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Old 9th June 2019, 03:06 PM   #201
Emre_1974tr
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Yeah, I always say that in my writings.

Knowledge = strong belief based on evidence

Proving something strengthens your faith in it.

But tomorrow, for example, I can show you that your name was taught wrong. Your family has kept your real name from you because of a protection program. If I prove it to you, your old faith will be destroyed. You create a new faith (for example, your name is actually Tarkan).
Or let's say you learn that your parents are your step parents.

They were your parents according to your old belief. But according to your new belief, they are no longer your parents.
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:20 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, not believing in God is an act of faith in your believing world. So atheism is a belief.

and It's a superstition.
You obviously don't understand english very well. Because it is neither. Not believing in God is the same as not believing in Santa Claus or other mythical creatures.

And a disbelief is not a superstition as it is not a belief in the supernatural which is what ALL SUPERSTITIONS ARE.

BTW: WE ARE ALL STILL WAITING FOR YOUR EVIDENCE.
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:30 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Not believing in God is the same as not believing in Santa Claus or other mythical creatures.

.
No.

God is real.

Not believing in God is a superstition. Rejecting the truth is really an escape. To take refuge in superstition.

I've been sharing some of the evidence for a year and a half in forum. But unless you dare to face the truth, you will continue to ignore these evidence.

Last edited by Emre_1974tr; 9th June 2019 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 9th June 2019, 04:00 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No.

God is real.

Not believing in God is a superstition. Rejecting the truth is really an escape. To take refuge in superstition.

I've been sharing some of the evidence for a year and a half in forum. But unless you dare to face the truth, you will continue to ignore these evidence.
Nope. Completely wrong.

All you have done is chuck quotes from a stupid book and gloss over those stupid quotes with a stupid interpretation.

I don't care. It is all still a stupid idea.

Now, I am an atheist. Tell me again what superstition it is that I believe? Because I believe in none, least of all your immoral thug-god. So have at it. What superstitions do you think I believe?
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Old 9th June 2019, 04:06 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No.

God is real.

Not believing in God is a superstition. Rejecting the truth is really an escape. To take refuge in superstition.

I've been sharing some of the evidence for a year and a half in forum. But unless you dare to face the truth, you will continue to ignore these evidence.
Sorry, but evidence is testable and confirmable. I do not ignore evidence.

Babble in an old book does not constitute evidence. If God is real, we should be able to come up with a FALSIFIABLE TEST. What kind of test did you use to confirm God? I believe in millions of things as they are demonstrable and falsifiable. I'm more than willing to believe in your God if you can present a demonstrable, confirmable and most importantly falsifiable test. If Einstein can come up with a method to prove relativity, surely you can come up with one for your God.

Do you have a photo or video of god? Can we see God on the Hubble Telescope or an electron microscope? Can I measure for God like I can with electricity?

Is God a carbon based being? Is God male or female? Does he/she have sex? Who created God? Finally, how do you know any of this?

Feel free to present ANY evidence that fits this criteria.
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Old 9th June 2019, 04:11 PM   #206
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Let's have a little comparison, shall we?

Do you believe in Santa Claus, Emre?

Santa Claus has millions of believers worldwide. Just like Allah.

Santa Claus is everywhere at once. Just like Allah.

Santa Claus watches your every action and thought. Just like Allah.

Santa Claus rewards the good and punishes the wicked. Just like Allah.

Thus Santa Claus is as real as Allah.

However, there is (according to you) only one book about Allah. There are thousands of books about Santa Claus. Therefore Santa Claus has more documentary evidence than Allah. Therefore Santa Claus is more likely than Allah.
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Old 9th June 2019, 06:43 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I've been sharing some of the evidence for a year and a half in forum.
All that crap in your other threads is what you consider evidence?

Quote:
But unless you dare to face the truth, you will continue to ignore these evidence.
No one has ignored your evidence. In fact, they've engaged you vigorously on it. You are the one ignoring the responses.

Your notion of "evidence" seems to be to pontificate with the assumption that the Qur'an is true. This is no different than Christians who pretend to prove the existence of God by assuming the Bible is true.

