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Tags cat issues , cats , pet issues

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Old 24th June 2013, 05:34 PM   #121
mgidm86
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the impact that outdoor cats have on other people. Then again, I'm not so surprised because so many people allow their cats to roam free in my neighborhood.

I live in an urban area and have found dead birds that have been literally torn apart in my yard, with feathers all over my veggie garden, even inside my greenhouse. Yum. The birds aren't usually eaten. I also don't like cat poop in my yard. I hate inadvertently picking up your cats poop when I'm gardening. It contains, among other things, Toxoplasmosis. Who knows what else cats pick up while roaming through garbage cans and killing and eating wildlife? I also can hear cats fighting in the middle of the night sometimes.

Your cat does not belong in my yard. Suppose dog owners acted in the same manner?

Someone provided a link earlier about the billions of birds and other animals killed every year in the US by cats. Here is a different article I found on a cat website, calling for cat owners to be more responsible because of this:

http://www.pawsforreaction.com/feral....hwEF1BJK.dpbs

When you're talking about ethics, please think of people too. Programs like TNR (Trap Neuter and Return) do not consider the well being of people, or the cats themselves for that matter. Outdoor cats do not usually die of old age. More likely they will be poisoned, eaten, hit by automobiles, die of exposure, feline diseases, or general injuries.

Just offering a different perspective to this discussion.
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Old 24th June 2013, 06:08 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Usually it's my cats that do the etching. On the furniture.
Could be worse.



They could be etching your face.
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Old 24th June 2013, 06:18 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by schplurg View Post
<snip>

I live in an urban area and have found dead birds that have been literally torn apart in my yard, with feathers all over my veggie garden, even inside my greenhouse. Yum. The birds aren't usually eaten.

<snip>

I bet they ate most of the good parts.

When you eat a banana do you always eat the peel?
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Old 24th June 2013, 07:52 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by schplurg View Post
When you're talking about ethics, please think of people too. Programs like TNR (Trap Neuter and Return) do not consider the well being of people, or the cats themselves for that matter. Outdoor cats do not usually die of old age. More likely they will be poisoned, eaten, hit by automobiles, die of exposure, feline diseases, or general injuries.
There is a difference in thinking that the balance of interests comes to a different conclusion and not considering other interests at all.

Linky.
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Old 24th June 2013, 09:12 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
Could be worse.

They could be etching your face.
It has happened. The day I put an armrest cover on my couch, 20-pound Moxie did his usual intermediate leap from the floor to the armrest (intending to land on the back of the couch.) The cover slipped, and trying to get purchase he grabbed my forehead because I happened to be napping on the couch at the time. Talk about rude awakenings.

I was not angry, actually laughed because it was so absurd, and an accident. I have a couple neatly spaced scars on my forehead to attest to it.
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Old 25th June 2013, 06:17 AM   #126
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Those scars were no doubt etched in place. And finally we arrive at the topic of the thread: the etchics of keeping cats.
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Old 25th June 2013, 06:34 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by IXP View Post
First, a little history that has prompted me to post this thread.

My wife and I live on a busy road in the city, but with a bit of forest behind us. A stray cat had been hanging out in our back yard, most likely because we feed birds. Eventually, on a very cold day, it literally begged us to let it in the house. So we now had a pet cat. Naturally, this cat was an outdoor cat, choosing to spend much of his time roaming. And, as is the fate of outdoor cats, he was killed by a car after we had kept him for about 6 years.

With my wife in mourning, we decided to take in another cat from a shelter. This one, we originally kept inside, but she begged to go out every time we went near a door. Eventually, Mrs. IXP took her out on a leash, which did not work very well, then eventually let the cat out while she was working in the garden, and it stuck around. Then one day it disappeared. We found it the next day in our backyard shed, injured, presumably by being hit by a car. (We are saving the cat at great expense.)

So, I started thinking about the ethical dilemma about letting the cat out or keeping it inside. Both of our cats clearly preferred to go outside. So if we kept them inside, we were putting our desires (to keep the cat and birds alive) above those of the cat.

I am beginning to think it is unethical to keep cats, at least for someone who lives in a place where letting them outside is too dangerous.

Thoughts on the matter?

