Old buzzard retired for 20 years says "woke generation" is too lazy to lead business - Page 2

Armitage72 · 24th January 2023, 01:28 PM

The bit about laziness and government benefits reminds me of some of the military science fiction novels I've read by authors like John Ringo. When the evil and cunning Liberals gain control they always start giving the citizens handouts specifically so the public will become helpless and dependent on them so they can hold on to their political power forever. Everything is an evil conspiracy.

wareyin · 24th January 2023, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

You can see what the federal min wage has been in "constant inflation adjusted dollars" in the below linked chart.

https://www.infoplease.com/business/...ates-1955-2021

Note, that it ends in 2021, so take about another 12 or 13% off for 2023 (makes it $3.68 in 1996 dollars by my math). You can see how good the people entering the workforce in the 60's and 70's had it! Late 80's was also pretty ******, it was stuck at $3.35 for years.

Of course, I've now seen McDonalds advertising $13/hr in my area. Target now pays a minimum of $15, as examples.

Heh, I remember working as a teenager at a McDonald's during one of the rare federal minimum wage increases. Our manager, thinking we were stupid and never saw the news, actually bragged to us about how well we were all being treated by him because he gave us a raise. To the new minimum wage. Sadly, at least half of the workforce believed that he personally chose to give us all raises.

Dr. Keith · 24th January 2023, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

I accept the 100x estimate for San Jose real estate prices, but wages have gone up "maybe" 2-3 times in the last 60 years? That's ridiculous. The whole reason prices have gone sky-high in Silicon Valley is because the average pay in the area has skyrocketed as well.

I agree with what you are saying here, but I wonder if the wages of fast food worker have gone up much, even in Silicon Valley. Two to three times may be an exaggeration, but seven to eight may be accurate. The disparity between low end wages in high end wages is more massive now than it has ever been.

qayak · 24th January 2023, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

I agree with what you are saying here, but I wonder if the wages of fast food worker have gone up much, even in Silicon Valley. Two to three times may be an exaggeration, but seven to eight may be accurate. The disparity between low end wages in high end wages is more massive now than it has ever been.

It's a cultural thing though. You have a large segment of the population that has been brainwashed to believe that education has no value, that military service makes you a hero, that because their parents and grandparents did okay working in a mine/mill/factory that they will do fine too. This covers about 50% of the U.S. and increasingly more across Canada.

People bitch about the price of houses just like they used to when I was young. The people who really want a house have always done the things they needed to do to get one. To be fair though, if you allow the people selling something to decide on the price if that something, that price is always going to be a premium.

We have created a system where developers are only encourage to build the most expensive housing. They are mostly encouraged to build single family houses and those are just out of range for young, first time home owners. If you wait, and save, you can get one but people want it now.

In my area right now you can't get a mortgage on an older mobile home. Those used to be first homes and there are a lot of them around but only people with money can buy them so they do and rent them out at a premium. Apartments in 4, 6, and 8 plexes used to be first time homes too but they haven't allowed those in a long time. You can build a duplex if the lot is big enough but the red tape makes it not worthwhile. Etc., etc., etc.

Let's not even start on the issue of artificially low interest rates designed to get people buying crap they don't need and what happens when that rate increases even slightly.

dudalb · 24th January 2023, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

HD will gladly sell you insulation and AC units.

Hey I admit I shop at Home Depot a lot....

Roger Ramjets · 24th January 2023, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

Home Depot's 93-year-old cofounder Bernie Marcus — who retired in 2002 — says he doesn't want the "woke generation" leading business...

"You can't hire people," he said. "Nobody wants to work anymore, especially office people."

Marcus said that the reason that people didn't want to work is that "they're entitled, they're given everything," adding that government unemployment benefits were pushing people to stay at home.

Current unemployment rate is only 3.5%. So who are all these people who don't want to work?

How Many Workers Are Truly “Missing” from the Labor Force?

Quote:

As of March 2022, the U.S. labor force participation rate remained one percentage point below its pre-pandemic level. After accounting for the effects of slower population growth and the aging of the population in the past two years, I estimate that around 2 million workers are missing from the labor force. Individuals age 65 and older, whose participation rates remain persistently below pre-pandemic levels, constitute most of the missing labor force.

