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Old 22nd November 2012, 07:40 PM   #1
JoeTheJuggler
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Chambliss disses Norquist Pledge

Three cheers for a GOP Senator finally renouncing the Norquist Pledge.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...dge/?hpt=hp_t1

Quote:
"I care more about my country than I do about a 20-year-old pledge," Sen. Saxby Chambliss told Georgia television station WMAZ, a CNN affiliate, on Wednesday. "If we do it his way, then we'll continue in debt and I just have a disagreement with him about that."

<snip>

Asked if Chambliss is concerned Norquist may use his resources to combat a re-election bid, the senator said, "In all likelihood, yes."

"But I don't worry about that because I care too much about my country," he said. "I care a lot more about it than I do Grover Norquist."
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Old 22nd November 2012, 08:04 PM   #2
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Good for Chambliss. Really, kudos.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 08:05 PM   #3
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Hopefully he doesn't get primaried out because of it.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 08:06 PM   #4
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Knock me over with a feather. Good job Senator.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 08:38 PM   #5
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That pledge is 20 years old!?
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Old 22nd November 2012, 08:47 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
That pledge is 20 years old!?
Norquist actually came up with it as a child, something he's touted as giving it more validity for some odd reason.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 09:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Norquist actually came up with it as a child, something he's touted as giving it more validity for some odd reason.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 09:30 PM   #8
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It's about time, and it's only a start.

I'd like to see 40 more Senators and 238 more Representatives publicly renounce this pledge and get to the task of negotiating in good faith for the good of the country.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 09:40 PM   #9
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"I care a lot more about it than I do Grover Norquist" could be an effective attack against pols who signed the pledge, but "no more taxes" is such a populist position that the voters may not be that easily swayed against it.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 11:21 PM   #10
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Yeah, good for Chambliss. But the guy has a large, permanent stain on his character after what he did to Max Cleland.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 11:29 PM   #11
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Glad to hear it and I hope that more representatives choose to represent their people rather than their party (the two don't often meet especially when it comes to making harder decisions)
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Old 22nd November 2012, 11:35 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Norquist actually came up with it as a child, something he's touted as giving it more validity for some odd reason.
Did Grover ever actually cease to be a child?
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Old 22nd November 2012, 11:42 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Hopefully he doesn't get primaried out because of it.
Ideal outcome would be that Grover throws a nasty and public tantrum, primaries the Senator out in favor of a full-retard teabagger and gets his ass handed to him. Might teach the jerks who let him intimdate them that he can't help them any more.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 06:46 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
Ideal outcome would be that Grover throws a nasty and public tantrum, primaries the Senator out in favor of a full-retard teabagger and gets his ass handed to him. Might teach the jerks who let him intimdate them that he can't help them any more.
The lesson would be clearer if the Senator handed him his ass in the primary fight? Losing the primary to a full-retard teabagger would send the wrong message.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 06:55 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bob Klase View Post
The lesson would be clearer if the Senator handed him his ass in the primary fight? Losing the primary to a full-retard teabagger would send the wrong message.
You seem to be working from the assumption that they learned something this time around. They can blame Willard for losing the White House and the rape guys for not getting back the Senate. That anybody still takes Bachmann and the MILF seriously raises the question as to whether they are even educable.

To see the moderates punish the GOP for kow-towing to Grover might end his career.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 07:41 AM   #16
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I'll be damned, Chambliss really did that? Our right-wing looney himself?

Huh. I guess someone keeps his ear closer to the ground than I'd thought.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 08:13 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by remirol View Post
I'll be damned, Chambliss really did that? Our right-wing looney himself?

Huh. I guess someone keeps his ear closer to the ground than I'd thought.
Grover didn't do himself any favors when he suggested that Romney would be his little bitch and it didn't matter what Romney believed, knew or was proposing. Ironically enough he was doing that in support of Romney and might even have thought he was doing him a service!

Incidentally, Mea culpa. I hope you cleaned up in the pennny-ante political futures market!
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Old 23rd November 2012, 12:48 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
You seem to be working from the assumption that they learned something this time around. They can blame Willard for losing the White House and the rape guys for not getting back the Senate. That anybody still takes Bachmann and the MILF seriously raises the question as to whether they are even educable.
If you mean Palin, technically she's a G-MILF. You'll have to get in line behind Skwisgaar Skwigelf.

Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
To see the moderates punish the GOP for kow-towing to Grover might end his career.
On no!
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Old 23rd November 2012, 02:48 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Hopefully he doesn't get primaried out because of it.
He needs to run as a democrat since that what he's become.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 02:59 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
He needs to run as a democrat since that what he's become.
Seriously?
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Old 23rd November 2012, 03:00 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
He needs to run as a democrat since that what he's become.
That's hilarious Al, whatta sense of humor! Don't ever change, no matter what century it is you find yourself in.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 03:40 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
He needs to run as a democrat since that what he's become.
It was only a matter of time before someone cried "RINO" about this. Thanks for being a typical Conservative, it helps me realize that Republicans are so predictable.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 07:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
He needs to run as a democrat since that what he's become.

M'kay. Let me ask you this: do you think commitment to the Norquist Pledge is defensible in the context of negotiations to avoid the fiscal cliff?

Ad I've pointed out repeatedly, refusing to accept Obama's offer on extending the tax cuts (where he has offered to extend the Bush tax cuts for all households with under $250K income, and even leaving the cuts in place on the first $250K of income for those who earn more than that) means accepting the consequence of refusing that offer, that all the Bush tax cuts would expire. Even if you are ideologically opposed to increasing tax rates (and you count the sunsetting of a temporary tax cut as a "tax increase), sticking to the Pledge means even greater tax increases than accepting Obama's offer.

Is the only reason a Republican in this lame duck Congress should reject the compromise Obama is offering fealty to party?
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Old 23rd November 2012, 09:28 PM   #24
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Of course, the Right Wing blogosphere has reacted with class.
Quote:
Immediately labeled "worthless" and "a liar" on the website Tea Party Nation, Chambliss symbolizes the political conundrum facing GOP leaders after President Barack Obama's re-election.
***
Phillips also called Chambliss the worst RINO -- Republican In Name Only -- in Washington, citing an acronym that conservatives use for those they consider to be sell-out politicians.

"If you are a worthless Republican politician and you want some good press from the liberal media," Phillips wrote, "all you have to do now days is say you are considering abandoning your pledge not to raise taxes."
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Old 23rd November 2012, 10:56 PM   #25
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Republicans need to compromise, but compromise should mean accepting smaller-than-ideal cuts in government spending, not raising taxes on the producers. We need to cut food stamps, medicaid, and in the "Earned" Income Tax Credit. If we're going to raise taxes, then Republicans should agree to a hike on payroll taxes... maybe increase the cap so people in the lower six-figures do not mistake themselves for their betters. I have more ideas, but I seem to have misplaced my monocle...
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Old 24th November 2012, 01:24 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
... not raising taxes on the producers...
How would you identify "producers" in the tax code? Is a dish washer a producer? A programmer? The President of the Red Cross? A marijuana grower? A tugboat captain? A first-responder?

Seems to be a pretty tough call.
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Old 24th November 2012, 04:07 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
He needs to run as a democrat since that what he's become.
And it's this sort of thinking that will doom the Republican party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxby_C...groups_ratings
On abortion issues, the ratings given Chambliss as of 2007 by National Right to Life Committee and NARAL Pro-Choice America identify him as having an anti-abortion voting record. The National Right to Life Committee gave him a 100% rating, while NARAL Pro-Choice America gave him a 0% rating.[27][28]

On 2nd Amendment issues, in 2008, the NRA gave Chambliss an "A+" rating and the NRA also endorsed him.[29][30]

On abortion issues, the ratings given Chambliss as of 2007 by National Right to Life Committee and NARAL Pro-Choice America identify him as having an anti-abortion voting record. The National Right to Life Committee gave him a 100% rating, while NARAL Pro-Choice America gave him a 0% rating.[27][28]

On 2nd Amendment issues, in 2008, the NRA gave Chambliss an "A+" rating and the NRA also endorsed him.[29][30]

On agricultural issues, the American Farm Bureau gave Chambliss its "Friend of the Farm Bureau" award throughout his service in the U.S. Senate.[31]

On economic issues including voting on the national budget, national spending, and taxes, in 2007, the National Tax Limitation Committee gave Chambliss a 90% rating,[32] and the group Americans for Tax Reform gave him a 100% rating.[33]

