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Old 17th February 2018, 09:55 AM   #1
wasapi
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THC and anxiety question

On ISF and in general conversation, I have heard many people say they quit using pot because of the anxiety they experience.

I'm curious about what causes the anxiety and why it is an issue for some people and not others?

(Julia's stupid question #17 on this forum.)
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Old 17th February 2018, 10:11 AM   #2
calebprime
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The overt effects of cannabis (which is only partly THC) vary a lot. THC/CBD balance. Effect over time. Dose-relation. Set and setting. How much you have smoked, or have been smoking lately.

You build up a resistence very quickly, then lots of weed won't get you that "high", subjectively. Massive amounts still get you a little unsteady and sleepy, but not with any particular unusual feelings.

It's still not that dangerous, even with a big resistence.

I'm rather envious of posters here who think they got a "contact" high.

If I've been smokingly chronically for many weeks in a row, I feel crappy the first day I quit, and have been known to smoke the ashtray or the floor.

Second day, I don't want it any more.

Sweats for a month, diminishing, along with loss of appetite for 2-3 days. That goes away. Loss of interest in sex for a week or two. No insomnia -- I can always sleep.

Irritability and no interest in hearing music for a couple of weeks during withdrawal. A good time to double-down on wonkish intellectual pursuits -- not swinish pleasures.

The only way I feel anxious because of weed is that as my frontal control and inhibitions go a bit on holiday, I start to worry that I'm getting demented like my mother.

THAT makes me a little anxious. Otherwise, the anxiety is about feeling a little out-of-control. It's made much worse by being put upon by other people -- say, being forced to jump through someone else's hoops. My whole project in life is trying to be by myself, work in a little sound-proof room. So I'm not trying to be more social.

But hell. It doesn't matter much any more.

Nothin' left to do. No one cares.

Bronchitis will wreck a good weed habit, every time. It happens to me once every few years, and I quit.

It all kind of doesn't matter. My life without weed would be much less pleasurable, much more about arguing and being angry at other people. It's not hard to quit, and not hard to start again.

P.S. David Foster Wallace is both brilliant on the subject and is a drama-queen who exaggerates wildly, if you read __Infinite Jest__.

Weed is not alcohol, which would go without saying, except some people still make that error -- thinking there's some relation.

eta2: Oh, it makes my hyperacusis much more bearable and I startle much less. I'm naturally a very tense person.

Last edited by calebprime; 17th February 2018 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 17th February 2018, 10:33 AM   #3
William Parcher
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LOL OMG. All of that and you didn't even answer Julia's question.
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Old 17th February 2018, 10:36 AM   #4
calebprime
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What causes the anxiety and why is it an issue for some and not others?

--I'm a chronic smoker. Different for beginners.
--I'm a tense person.

--The anxiety is not the same as ordinary anxiety, and it's more about fear of loss of control


the tl;dr version


I read long things, write long things, and intensely dislike the pith. ymmv.

Luchog will be along to help us with the THC/CBD issue.

Last edited by calebprime; 17th February 2018 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 17th February 2018, 10:39 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
...


the tl;dr version


I read long things, write long things, and intensely dislike the pith. ymmv.

...
Typical pot head.
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Old 17th February 2018, 10:40 AM   #6
calebprime
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Nah, actually the best image of weed smokers is still I think some Arabic parable about what different addicts or degenerates do.

The weed smokers fall asleep. That's it.
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Old 17th February 2018, 10:42 AM   #7
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The two-part question is almost entirely dealing with the science.
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Old 17th February 2018, 10:44 AM   #8
calebprime
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Have at it with science, then. It will be toiling in the rear, because it's just an accurate compilation of anecdotes at this point.

Do you have to ask a scientist why something makes you anxious?
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Old 17th February 2018, 10:49 AM   #9
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What causes the anxiety?

Have to start talking about synapses and what anxiety actually is as related to biology. First lay down the science, and then way later slip in some Caleb rambling.
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Old 17th February 2018, 10:56 AM   #10
calebprime
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
What causes the anxiety?

Have to start talking about synapses and what anxiety actually is as related to biology. First lay down the science, and then way later slip in some Caleb rambling.
I checked my post. Take out the parts about withdrawal -- which is relevant to anxiety -- and everything was direct on subject.

But sure: Synapses, just-so stories about evolutionary psychology.

Or, you can ask any vegetable.

We don't have a problem on this forum because of long and rambling posts. We have a problem because of stupid, kneejerk, LOL, logger-style posts.

You want to know something, ask one kind of expert. My experience is consistent with a lot of other people's, and I'm not a teenager.

But, you're right Parcher. This is a lot of information for some people to handle! Wow! It took a minute to read! Durrr!
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Old 17th February 2018, 11:08 AM   #11
William Parcher
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Quote:
Take out the parts about withdrawal -- which is relevant to anxiety -- and everything was direct on subject.
No. Your post describes the experience of pot and symptoms. But she is asking about causes. You didn't address that anywhere.

Reefer makes me anxious that I'm demented like my mother. Ok, but why does cannabis cause that anxiety?
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Old 17th February 2018, 11:29 AM   #12
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I found an answer in less than 30 seconds.