No Bernie, it's old people like you who don't want to work. Get back to the office you lazy entitled prick - no rest for the wicked!

shemp · 24th January 2023, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Childless here myself, but isn't one of the points of having children at all is to create a work that surpasses you? Launch into a future a being that takes the best of yourself and improves upon it, so that you bequeath to the universe a legacy beyond what you were able to do yourself in your limited time?

This is why I'm childless, because I'm already perfect.

Shepherd · 24th January 2023, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by ZirconBlue

The current Federal Minimum Wage is only $7.25. So, adjusted for inflation, the minimum wage has decreased.

I thought about making that point, too.

I even calculated that the minimum wage in 1963 would have given people about 68% more in purchasing power than the federal minimum wage of today.

Roboramma · 25th January 2023, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by wareyin

What is the functional difference between appearing to have a diverse workforce and having a diverse workforce? Is Home Depot requiring employees to wear blackface and/or cross dress in order to only appear to not [eta: only] hire white guys?

Imagine there are two companies. One of them (A) has a diverse workforce and the other (B) doesn't.

Now imagine two scenarios:

1. A's productivity suffers due to lacking insights that would be present with a diverse workforce, while B, because of its diverse workforce, has this productivity advantage, and because of this is more profitable.

2. A and B's workforces are equally productive, but A suffers in the marketplace due a stigma that has arisen since customers became aware of its lack of a diverse workforce. As such it is less profitable than B.

Do you think there is no meaningful difference between these two scenarios?

TragicMonkey · 25th January 2023, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Roboramma

Imagine there are two companies. One of them (A) has a diverse workforce and the other (B) doesn't.

Now imagine two scenarios:

1. A's productivity suffers due to lacking insights that would be present with a diverse workforce, while B, because of its diverse workforce, has this productivity advantage, and because of this is more profitable.

2. A and B's workforces are equally productive, but A suffers in the marketplace due a stigma that has arisen since customers became aware of its lack of a diverse workforce. As such it is less profitable than B.

Do you think there is no meaningful difference between these two scenarios?

There's another benefit to a (real or imagined) diverse workforce: it makes the company more attractive to employees in going to work there, and staying there. I've worked for the whole range: companies that really were pro-diversity, companies that just said slogans to appear pro-diversity, companies that said and did absolutely nothing about diversity, and companies where I could have been fired if outed. Given a choice I'm obviously going to pick working for the first kind, and going to avoid working for the last kind.

wareyin · 25th January 2023, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Roboramma

Imagine there are two companies. One of them (A) has a diverse workforce and the other (B) doesn't.

Now imagine two scenarios:

1. A's productivity suffers due to lacking insights that would be present with a diverse workforce, while B, because of its diverse workforce, has this productivity advantage, and because of this is more profitable.

2. A and B's workforces are equally productive, but A suffers in the marketplace due a stigma that has arisen since customers became aware of its lack of a diverse workforce. As such it is less profitable than B.

Do you think there is no meaningful difference between these two scenarios?

Your scenarios do not address the functional difference between appearing to have a diverse workforce and actually having a diverse workforce. Company A does not have nor does not appear to have a diverse workforce.

Trebuchet · 25th January 2023, 11:38 AM

“[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances.
…
They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.”

lobosrul5 · 25th January 2023, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

I agree with what you are saying here, but I wonder if the wages of fast food worker have gone up much, even in Silicon Valley. Two to three times may be an exaggeration, but seven to eight may be accurate. The disparity between low end wages in high end wages is more massive now than it has ever been.

I haven't the foggiest clue how low income workers afford to live in places like Silicon valley. Is everyone like 4 to a room or something? If I bought the equivalent to my house in San Jose, my mortgage payment (on a 30 year) would exceed my take home pay.

Trebuchet · 25th January 2023, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

I haven't the foggiest clue how low income workers afford to live in places like Silicon valley. Is everyone like 4 to a room or something? If I bought the equivalent to my house in San Jose, my mortgage payment (on a 30 year) would exceed my take home pay.

Extended commutes. And marginally making it.

dudalb · 25th January 2023, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

“[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances.
…
They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.”

I actuallly think there is some truth to that...lotso f people between the ages of 16 and 22 think they know it all....but also that people quickly grow out of it.