On civil liberties and civil rights issues, in 2007, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) gave him a 17% rating,[34] and the NAACP gave him a 27% rating.[35] The Human Rights Campaign gave him a 0% rating for 2005-2006[36] and a 20% rating for 2007-2008.[37]

On education issues, in 2008, the Center for Education Reform, gave Chambliss a score of 9 out of 9, and called him a "real reformer",[38] while the National Education Association gave him an "F" in 2007.[39]

On organized labor issues, in 2007 the AFL-CIO gave Chambliss a 11% rating,[40] and the International Foodservice Distributors Association gave him an 85% rating.[41]

On environmental issues, in 2003 the League of Conservation Voters gave Chambliss a 0% rating.[42]
These are largely the same ratings that "RINO" John McCain gets from many of the same groups.
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Old 24th November 2012, 06:57 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
If we're going to raise taxes, then Republicans should agree to a hike on payroll taxes... maybe increase the cap so people in the lower six-figures do not mistake themselves for their betters.
Actually, the automatic expiration of the Obama payroll tax cut ("Making Work Pay") is part of the fiscal cliff too. And by Norquist Pledge reasoning, they must oppose ANY tax increase at all, including this one.

However, they will reject the deal Obama is offering that includes the extension of very nearly all the current tax cuts because it will also allow for marginal tax rates on income over $250K to go back to what the rate for that portion of income was before the Bush tax cuts.

Again, fealty to their Pledge ends up shooting themselves in their own foot. That is, they'll end up going against the very ideology that calls for the Pledge in the name of the Pledge.

ETA: And based on the backlash Chambliss is getting over this, that is exactly the absurd black-and-white thinking we're dealing with. People are saying that renouncing the Pledge (and considering accepting an offer than gives you at least 90% of what you want wrt taxes) is the same as lying to the taxpayers.
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Old 24th November 2012, 07:10 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler View Post
ETA: And based on the backlash Chambliss is getting over this, that is exactly the absurd black-and-white thinking we're dealing with. People are saying that renouncing the Pledge (and considering accepting an offer than gives you at least 90% of what you want wrt taxes) is the same as lying to the taxpayers.
Yeah, speaking as a Resident Victim, declaring Chambliss a RINO is lunacy, and primarying him might well hand a senate seat in Georgia to a Demmycrat.
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Old 24th November 2012, 07:53 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner View Post
And it's this sort of thinking that will doom the Republican party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxby_C...groups_ratings
On abortion issues, the ratings given Chambliss as of 2007 by National Right to Life Committee and NARAL Pro-Choice America identify him as having an anti-abortion voting record. The National Right to Life Committee gave him a 100% rating, while NARAL Pro-Choice America gave him a 0% rating.[27][28]

On 2nd Amendment issues, in 2008, the NRA gave Chambliss an "A+" rating and the NRA also endorsed him.[29][30]

On abortion issues, the ratings given Chambliss as of 2007 by National Right to Life Committee and NARAL Pro-Choice America identify him as having an anti-abortion voting record. The National Right to Life Committee gave him a 100% rating, while NARAL Pro-Choice America gave him a 0% rating.[27][28]

On 2nd Amendment issues, in 2008, the NRA gave Chambliss an "A+" rating and the NRA also endorsed him.[29][30]

On agricultural issues, the American Farm Bureau gave Chambliss its "Friend of the Farm Bureau" award throughout his service in the U.S. Senate.[31]

On economic issues including voting on the national budget, national spending, and taxes, in 2007, the National Tax Limitation Committee gave Chambliss a 90% rating,[32] and the group Americans for Tax Reform gave him a 100% rating.[33]

On civil liberties and civil rights issues, in 2007, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) gave him a 17% rating,[34] and the NAACP gave him a 27% rating.[35] The Human Rights Campaign gave him a 0% rating for 2005-2006[36] and a 20% rating for 2007-2008.[37]

On education issues, in 2008, the Center for Education Reform, gave Chambliss a score of 9 out of 9, and called him a "real reformer",[38] while the National Education Association gave him an "F" in 2007.[39]

On organized labor issues, in 2007 the AFL-CIO gave Chambliss a 11% rating,[40] and the International Foodservice Distributors Association gave him an 85% rating.[41]

On environmental issues, in 2003 the League of Conservation Voters gave Chambliss a 0% rating.[42]
These are largely the same ratings that "RINO" John McCain gets from many of the same groups.