IXP
The other day I read where cats kill billions of birds and other small animals every year.
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Old 25th June 2013, 06:48 AM   #128
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Another possible downside of outdoor cats: I read recently that the Scottish wildcat, a very rare breed, might soon become extinct, as it would be bred out by other varieties.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-22610869
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Old 25th June 2013, 06:54 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by commandlinegamer View Post
Another possible downside of outdoor cats: I read recently that the Scottish wildcat, a very rare breed, might soon become extinct, as it would be bred out by other varieties.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-22610869
To say nothing of the devastation felis domesticus has wrought on Australia's native fauna.
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Old 25th June 2013, 06:59 AM   #130
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Rescue cats are the bestest!
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Old 25th June 2013, 07:54 AM   #131
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Good morning.
The place I used to work had a large and ever changing group of cats. Momma lived to at least 18. Her son Buster was 16 and still kicking. I adobted one, (Folly) after he went to the vet because he was faking an injury to his foot. Turns out he just liked to be carried around by everyone. When at the vet it was determined he had FIV. Considering he was very aggressive to other animal it would not have been in his best interest to let him out again. After several month of trying to get him adopted with no success, I brought him home. I do not and never have let any of my cats outside unless they were on
a leash. He made a purfect transition into a house cat. He was ~16 at the time. At 18 he developed diabetes and needed insulin shots twice a day. He lived to be just over 20. He loved to look out the back door window at squirrels and rabbits and his little teeth would chatter but other then the he was quite happy being indoors. I'm pretty sure he was never inside before because everything seemed like it was the first time he encountered it. After about a week of getting used to it he fell in love with TV.
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Old 25th June 2013, 03:21 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
The other day I read where cats kill billions of birds and other small animals every year.

Wow, those cats must be some kind of hyperactive over-achievers. I don't think I've ever known a cat capable of killing more than 200,000 birds and small animals per week.
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Old 25th June 2013, 03:26 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Brian-M View Post
Wow, those cats must be some kind of hyperactive over-achievers. I don't think I've ever known a cat capable of killing more than 200,000 birds and small animals per week.
While still finding the time to bring some home and hide them around the house as "surprise presents" for the humans.
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Old 28th June 2013, 03:25 PM   #134
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you people ''think'' you own a cat

cats think they own you

some cats want to be inside
others can't stand to be in a house for very long
even in cold or rain they cry to be let out

herding cats is a lost cause
they go when and where they want
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Old 28th June 2013, 07:27 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Rescue cats are the bestest!
My cats won't tolerate newbies. I've tried, no dice. So I rescue, quarantine, and find new homes. Difficult, but rewarding.
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Old 28th June 2013, 07:39 PM   #136
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Quoting the below for truth and because it deserves to be repeated:

Originally Posted by schplurg View Post
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the impact that outdoor cats have on other people. Then again, I'm not so surprised because so many people allow their cats to roam free in my neighborhood.

I live in an urban area and have found dead birds that have been literally torn apart in my yard, with feathers all over my veggie garden, even inside my greenhouse. Yum. The birds aren't usually eaten. I also don't like cat poop in my yard. I hate inadvertently picking up your cats poop when I'm gardening. It contains, among other things, Toxoplasmosis. Who knows what else cats pick up while roaming through garbage cans and killing and eating wildlife? I also can hear cats fighting in the middle of the night sometimes.

Your cat does not belong in my yard. Suppose dog owners acted in the same manner?

Someone provided a link earlier about the billions of birds and other animals killed every year in the US by cats. Here is a different article I found on a cat website, calling for cat owners to be more responsible because of this:

http://www.pawsforreaction.com/feral....hwEF1BJK.dpbs

When you're talking about ethics, please think of people too. Programs like TNR (Trap Neuter and Return) do not consider the well being of people, or the cats themselves for that matter. Outdoor cats do not usually die of old age. More likely they will be poisoned, eaten, hit by automobiles, die of exposure, feline diseases, or general injuries.

Just offering a different perspective to this discussion.
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Old 29th June 2013, 12:49 AM   #137
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I live in an urban area (kinda), and foxes and coyotes and raccoons and skunks still share the same space. Might not be always cats.
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Old 29th June 2013, 03:13 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
This is the real ethical problem in my view.