Roboramma · 25th January 2023, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by wareyin

Your scenarios do not address the functional difference between appearing to have a diverse workforce and actually having a diverse workforce. Company A does not have nor does not appear to have a diverse workforce.

Company B appears to have a diverse workforce (in this case, because it does), and in scenario 2 it's that appearance that causes the change in profitability.

Roboramma · 25th January 2023, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

There's another benefit to a (real or imagined) diverse workforce: it makes the company more attractive to employees in going to work there, and staying there. I've worked for the whole range: companies that really were pro-diversity, companies that just said slogans to appear pro-diversity, companies that said and did absolutely nothing about diversity, and companies where I could have been fired if outed. Given a choice I'm obviously going to pick working for the first kind, and going to avoid working for the last kind.

Yeah, that seems reasonable.

Darat · 26th January 2023, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

I haven't the foggiest clue how low income workers afford to live in places like Silicon valley. Is everyone like 4 to a room or something? If I bought the equivalent to my house in San Jose, my mortgage payment (on a 30 year) would exceed my take home pay.

Even when I lived in London (over 20 years ago) most young people i.e. under 30, including those in OK paying jobs (back then) house shared to some extent. Today it is not unusual for people in their lates 30s and 40s with OK jobs to still be house sharing. And yes for the many on terrible wages i.e. often those providing the essential services for London will be living in (often illegal) multi-occupancy homes where they will be sharing bedrooms.

Wudang · 26th January 2023, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

It's only anecdotal but young people today seem to have a lot more "hustle" and are far more entrepreneurial than I was back in my day.

100%. My daughter is 17 and starts Uni next academic year. She talks about the pressures on kids her age to have part-time jobs, manage their CVs, volunteer, focus on school etc. Nothing like my long gone day.

8enotto · 26th January 2023, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by wareyin

Heh, I remember working as a teenager at a McDonald's during one of the rare federal minimum wage increases. Our manager, thinking we were stupid and never saw the news, actually bragged to us about how well we were all being treated by him because he gave us a raise. To the new minimum wage. Sadly, at least half of the workforce believed that he personally chose to give us all raises.

It happened to me three times, each time I was thrust into the bottom of the next tax bracket and took less money home.
I fixed my situation by working part time and taking more dollars home.

I suspect they calculate this carefully.

wareyin · 26th January 2023, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by Roboramma

Company B appears to have a diverse workforce (in this case, because it does), and in scenario 2 it's that appearance that causes the change in profitability.

You're still comparing a company which does have a diverse workforce with one which neither has nor appears to have a diverse workforce.

My question was what the difference between Zig's "appearing to have" a diverse workforce complaint, and actually having a diverse workforce is.

Roboramma · 26th January 2023, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by wareyin

You're still comparing a company which does have a diverse workforce with one which neither has nor appears to have a diverse workforce.

My question was what the difference between Zig's "appearing to have" a diverse workforce complaint, and actually having a diverse workforce is.

You seemed to think that there's no meaningful difference between the appearance of diversity causing increased profitability and increased productivity due to diversity causing increased profitability.

I think that, whether or not the appearance reflects reality, that difference is meaningful.

But if you don't dispute that then maybe I misunderstand you and there's no disagreement here.

Hellbound · 26th January 2023, 07:30 AM

Just to clarify;

While I believe the discussion on whether diversity is a good in and of itself is important (I believe it to be: it provides a larger pool of applicants and aids in retention of workers if done correctly), that wasn’t my point.

My point was that whether it’s an actual good or just “PR”, a businessman who doesn’t pay attention to the company’s public image is not a very good businessman.

I’ll let you all return to other discussion now

Sent from my volcanic island lair using carrier pigeon.

24th January 2023, 01:49 PM	#43
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 25,429	Originally Posted by Brainster I accept the 100x estimate for San Jose real estate prices, but wages have gone up "maybe" 2-3 times in the last 60 years? That's ridiculous. The whole reason prices have gone sky-high in Silicon Valley is because the average pay in the area has skyrocketed as well. I agree with what you are saying here, but I wonder if the wages of fast food worker have gone up much, even in Silicon Valley. Two to three times may be an exaggeration, but seven to eight may be accurate. The disparity between low end wages in high end wages is more massive now than it has ever been.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