It's a kind of "One Drop" litmus test for right-wingers.

If there is any basic plank of tea-bagger conservatism that you don't fully embrace then you must be a dirty RINO. It doesn't matter how much else you support or how strongly.
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Old 24th November 2012, 07:59 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
It's a kind of "One Drop" litmus test for right-wingers.

If there is any basic plank of tea-bagger conservatism that you don't fully embrace then you must be a dirty RINO. It doesn't matter how much else you support or how strongly.
Most of those things don't matter so much. If a Tea Party guy voted for environmental legislation, he might get a withering glance, but not this kind of over-the-top rage. There is really only one issue that they lose their marbles over, and that is taxes. Immigration might be a close second, but that might change soon.
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Old 24th November 2012, 08:12 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
Most of those things don't matter so much. If a Tea Party guy voted for environmental legislation, he might get a withering glance, but not this kind of over-the-top rage. There is really only one issue that they lose their marbles over, and that is taxes. Immigration might be a close second, but that might change soon.

'Til the next primary, mebbe. Then it would come back to haunt him.

I don't think there's a conservative political icon of the entire past century who could survive a modern Republican primary unless they were an incumbent. And even that isn't proving to be much protection. Every one of them is tarred with some sort of unforgivable transgression to today's right-wing ideology.
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Old 24th November 2012, 08:31 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by remirol View Post
Yeah, speaking as a Resident Victim, declaring Chambliss a RINO is lunacy, and primarying him might well hand a senate seat in Georgia to a Demmycrat.
I was going to name a number of situations in '010 and '012 where that decision cost Republicans the Senate, but I realized it would be easier to name one example in the Senate where it worked out for them - Ted Cruz.
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Old 24th November 2012, 08:38 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
It's a kind of "One Drop" litmus test for right-wingers.

If there is any basic plank of tea-bagger conservatism that you don't fully embrace then you must be a dirty RINO. It doesn't matter how much else you support or how strongly.
The most ironic part of this sad state of affairs is that Republican hagiography elevates to Conservolympus a number of leaders and candidates who would be considered RINOs in todays wingnut party. If Senators Chambliss and McCain are RINOs, then Republicans are confining themselves to the wilderness that Democrats went through from 1968 until the mid-80s*.

* Jimmy Carter doesn't count because he was a moderate Southern Democrat who caught fire with the "With God On Our Side" crowd that the Republicans have, at least on the national level, used and abused for three decades.
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Old 24th November 2012, 09:37 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
He needs to run as a democrat since that what he's become.
What if everyone in the GOP was a RINO? What if it was all just a dream?
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Old 24th November 2012, 10:34 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner View Post
I was going to name a number of situations in '010 and '012 where that decision cost Republicans the Senate, but I realized it would be easier to name one example in the Senate where it worked out for them - Ted Cruz.
Didn't really make a difference. The Republican would have won the Senate election in Texas if they'd run an armidillo. The guy he beat in the primary was just as conservative as Cruz.
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Old 24th November 2012, 12:01 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
How would you identify "producers" in the tax code? Is a dish washer a producer? A programmer? The President of the Red Cross? A marijuana grower? A tugboat captain? A first-responder?

Seems to be a pretty tough call.
I'll loan you my copy of The Fountainhead. I've highlited the most important parts.

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And by Norquist Pledge reasoning, they must oppose ANY tax increase at all, including this one.
I'm pretty sure Norquist said allowing tax cuts to expire does not violate the pledge.

ETA: http://www.nationaljournal.com/norqu...-hike-20111201

Congress and the President have a tough job, but I think by following my suggestions, they can balance the budget on the backs of the poor.
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Old 24th November 2012, 12:12 PM   #38
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I get it Cain. You're just yanking chains. Have fun.
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Old 24th November 2012, 12:28 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
I get it Cain. You're just yanking chains. Have fun.
Yep. He's a master of Poe-try.
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Old 24th November 2012, 03:20 PM   #40
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Is this the same chicken-hawk Saxby "I got a bum knee" Chambliss that had the horrific commercials questioning Max Cleland's patriotism? If so, he can still go suck an egg.

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