The behaviour of UK police officers. - Page 17

Darat · 25th January 2023, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...exual-offences

Really? Really? WTF?

Have I staggered off into some Bizarro Universe?

"There was no evidence that linked any of Chehab’s offending to his school role, the force said."

Well that makes all the difference....

And apparently "The Met said an accelerated misconduct process had been initiated for Chehab and would be held as quickly as possible."

That's a relief!

Wonder how long before he is sacked, in most organisations that would be about 10 seconds after he pleaded guilty.

Nessie · 25th January 2023, 06:21 AM

I think this is very good news;

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2268832.html

"Two to three Metropolitan Police officers will be appearing in court every week, including more charged with sexual offences and domestic abuse, the commissioner has said.
Sir Mark Rowley admitted there are more than “just a few bad apples” in the force and warned of more “ghastly” cases to come."

If the Met was hardly reporting any cops and announcing the problem is not that bad, that would be evidence of continuing cover ups and inaction. A constant stream of cops going to court is evidence they are reforming.

Rolfe · 25th January 2023, 07:51 AM

Are they sacking them?

Nessie · 25th January 2023, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Are they sacking them?

Not sure yet.

Darat · 25th January 2023, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Nessie

I think this is very good news;

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2268832.html

"Two to three Metropolitan Police officers will be appearing in court every week, including more charged with sexual offences and domestic abuse, the commissioner has said.
Sir Mark Rowley admitted there are more than “just a few bad apples” in the force and warned of more “ghastly” cases to come."

If the Met was hardly reporting any cops and announcing the problem is not that bad, that would be evidence of continuing cover ups and inaction. A constant stream of cops going to court is evidence they are reforming.

(I thought I'd responded to this but must have been dreaming.)

Or it could be that they have now hit a critical mass that they can't paper over all the "bad apples" any longer.

I'll try to be an optimist and hope it does indicate they are at last dealing with the many problems. But I think if I just see offences from the last few years going to court I am going to find it hard to remain optimistic - we should be seeing police officers charged for acts they committed decades ago as well as newer offences.

Nessie · 25th January 2023, 08:46 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ial-every-week

"...the Met may have hundreds of officers who should have been rooted out. Other informed sources fear the number could be higher.
As part of urgent reforms, a hotline for the public is understood to be receiving up to 40 calls a week. Rowley said a third were about officers at other forces but, nonetheless, some calls were leading to fresh investigations."

Since domestic violence & sexual crime is under reported and even more under reported when committed by police officers, it will not be 100s of cops who need rooting out, it will be thousands.

Nessie · 25th January 2023, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

(I thought I'd responded to this but must have been dreaming.)

Or it could be that they have now hit a critical mass that they can't paper over all the "bad apples" any longer.

I'll try to be an optimist and hope it does indicate they are at last dealing with the many problems. But I think if I just see offences from the last few years going to court I am going to find it hard to remain optimistic - we should be seeing police officers charged for acts they committed decades ago as well as newer offences.

I think Sarah Everard was a tipping point, because the police were now up against 50% of the population, women. Every single woman has a bad news story about a man. Many have multiple. As evidence appears that some of the worst offenders are men who are police officers, along with more women in the police and so many of them coming forward with even more bad news about the men, the mass you refer to has been enough to tip the police into finally accepting the problem and taking action.

I suspect a lack of resources will mean many past offenders will escape justice.

sphenisc · 25th January 2023, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Nessie

I think this is very good news;

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2268832.html

"Two to three Metropolitan Police officers will be appearing in court every week, including more charged with sexual offences and domestic abuse, the commissioner has said.
Sir Mark Rowley admitted there are more than “just a few bad apples” in the force and warned of more “ghastly” cases to come."

If the Met was hardly reporting any cops and announcing the problem is not that bad, that would be evidence of continuing cover ups and inaction. A constant stream of cops going to court is evidence they are reforming.

"Appearing in court"... it's not the ******* London Palladium. How about "tried for criminal offences"?

zooterkin · 25th January 2023, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Nessie

I think Sarah Everard was a tipping point, because the police were now up against 50% of the population, women. Every single woman has a bad news story about a man. Many have multiple. As evidence appears that some of the worst offenders are men who are police officers, along with more women in the police and so many of them coming forward with even more bad news about the men, the mass you refer to has been enough to tip the police into finally accepting the problem and taking action.