You have no idea what evidence is.
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Old 9th June 2019, 07:05 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
This is no different than Christians who pretend to prove the existence of God by assuming the Bible is true.
This reminds me of that inane song they taught us in bible school when I was little.

Yes Jesus loves me
Oh yes Jesus loves me
Oh yes Jesus loves me, for the Bible tells me so
Yes Jesus loves me, love
Oh yes…


The circular argument that this is emblematic of use to drive me crazy. Even back then.
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Old 9th June 2019, 08:02 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This reminds me of that inane song they taught us in bible school when I was little.

Yes Jesus loves me
Oh yes Jesus loves me
Oh yes Jesus loves me, for the Bible tells me so
Yes Jesus loves me, love
Oh yes…


The circular argument that this is emblematic of use to drive me crazy. Even back then.
For me that became a depressing blow to my faith; that Jesus himself never told me he loved me.
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Old 9th June 2019, 08:54 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, not believing in God is an act of faith in your believing world. So atheism is a belief.

Fascinating. When else is not doing something the act of doing it? I'm not driving my car right now so I guess I'm driving. I'm not bowling so I'm also bowling. I probably shouldn't be driving in the bowling alley, but that's how these things go.
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Old 10th June 2019, 02:17 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Fascinating. .
A - You believe I'm telling the truth.

B - You don 't believe I' m telling the truth.

Both options are your thought action. Both faith.
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Old 10th June 2019, 02:53 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
A - You believe I'm telling the truth.

B - You don 't believe I' m telling the truth.

Both options are your thought action. Both faith.
A is deluded. Nobody believes you are foisting anything but a bizarre fantasy.

On the other hand, B is backed by so much solid evidence that it has long passed mere belief, scuttled right through fact and onwards into the realm of outright ridicule.

Face it Emre, your ideas are a big ball of crap. Just like your magic book.
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Old 10th June 2019, 05:58 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
God is real.


Let's make a few edits to explore your "logic."

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No.

God Cthulhu is real.

Not believing in God Cthulhu is a superstition. Rejecting the truth is really an escape. To take refuge in superstition.

I've been sharing some of the evidence for a year and a half in forum. But unless you dare to face the truth, you will continue to ignore these evidence.
Why does this change work? Because the "Evidence" you've provided for the existence of a deity has been nothing but opinion. You have literally provided as much evidence for the existence of a god as you have for the existence of Cthulhu. Your claim to have been providing evidence for the existence of god is a bald faced lie.
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Old 10th June 2019, 06:00 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
But tomorrow, for example, I can show you that your name was taught wrong. Your family has kept your real name from you because of a protection program. If I prove it to you, your old faith will be destroyed. You create a new faith (for example, your name is actually Tarkan).
Ohhhh! Are we going to get a lesson in the Turkish version of the "Sovereign Citizen" movement?



You created a thread asking we demand proof. We keep demanding proof for the existence of a deity and you keep refusing to provide it. Are you trolling or jut not paying attention to your own thread?
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Old 10th June 2019, 06:03 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, not believing in God is an act of faith in your believing world. So atheism is a belief.

and It's a superstition.
That means, by your definition, your lack of belief in Thor is a superstition.
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Old 10th June 2019, 06:15 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
A - You believe I'm telling the truth.

B - You don 't believe I' m telling the truth.
No, things are not that simple. I think you don't know what you're talking about when you post here. So no, I don't believe what you're trying to evangelize, because I can so easily poke logical or factual holes in it. Now you seem to think you're being extra clever by playing word games a child can see through.

No, rejecting your wanton superstitions is not, itself, another act you can turn around and call superstitious. "I know you are, but what am I?" is a game that got old when our ages were still single digits.

Quote:
Both options are your thought action.
Ah, so today instead of providing evidence for your god, you're equivocating "thought" and "action."

Quote:
Both faith.
No. You're inviting us to have faith in your god. We decline. That means we are not performing the action that you do, and that you have invited us to do. Atheists are defined pointedly by that lack of performance. No, it is not an act of faith to not believe where there is no evidence to support the requested belief.

