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Old 18th August 2020, 03:48 AM   #41
Darat
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I think there's a compelling argument that the man was engaged in physical intimidation. Are you telling me a reasonable person would not feel in danger if someone that was haranguing them on public transit followed them out the door, squaring off with clenched fists?

..snip..
The person who assaulted the racist had left the train and then came back to make the assault. That cannot be considered self-defence.
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That aside, I'll make it easier though. It is a moral imperative to persecute racists and fascists. They should be confronted in public, and if they try to assert themselves with violence, they should be injured until they stop.
But that is not what happened in this incident. I agree that people engaging in public disorder should be persecuted, that people spouting off like he did should be challenged - as happened. And if they use violence against someone then retaliatory violence in self defense can be acceptable and legal.
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I have nothing but contempt for those that were willing to do nothing as this man harassed the other 3, but suddenly felt aggrieved when they took action to defend themselves. Absolute coward nonsense. If they wanted to prevent violence so badly, they should have confronted the racist and talked him down. Expecting his victims to run off with their tails between their legs is embarrassing.
The man was challenged by several people on the train, the evidence is not that he was specifically aiming his racism as any individual or individuals in the video.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:14 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Please excuse my parochialism, but what exactly was this man saying?
I could make out clearly the words of the young woman chastising him- but the combination of the low audio and accented English makes it nearly impossible for me to tell what much of what he actually said was.
Was he saying "black people are trash"?
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
The "white people are trash" was an example but of course I expected someone to jump on this with "Well, did he actually say that,
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
?"

Do you reject the fact that he clearly tried to agitate these 3 guys?

Do you reject the fact that the people in the train called him a racist? Why do you think they called him that? Because calling people racist is fun and they are all of the pesky SJW type?

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Old 18th August 2020, 04:17 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Clearly you did not read my posts. I'm all for active policing.You support vigilante justice. I find this to be a disgraceful position.
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
We have the offence of public disorder, that is how he should have been handled.
LOL.

Yeah, lets fine this guy 100$ or whatever and the next day he will be back in the train, harrasing black people.

What a GREAT solution.

The comments on the video suspect that the nazi has now severe brain damage. Which means he will be in some sort of nursing home soon. Prison would be great, but living as a vegetable is also great for him.

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Old 18th August 2020, 04:19 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The person who assaulted the racist had left the train and then came back to make the assault. That cannot be considered self-defence.


But that is not what happened in this incident. I agree that people engaging in public disorder should be persecuted, that people spouting off like he did should be challenged - as happened. And if they use violence against someone then retaliatory violence in self defense can be acceptable and legal.


The man was challenged by several people on the train, the evidence is not that he was specifically aiming his racism as any individual or individuals in the video.
I see the puncher stopping in the door to receive his final insults from the racist who is clearly puffing up for some pathetic display of physical intimidation. Well done to him for not allowing this racist to celebrate a victory of heckling them off the train without response.

If you call a few half-hearted complaints a challenge, sure, they "challenged" him. I see a bunch of cowards chirping about civility while they remain firmly in their seats. The only strong voice is the woman filming, and hat's off to her, because the POV video of the racist getting his brain hard reset made my morning.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:26 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
LOL.

Yeah, lets fine this guy 100$ or whatever and the next day he will be back in the train, harrasing black people.

What a GREAT solution.

The comments on the video suspect that the nazi has now severe brain damage. Which means he will be in some sort of nursing home soon. Prison would be great, but living as a vegetable is also great for him.
Not only supporting vigilante justice, but applauding an outcome out of all proportion to the offence.

A disgusting post.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:29 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I see the puncher stopping in the door to receive his final insults from the racist who is clearly puffing up for some pathetic display of physical intimidation. Well done to him for not allowing this racist to celebrate a victory of heckling them off the train without response.

If you call a few half-hearted complaints a challenge, sure, they "challenged" him. I see a bunch of cowards chirping about civility while they remain firmly in their seats. The only strong voice is the woman filming, and hat's off to her, because the POV video of the racist getting his brain hard reset made my morning.
The real coward was the one who took the law into his hands and punched someone who was not defending himself. Are you also happy that the man reportedly has brain damage?
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:30 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The real coward was the one who took the law into his hands and punched someone who was not defending himself. Are you also happy that the man reportedly has brain damage?
Yeah, thanks for the good news, I hadn't seen that bit yet. Please share a link I think it would be great if this racist suffered long term, even permanent, suffering as a consequence of this incident. Let him be a lesson to other that may wish to stir race hatred and fear in the community.

