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Tags animal incidents , big cats , lions

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Old 28th August 2020, 10:13 AM   #41
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I always hear this. It sounds like ********. What case is there of a chimp pulling somebody's arm out of the socket? I mean chimps are stronger than humans pound for pound, but compare a healthy 190 lb human male and an average chimp less than half the size it's a lot closer. Range of motion is also quite different in humans and chimps.

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Chimps can do a LOT of damage, if my memory serves me well, up to and including killing adult humans in a variety of fun ways.

I don't think that they belong in quite the same category of potential lethal danger as lions or tigers (or socialised elephants, for that matter....), but for sure they can put you either in intensive care or in a funny-shaped box if they put their minds to it.
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Old 28th August 2020, 10:21 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Chimps can do a LOT of damage, if my memory serves me well, up to and including killing adult humans in a variety of fun ways.



I don't think that they belong in quite the same category of potential lethal danger as lions or tigers (or socialised elephants, for that matter....), but for sure they can put you either in intensive care or in a funny-shaped box if they put their minds to it.
That lady who got her face ripped off was small, weak and wasn't expecting the attack at all. It's a good case to remind people to keep their guard up around wild animals, but a poor example of the relative strength of a chimp to a human.



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Old 28th August 2020, 10:46 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
That lady who got her face ripped off was small, weak and wasn't expecting the attack at all. It's a good case to remind people to keep their guard up around wild animals, but a poor example of the relative strength of a chimp to a human.

https://www.ippl.org/gibbon/blog/a-tragedy-in-eden/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf8CPrDGQac

https://www.foxnews.com/science/chim...ople-in-uganda

https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...e-attack-0409/

From that first link: "An adult male chimp is five times as strong as a human"


Care to reconsider.......?
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Old 28th August 2020, 11:25 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
That lady who got her face ripped off was small, weak and wasn't expecting the attack at all. It's a good case to remind people to keep their guard up around wild animals, but a poor example of the relative strength of a chimp to a human.



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Chimps' muscles are stronger than humans. I think the latest research found they are about 1.5 times stronger gram for gram. They have a very different mix of muscle fibers than humans. You also have to remember a chimp will not "hold back" when attacking.
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Old 28th August 2020, 11:32 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post

No because that little factoid is based on obsolete studies, most notably this one.

John Hawks, anthropologist at University of Wisconsin-Madison:
Originally Posted by John Hawks
The suspicious claim seems to have originated in a flapper-era study conducted by a biologist named John Bauman. Poe’s story of the scalp-pulling orangutan struck Bauman as being “grotesquely impossible.” In 1923, he noted that every expert in the field believed apes were vastly stronger than humans—yet none had ever tried to prove it. So he packed up a device used to measure pull strength, called a dynamometer, and set out for the Bronx Zoo.....It appeared that chimpanzees really could be more than five times stronger than humans.

<snip>

...But the “five times” figure was refuted 20 years after Bauman’s experiments. In 1943, Glen Finch of the Yale primate laboratory rigged an apparatus to test the arm strength of eight captive chimpanzees. An adult male chimp, he found, pulled about the same weight as an adult man. Once he’d corrected the measurement for their smaller body sizes, chimpanzees did turn out to be stronger than humans—but not by a factor of five or anything close to it.
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Old 28th August 2020, 11:32 AM   #46
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Which raises the question, is it safe for chimps to play with white lions?
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Old 28th August 2020, 11:33 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Chimps' muscles are stronger than humans. I think the latest research found they are about 1.5 times stronger gram for gram. They have a very different mix of muscle fibers than humans. You also have to remember a chimp will not "hold back" when attacking.
Yeah 1.5 times is about what I've heard.
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Old 28th August 2020, 12:26 PM   #48
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Dog muscles are too. And I lately learned that other animals have 2-3 more elastin genes. I wonder if that is the root of the strength.
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Old 28th August 2020, 12:33 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Yeah 1.5 times is about what I've heard.
In addition to your face, I hear they're really good at biting your genitalia off.
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Old 28th August 2020, 12:50 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Dog muscles are too. And I lately learned that other animals have 2-3 more elastin genes. I wonder if that is the root of the strength.
I weigh about 6 times what my 40 lb dog weighs. On the odd occasion that he tries to strain on his leash to get closer to a really interesting smell it takes considerable effort to hold him in place. My 100 lb daughter has much difficulty controlling him on a leash if he decides to pull. I think his strength and ability to pull is roughly equivalent to hers.
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Old 28th August 2020, 12:56 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
No because that little factoid is based on obsolete studies, most notably this one.

John Hawks, anthropologist at University of Wisconsin-Madison:

Were the adults in my several links who were killed and seriously injured by the chimps "based on obselete studies" too....?

As I said: care to reconsider?
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Old 28th August 2020, 01:04 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Were the adults in my several links who were killed and seriously injured by the chimps "based on obselete studies" too....?

As I said: care to reconsider?
"Chimps are dangerous and can seriously injure humans" was never in dispute.