I suspect a lack of resources will mean many past offenders will escape justice.

And there’s even fewer officers to do the investigation, the longer they go on…

Matthew Best · 25th January 2023, 10:34 AM

Here's one of the hundreds:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64396513

"A serving Met Police officer who was posted in a school in north London has pleaded guilty to child sex offences.

PC Hussain Chehab, 22, admitted four counts of sexual activity with a girl aged 13-15, three counts of making indecent photographs of a child, and sexual communication with a child."

bluesjnr · 25th January 2023, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Here's one of the hundreds:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64396513

"A serving Met Police officer who was posted in a school in north London has pleaded guilty to child sex offences.

PC Hussain Chehab, 22, admitted four counts of sexual activity with a girl aged 13-15, three counts of making indecent photographs of a child, and sexual communication with a child."

This has been reported here, looks like you missed the page "turn".

jimbob · 25th January 2023, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...exual-offences

Really? Really? WTF?

Have I staggered off into some Bizarro Universe?

Why would their vetting work for officers who were going to work with children when it clearly is inadequate everywhere else.

Nessie · 26th January 2023, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Why would their vetting work for officers who were going to work with children when it clearly is inadequate everywhere else.

The effect of vetting is limited. A parallel is the vetting needed to get a firearms licence. We do not see a stream of heavily vetted firearms licence holders in court over sexual offences, DV and other crimes of violence, as we are with the police.

Why is that? I would suggest it is because firearms licence holders lose that licence and their gun at the drop of a hat. Whereas, many cops, amazingly, get to keep their jobs.

Vetting works in conjunction with sanctions. If someone knows that they will lose what they have applied for, if they misbehave, then only decent people apply for it in the first place.

25th January 2023, 06:01 AM	#641
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,880	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...exual-offences Really? Really? WTF? Have I staggered off into some Bizarro Universe? "There was no evidence that linked any of Chehab’s offending to his school role, the force said." Well that makes all the difference.... And apparently "The Met said an accelerated misconduct process had been initiated for Chehab and would be held as quickly as possible." That's a relief! Wonder how long before he is sacked, in most organisations that would be about 10 seconds after he pleaded guilty.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

25th January 2023, 06:21 AM	#642
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14,027	I think this is very good news; https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2268832.html "Two to three Metropolitan Police officers will be appearing in court every week, including more charged with sexual offences and domestic abuse, the commissioner has said. Sir Mark Rowley admitted there are more than “just a few bad apples” in the force and warned of more “ghastly” cases to come." If the Met was hardly reporting any cops and announcing the problem is not that bad, that would be evidence of continuing cover ups and inaction. A constant stream of cops going to court is evidence they are reforming.
	__________________ Audiophile/biker/sceptic

25th January 2023, 07:51 AM	#643
Rolfe Adult human female Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 50,286	Are they sacking them?
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

25th January 2023, 08:14 AM	#644
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14,027	Originally Posted by Rolfe Are they sacking them? Not sure yet.
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25th January 2023, 08:16 AM	#645
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,880	Originally Posted by Nessie I think this is very good news; https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2268832.html "Two to three Metropolitan Police officers will be appearing in court every week, including more charged with sexual offences and domestic abuse, the commissioner has said. Sir Mark Rowley admitted there are more than “just a few bad apples” in the force and warned of more “ghastly” cases to come." If the Met was hardly reporting any cops and announcing the problem is not that bad, that would be evidence of continuing cover ups and inaction. A constant stream of cops going to court is evidence they are reforming. (I thought I'd responded to this but must have been dreaming.) Or it could be that they have now hit a critical mass that they can't paper over all the "bad apples" any longer. I'll try to be an optimist and hope it does indicate they are at last dealing with the many problems. But I think if I just see offences from the last few years going to court I am going to find it hard to remain optimistic - we should be seeing police officers charged for acts they committed decades ago as well as newer offences.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