Seems odd to characterize someone standing up for themselves as cowardice. Even if you think it was unjust, taking direct action in the face of opposition is pretty much the opposite of cowardice.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:35 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Not only supporting vigilante justice, but applauding an outcome out of all proportion to the offence.

A disgusting post.
Of course you try to deescalate it and you get your throat cut. Really there is nothing to be done for racist harassment and as we can see the police are useless as they just let these fine people go.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:41 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
His behavior seems exactly the kind of thing those ranting about cancel culture want to defend right up until he killed those guys...
I've read a few of the folks who go on about cancel culture, don't recall any of them defending racist tirades in public.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:42 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Not only supporting vigilante justice, but applauding an outcome out of all proportion to the offence.

A disgusting post.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Last edited by zooterkin; 18th August 2020 at 05:45 AM.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:43 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
More brownshirt 'logic'. The "white people are trash" was an example but of course I expected someone to jump on this with "Well, did he actually say that, hurr durr?"

Do you reject the fact that he clearly tried to agitate these 3 guys?

Do you reject the fact that the people a person in the train called him a racist? Why do you think they called him that? Because calling people racist is fun and they are all of the pesky SJW type?
You could have just said "I don't know what he was actually saying, and am simply going to base my assumptions on what the person doing the posting has labelled the incident as"
A good example of "cancel Cultures" failings, actually.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:44 AM   #52
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To those wringing your hands over this incident, you are aware of the high costs of racist and fascist government, right? If these nascent neo-fascist elements are successful in seizing power, as their historical predecessors did, the cost will be untold amounts of spilled blood to even have chance to remove them.

The Soviet Union won't be here to save us this time from the fascist menace, it'll be us westerners doing all the dying this time around.

These fascists must be opposed everywhere they have the courage to show their faces.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:46 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I see the puncher stopping in the door to receive his final insults from the racist who is clearly puffing up for some pathetic display of physical intimidation. Well done to him for not allowing this racist to celebrate a victory of heckling them off the train without response.

If you call a few half-hearted complaints a challenge, sure, they "challenged" him. I see a bunch of cowards chirping about civility while they remain firmly in their seats. The only strong voice is the woman filming, and hat's off to her, because the POV video of the racist getting his brain hard reset made my morning.
She definitely found him to be "racist".
What do you think was the most racist thing he said?
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:48 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
She definitely found him to be "racist".
What do you think was the most racist thing he said?
Originally Posted by Man who is imminently about to suffer a TBI
“This is my home, you’re all going back,” the man shouts at the group.
It's hard to parse his incomprehensible accent, but I think the British tabloids had a little better luck with it.

https://thegrio.com/2020/08/17/video...y-racist-rant/
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:48 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yeah, thanks for the good news, I hadn't seen that bit yet. Please share a link I think it would be great if this racist suffered long term, even permanent, discomfort as a consequence of this incident.

Seems odd to characterize someone standing up for themselves as cowardice. Even if you think it was unjust, taking direct action in the face of opposition is pretty much the opposite of cowardice.
Did you actually watch the video? Who was the guy abusing? It was not likely the three black guys who only appeared to come within the orbit of the loudmouth as they were leaving the train. Yes, the guy was an obnoxious pig, but punching someone who wasn't watching or defending himself is "direct action the the face of opposition"? Come off it.

What we have here is an obnoxious, offensive idiot, probably a substance abuser, who should have had the police called upon him, and on the other hand someone committing criminal assault.

Seriously, how can you seriously claim that the coward punch was self defence? It wasn't. It was vigilante justice, which you and others support.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:50 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I've read a few of the folks who go on about cancel culture, don't recall any of them defending racist tirades in public.
Plenty here think that a mere racist meltdown in public is the kind of thing that should not result in consequences, and if it does that is cancel culture. Otherwise you are deplatforming them and all that which is cancel culture. That is exactly what a lot of people are decrying and your link doesn't work.

OF course that is why the idea of cancel culture is BS. People accept consequences for such speech when it is sufficiently unpopular in their eyes it is all about if in your view the individual deserved the canceling they got. People seemed OK with the canceling of Alex Jones for his conspiracy theories and slander of grieving parents. But it is still cancel culture that got him deplatformed.

You seem to find canceling these racist tirades on mass transit acceptable, until the assault it over a certain line.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:51 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
You could have just said "I don't know what he was actually saying, and am simply going to base my assumptions on what the person doing the posting has labelled the incident as"
A good example of "cancel Cultures" failings, actually.
So you are going to ignore the part where I asked you why did they call him a racist? Totally expected.