The 5-times stronger figure and ripping people limb from limb stuff are misleading or outdated claims that even renowned naturalists parrot.
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Old 28th August 2020, 01:20 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
"Chimps are dangerous and can seriously injure humans" was never in dispute.

The 5-times stronger figure and ripping people limb from limb stuff are misleading or outdated claims that even renowned naturalists parrot.
I wouldn't be surprised with a combination of biting and pulling they could remove an arm. Videos of chimpanzees hunting show they do pull off the limbs of the primates they hunt, which shows it is within their usual killing behaviour.
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Old 28th August 2020, 01:56 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I wouldn't be surprised with a combination of biting and pulling they could remove an arm. Videos of chimpanzees hunting show they do pull off the limbs of the primates they hunt, which shows it is within their usual killing behaviour.

I would say that the repeated argument on this matter, in the face of pretty clear evidence to the contrary, is reminiscent of a dog with a bone.... but maybe "a chimpanzee with a severed arm" would be more apposite here
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Old 28th August 2020, 02:34 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I wouldn't be surprised with a combination of biting and pulling they could remove an arm. Videos of chimpanzees hunting show they do pull off the limbs of the primates they hunt, which shows it is within their usual killing behaviour.
I mean yes this happens, especially on small monkeys the size of toddlers. Their bite force is far superior to that of humans. But the popular belief is that this is entirely due to their immense strength and they can do the same to adult humans, which isn't accurate. And group hunting helps with that.

Even adult male chimps are too small and uncoordinated to completely manhandle a strong adult man solo.
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Old 28th August 2020, 04:43 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Which raises the question, is it safe for chimps to play with white lions?
For the chimps, or the lions?
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Old 28th August 2020, 04:55 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
For the chimps, or the lions?

It'd probably end up as Mutually Assured Destruction, with the aftermath looking like a Sam Peckinpah film......
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Old 28th August 2020, 06:26 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
It'd probably end up as Mutually Assured Destruction, with the aftermath looking like a Sam Peckinpah film......
I got sucked onto YouTube due to one of the links above, which means wild animals mauling people is going to start coming up on my recommendations.

Most incidents seem connected to humans being severely out of touch with the nature of carnivorous wild animals. I hesitate to attribute "malice" to any animal, but the chimps seem to come pretty close.

ETA: Meanwhile my forearms are dotted with tiny scabs associated with a rather bitey dachshund puppy. She has learned not to bite too hard, but seems to enjoy tearing scabs off ...

Last edited by Minoosh; 28th August 2020 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 28th August 2020, 08:36 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
"Chimps are dangerous and can seriously injure humans" was never in dispute.

The 5-times stronger figure and ripping people limb from limb stuff are misleading or outdated claims that even renowned naturalists parrot.
What are they comparing it to? The average gym rat is probably close to twice as strong by most measures as the average human at the same body weight.
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Old 28th August 2020, 08:48 PM   #60
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Two pages in and nobody's mentioned the band White Lion! Tell me the 80s actually happened, and it wasn't just a wonderful dream I had!!!!
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Old 28th August 2020, 09:04 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Two pages in and nobody's mentioned the band White Lion! Tell me the 80s actually happened, and it wasn't just a wonderful dream I had!!!!

It is odd that in TV and movies they usually exaggerate trends of the 50s, 60s, and 70s, but idiosyncrasies of the 80s are downplayed. Since you never see the weirdness, you forget how weird it was.
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Old 28th August 2020, 09:09 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Modified View Post
It is odd that in TV and movies they usually exaggerate trends of the 50s, 60s, and 70s, but idiosyncrasies of the 80s are downplayed. Since you never see the weirdness, you forget how weird it was.
I think the 80s was the normal period, and everything before or after is the weird times.
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Old 28th August 2020, 09:35 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I got sucked onto YouTube due to one of the links above, which means wild animals mauling people is going to start coming up on my recommendations.

Most incidents seem connected to humans being severely out of touch with the nature of carnivorous wild animals. I hesitate to attribute "malice" to any animal, but the chimps seem to come pretty close.

ETA: Meanwhile my forearms are dotted with tiny scabs associated with a rather bitey dachshund puppy. She has learned not to bite too hard, but seems to enjoy tearing scabs off ...
Most people are also out of touch with how wild animals interact, particularly in interspecific conflict.
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Old 28th August 2020, 09:53 PM   #64
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I really think that a fundamental law of nature is "don't start none, won't be none".
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Old 28th August 2020, 10:09 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Two pages in and nobody's mentioned the band White Lion! Tell me the 80s actually happened, and it wasn't just a wonderful dream I had!!!!
Or this movie (aka the most dangerous film ever made)....

Last edited by Shadowdweller; 28th August 2020 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 28th August 2020, 10:10 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
The 5-times stronger figure and ripping people limb from limb stuff are misleading or outdated claims that even renowned naturalists parrot.
5 times precisely or not, Chimpanzee upper body strength is notably higher than that of an adult human. At the cost of decreased fine motor control.