25th January 2023, 08:46 AM	#646
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14,027	https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ial-every-week "...the Met may have hundreds of officers who should have been rooted out. Other informed sources fear the number could be higher. As part of urgent reforms, a hotline for the public is understood to be receiving up to 40 calls a week. Rowley said a third were about officers at other forces but, nonetheless, some calls were leading to fresh investigations." Since domestic violence & sexual crime is under reported and even more under reported when committed by police officers, it will not be 100s of cops who need rooting out, it will be thousands.
	__________________ Audiophile/biker/sceptic

25th January 2023, 08:54 AM	#647
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14,027	Originally Posted by Darat (I thought I'd responded to this but must have been dreaming.) Or it could be that they have now hit a critical mass that they can't paper over all the "bad apples" any longer. I'll try to be an optimist and hope it does indicate they are at last dealing with the many problems. But I think if I just see offences from the last few years going to court I am going to find it hard to remain optimistic - we should be seeing police officers charged for acts they committed decades ago as well as newer offences. I think Sarah Everard was a tipping point, because the police were now up against 50% of the population, women. Every single woman has a bad news story about a man. Many have multiple. As evidence appears that some of the worst offenders are men who are police officers, along with more women in the police and so many of them coming forward with even more bad news about the men, the mass you refer to has been enough to tip the police into finally accepting the problem and taking action. I suspect a lack of resources will mean many past offenders will escape justice.
	__________________ Audiophile/biker/sceptic

25th January 2023, 08:57 AM	#648
sphenisc Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,830	Originally Posted by Nessie I think this is very good news; https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2268832.html "Two to three Metropolitan Police officers will be appearing in court every week, including more charged with sexual offences and domestic abuse, the commissioner has said. Sir Mark Rowley admitted there are more than “just a few bad apples” in the force and warned of more “ghastly” cases to come." If the Met was hardly reporting any cops and announcing the problem is not that bad, that would be evidence of continuing cover ups and inaction. A constant stream of cops going to court is evidence they are reforming. "Appearing in court"... it's not the ******* London Palladium. How about "tried for criminal offences"?
sphenisc Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,830	__________________ "The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen

25th January 2023, 10:12 AM	#649
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 54,653	Originally Posted by Nessie I think Sarah Everard was a tipping point, because the police were now up against 50% of the population, women. Every single woman has a bad news story about a man. Many have multiple. As evidence appears that some of the worst offenders are men who are police officers, along with more women in the police and so many of them coming forward with even more bad news about the men, the mass you refer to has been enough to tip the police into finally accepting the problem and taking action. I suspect a lack of resources will mean many past offenders will escape justice. And there’s even fewer officers to do the investigation, the longer they go on…
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

25th January 2023, 10:34 AM	#650
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 9,669	Here's one of the hundreds: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64396513 "A serving Met Police officer who was posted in a school in north London has pleaded guilty to child sex offences. PC Hussain Chehab, 22, admitted four counts of sexual activity with a girl aged 13-15, three counts of making indecent photographs of a child, and sexual communication with a child."

25th January 2023, 12:18 PM	#651
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Home. Posts: 10,806	Originally Posted by Matthew Best Here's one of the hundreds: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64396513 "A serving Met Police officer who was posted in a school in north London has pleaded guilty to child sex offences. PC Hussain Chehab, 22, admitted four counts of sexual activity with a girl aged 13-15, three counts of making indecent photographs of a child, and sexual communication with a child." This has been reported here, looks like you missed the page "turn".
	__________________ "OTP? I don' need no steenkin' OTP!"

25th January 2023, 01:13 PM	#652
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 28,553	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...exual-offences Really? Really? WTF? Have I staggered off into some Bizarro Universe? Why would their vetting work for officers who were going to work with children when it clearly is inadequate everywhere else.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

26th January 2023, 04:22 AM	#653
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14,027	Originally Posted by jimbob Why would their vetting work for officers who were going to work with children when it clearly is inadequate everywhere else. The effect of vetting is limited. A parallel is the vetting needed to get a firearms licence. We do not see a stream of heavily vetted firearms licence holders in court over sexual offences, DV and other crimes of violence, as we are with the police. Why is that? I would suggest it is because firearms licence holders lose that licence and their gun at the drop of a hat. Whereas, many cops, amazingly, get to keep their jobs. Vetting works in conjunction with sanctions. If someone knows that they will lose what they have applied for, if they misbehave, then only decent people apply for it in the first place.
	__________________ Audiophile/biker/sceptic