Identify as American? You're, "problematic".

[bluesjnr]

Where next? The University of Stanford has, in it's release of a, "harmful language", list, identified that people from the United States only, may be insinuating that the U.S. is the most important country in the Americas if using the word, "American", to describe themselves.

Quote:

For instance, yes, “American,” from the “imprecise language” section is now problematic. People are instead asked to use “U.S. Citizen” because “American” is commonly used to refer to “people from the United States only, thereby insinuating that the U.S. is the most important country in the Americas.” The Americas, the guide points out, is made up of 42 countries.

You insensitive bastards!

[ahhell]

That might be the least stupid part of that list.

Quote:

Violent language is also a no-no. Troubling terms include “beating a dead horse, which “normalizes violence against animals,” “pull the trigger,” “trigger warning” and “killing two birds with one stone.”

Elsewhere in the guide, the reader is instructed that an “immigrant” is now a “person who has immigrated,” a “prisoner” is now a “person who is/was incarcerated” and a “homeless person” with “a person without housing.

So, now, I guess the phrase trigger warning needs a trigger warning?

[Thermal]

Isn't the USA the only nation of those 42 that uses the continent's name in as the big identifier in its national name tho?

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Isn't the USA the only nation of those 42 that uses the continent's name in as the big identifier in its national name tho?

Yeah, and unless I'm mistaken, we're the only country to use the denonym "American". This is a solution looking for a problem.

[jt512]

After being widely ridiculed for calling for elimination of the word "American," Stanford required a log-in to view its list of "harmful" words. Fortunately, the Wall Street Journal saved a copy of the list, which can viewed here.

[bluesjnr]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Isn't the USA the only nation of those 42 that uses the continent's name in as the big identifier in its national name tho?

Stop oppressing me....

[jt512]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

Yeah, and unless I'm mistaken, we're the only country to use the denonym "American". This is a solution looking for a problem.

Most of the list is.

[bluesjnr]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

Yeah, and unless I'm mistaken, we're the only country to use the denonym "American". This is a solution looking for a problem.

Or as we say, "only in America".

[8enotto]

From a south of the US the americas are from Patagonia to the arctic circle.

The part just south of Canada is the United States.

It's not a bad or derogatory thing unless it's politics 2016 to 2020 and in terms of goods it's sometimes preferred to other sources. Even domestic goods.

In the middle east region I would probably never be admit to being a US citizen casually. It makes for lousy vacation time.

During the Bush years it was even worse as they were causing a lot of strife in other places and people reacted.
It didn't make my life easier sometimes.

[Stacyhs]

How silly. Every other country in the Americas has an easy and obvious name for its citizens derived from its name: Mexican, Colombian, Peruvian, Costa Rican, Panamanian, Uruguayan, etc. Then we have The United States of America. What else should we or others call us? Unitens? United Statesans? Statians? Those do not indicate geographical location, but "Americans" does. Absolutely a solution looking for a problem.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

How silly. Every other country in the Americas has an easy and obvious name for its citizens derived from its name: Mexican, Colombian, Peruvian, Costa Rican, Panamanian, Uruguayan, etc. Then we have The United States of America. What else should we or others call us? Unitens? United Statesans? Statians? Those do not indicate geographical location, but "Americans" does. Absolutely a solution looking for a problem.

Yanks. That's what we use for you.

Easy.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally Posted by Thermal

Isn't the USA the only nation of those 42 that uses the continent's name in as the big identifier in its national name tho?

Yes. Which is rather unimaginative of us. In the cereal aisle bursting with creativity and flavor we chose to be "Cereal Flakes". It's a problem that's been recognized from the very beginning: we started as "the American colonies" and that was sufficient for English speakers because England only had that lump of colonies. Then Canada got distincted. The Founding Fatters considered other options, but some (Columbia) were already in use by others, and some were just silly. What should have been done was the invention of a completely new and original name that wasn't in use before or by anyone else-- they could have named us Cardassia or Sextasia or Zakuul. But they didn't and it seems rather too late to change it now.

How many times does someone actually get confused when someone from the US says "I'm an American"? Do people from other continents scratch their heads and guess we're from Brazil and just being general with the continent? Do people from other countries in the Americas get confused? Or is it that the rest of the continent feels insulted, like we're laying claim to the entire thing (which we've tried in the past, it didn't work out)? I guess I'm more inclined to view retention of the generic term as a sad failure in creativity rather than a boastful flex. There's no extra honor in being generic.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Yanks. That's what we use for you.

Easy.

Also problematic, since it derives from "Yankee" and is a term for only a part of the country. Much like calling Iran "Persia" was a slight to all the other regions of Iran that aren't Persia.