24th January 2023, 02:23 PM	#44
qayak Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,815	Originally Posted by Dr. Keith I agree with what you are saying here, but I wonder if the wages of fast food worker have gone up much, even in Silicon Valley. Two to three times may be an exaggeration, but seven to eight may be accurate. The disparity between low end wages in high end wages is more massive now than it has ever been. It's a cultural thing though. You have a large segment of the population that has been brainwashed to believe that education has no value, that military service makes you a hero, that because their parents and grandparents did okay working in a mine/mill/factory that they will do fine too. This covers about 50% of the U.S. and increasingly more across Canada. People bitch about the price of houses just like they used to when I was young. The people who really want a house have always done the things they needed to do to get one. To be fair though, if you allow the people selling something to decide on the price if that something, that price is always going to be a premium. We have created a system where developers are only encourage to build the most expensive housing. They are mostly encouraged to build single family houses and those are just out of range for young, first time home owners. If you wait, and save, you can get one but people want it now. In my area right now you can't get a mortgage on an older mobile home. Those used to be first homes and there are a lot of them around but only people with money can buy them so they do and rent them out at a premium. Apartments in 4, 6, and 8 plexes used to be first time homes too but they haven't allowed those in a long time. You can build a duplex if the lot is big enough but the red tape makes it not worthwhile. Etc., etc., etc. Let's not even start on the issue of artificially low interest rates designed to get people buying crap they don't need and what happens when that rate increases even slightly.
	__________________ "How long you live, how high you fly The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry And all you touch, and all you see Is all your life will ever be."

24th January 2023, 03:13 PM	#45
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,211	Originally Posted by Trebuchet HD will gladly sell you insulation and AC units. Hey I admit I shop at Home Depot a lot....
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

24th January 2023, 04:41 PM	#46
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 6,041	Originally Posted by shemp Home Depot's 93-year-old cofounder Bernie Marcus — who retired in 2002 — says he doesn't want the "woke generation" leading business... "You can't hire people," he said. "Nobody wants to work anymore, especially office people." Marcus said that the reason that people didn't want to work is that "they're entitled, they're given everything," adding that government unemployment benefits were pushing people to stay at home. Current unemployment rate is only 3.5%. So who are all these people who don't want to work? How Many Workers Are Truly “Missing” from the Labor Force? Quote: As of March 2022, the U.S. labor force participation rate remained one percentage point below its pre-pandemic level. After accounting for the effects of slower population growth and the aging of the population in the past two years, I estimate that around 2 million workers are missing from the labor force. Individuals age 65 and older, whose participation rates remain persistently below pre-pandemic levels, constitute most of the missing labor force. No Bernie, it's old people like you who don't want to work. Get back to the office you lazy entitled prick - no rest for the wicked!
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

24th January 2023, 04:44 PM	#47
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Out back preparing the bunker for the next Civil War Posts: 52,733	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Childless here myself, but isn't one of the points of having children at all is to create a work that surpasses you? Launch into a future a being that takes the best of yourself and improves upon it, so that you bequeath to the universe a legacy beyond what you were able to do yourself in your limited time? This is why I'm childless, because I'm already perfect.
	__________________ "Yes, I'll be around for many more centuries. You, meanwhile, will have long ago been turned into value dog food, despite your express wishes to the contrary." -- JihadJane

24th January 2023, 01:28 PM	#41
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7,556	The bit about laziness and government benefits reminds me of some of the military science fiction novels I've read by authors like John Ringo. When the evil and cunning Liberals gain control they always start giving the citizens handouts specifically so the public will become helpless and dependent on them so they can hold on to their political power forever. Everything is an evil conspiracy.

24th January 2023, 01:28 PM	#42
wareyin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 10,872	Originally Posted by lobosrul5 You can see what the federal min wage has been in "constant inflation adjusted dollars" in the below linked chart. https://www.infoplease.com/business/...ates-1955-2021 Note, that it ends in 2021, so take about another 12 or 13% off for 2023 (makes it $3.68 in 1996 dollars by my math). You can see how good the people entering the workforce in the 60's and 70's had it! Late 80's was also pretty ******, it was stuck at $3.35 for years. Of course, I've now seen McDonalds advertising $13/hr in my area. Target now pays a minimum of $15, as examples. Heh, I remember working as a teenager at a McDonald's during one of the rare federal minimum wage increases. Our manager, thinking we were stupid and never saw the news, actually bragged to us about how well we were all being treated by him because he gave us a raise. To the new minimum wage. Sadly, at least half of the workforce believed that he personally chose to give us all raises.