I demand evidence for your god. You've told us that what you've posted in your other threads is that evidence. I disagree, and I've given you the reasons why I disagree. You haven't addressed any of those reasons. In fact, you pretty much ignore most of your critics when they try to engage you according to the facts. Then you rudely accuse your critics of being irrational.

So if that's where we stand, then I say you have failed to meet the demand for evidence, that your claim fails, and that you owe all the skeptics here an apology for your unsupported accusations.

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Old 10th June 2019, 07:46 AM   #217
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Emre, I accept all your evidence for Allah and the truth of the Quran, and I will now abandon all the things I used to hold true.

Now I am converted absolutely to Islam, and will begin following all its tenets and rules. I will believe nothing else for the rest of my life, and will endow an orthodox madrassa with my estate before I die.

Do you believe me?
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Old 10th June 2019, 07:48 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
A - You believe I'm telling the truth.

B - You don 't believe I' m telling the truth.

Both options are your thought action. Both faith.
Believing something is NOT faith. I may accept something you tell me because it is not extraordinary or that you have demonstrated your truthfulness. This is not "faith" as in how religions use the word.

Because, my belief is conditional according to what you might say. If you tell us that you had rice yesterday for dinner, I'll trust that this is true. If a bum on the street corner tells me that he'll give me a billion dollars ten years from now if I give him one thousand dollars today, I'm likely to be skeptical and not believe him. Believing you had rice yesterday is NOT an act of faith. However, giving the bum a thousand dollars and thinking the bum is going to give you a billion dollars ten years from now would be.

Faith is the reason people give when they don't have a good reason. Because if they have a good reason they would give the reason." It is gullibility, pure and simple.
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Old 10th June 2019, 09:36 AM   #219
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Old 10th June 2019, 11:14 AM   #220
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What religions demonstrate is the power of indoctrination. Combined with their imaginary carrot and stick philosophy, they are incredibly effective at brainwashing.
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Old 10th June 2019, 11:18 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What religions demonstrate is the power of indoctrination. Combined with their imaginary carrot and stick philosophy, they are incredibly effective at brainwashing.
The whole "get them while they're young" idea works wonders as well.
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Old 10th June 2019, 01:55 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
The whole "get them while they're young" idea works wonders as well.

Yes they really got Emre at a young age. Just look at that selfie of himself he uses as his avatar.
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Old 11th June 2019, 11:51 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Or let's say you learn that your parents are your step parents.
What you're discussing here is a group marriage. The "Step" prefix indicates someone is related to you because someone remarried. For example, let's say Mike has three sons:
  1. Greg
  2. Peter
  3. Bobby

Carol has three daughters:
  1. Marcia
  2. Jan
  3. Cindy

Mike is a widower and Carol is a widow. The biological mother of Mike's kids is dead, and the biological father of Carol's kids is dead.

If Carol and Mike get married, Carol would be the step-mother of Mike's three sons, and Mike would be the step-father of Carol's three daughters.

The three sons would gain three step-sisters and the three daughters would gain three step-brothers.

In order for someone to have TWO step-parents, one of the following would need to happen:
  1. Carol and Mike both engage in bigamy, marrying Fabio and Janice. Fabio and Janice then raise all six children. Carol and Mike run away to a tropical island.
  2. Mike dies and Carol marries Fabio. Mike's three sons would then have a step-mother and a step-father, but no biological parents left.
  3. Carol dies and Mike marries Fabio. Carol's three daughters would then have only step-parents and no biological parents left.
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Old 11th June 2019, 12:47 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
[snip]
  1. Carol and Mike both engage in bigamy, marrying Fabio and Janice. Fabio and Janice then raise all six children. Carol and Mike run away to a tropical island.
  2. Mike dies and Carol marries Fabio. Mike's three sons would then have a step-mother and a step-father, but no biological parents left.
  3. Carol dies and Mike marries Fabio. Carol's three daughters would then have only step-parents and no biological parents left.
Well there is another possibility.