And of course it doesn't help that one region of the country is still big mad about the Yankee region winning some sort of scuffle they had a while back, I'm not clear on the details but it seemed to mostly involve statues in parks and the naming of streets.

[Orphia Nay]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

How silly. Every other country in the Americas has an easy and obvious name for its citizens derived from its name: Mexican, Colombian, Peruvian, Costa Rican, Panamanian, Uruguayan, etc. Then we have The United States of America. What else should we or others call us? Unitens? United Statesans? Statians? Those do not indicate geographical location, but "Americans" does. Absolutely a solution looking for a problem.

True.

But it is also true that the term "American" "insinuates that the US is the most important country in the Americas (which is actually made up of 42 countries)".

They say you should call yourselves "US Citizens". Doubt that'll happen, if even those accused of being "woke" on the forum don't want to give up being "American".

I'm Australian (disclaimer), but I'd like to hear from other citizens of central/south America on this.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

True.

But it is also true that the term "American" "insinuates that the US is the most important country in the Americas (which is actually made up of 42 countries)".

They say you should call yourselves "US Citizens". Doubt that'll happen, if even those accused of being "woke" on the forum don't want to give up being "American".

I'm Australian (disclaimer), but I'd like to hear from other citizens of central/south America on this.

But doesn't saying "US citizen" exclude those who live in the US but aren't citizens? Given our somewhat...problematic...history with/current feelings about immigration, saying "citizen" feels like a much ruder flex than employing generic "American" does. It seems to me like it's saying "oh, you may be an American but I'm a citizen!" Everybody's just people in places and from places, no need to throw legal status in the mix as well.

[Orphia Nay]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

But doesn't saying "US citizen" exclude those who live in the US but aren't citizens? Given our somewhat...problematic...history with/current feelings about immigration, saying "citizen" feels like a much ruder flex than employing generic "American" does. It seems to me like it's saying "oh, you may be an American but I'm a citizen!" Everybody's just people in places and from places, no need to throw legal status in the mix as well.

Yes, "I'm from / live in the United States" is probably better. And defining yourself by your nationality is problematic no matter what country you live in.

[8enotto]

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

True.

But it is also true that the term "American" "insinuates that the US is the most important country in the Americas (which is actually made up of 42 countries)".

They say you should call yourselves "US Citizens". Doubt that'll happen, if even those accused of being "woke" on the forum don't want to give up being "American".

I'm Australian (disclaimer), but I'd like to hear from other citizens of central/south America on this.

Citizens of Mexico are Mexican by common use. ( I am not a citizen, I just live in Mexico.)
It is a matter of pride to most.

[mgidm86]

I tell people I'm Canadian.

That article "has qualities that are stupid but the article is not identified by it's stupidity", even though it is 100% stupid.

Quote:

“prisoner” is now a “person who is/was incarcerated”

There is no difference! You are still calling them "A person who is....." which identifies them by that single quality in exactly the same way, at least by the article's standards. Seems that way to me.

You'd have to say, "A person who is incarcerated but who is also a father, an electrician, a convicted murderer and a Pepsi drinker mmkay, they aren't just in prison!"

Twist hard enough and you'll end up with your head stuck up your own backside.

Does this mean I can stop calling these idiots who've been treating me "Doctor?"

[DevilsAdvocate]

It appears this inclusion is the result of some laziness on the part of the Stanford University IT Community's Elimination of Harmful Language Initiative and on the part of old pot stirring by conservative media.

The document created by EFLI includes the sources of the entries on their list. The entry for "American" comes from an archived web page for XSEDE. The Extreme Science and Engineering Discovery Environment was a National Science Foundation project to provide digital resources to scientists and researchers. The Terminology Task Force published a terminology list with entries taken from a number of sources. The "American" entry was taken from a document created for the Inclusive Communications Task Force at Colorado State University.

That Inclusive Language Guide was published by the university newspaper where it then was frequently referenced by conservative media as an example of liberals gone crazy with political correctness. The university then explained that the document was draft document created by a small group of students as possible proposals to a language guide and that the group itself had rejected that entry prior to submission and therefore was never adopted a policy by the university.

The frequent references to the document by conservative media no doubt caused the document to frequently appear when searching for official academic terminology lists, and some of the entries made it on to other lists such as XSEDE which then carried over to the ELHI list.

Stanford has since issued a statement that the document is not official university policy at that the term "American" is not prohibited or even discouraged and that the entry is only included because it may be imprecise in some contexts. I think Stanford is backpedaling and looking for excuses for an entry that was only included by virtue of the path I described. But they certainly never said that it was "problematic" for someone to "identify" as "American".