Cats are an African predator protected by humans in an alien environment and allowed to cause utter destruction.
Meanwhile, the RSPB thinks otherwise.
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Old 29th June 2013, 04:06 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Outdoor cats live on average to about 2-3 years (will vary by region). Indoor cats will live on average 12-15 years, and living up to 20 years is common. And those years will be healthier and less dangerous (diseases, hunger, cars, dogs, coyotes, other cats, hawks, parasites, etc.). That is enough for me to say indoor is the way to go right there.
Wow! Is it really that dangerous in Neverland? The average life expectancy for cats in the UK is 14 years, and keeping them solely indoors here is very much the exception.
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Old 29th June 2013, 04:14 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Wow! Is it really that dangerous in Neverland? The average life expectancy for cats in the UK is 14 years, and keeping them solely indoors here is very much the exception.
Lots of people seem to conflate figures for feral cats with outdoor but owned cats. Also the US has predators that we don't have in the UK.
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Old 29th June 2013, 04:15 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
Serena, the cat I have now, is blind so she goes out on a harness and lead for a walk, or I let her into the enclosed back garden. She usually comes running in if the magpies start chattering, or a leaf blows into her face, but she can't sense all the dangers so I have to keep a very close eye on her. She's only a young cat, three years old, and she loves to sit in an open doorway so she can experience the outside world while still being protected in the house. Apparently some blind cats still hunt and even catch prey, but Serena doesn't.

The feline ophthalmologist said her blindness may have been due to her previous owners feeding her on the wrong foods, such as dog food. Whatever the reason, she'll never recover her sight so she'll always need close monitoring.
I think my Respect-o-Meter™ just overloaded.
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Old 29th June 2013, 04:18 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Piggy View Post
My cats won't tolerate newbies. I've tried, no dice. So I rescue, quarantine, and find new homes. Difficult, but rewarding.
Good for you.
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Old 29th June 2013, 04:19 AM   #143
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Companion animals are important for a lot of people.
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Old 29th June 2013, 04:20 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle View Post
If you decide to keep a cat totally indoors, be very careful with their diet and find ways to encourage exercise. Indoors cats are more likely to suffer problems with overweight/obesity than outdoors cats. If I lived in an area where it wasn't safe to let a cat roam (less of a problem in the UK as we don't have the predators), I would go for one of those cat runs linked to in the thread for those reasons.

This is all completely hypothetical for me, as I am allergic to the little buggers.
Plus, they're thinking, "What does wooden woodpecker taste like?!"
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Old 30th June 2013, 01:23 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
This is the real ethical problem in my view.

Cats are an African predator protected by humans in an alien environment and allowed to cause utter destruction.

Mike
Some of us find that much less than disturbing. Out here in farm country, fewer random varmints living in your barn is a good thing. Barn swallows and pigeons can be particularly annoying in places they aren't wanted... not to mention rats and field mice.

When I was a kid I used to pull down swallow nests from the rafters of a barn to feed the hatchlings to a formerly feral cat that befriended me. I have no guilt about it. The closer your proximity to nature, the less you worry about nonsense like "suffering" and "killing" as it pertains to animals. I assure you there was no shortage of swallows around due to this.

Personally, I'd tend to say most folks here at JREF have it backwards, from what I've seen. The "suffering" is often a creatures attempts at fighting for survival, though the odds may be against it. The process seems more ennobling to me than simply snuffing the life out of something that doesn't expect it. Sure, senseless torture can be horrible... but the notion of trying to kill with as little "suffering" as possible seems to me to be also a completely misled view. The correct stance to me would be neither to worry over nor to take pleasure in such things.

Personally, I'd rather have the chance to fight, even if I don't have a real chance of winning when faced with death. I have about as little ability to understand the view of some overly socialized nitwit that hasn't actually been around such things as they do of mine... but that's a different issue.