Last edited by Shadowdweller; 28th August 2020 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 28th August 2020, 11:22 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Modified View Post
What are they comparing it to? The average gym rat is probably close to twice as strong by most measures as the average human at the same body weight.

Average gym rat better start working on their cardio and their Jesse Owen's impression.
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Old 28th August 2020, 11:27 PM   #68
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My local pub on OE while living in Streatham was called the White Lion.

I feel a strange kind of bond
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Old 28th August 2020, 11:51 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Most people are also out of touch with how wild animals interact, particularly in interspecific conflict.

They eat each other. Gross.
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Old 29th August 2020, 02:03 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Modified View Post
What are they comparing it to? The average gym rat is probably close to twice as strong by most measures as the average human at the same body weight.
Muscle makeup.
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Old 29th August 2020, 04:09 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Muscle makeup.

Yes this. But also factors such as leverage ratios* and the strength and attachment points of tendons and ligaments.


* See also Archimedes' explanation of the power of a suitable lever: "Give me the place to stand, and I shall move the earth" - by which he meant that, given a firm base and a long enough lever with the fulcrum placed so as to provide a big enough leverage ratio, a man would be able to lift a mass as heavy as the Earth.
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Old 29th August 2020, 06:00 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Muscle makeup.
Dude, that sounds like the next idiotic product idea worth a billion dollars. Can't you just picture hundreds of gym bros doing videos online of how to apply makeup to their muscles? "Brush the tone powder into the contours of your abs, like this. See how this makes them really pop? Now for the pec highlights."
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Old 29th August 2020, 06:03 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
5 times precisely or not, Chimpanzee upper body strength is notably higher than that of an adult human. At the cost of decreased fine motor control.
Picture it: a human head on a chimp torso on kangaroo legs: the ultimate creature! It would be crazy to not build this in my secret lab on Lightning Mountain! Igor, check the weather forecast!
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Old 29th August 2020, 09:41 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Picture it: a human head on a chimp torso on kangaroo legs: the ultimate creature! It would be crazy to not build this in my secret lab on Lightning Mountain! Igor, check the weather forecast!
The decreased fine motor coordination would likely limit its ability to fire lasers, unfortunately (or at least avoid breaking them). There really is no good replacement for human minions at this time.

Last edited by Shadowdweller; 29th August 2020 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 29th August 2020, 12:56 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
The decreased fine motor coordination would likely limit its ability to fire lasers, unfortunately (or at least avoid breaking them). There really is no good replacement for human minions at this time.
In that case we should take inspiration from Fallout and go for Gatling Shotgun Lasers. The power of pinpoint laser accuracy is no match for wholesale widespread demolition. Besides. There’s the almost certainty of being able to hit more than one target at the same time.
Granted, a few will be from our own side. But if that would be a problem, they shouldn’t have been minions. Comes with the territory, as they say.
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Old 29th August 2020, 01:13 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
The decreased fine motor coordination would likely limit its ability to fire lasers, unfortunately (or at least avoid breaking them). There really is no good replacement for human minions at this time.
Obviously the lasers would be grafted onto the chimp nipples, and set to auto-fire. The frankenchiparoo need only be facing the broad direction of the target, although with nipple lasers the temperature might affect the aiming.
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Old 29th August 2020, 02:54 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Two pages in and nobody's mentioned the band White Lion! Tell me the 80s actually happened, and it wasn't just a wonderful dream I had!!!!
“When the children cry, let them know it’s only a chimp ripping their faces off...”
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Old 29th August 2020, 03:13 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
“When the children cry, let them know it’s only a chimp ripping their faces off...”
People always talk about faces getting ripped off like that's the worst case scenario. Wouldn't it be far, far creepier for a chimp to --instead of ripping your face off-- put someone else's face on you, and then push it in until it stuck? That would leave you with a bloody, rubbery doubleface, doughy and weeping a constant stream of icky fluids. Surely that's worse than a nice clean skullface.

As for lions, white or nonwhite, they have powerful jaws. They could take a bite out of your head as if it were an apple. What if they took a bite large enough to disfigure you but not enough to kill you, and then they lost interest? You'd look a pretty chump walking around with a big bite taken out of your head. Believe me, I know, one of my high school teachers had that exact thing happen to him except it wasn't his head it was his legs and it wasn't a lion it was a shark and it wasn't a bite it was a shovel-caused wound and it wasn't really my teacher, it was a teacher at my school but I didn't have him for anything, and also I never actually saw the wound I just heard the story but it's so obviously true it's self-evident. Who would make that up? There's just too many details for it to be fictional. Absolutely 100% credibility, watertight! 90%. 70% minimum. 60%.
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Old 29th August 2020, 04:06 PM   #79
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For chimps it's all about the swagger!

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@0:33

Last edited by Elagabalus; 29th August 2020 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 29th August 2020, 04:27 PM   #80
LondonJohn
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Join Date: May 2010
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
For chimps it's all about the swagger!

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@0:33

Personally, I'm a little concerned at the fact that chimps like to stalk very small young women with no clothes on.
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