As others have pointed out, the terms "America" and "American" can be problematic. If I recall correctly, when the Politics section was split it was initially called "USAian Politics" for that very reason until people complained that the name was too silly. My recollection of discussion at the time was that people in South and Central America and some other countries find "America" and "American" to be odd and somewhat confusing because in some other language the name of the country is always a translation of "United States" and "America" is used to refer toa continent or set of continents.

It is a problematic word due to potential ambiguity, but there are not really any effective practical alternatives other than specifying what is meant by the term within a certain context. I think the list should be updated to either remove the entry altogether or at least specify that the issue is ambiguity rather than some sense of superiority and eliminate the rather impractical suggestion of US citizen" as an alternative.

Otherwise--meh. Tempest in a teapot.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by mgidm86

I tell people I'm Canadian.

That article "has qualities that are stupid but the article is not identified by it's stupidity", even though it is 100% stupid.



There is no difference! You are still calling them "A person who is....." which identifies them by that single quality in exactly the same way, at least by the article's standards. Seems that way to me.

You'd have to say, "A person who is incarcerated but who is also a father, an electrician, a convicted murderer and a Pepsi drinker mmkay, they aren't just in prison!"

Twist hard enough and you'll end up with your head stuck up your own backside.

Does this mean I can stop calling these idiots who've been treating me "Doctor?"

Ae you actually Canadian, or do you just tell people that?

[Steve]

This issue would never have arisen if the USA had chosen a better/more interesting name for their country.

[casebro]

Columbus named his new found world after his mentor, Americus Vespucia.

Personally, I am happy to NOT be considered to be a Vespucian.

[casebro]

"“American” is commonly used to refer to “people from the United States only, thereby insinuating that the U.S. is the most important country in the Americas.” The Americas, the guide points out, is made up of 42 countries."

But America IS "the most important country in the Americas.” America wins again.

[ahhell]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

How silly. Every other country in the Americas has an easy and obvious name for its citizens derived from its name: Mexican, Colombian, Peruvian, Costa Rican, Panamanian, Uruguayan, etc. Then we have The United States of America. What else should we or others call us? Unitens? United Statesans? Statians? Those do not indicate geographical location, but "Americans" does. Absolutely a solution looking for a problem.

My understanding is that spanish and Portuguese speakers call us the equivalent of united statsers but everyone else calls us Americans. But then it's also the united States of Mexico, so that is just as theoretically confusing.

And again, not nearly the dumbest thing on the list. It includes basically any phrase with black and rule of thumb while admitting that there is no evidence that it as a problematic origin. It's a an it department suggesting they shouldn't say user?

And of course it's just a suggestion that will likely disappear but it is super dumb.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by casebro

"“American” is commonly used to refer to “people from the United States only, thereby insinuating that the U.S. is the most important country in the Americas.” The Americas, the guide points out, is made up of 42 countries."

But America IS "the most important country in the Americas.” America wins again.

Yup, typical USA attitude. So important to "win".

[mgidm86]

Originally Posted by Steve

Ae you actually Canadian, or do you just tell people that?

I'm a Problematic American but I identify as Canadian at times when I'm embarrassed to admit the truth.

[grunion]

When asked, I say I’m from the US (or sometimes New York.) People south of Texas call us norteamericanos but that term includes Canadians.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by mgidm86

I'm a Problematic American but I identify as Canadian at times when I'm embarrassed to admit the truth.

Good choice then.

[angrysoba]

Personally I still refer to those lands as "The Colonies".

[sackett]

Yeah, well, when you're crossing into Canadia (see my location? we do that a lot) an American had better answer "US" respectfully when the border guard asks for your nationality.

Border guards have way too much power. Anywhere in the world.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Also problematic, since it derives from "Yankee" and is a term for only a part of the country. Much like calling Iran "Persia" was a slight to all the other regions of Iran that aren't Persia.

And of course it doesn't help that one region of the country is still big mad about the Yankee region winning some sort of scuffle they had a while back, I'm not clear on the details but it seemed to mostly involve statues in parks and the naming of streets.

Understood.

Quote:

Yankee is sometimes abbreviated as “Yank.” People from all over the world, including Great Britain, Australia, and South America, use the term to describe Americans. (In Spanish, it’s spelled yanqui.) Sometimes, it's a negative description. Other times, it's a playful term.

https://education.nationalgeographic...esource/yankee

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

Yeah, and unless I'm mistaken, we're the only country to use the denonym "American". This is a solution looking for a problem.

It's a solution looking for a scapegoat.

[Masque]

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

Where next? The University of Stanford has, in it's release of a, "harmful language", list, identified that people from the United States only, may be insinuating that the U.S. is the most important country in the Americas if using the word, "American", to describe themselves.