4. Mike dies and Carol marries Fabio and Fabio adopts all six kids. Carol then has a midlife crises from dealing with all those kids goes crazy and runs off to Bora Bora with Shemp. Fabio marries Aileen (who unbeknownst to Fabio is a serial killer and killed Mike) and then Marcia, Greg, Jan, Peter, Cindy and Bobby all have two step parents. Of course that presupposes that no one in Mike or Carols family try to adopt the kids but that's a different story. It turns out Mike and Carol were originally Episcopalian but Fabio was Roman Catholic although before marrying Carol he converts to Judaism. Fabio and Carol manage to reconcile the differences in faith. Shemp is a godless pagan Christian missionary who secretly wants to convert the Bora Borans and Aileen is a Satanist.
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Old 11th June 2019, 12:53 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
Nonsense. We see life depends on water, which means, gosh, life depends on water.

[END]
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Old 11th June 2019, 04:20 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
Is everything a non-sequitor or post hoc fallacy with you? There is nothing that makes these things a response. It also does not follow that it is wiser to believe that a place that you can ONLY IMAGINE exists.

I IMAGINE thet I will win the lottery. That doesn't mean I will. That you can IMAGINE 50 virgins doesn't mean they will be there for you. Personally, I prefer a woman who knows what she's doing.
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Old 11th June 2019, 04:25 PM   #227
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Demand evidence

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That you can IMAGINE 50 virgins doesn't mean they will be there for you. Personally, I prefer a woman who knows what she's doing.

I’d describe my idea of heaven but I’m pretty sure it would violate the forum’s rules against obscenity. By OP’s “logic” this means it’s reasonable for me to believe this afterlife will actually happen for me, just because I wish it.

The Law of Attraction is a fascinating bit of mythology.
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Old 11th June 2019, 06:59 PM   #228
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1. I have a desire to wish all cats living in my area to be dead. They are keeping me awake with the constant yowling at night.

2. So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.


This is "Emre Thinking"!
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Old 11th June 2019, 07:07 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Is

I IMAGINE thet I will win the lottery. That doesn't mean I will. T.
No, you don't win the lottery. There's a lottery. And you want it because it exists.

You want to drink water because there is water. But that doesn't mean you can drink water, you might not get it.
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Old 11th June 2019, 07:13 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
1. I have a desire to wish "!
No, I'm not talking about realizing your desire.

You crave what exists.

Healthy and natural desires are directed towards what already exists.
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Old 11th June 2019, 09:23 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, you don't win the lottery. There's a lottery. And you want it because it exists.

You want to drink water because there is water. But that doesn't mean you can drink water, you might not get it.
Doh, that's the point. The presence of water is irrelevant to whether we desire it. Which is what you first said.

But your post is nonsensical. It seems as if you are contradicting your previous post. I highly recommend taking courses in logic and critical thinking. It might help you to produce syllogisms without fallacies.
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Old 12th June 2019, 02:23 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You crave what exists.

This thread contains numerous examples proving you wrong on that claim.

The cornerstone of your “Law of Attraction” manner of asserting the existence of paradise has been blown to atoms. The atoms have them been shattered into helium.
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Old 12th June 2019, 03:29 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, I'm not talking about realizing your desire.

You crave what exists.

Healthy and natural desires are directed towards what already exists.
Please do not edit my words to be something else. That is VERY rude.

And what a silly comment you made. All 6 billion people on Earth crave all sorts of different thing at different times. Some of these are real, some are entirely imaginary. There is not connection whatever between craving something and that something being real.

You crave for the certainty that the Quran is true. You crave for that to be true so much that you now refuse to accept that it could be just a simple book of bad poetry and war stories written by a semi-literate desert people 1200 years ago.

Your craving for the Quran to be true is worse than a drug addict craving drugs. The drug addict knows the drugs are harming them. You refuse to even allow the idea of questioning the Quran even one little bit. Your addiction to this obsession has blinded you to the truth. Allah is probably very sad about that, you know.