This Is Why Weed Makes Some People Feel Anxious And Paranoid
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Old 17th February 2018, 11:32 AM   #13
calebprime
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I found an answer in less than 30 seconds.

This Is Why Weed Makes Some People Feel Anxious And Paranoid
Sorry, where in the link is that article? I didn't see it, 2 tries.
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Old 17th February 2018, 11:38 AM   #14
calebprime
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
No. Your post describes the experience of pot and symptoms. But she is asking about causes. You didn't address that anywhere.

Reefer makes me anxious that I'm demented like my mother. Ok, but why does cannabis cause that anxiety?
I said that it's the resemblance of loss of frontal controls -- ability to control and martial attention and initiative -- to dementia. If you smoke too much, you have trouble staying on task, not because you're having a good time, but because you have no push.

This didn't bother me as much as now, when I see someone I care about unable to do anything. Suddenly I don't take my own initiative for granted, as much.

Reefer makes most beginners anxious because they're suddently aware of their thoughts seeming out of control. They're reacting to being altered. It's not some dull gloom about being senile.

Julia can synthesize all of this.
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Old 17th February 2018, 11:43 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
Sorry, where in the link is that article? I didn't see it, 2 tries.
Now that's weird. It's the same source but a completely different article than the one I linked to.

Searching for the title of the article "This Is Why Weed Makes Some People Feel Anxious And Paranoid" works
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Old 17th February 2018, 12:03 PM   #16
calebprime
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Now that's weird. It's the same source but a completely different article than the one I linked to.

Searching for the title of the article "This Is Why Weed Makes Some People Feel Anxious And Paranoid" works
https://herb.co/marijuana/news/weed-anxious-paranoid

I found this here. Thanks.
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Old 17th February 2018, 12:23 PM   #17
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It's some science at least

I can't say I've experienced and weed induced paranoia or anxiety in the past 20 years. I used top get it, so I know what people are talking about but I've never experienced any withdrawal symptoms.

Every year, I spend a good chunk of the winter in the tropics ( save this year ) and, funnily enough, in a place that makes Jamaica look like amateur hour, I take a holiday from weed.

No reason really. I cant run any faster, jump any higher or make more intellectual posts it was just something I started back in Thailand in 2003 when they did that huge crackdown.
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Old 18th February 2018, 11:07 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
Thanks for the link. I had been fighting high blood pressure that medicine did not help. After a spell of not using cannabis, I started using it daily. My blood pressure returned to normal.

The paranoia and anxiety? No, though it happened often when I was younger, and I have been curious as to why the change. This, at least in my opinion, is what causes the paranoia;

It took me many years to get comfortable in my own skin, and to really quit caring about other people thought about me,(as well as realizing that they probably didn't think about me much anyway). Age brought out many positive psychological changes, A sense of calm I had never experienced when I was younger.

The experience of getting high changed as well. It is much more enjoyable without the paranoia.
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Old 18th February 2018, 11:55 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
Luchog will be along to help us with the THC/CBD issue.

Not that I'm anything of an expert, but I have made a hobby of keeping up with the studies.

Cannabinoids, like opiates, mimic certain endogenous neurotransmitters, what is known as the Endocannabinoid system. They're responsible for regulating a lot of things, mostly related to cognition and physical activity. One in particular, Anandamide, is partly responsible for the "high" resulting from intense physical activity. It is this neurotransmitter which is mimicked by Tetrahydrocannabinol, aka THC.

The other important endocannabinoid is 2-Arachidonoylglycerol, which is mimicked by Cannabidiol, aka CBD, and is involved in regulating pain and appetite.

Endocannabinoids also assist in the regulation of sleep, and high levels induce REM sleep.

THC has a particularly profound effect on the hippocampus region of the brain, which is why it is associated with short-term memory loss. The hippocampal region is not only associated with learning, but also with anxiety disorder. Profound THC stimulation of this region can increase anxiety for those already prone to it. This appears to be linked to development and sensitivity of the hippocampus, which can vary, which explains why some people are more prone to developing paranoia when ingesting high levels of THC.

By contrast, CBD appears to act as an anxiolytic, although the mechanism is not fully understood, it may do so by acting on some of the pathways that regulate hormones and neurotransmitters, most notably noradrenaline/norepinephrine, which is associated with the "fight or flight" response. Suppressing these neurotransmitters suppressed the anxiety response in general, including that triggered by THC as noted above. So whether ingesting (smoking, eating, vaping) cannabis products will cause "paranoia" in any particular person will depend mainly on three factors: their neurological predisposition to anxiety, environmental factors triggering said predisposition, and the CBD:THC ratio managing the anxiety response.

Some studies have demonstrated that CBD on its own is a fairly effective anxiolytic, as well as showing promise in the mitigation of pain, neurogenic pain in particular. As an aside, it also shows promise in the treatment of chronic inflammation, as well as having a neuroprotective effect and there is some indication it can help treat other neurological disorders such as epilepsy and some sleep disorders.

Understanding of the substances and the mechanisms by which they affect the brain and body is still in its early days, and a lot more study is needed.
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