24th January 2023, 06:42 PM	#48
Shepherd Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 416	Originally Posted by ZirconBlue The current Federal Minimum Wage is only $7.25. So, adjusted for inflation, the minimum wage has decreased. I thought about making that point, too. I even calculated that the minimum wage in 1963 would have given people about 68% more in purchasing power than the federal minimum wage of today.
Shepherd Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 416

25th January 2023, 08:51 AM	#49
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 15,158	Originally Posted by wareyin What is the functional difference between appearing to have a diverse workforce and having a diverse workforce? Is Home Depot requiring employees to wear blackface and/or cross dress in order to only appear to not [eta: only] hire white guys? Imagine there are two companies. One of them (A) has a diverse workforce and the other (B) doesn't. Now imagine two scenarios: 1. A's productivity suffers due to lacking insights that would be present with a diverse workforce, while B, because of its diverse workforce, has this productivity advantage, and because of this is more profitable. 2. A and B's workforces are equally productive, but A suffers in the marketplace due a stigma that has arisen since customers became aware of its lack of a diverse workforce. As such it is less profitable than B. Do you think there is no meaningful difference between these two scenarios?
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

25th January 2023, 09:24 AM	#50
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 64,839	Originally Posted by Roboramma Imagine there are two companies. One of them (A) has a diverse workforce and the other (B) doesn't. Now imagine two scenarios: 1. A's productivity suffers due to lacking insights that would be present with a diverse workforce, while B, because of its diverse workforce, has this productivity advantage, and because of this is more profitable. 2. A and B's workforces are equally productive, but A suffers in the marketplace due a stigma that has arisen since customers became aware of its lack of a diverse workforce. As such it is less profitable than B. Do you think there is no meaningful difference between these two scenarios? There's another benefit to a (real or imagined) diverse workforce: it makes the company more attractive to employees in going to work there, and staying there. I've worked for the whole range: companies that really were pro-diversity, companies that just said slogans to appear pro-diversity, companies that said and did absolutely nothing about diversity, and companies where I could have been fired if outed. Given a choice I'm obviously going to pick working for the first kind, and going to avoid working for the last kind.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

25th January 2023, 09:54 AM	#51
wareyin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 10,872	Originally Posted by Roboramma Imagine there are two companies. One of them (A) has a diverse workforce and the other (B) doesn't. Now imagine two scenarios: 1. A's productivity suffers due to lacking insights that would be present with a diverse workforce, while B, because of its diverse workforce, has this productivity advantage, and because of this is more profitable. 2. A and B's workforces are equally productive, but A suffers in the marketplace due a stigma that has arisen since customers became aware of its lack of a diverse workforce. As such it is less profitable than B. Do you think there is no meaningful difference between these two scenarios? Your scenarios do not address the functional difference between appearing to have a diverse workforce and actually having a diverse workforce. Company A does not have nor does not appear to have a diverse workforce.

25th January 2023, 11:38 AM	#52
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 35,641	“[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances. … They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.” Athens, 4th Century BCE.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

25th January 2023, 02:58 PM	#53
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,127	Originally Posted by Dr. Keith I agree with what you are saying here, but I wonder if the wages of fast food worker have gone up much, even in Silicon Valley. Two to three times may be an exaggeration, but seven to eight may be accurate. The disparity between low end wages in high end wages is more massive now than it has ever been. I haven't the foggiest clue how low income workers afford to live in places like Silicon valley. Is everyone like 4 to a room or something? If I bought the equivalent to my house in San Jose, my mortgage payment (on a 30 year) would exceed my take home pay.
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,127

25th January 2023, 04:19 PM	#54
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 35,641	Originally Posted by lobosrul5 I haven't the foggiest clue how low income workers afford to live in places like Silicon valley. Is everyone like 4 to a room or something? If I bought the equivalent to my house in San Jose, my mortgage payment (on a 30 year) would exceed my take home pay. Extended commutes. And marginally making it.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

25th January 2023, 04:57 PM	#55
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,211	Originally Posted by Trebuchet “[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances. … They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.” Athens, 4th Century BCE. I actuallly think there is some truth to that...lotso f people between the ages of 16 and 22 think they know it all....but also that people quickly grow out of it.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

