:
On Wednesday, after it was revealed that the carrier strike group was actually thousands of miles away and had been heading in the opposite direction, toward the Indian Ocean, South Koreans felt bewildered, cheated and manipulated by the United States, their country’s most important ally.

“Trump’s lie over the Carl Vinson,” read a headline on the website of the newspaper JoongAng Ilbo on Wednesday. “Xi Jinping and Putin must have had a good jeer over this one.”

“Like North Korea, which is often accused of displaying fake missiles during military parades, is the United States, too, now employing ‘bluffing’ as its North Korea policy?” the article asked.

The episode raised questions about whether major allies of the United States, like South Korea and Japan, had been informed of the carrier’s whereabouts, and whether the misinformation undercut America’s strategy to contain North Korea’s nuclear ambitions by using empty threats.

Compounding their anger over the Carl Vinson episode, many South Koreans also were riled at Mr. Trump for his assertion in a Wall Street Journal interview last week that the Korean Peninsula “used to be a part of China.” Although Korea was often invaded by China and forced to pay tributes to its giant neighbor, many Koreans say the notion that they were once Chinese subjects is egregiously insulting.
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:19 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
The thing currently occupying the Oval Office has been doing that since just about the day President Obama left for vacation.
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:27 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
So what? Maybe the Trump gang are screwing with Kim. Maybe they are stopping off to get beer. Which is better, an armada heading to NK or one not heading to NK?

What's the big deal? I'm pretty sure that Trump is not the one steering the ships.

If they turn around, if Trump stubs his toe, are we going to get yet another Trump thread?
Sorry, but are you seriously suggesting that it's not a big deal when you announce that you're steaming toward NK in order to intimidate them, but you're really going to Australia?

Just a little screwup. Absolutely could happen to anyone. How is this a big thing?

Some serious miscommunication happened here. I don't know at what level it happened, but it's damned embarrassing..

(Your suggestion that maybe it's intentional is cute and doesn't appear desperate in the least.)
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Sorry, but are you seriously suggesting that it's not a big deal when you announce that you're steaming toward NK in order to intimidate them, but you're really going to Australia?

Just a little screwup. Absolutely could happen to anyone. How is this a big thing?

Some serious miscommunication happened here. I don't know at what level it happened, but it's damned embarrassing..

(Your suggestion that maybe it's intentional is cute and doesn't appear desperate in the least.)
Do you seriously think the ******* president of the United States didn't know where they were going? Will the left ever figure this president out?
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:36 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Do you seriously think the ******* president of the United States didn't know where they were going? Will the left ever figure this president out?
I seriously think there was some confused communication and there's no advantage to say you're on the way and then a few days later, admit that it won't arrive until end of April.

It's not like you've gained surprise. They were wondering where the group was for a few days, I'm sure, but now they know they have a week and a half wait.

It's cute to watch you two[1] pretend it was planned.

[1] See how you can do that? I didn't say this is what the right is doing, because I don't know about all the right. I just said something about you two. Try it sometimes, instead of asinine statements about "the left".
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Old 19th April 2017, 05:50 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I seriously think there was some confused communication and there's no advantage to say you're on the way and then a few days later, admit that it won't arrive until end of April.

It's not like you've gained surprise. They were wondering where the group was for a few days, I'm sure, but now they know they have a week and a half wait.

It's cute to watch you two[1] pretend it was planned.

[1] See how you can do that? I didn't say this is what the right is doing, because I don't know about all the right. I just said something about you two. Try it sometimes, instead of asinine statements about "the left".
Why do you give a flying **** what I say about the left? Especially since you claim to not be one. I try to avoid "you" because that makes it personal and the moderation enjoys pointing that out to me.

Did it also ever occur to you that fleet movement could be a fluid thing? Trump is not going to telegraph for the enemy and leftists?
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Old 19th April 2017, 06:07 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Why do you give a flying **** what I say about the left? Especially since you claim to not be one. I try to avoid "you" because that makes it personal and the moderation enjoys pointing that out to me.

Did it also ever occur to you that fleet movement could be a fluid thing? Trump is not going to telegraph for the enemy and leftists?
You just referred to me as the left. Rather than complain that I'm not a liberal, I thought it best to point out how you can converse with others without dull stereotypes.

Fleet movement could be a fluid thing? That's a decent pun, but this fleet was going to scheduled maneuvers in Australia, not reacting to changes in geopolitics or weather.

Sure, he had it all under control. But if the fleet arrives around the end of April, then surely he has telegraphed the arrival, since we've been told that's the updated ETA. So, maybe it won't arrive until June, right?
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Old 19th April 2017, 06:13 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
I remarked to Mrs Analyst at the time that it just cock-waving on Trump's part. Now it seems it was Trump claiming to be cock-waving, whilst turned away from the person he was supposed to be waving it at!
That's some excellent amateur cock-waving maneuvers on your part, right there.

Be sure to keep us informed the next time you want to wave your cock.

I'm sure it never gets old to Mrs Analyst.
The rest of us can take it or leave it.
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Old 19th April 2017, 06:23 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I seriously think there was some confused communication and there's no advantage to say you're on the way and then a few days later, admit that it won't arrive until end of April.

It's not like you've gained surprise. They were wondering where the group was for a few days, I'm sure, but now they know they we have a w eeak and a half wait in charge.
It's cute to watch you two[1] pretend it was planned.

[1] See how you can do that? I didn't say this is what the right is doing, because I don't know about all the right. I just said something about you two. Try it sometimes, instead of asinine statements about "the left".
A few letters deleted, a few letters added fixes that right up for you.
You can thank me later.
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Old 19th April 2017, 06:36 PM   #35
logger
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
You just referred to me as the left. Rather than complain that I'm not a liberal, I thought it best to point out how you can converse with others without dull stereotypes.