Sorry, was I rambling again? I sort of went from one subject to another, here. Anyway, I suppose I think a bit more like a primitive than some... I'm quite sure that it is as valid of an ethos as anyone else's, however. This may be particularly true when dealing with animals, in a way. Who the hell are we to impose our contrived social structures and ethical situations in our dealings with animals? Seriously, they are somewhat primitive themselves, no? How the hell can we pretend to have any real empathy with them while holding such beliefs? The two notions contradict, and the result only exposes our bottomless arrogance as a species. Respect other creatures, but in the end, let them fend for themselves as they may and tend to your own affairs. That's my answer to a lot of these sorts of questions.

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Old 1st July 2013, 02:30 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
Quoting the below for truth and because it deserves to be repeated:
Thanks, but it's being ignored anyways. I'll try it again....

Cat owners - please consider other people when you let your animals roam freely!

Quote:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the impact that outdoor cats have on other people. Then again, I'm not so surprised because so many people allow their cats to roam free in my neighborhood.

I live in an urban area and have found dead birds that have been literally torn apart in my yard, with feathers all over my veggie garden, even inside my greenhouse. Yum. The birds aren't usually eaten. I also don't like cat poop in my yard. I hate inadvertently picking up your cats poop when I'm gardening. It contains, among other things, Toxoplasmosis. Who knows what else cats pick up while roaming through garbage cans and killing and eating wildlife? I also can hear cats fighting in the middle of the night sometimes.

Your cat does not belong in my yard. Suppose dog owners acted in the same manner?

Someone provided a link earlier about the billions of birds and other animals killed every year in the US by cats. Here is a different article I found on a cat website, calling for cat owners to be more responsible because of this:

http://www.pawsforreaction.com/feral....hwEF1BJK.dpbs

When you're talking about ethics, please think of people too. Programs like TNR (Trap Neuter and Return) do not consider the well being of people, or the cats themselves for that matter. Outdoor cats do not usually die of old age. More likely they will be poisoned, eaten, hit by automobiles, die of exposure, feline diseases, or general injuries.

Just offering a different perspective to this discussion.
I guess most cat owners don't care - they sure don't seem to. Then again, I could say the same about a lot of dog owners - I catch people with my porch camera letting their dogs crap on my front lawn. Some pick it up, but most look around while their dog does their duty to see if anybody is watching. They don't see my camera I guess. It's hilarious - sort of - seeing people doing something they know they should not be doing, yet doing it anyways. I feel like posting their pictures in my yard.

I do not own a dog and shoveling up smeared dog poop off the lawn is not something I enjoy. I like dogs, I do not like cats, mainly for the above reasons. I don't want either on my property unless I allow it, but dog owners are smart enough to leave their dogs locked up. Why not cats?

Pet owners who let their animals run wild come across as inconsiderate jerks. Just like this person:

Quote:
I bet they ate most of the good parts.

When you eat a banana do you always eat the peel?
Banana is not a vegetable. When I eat strawberries, ya I eat the "peel". I don't like having to pick off the bloody dead bird feathers first. Keep your animals out of my yard, is that so difficult to understand.

Some people put traps in their yards to eliminate the problem? How would you like that?
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Old 1st July 2013, 02:48 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
There is a difference in thinking that the balance of interests comes to a different conclusion and not considering other interests at all.

Linky.
I see your link and raise you:

http://www.hahf.org/awake/tnr-not-working/

And again, how does this program help people? We wouldn't NEED TNR or anything like it if cat owners were responsible with their animals in the first place. The fact that there are so many feral cats is proof that they are not.

More
http://www.hahf.org/wp-content/uploa...Memorandum.pdf

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Old 1st July 2013, 03:01 PM   #148
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Wildlife Society
Problems With TNR


American Bird Conservatory

Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association
Professional, ethical, and legal dilemmas of trap-neuter-release


TNR only helps people who think they are doing the right thing.
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Old 1st July 2013, 05:34 PM   #149
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I have very complex thoughts on pets... I've got a cat I love dearly next to me now, and I am extremely affectionate toward her.

I grew up with another cat, and when she had to be put to sleep when I was 22, I cried, and I don't cry often... years pass between times. I had a dog and I wept when he died too, in 2007. I've loved all of these pets, and when I was younger I even ruined a shirt and walked a couple of miles with a rabbit that had been hit by a car in a vain effort to save it (I was probably 12 or so.)

So I am not heartless about pets and animals...