Cancel Culture? What are you talking about? Your buddy got cancelled alright
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:51 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Did you actually watch the video? Who was the guy abusing? It was not likely the three black guys who only appeared to come within the orbit of the loudmouth as they were leaving the train. Yes, the guy was an obnoxious pig, but punching someone who wasn't watching or defending himself is "direct action the the face of opposition"? Come off it.

What we have here is an obnoxious, offensive idiot, probably a substance abuser, who should have had the police called upon him, and on the other hand someone committing criminal assault.

Seriously, how can you seriously claim that the coward punch was self defence? It wasn't. It was vigilante justice, which you and others support.
Feel free to send him a get well card. Probably want to use pictures though, his brains might be too scrambled for the written letter. Thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:52 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Did you actually watch the video? Who was the guy abusing? It was not likely the three black guys who only appeared to come within the orbit of the loudmouth as they were leaving the train. Yes, the guy was an obnoxious pig, but punching someone who wasn't watching or defending himself is "direct action the the face of opposition"? Come off it.

What we have here is an obnoxious, offensive idiot, probably a substance abuser, who should have had the police called upon him, and on the other hand someone committing criminal assault.

Seriously, how can you seriously claim that the coward punch was self defence? It wasn't. It was vigilante justice, which you and others support.
Oh, he definitely had a punch in the face coming. He was trying very hard to get a rise out of anyone on the train. He got just what he was looking for and deserved.

What is not apparent is what he was talking about.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:52 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
To those wringing your hands over this incident, you are aware of the high costs of racist and fascist government, right? If these nascent neo-fascist elements are successful in seizing power, as their historical predecessors did, the cost will be untold amounts of spilled blood to even have chance to remove them.

The Soviet Union won't be here to save us this time from the fascist menace, it'll be us westerners doing all the dying this time around.

These fascists must be opposed everywhere they have the courage to show their faces.
Oh, how hilarious. The coward puncher was striking a blow against totalitarianism? Not enough laughing dogs.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:52 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Did you actually watch the video? Who was the guy abusing? It was not likely the three black guys who only appeared to come within the orbit of the loudmouth as they were leaving the train. Yes, the guy was an obnoxious pig, but punching someone who wasn't watching or defending himself is "direct action the the face of opposition"? Come off it.

What we have here is an obnoxious, offensive idiot, probably a substance abuser, who should have had the police called upon him, and on the other hand someone committing criminal assault.

Seriously, how can you seriously claim that the coward punch was self defence? It wasn't. It was vigilante justice, which you and others support.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
Yeah, calling the police on him would totally have helped.

Last edited by zooterkin; 18th August 2020 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:54 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
So you are going to ignore the part where I asked you why did they call him a racist? Totally expected.

Cancel Culture? What are you talking about? Your buddy got cancelled alright
Yes, exactly why did she call him a racist? What was he saying that made her decide that label was the one she wished to use instead of Dickhead, Jerk, *******, Loudmouth, etc.. etc... tc...


ETA. Rescinded. The second link to the incident is much more clear. Definitely racist. Absolutely targeted at the black dudes.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:56 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh, how hilarious. The coward puncher was striking a blow against totalitarianism? Not enough laughing dogs.
Yea that is only funny when it is the police shooting someone in the head with a baton round. Then it is all good and proper. Clearly that is the way this should have been resolved.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:56 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Oh, he definitely had a punch in the face coming. He was trying very hard to get a rise out of anyone on the train. He got just what he was looking for and deserved.
Sigh.

I didn't realise there was a police strike happening at that time and place.

Another defender of vigilante justice.

You do realise there are laws against people who decide to dish out "justice" like this?
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:58 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yea that is only funny when it is the police shooting someone in the head with a baton round. Then it is all good and proper. Clearly that is the way this should have been resolved.
If you are going to respond to me, respond to what I'm saying. I have not said a word about police shootings.
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Old 18th August 2020, 04:59 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's hard to parse his incomprehensible accent, but I think the British tabloids had a little better luck with it.

https://thegrio.com/2020/08/17/video...y-racist-rant/
Much better. Thanks.
Yeah, he was looking to get a rise out of the black dudes in particular.
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:00 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Sigh.

I didn't realise there was a police strike happening at that time and place.

Another defender of vigilante justice.

You do realise there are laws against people who decide to dish out "justice" like this?
He was searching for exactly what he found. Congratulations to him.
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:00 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Sigh.

I didn't realise there was a police strike happening at that time and place.

Another defender of vigilante justice.