By the way, do you believe in unicorns?
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Old 12th June 2019, 05:51 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, I'm not talking about realizing your desire.
Except that's what you cited as the promise of paradise in the Qur'an. If we want it, it allegedly already exists in paradise. But then you were unable to reconcile that with all the Qur'an references to paraidse being in the future tense. As such you were unable to differentiate your claim from mere wish fulfillment.

Quote:
You crave what exists.
Numerous counterexamples have been given. Simply repeating your claim doesn't overcome that refutation.

Quote:
Healthy and natural desires are directed towards what already exists.
Does that mean to say the existence of the thing wished for is a test for whether the desire was appropriate? You already pointed out such things as disease and pestilence. Does their existence justify someone who might wish disease and pestilence on his enemy? Or do you mean this statement to apply to paradise, in which case how does it escape being merely circular reasoning? "Oh, you wanted a never-ending supply of single-malt Scotch? Sorry, that's not healthy or natural, so you don't get it. But here's a bunch of virgins to be your sex slaves. That's natural and healthy, so it's allowed."

None of your statements of late make any sense. It's meaningless twaddle.
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Old 12th June 2019, 05:59 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
By the way, do you believe in unicorns?
I'm half Scottish, so I half believe in them. And what I crave is half an ounce of very fine Scotch at the end of the day, which my doctor assures me has a negligible effect on my health and which the laws of my land assure me does not produce a legally cognizable impairment. But for some moralistic reason, the Qur'an informs me that it is against Allah's wishes and therefore will not be available in paradise. Emre now assures me it's because my wishes are neither healthy nor natural. I say Emre and Allah and the Qur'an are full of crap. I side with the unicorns.
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Old 12th June 2019, 06:52 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, not believing in God is an act of faith in your believing world. So atheism is a belief.

and It's a superstition.
Lack of belief is not a belief, no matter how many times you deny it.

I know you "believer" types want to make everyone as guilty of bad thinking as you in order to equivocate, but this isn't our first rodeo.
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Old 12th June 2019, 06:53 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
God is real.

(snip)

I've been sharing some of the evidence for a year and a half in forum.
Quoting religious passages isn't sharing evidence. Otherwise I'd quote Star Wars to prove that the Force exists.

You have to do better.
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Old 12th June 2019, 06:54 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
A - You believe I'm telling the truth.

B - You don 't believe I' m telling the truth.

Both options are your thought action. Both faith.
That's not what faith is, and even if it were it wouldn't be what superstition is. You simply don't know the words you're using. But as I said above, it serves your purpose.
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Old 12th June 2019, 08:49 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
I'm half Scottish, so I half believe in them. And what I crave is half an ounce of very fine Scotch at the end of the day, which my doctor assures me has a negligible effect on my health and which the laws of my land assure me does not produce a legally cognizable impairment. But for some moralistic reason, the Qur'an informs me that it is against Allah's wishes and therefore will not be available in paradise. Emre now assures me it's because my wishes are neither healthy nor natural. I say Emre and Allah and the Qur'an are full of crap. I side with the unicorns.
Well, there is the crux of it. Who does one listen to? A doctor who attended years of medical school or what an illiterate pedophile said that God told him that drinking was forbidden?

My question to Emre is why would anyone other than Mohammad believe he was talking to God through an angel? I get Mohammad thinking he was as he was the one who supposedly had this experience. But Emre didn't have the experience and neither did any of his fellow Muslims.

So Emre, why do you believe the Quran any more than say Kahlil Gibran or Shakespeare? Why believe that old book than a doctor?


BTW, EMRE, I ask Christians the same thing about their Bible.
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Old 12th June 2019, 09:07 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Doh, that's the point. The presence of water is irrelevant to whether we desire it. Which is what you first said.

But your post is nonsensical. It seems as if you are contradicting your previous post. I highly recommend taking courses in logic and critical thinking. It might help you to produce syllogisms without fallacies.

No, I've said the same thing from the beginning. But maybe Google Translate may have used different terms when translating my sentences into English.
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