Fleet movement could be a fluid thing? That's a decent pun, but this fleet was going to scheduled maneuvers in Australia, not reacting to changes in geopolitics or weather.

Sure, he had it all under control. But if the fleet arrives around the end of April, then surely he has telegraphed the arrival, since we've been told that's the updated ETA. So, maybe it won't arrive until June, right?
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Old 19th April 2017, 06:44 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
BBC News: North Korea tension - US 'armada' was not sailing to Korean peninsula

"A US aircraft carrier and other warships did not sail towards North Korea - but went in the opposite direction, it has emerged.

The US Navy said on 8 April that the Carl Vinson strike group was travelling to the Korean peninsula amid tensions over Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions.

Last week President Trump said an "armada" was being sent.

But the group was actually farther away over the weekend, moving through the Sunda Strait into the Indian Ocean."
I knew the ********** didn't know east from west.
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Old 19th April 2017, 06:54 PM   #37
PhantomWolf
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Do you seriously think the ******* president of the United States didn't know where they were going? Will the left ever figure this president out?
You mean, will they figure out that he means the opposite of what he literally says?

You know like when he literally said...

"I like the mandate. Here's where I'm a little bit different. I don't want people dying in the streets" and then two weeks later released a seven point healthcare plan that included... "A complete repeal of the Affordable Care Act, as no citizen should be forced to buy health insurance."

Or when he literally said...

"There's many different ways, by the way. Everybody's got to be covered. This is an un-Republican thing for me to say because a lot of times they say, 'No, no, the lower 25 percent that can't afford private'… I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now," when what he really meant was that 24 million less Americans would have health insurance under his plan than under the ACA

Or when he literally said...

"the government's gonna pay for it [medicare]. But we're going to save so much money on the other side. But for the most it's going to be a private plan and people are going to be able to go out and negotiate great plans with lots of different competition with lots of competitors with great companies and they can have their doctors, they can have plans, they can have everything." when what he really meant was that the Government was going to cut Medicare spending, that people weren't going to be able to negotiate, that premiums would go up, and that they would still be at the whims of their insurance company as to if they retained their current doctor.

Or how about when he literally said...

"I don't know Putin. I have no idea. I never met Putin. This is not my best friend," when he really meant "But, as far as the Ukraine is concerned, and you could Syria — as far as Syria, I like — if Putin wants to go in, and I got to know him very well because we were both on 60 Minutes, we were stablemates, and we did very well that night." Which of course he meant, the appeared on the same show and didn't actually meet at that point in time, though he might have meant "I do have a relationship and I can tell you that he’s very interested in what we’re doing here today He’s probably very interested in what you and I am saying today, and I’m sure he’s going to be seeing it in some form" to which he really meant "[H]e has said nice things about me over the years. I remember years ago, he said something, many years ago, he said something very nice about me. I said something good about him when Larry King was on. This was a long time ago. And I said, “He is a tough cookie,” or something to that effect. He said something nice about me. This has been going on." Or perhaps he just meant "I own Miss Universe, I was in Russia, I was in Moscow recently and I spoke, indirectly and directly, with President Putin, who could not have been nicer, and we had a tremendous success."

Or when he literally said...

“Mexico will pay for the wall, believe me — 100 percent — they don’t know it yet, but they will pay for the wall. They’re great people, and great leaders, but they will pay for the wall” and he really meant that US Taxpayers and consumers would be paying for it.

I could go on, there have even been times he contradicted himself in a single sentence and many more things that he promised to do that he simply hasn't, or has done the exact opposite of what he claimed to be going to do.

I guess my question is how do you manage to trust a president who continually says things that simply are not true, and makes promises that he continues to not just fail to meet, but delivers the exact opposite of what he said he would?

If you can't take your president at his literal word, then how can you be so willing to follow him when you don't have a clue if he really means what he says?
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Old 19th April 2017, 06:58 PM   #38
Checkmite
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Did it also ever occur to you that fleet movement could be a fluid thing? Trump is not going to telegraph for the enemy and leftists?
Trump chose to make a very big deal about what he had ordered this aircraft carrier to do. He didn't have to say anything at all, if operational security was anywhere on his agenda. Lying publicly over and over again about how the carrier was on its way gained absolutely no advantage for the US or South Korea; in fact South Korea, the ally we're supposedly doing all of this for, were the only people who were "misdirected" by Trump's statements.

I rather suspect that DoD tells Trump only what it thinks he absolutely has to know, because his compulsion for blurting out what he knows just to show that he knows something - a compulsion from which even classified information has demonstrably proven to not be safe - is probably considered a tremendous security risk.
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Old 19th April 2017, 08:06 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
If you can't take your president at his literal word, then how can you be so willing to follow him when you don't have a clue if he really means what he says?
Faith. Mortals like you and I cannot fathom the deep thinking of Trump, but everything will work out. Just wait.
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Old 19th April 2017, 08:16 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Trump chose to make a very big deal about what he had ordered this aircraft carrier to do. He didn't have to say anything at all, if operational security was anywhere on his agenda. Lying publicly over and over again about how the carrier was on its way gained absolutely no advantage for the US or South Korea; in fact South Korea, the ally we're supposedly doing all of this for, were the only people who were "misdirected" by Trump's statements.

I rather suspect that DoD tells Trump only what it thinks he absolutely has to know, because his compulsion for blurting out what he knows just to show that he knows something - a compulsion from which even classified information has demonstrably proven to not be safe - is probably considered a tremendous security risk.
Pure fantasy, you obviously do not understand the role of the commander in chief.
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