You do realise there are laws against people who decide to dish out "justice" like this?
If they catch the guy who cancelled the Nazi (and I think they will), you won't hear me demanding "Free this guy!!!". He punched him and if he gets caught, he will have to take responsibility. But at the end of the day, an obnoxious piece of garbage got what he deserved.
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:02 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh, how hilarious. The coward puncher was striking a blow against totalitarianism? Not enough laughing dogs.
The laughing dogs are part of my anarchist community defense network.

Checkmate.
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:03 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Yes, exactly why did she call him a racist? What was he saying that made her decide that label was the one she wished to use instead of Dickhead, Jerk, *******, Loudmouth, etc.. etc... tc...


ETA. Rescinded. The second link to the incident is much more clear. Definitely racist. Absolutely targeted at the black dudes.
LOL, so you actually thought they called him a racist just because. Laughable.
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:04 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
If you are going to respond to me, respond to what I'm saying. I have not said a word about police shootings.
I get it traumatic brain injury is fine when it is something like a cop shooting a reporter with a baton round. No one expects the cops to get in trouble for normal behavior like that. But this is a serious problem because he was getting his speech canceled.

You keep saying the police are the right group do deal with this, and yet they have a proven track record of ignoring this behavior or going after the victims.

I am sure the cops would have done the usual thing and arrested the black guys on the train and let this nice white guy go. It is what cops do.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/12/us/sa...rnd/index.html
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:05 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
I get it traumatic brain injury is fine when it is something like a cop shooting a reporter with a baton round. No one expects the cops to get in trouble for normal behavior like that. But this is a serious problem because he was getting his speech canceled.

You keep saying the police are the right group do deal with this, and yet they have a proven track record of ignoring this behavior or going after the victims.

I am sure the cops would have done the usual thing and arrested the black guys on the train and let this nice white guy go. It is what cops do.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/12/us/sa...rnd/index.html
Er, do you realise where the video was filmed?
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:07 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
LOL, so you actually thought they called him a racist just because. Laughable.
I know, right!? Evidence-schmevidence!
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:07 AM   #74
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Er, do you realise where the video was filmed?
Any actual evidence that the police there are less racist?
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:10 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The person who assaulted the racist had left the train and then came back to make the assault. That cannot be considered self-defence.
I would add that most places in the civilized world actually have a duty to retreat if you can, and it's only self-defense if you can't. It's not just if you have successfully retreated already, but even if you clearly CAN retreat, then you MUST. It's only self defense if you can't. E.g., you're trapped in the subway with someone attacking you (or someone else who can't retreat,) or such.

Most places in the USA have some version of the castle doctrine, i.e., you don't have to retreat from your own home if someone attacks you there, but most of the rest of the world actually doesn't have that doctrine. And unless we're talking about it happening in your residential vehicle instead of public transportation, or I guess if you own the bus, it sure as eff-bomb doesn't apply.

Even where you do have the castle doctrine on your side, it ends the instant any of those involved have exited that exact perimeter. E.g., you can't chase the guy down the street afterwards or anything.

Again, I'm under the impression that Hollywood has created this impression that vigilantism is cool, throwing punches is just some way to make it clear how much you disagree, and generally as long as you're not using some sharp implement, it's totally ok and not attempted murder. You know, just like Batman can hit someone in the head with a batarang and it's ok because he's not killing anyone that way. RL is a bit more complicated than comic-books and movies based on comic books.

Standard disclaimer: this is not actual legal advice. If anyone was planning to actually start playing vigilante at any point, please, for the love of pussy, talk to a real lawyer first.
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Last edited by HansMustermann; 18th August 2020 at 05:12 AM.
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:10 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I know, right!? Evidence-schmevidence!
I know, right!? Calling people racists on the train for no reason is a totally common thing. You were sooo right doubting those pesky SJWs.
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:16 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
I would add that most places in the civilized world actually have a duty to retreat if you can, and it's only self-defense if you can't. It's not just if you have successfully retreated already, but even if you clearly CAN retreat, then you MUST. It's only self defense if you can't. E.g., you're trapped in the subway with someone attacking you (or someone else who can't retreat,) or such.

Most places in the USA have some version of the castle doctrine, i.e., you don't have to retreat from your own home if someone attacks you there, but most of the rest of the world actually doesn't have that doctrine. And unless we're talking about it happening in your residential vehicle instead of public transportation, or I guess if you own the bus, it sure as eff-bomb doesn't apply.