25th January 2023, 05:42 PM	#56
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 15,158	Originally Posted by wareyin Your scenarios do not address the functional difference between appearing to have a diverse workforce and actually having a diverse workforce. Company A does not have nor does not appear to have a diverse workforce. Company B appears to have a diverse workforce (in this case, because it does), and in scenario 2 it's that appearance that causes the change in profitability.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

25th January 2023, 05:43 PM	#57
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 15,158	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey There's another benefit to a (real or imagined) diverse workforce: it makes the company more attractive to employees in going to work there, and staying there. I've worked for the whole range: companies that really were pro-diversity, companies that just said slogans to appear pro-diversity, companies that said and did absolutely nothing about diversity, and companies where I could have been fired if outed. Given a choice I'm obviously going to pick working for the first kind, and going to avoid working for the last kind. Yeah, that seems reasonable.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

26th January 2023, 03:33 AM	#58
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,875	Originally Posted by lobosrul5 I haven't the foggiest clue how low income workers afford to live in places like Silicon valley. Is everyone like 4 to a room or something? If I bought the equivalent to my house in San Jose, my mortgage payment (on a 30 year) would exceed my take home pay. Even when I lived in London (over 20 years ago) most young people i.e. under 30, including those in OK paying jobs (back then) house shared to some extent. Today it is not unusual for people in their lates 30s and 40s with OK jobs to still be house sharing. And yes for the many on terrible wages i.e. often those providing the essential services for London will be living in (often illegal) multi-occupancy homes where they will be sharing bedrooms.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

26th January 2023, 05:05 AM	#59
Wudang BOFH Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire Posts: 15,130	Originally Posted by The Don It's only anecdotal but young people today seem to have a lot more "hustle" and are far more entrepreneurial than I was back in my day. 100%. My daughter is 17 and starts Uni next academic year. She talks about the pressures on kids her age to have part-time jobs, manage their CVs, volunteer, focus on school etc. Nothing like my long gone day.
	__________________ "Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.

26th January 2023, 06:38 AM	#60
8enotto Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Mexico Posts: 2,753	Originally Posted by wareyin Heh, I remember working as a teenager at a McDonald's during one of the rare federal minimum wage increases. Our manager, thinking we were stupid and never saw the news, actually bragged to us about how well we were all being treated by him because he gave us a raise. To the new minimum wage. Sadly, at least half of the workforce believed that he personally chose to give us all raises. It happened to me three times, each time I was thrust into the bottom of the next tax bracket and took less money home. I fixed my situation by working part time and taking more dollars home. I suspect they calculate this carefully.

26th January 2023, 06:43 AM	#61
wareyin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 10,872	Originally Posted by Roboramma Company B appears to have a diverse workforce (in this case, because it does), and in scenario 2 it's that appearance that causes the change in profitability. You're still comparing a company which does have a diverse workforce with one which neither has nor appears to have a diverse workforce. My question was what the difference between Zig's "appearing to have" a diverse workforce complaint, and actually having a diverse workforce is.

26th January 2023, 07:19 AM	#62
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 15,158	Originally Posted by wareyin You're still comparing a company which does have a diverse workforce with one which neither has nor appears to have a diverse workforce. My question was what the difference between Zig's "appearing to have" a diverse workforce complaint, and actually having a diverse workforce is. You seemed to think that there's no meaningful difference between the appearance of diversity causing increased profitability and increased productivity due to diversity causing increased profitability. I think that, whether or not the appearance reflects reality, that difference is meaningful. But if you don't dispute that then maybe I misunderstand you and there's no disagreement here.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

26th January 2023, 07:30 AM	#63
Hellbound Merchant of Doom Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day... Posts: 15,036	Just to clarify; While I believe the discussion on whether diversity is a good in and of itself is important (I believe it to be: it provides a larger pool of applicants and aids in retention of workers if done correctly), that wasn’t my point. My point was that whether it’s an actual good or just “PR”, a businessman who doesn’t pay attention to the company’s public image is not a very good businessman. I’ll let you all return to other discussion now Sent from my volcanic island lair using carrier pigeon.
	__________________ History does not always repeat itself. Sometimes it just yells "Can't you remember anything I told you?" and lets fly with a club. - John w. Campbell