But at the same time? They are animals at the end of the day. I realize we are too, but the level of consideration they merit compared to humans is just another ballgame entirely... I wouldn't bankrupt myself in better medical care for a pet than I get for myself... I wouldn't fret about whether by owning a cat I was making it more likely to get hit by a car or something...

I try to get my indoor cat some fresh air, take her out on the balcony from time to time, or even short walks in my arms late at night when there aren't cars to freak her out... I even take her for car rides (short ones) occasionally.

She has one of those electric water dishes because she insists on flowing water, she gets expensive organic $1.19 a can soft food because she was throwing up a lot on hard food... I just went on a trip and refused to board her, got a relative from another state to come babysit her...

but thousands in medical bills? or life-shaking moral quandaries about the "ethics" of owning a cat? Never. I simply don't care to that degree.

There has to be a line in the sand where you remember it's an animal, and act accordingly.
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Old 1st July 2013, 08:06 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by schplurg View Post
I see your link and raise you:

http://www.hahf.org/awake/tnr-not-working/

And again, how does this program help people? We wouldn't NEED TNR or anything like it if cat owners were responsible with their animals in the first place. The fact that there are so many feral cats is proof that they are not.

More
http://www.hahf.org/wp-content/uploa...Memorandum.pdf
Um, I'm not sure how your link is part of the discussion or "raises" anything. You made the claim that "Programs like TNR (Trap Neuter and Return) do not consider the well being of people, or the cats themselves for that matter." I replied that it is a balance of interests, and linked to a TNR report that showed that they did consider whether they were affecting the general public, toxoplasmosis, wildlife, and other concerns you listed. They come to a different conclusion about them, but it is unfair to say that they don't care about the issues.

We weren't talking about effectiveness studies, unless I am horribly misreading thing .

As for your paragraph, I don't really follow.

Originally Posted by schplurg View Post
Ah, more of the Usual Suspects . In case this is a continuation from before, I think studying effectiveness is very helpful, but I don't think it has anything to do with your claim that TNR supporters are callous and self-centered.
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Old 1st July 2013, 10:29 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
I have very complex thoughts on pets... I've got a cat I love dearly next to me now, and I am extremely affectionate toward her.

I grew up with another cat, and when she had to be put to sleep when I was 22, I cried, and I don't cry often... years pass between times. I had a dog and I wept when he died too, in 2007. I've loved all of these pets, and when I was younger I even ruined a shirt and walked a couple of miles with a rabbit that had been hit by a car in a vain effort to save it (I was probably 12 or so.)

So I am not heartless about pets and animals...

But at the same time? They are animals at the end of the day. I realize we are too, but the level of consideration they merit compared to humans is just another ballgame entirely... I wouldn't bankrupt myself in better medical care for a pet than I get for myself... I wouldn't fret about whether by owning a cat I was making it more likely to get hit by a car or something...

I try to get my indoor cat some fresh air, take her out on the balcony from time to time, or even short walks in my arms late at night when there aren't cars to freak her out... I even take her for car rides (short ones) occasionally.

She has one of those electric water dishes because she insists on flowing water, she gets expensive organic $1.19 a can soft food because she was throwing up a lot on hard food... I just went on a trip and refused to board her, got a relative from another state to come babysit her...

but thousands in medical bills? or life-shaking moral quandaries about the "ethics" of owning a cat? Never. I simply don't care to that degree.

There has to be a line in the sand where you remember it's an animal, and act accordingly.
I agree completely. Now, I just wish I could get my family to see things the same way. I'm proud of my kids for being compassionate and caring toward lesser creatures, but it really irks me when they want me to spend $$$ that I don't have to take care of an animal at the ultimate expense of one of the people.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 12:05 AM   #152
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I have three cats. There originally were four, but Boots, the friendliest of the four, was stolen.

I don't look at is has "having" or "owning" cats. The term "companion animals" is closer to the mark, but the reality is that this is their home, the only home they've ever known.

I got The Four Furry Furies when they were very small, dutifully had them spayed, neutered and shot. They survived the shooting but did growl at me afterwards for a few days.

Bad human.