Even where you do have the castle doctrine on your side, it ends the instant any of those involved have exited that exact perimeter. E.g., you can't chase the guy down the street afterwards or anything.
Again, I'm under the impression that Hollywood has created this impression that vigilantism is cool, throwing punches is just some way to make it clear how much you disagree, and generally as long as you're not using some sharp implement, it's totally ok and not attempted murder. You know, just like Batman can hit someone in the head with a batarang and it's ok because he's not killing anyone that way. RL is a bit more complicated than comic-books and movies based on comic books.

Standard disclaimer: this is not actual legal advice. If anyone was planning to actually start playing vigilante at any point, please, for the love of pussy, talk to a real lawyer first.
Speaking about the US law broadly is generally a bad idea. Laws very state to state. Some have explicit duties to retreat, others have explicit rights to stand your ground. Castle law has nothing to do with encounters in public spaces.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that this action was lawful, just that is was good. History has shown that allowing these fash safe harbor to dominate public spaces is generally a very bad idea. Bashing the fash isn't legal advice, and yet remains good guidance.
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:16 AM   #78
Distracted1
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
I know, right!? Calling people racists on the train for no reason is a totally common thing. You were sooo right doubting those pesky SJWs.
So common that the accusation is considered legally meaningless.

https://www.sfbbg.com/insights/are-f...of-defamation/

from the piece:

For example, in Stevens v. Tillman,[1] a Chicago elementary school principal brought a defamation action against PTA president and Chicago alderman Dorothy Tillman for, among other things, calling her a racist and asserting that she made “racist statements.” The court held that these assertions were not defamatory per se.

The statements or conduct that purportedly predicated the defamation claim were not submitted to the court. In finding that the statements were not actionable, the court noted:

Illinois has competing doctrines: first, that statements impugning one’s
professional competence are actionable without further proof of injury;
second, that “mere” name-calling is not actionable. … Accusations of
“racism” no longer are “obviously and naturally harmful.” The word has been watered down by overuse, becoming common coin in political discourse
. Tillman called Stevens a racist; Stevens issued a press release calling Tillman a “racist” and her supporters “bigots.” … When Stevens called Tillman a “racist,” Stevens was accusing Tillman of playing racial politics … rather than of believing in segregation or racial superiority. That may be an unfortunate brand of politics, but it also drains the term of its former, decidedly opprobrious, meaning. … The term has acquired intermediate meanings too. The speaker may use “she is a racist” to mean “she is condescending to me, which must be because of my race because there is no other reason to condescend.” … Meanings of this sort fit comfortably within the immunity for name-calling. … In daily life “racist” is hurled about so indiscriminately that it is no more than a verbal slap in the face; the target can slap back (as Stevens did). It is not actionable unless it implies the existence of undisclosed, defamatory facts, and Stevens has not relied on any such implication.[2]

Similarly, in Grutzmacher v. Chicago Sun-Times Inc.,[3] Judge Kathy Flanagan, citing Stevens, found that statements referring to the plaintiff as a “neo-Nazi” were nonactionable opinions.

Stevens and Gruzmacher are based upon a fundamental concept in defamation law: To prove actionable, a statement must consist of objectively verifiable fact. Amorphous opinions, even when obviously negative, which lack clearly ascertainable meaning are not actionable.

Other Illinois reported cases have found that the following terms and phrases, in the absence of objectively verifiable facts, were nonactionable opinions: “fired because of incompetence,” “cocky con-artist,” “useless piece of ****,” “very poor lawyer,” “unethical,” “lazy,” “burnt out,” and “unstable.”

As Stevens teaches, assertions that someone is a racist or guilty of racism are often unaccompanied by factual context. In such circumstances, even if racism was to become a new defamation per se category, the statement, “Smith is a racist,” without more, would remain nonactionable. End of quote.



Interesting to the incident being discussed, The guy looking for trouble took to being very clear about his view. "You are lesser than us" is about as unambiguously racist as one could be. As if he wanted there to be no doubt at all. No watered down definition there.
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:20 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Speaking about the US law broadly is generally a bad idea. Laws very state to state. Some have explicit duties to retreat, others have explicit rights to stand your ground.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that this action was lawful, just that is was good. History has shown that allowing these fash safe harbor to dominate public spaces is generally a very bad idea. Bashing the fash isn't legal advice, and yet remains good guidance.
Just as long as the side you support are doing the bashing.....
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Old 18th August 2020, 05:22 AM   #80
SuburbanTurkey
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Just as long as the side you support are doing the bashing.....
Unless you are a pacifism absolutist, you support the idea of righteous applications of violence. Don't play this canard, it's absurd.

Yes, I do think it's better when decent people are delivering the blows, and not fascists in control of the state. You really nailed me to the wall on that one.
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