My cats are indoor-outdoor kitties. There are cat-doors front and back which they have access to 365 days a year. I'm looking after my neighbour's cat Buddy, who gets to be an indoor-outdoor cat when he's staying at my place. For him it's a cat-vacation.

Now, I live in a village in rural Saskatchewan, which is an ideal situation for felines that have been bred for a very long time to be domestic animals. Yes, they can survive in the wild, but don't have a good time of it. Yes, I am aware of cat colonies in various places, but I am also aware of the short life-expectancy and high level of predation.

Some cats have the street-smarts to be city cats. I lived in East Vancouver many years ago, half a block from the highway. We had a cat who was an indoor-outdoor cat who fared very well. Regardless, we were well-aware that cats sometimes got run over, particularly at night. But we accepted the risk because it was deemed an acceptable risk by cat owners, or rather it was just part of having a cat.

Attitudes change over time. When I was young guys used to get their dogs together to fight. It was just a thing guys did.

Cats are far more intelligent than people realise. My whitish cat Arthur watched me get in and out of the car I bought a few months ago, then systematically went around the vehicle trying the door handles. The physics of the situation didn't allow for enough leverage for him to pull the doors open, but all of my cats know how to open doors- the lever- and pull-type. My grandmother's old cat Cheeky did get the hang of some of the knob-type doors on our old house, however. It was "hang" quite literally: he'd hang on the knob, work it around, and jerk the back door open.

My cat Arthur was watching me pick apples a few years back. He obviously thought what I was doing looked like fun, so he climbed up onto the branch and proceeded to knock a few apples out of the tree, watching them fall (a thing cats seem to like to do. They also push stuff off counters and tables just to watch things fall).

I rescued a kitten a number of year ago. Arthur was so angry when he saw it that he stomped off, knocking over the water dish and the kibble bowl as he stormed out of the kitchen. Another incident involved some guests from England a few years ago. I forget exactly what happened, but my guests stared in amazement as Arthur got his feelings hurt and sulked his way into the house.

I've noticed for many years that cats display self-awareness and sentience, which flies in the teeth of many scientific types that claim otherwise.

Humans, especially those that harm cats for fun, I'm not so sure about.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 12:21 AM   #153
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Oh, yeah, forgot the "ethics" thingy:

Ethics doesn't apply to pet "ownership". People and animals have cohabited for a very long time, and their relationship(s) have evolved over time. As such it's a matter of anthropology, not ethics.

What people are calling ethics here is really what they think and feel about things, which in the scheme of things is irrelevant, in the same manner that people in the future will study anthropology (assuming the field still exists as such), look at how things were, and take it all in on an "all things being equal" basis.

Ethics itself is a dead branch of philosophy that has relevance only to people that attempt to impose it on modern social phenomena such as the law, crime and the penal system. The very reason all three are deficient is all the outdated and corrupt-minded nonsense that is imposed upon these fields.

For their part, cats have ethics, but of the feline sort. My female cat Harlequin proudly showed off a poor vole she'd caught a few days ago. I felt absolutely horrible, watching it try to crawl away using its front legs because its little back was broken, but masked my feelings and dutifully gave Harlequin the praise she craved and deserved.

My point being that there's ethics and how we feel about things, and then there's the way things are.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 07:13 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by schplurg View Post
Thanks, but it's being ignored anyways. I'll try it again....

Cat owners - please consider other people when you let your animals roam freely!

I guess most cat owners don't care - they sure don't seem to. Then again, I could say the same about a lot of dog owners - I catch people with my porch camera letting their dogs crap on my front lawn. Some pick it up, but most look around while their dog does their duty to see if anybody is watching. They don't see my camera I guess. It's hilarious - sort of - seeing people doing something they know they should not be doing, yet doing it anyways. I feel like posting their pictures in my yard.

I do not own a dog and shoveling up smeared dog poop off the lawn is not something I enjoy. I like dogs, I do not like cats, mainly for the above reasons. I don't want either on my property unless I allow it, but dog owners are smart enough to leave their dogs locked up. Why not cats?

Pet owners who let their animals run wild come across as inconsiderate jerks. Just like this person:

Banana is not a vegetable. When I eat strawberries, ya I eat the "peel". I don't like having to pick off the bloody dead bird feathers first. Keep your animals out of my yard, is that so difficult to understand.

Some people put traps in their yards to eliminate the problem? How would you like that?
It wasn't ignored. You assume it was cats, I posted about all the other animals which share my urban environment and could easily and happily have taken a bird and left its bits strewn about. My high school kept ducks, one morning we found a duck scattered across the enclosure because the fox who burrowed into the hillside had dug her way in and munched. It's not always cats.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 07:17 AM   #155
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What exactly is a kept kitty?
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Old 2nd July 2013, 07:25 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by schplurg View Post
Your cat does not belong in my yard. Suppose dog owners acted in the same manner?
many actually does. it is the second time in two month a dog owner with an unleashed dog attacks me (ETA : the dog , not the owner ) and is only restrained by the owner from biting me thru shear luck (and thick jeans). Also in the same span of time a dog owner with an unleashed dog, *jumped* into a garden where a neighbor cat was (the garden was closed but did not have a very hgih barrier/wall) and the dog *killed* the cat. Did the dog owner stay ? no.

I never heard of a cat viciously attacking a passerby. That may exists, but cats rather attacks bird and mouse which is fine by my count. Dog owner on the other hand far more often when they do not have their dog in leash, are responsible for human wounds/attacks, and that can end in death.

If i have to chose between a bird killer, and an animal which potentially attacks me because in both case the owner are idiot, I chose the bird killer thanks.

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Old 2nd July 2013, 09:59 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by schplurg View Post
Thanks, but it's being ignored anyways. I'll try it again....

Cat owners - please consider other people when you let your animals roam freely!

I guess most cat owners don't care - they sure don't seem to. Then again, I could say the same about a lot of dog owners - I catch people with my porch camera letting their dogs crap on my front lawn. Some pick it up, but most look around while their dog does their duty to see if anybody is watching. They don't see my camera I guess. It's hilarious - sort of - seeing people doing something they know they should not be doing, yet doing it anyways. I feel like posting their pictures in my yard.

I do not own a dog and shoveling up smeared dog poop off the lawn is not something I enjoy. I like dogs, I do not like cats, mainly for the above reasons. I don't want either on my property unless I allow it, but dog owners are smart enough to leave their dogs locked up. Why not cats?

Pet owners who let their animals run wild come across as inconsiderate jerks. Just like this person:

Banana is not a vegetable. When I eat strawberries, ya I eat the "peel". I don't like having to pick off the bloody dead bird feathers first. Keep your animals out of my yard, is that so difficult to understand.

Some people put traps in their yards to eliminate the problem? How would you like that?
You know who's primarily to blame for the mass destruction of birds in areas populated by humans?

A: Humans

When the Europeans arrived in the area where I now live, there were enormous flocks of birds. Today, the flocks are tiny, from a few dozen to a few hundred.

That's not because of cats.

It's because WE wiped out their habitat and hunted them.

So forgive me if I don't have any patience for a human whining about how cats kill wildlife. Because if it weren't for us, there would be so much wildlife that the cats couldn't make a dent.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 12:09 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Piggy View Post
You know who's primarily to blame for the mass destruction of birds in areas populated by humans?

A: Humans

When the Europeans arrived in the area where I now live, there were enormous flocks of birds. Today, the flocks are tiny, from a few dozen to a few hundred.

That's not because of cats.

It's because WE wiped out their habitat and hunted them.

So forgive me if I don't have any patience for a human whining about how cats kill wildlife. Because if it weren't for us, there would be so much wildlife that the cats couldn't make a dent.
So because humans screwed up in the past, we shouldn't take steps now to preserve what's left?
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Old 2nd July 2013, 12:26 PM   #159
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I just wanted to add that this thread was my introduction to the construct referred to as a cat run. Loving the idea, considering building one when I get my own place built.

#EDIT: I wonder how difficult it would be to have high grass grow in a cat run. Something for the little beasts to prowl through. If not that, some kind of cat-safe high grass simulant?

Last edited by Mister Earl; 2nd July 2013 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 01:04 PM   #160
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This is a nicely balanced, if a little soft, look at the issue.

Personally I think there is a bigger conservationist debate to be had that includes this, but involves a lot more.
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