I've heard this bandied about since I was in grade school 60 years ago. Nothing new under the sun. Doesn't seem to have made much of a difference in the world.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by jt512

After being widely ridiculed for calling for elimination of the word "American," Stanford required a log-in to view its list of "harmful" words. Fortunately, the Wall Street Journal saved a copy of the list, which can viewed here.

I don't see "Semprini" on there.

[TragicMonkey]

Seems to me that we've managed to get along with the ambiguity for this long. It's not like the situation over the name "Macedonia", for contrast. Didn't one of them go so far as to Prince their name so they were the Artist Formerly Known As?

If we do vote to change it, I think we should simplify and just drop the "Ame" to become "Rica". Possibly even...."Rica Suave". Yes, that sounds okay.

[Hevneren]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Seems to me that we've managed to get along with the ambiguity for this long. It's not like the situation over the name "Macedonia", for contrast. Didn't one of them go so far as to Prince their name so they were the Artist Formerly Known As?

If we do vote to change it, I think we should simplify and just drop the "Ame" to become "Rica". Possibly even...."Rica Suave". Yes, that sounds okay.

Those were good times. I knew a Greek guy back then. He went absolutely ballistic over the dirty ******* Albanians in Skopje trying to steal HIS proud heritage. Alexander the Great and stuff.

[Axxman300]

Originally Posted by Steve

This issue would never have arisen if the USA had chosen a better/more interesting name for their country.

I could be wrong, but I think Ben Franklin pitched "Awesomeland", but was shot down by the Continental Congress...Yeah...I'm probably wrong.

[I think we called ourselves Americans early on after the Revolution just to emphasize we were no longer British citizens, and the name stuck.]

[Gulliver Foyle]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Also problematic, since it derives from "Yankee" and is a term for only a part of the country. Much like calling Iran "Persia" was a slight to all the other regions of Iran that aren't Persia.

And of course it doesn't help that one region of the country is still big mad about the Yankee region winning some sort of scuffle they had a while back, I'm not clear on the details but it seemed to mostly involve statues in parks and the naming of streets.

Always fun when we get one of the latter and they have a conniption.

Originally Posted by Hevneren

Those were good times. I knew a Greek guy back then. He went absolutely ballistic over the dirty ******* Albanians in Skopje trying to steal HIS proud heritage. Alexander the Great and stuff.

Which is ironic, because in ancient Greece, Macedonia was almost barbarian country. Most Greeks of the time wouldn't have considered either Philip or Alexander a proper Greek.

[sarge]

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

True.

But it is also true that the term "American" "insinuates that the US is the most important country in the Americas (which is actually made up of 42 countries)".

No it doesn’t.

Our attitude throughout much of our history does insinuate that we consider ourselves the most important country in the Americas, and by some measures this is simply true. Our attitude has also demonstrated that many of us are obnoxiously xenophobic.

Quote:

They say you should call yourselves "US Citizens". Doubt that'll happen, if even those accused of being "woke" on the forum don't want to give up being "American".

I'm Australian (disclaimer), but I'd like to hear from other citizens of central/south America on this.

We should simply keep calling ourselves what the entire world recognizes us as…..Americans.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

It appears this inclusion is the result of some laziness on the part of the Stanford University IT Community's Elimination of Harmful Language Initiative and on the part of old pot stirring by conservative media.

The document created by EFLI includes the sources of the entries on their list. The entry for "American" comes from an archived web page for XSEDE. The Extreme Science and Engineering Discovery Environment was a National Science Foundation project to provide digital resources to scientists and researchers. The Terminology Task Force published a terminology list with entries taken from a number of sources. The "American" entry was taken from a document created for the Inclusive Communications Task Force at Colorado State University.

That Inclusive Language Guide was published by the university newspaper where it then was frequently referenced by conservative media as an example of liberals gone crazy with political correctness. The university then explained that the document was draft document created by a small group of students as possible proposals to a language guide and that the group itself had rejected that entry prior to submission and therefore was never adopted a policy by the university.

The frequent references to the document by conservative media no doubt caused the document to frequently appear when searching for official academic terminology lists, and some of the entries made it on to other lists such as XSEDE which then carried over to the ELHI list.

Stanford has since issued a statement that the document is not official university policy at that the term "American" is not prohibited or even discouraged and that the entry is only included because it may be imprecise in some contexts. I think Stanford is backpedaling and looking for excuses for an entry that was only included by virtue of the path I described. But they certainly never said that it was "problematic" for someone to "identify" as "American".

As others have pointed out, the terms "America" and "American" can be problematic. If I recall correctly, when the Politics section was split it was initially called "USAian Politics" for that very reason until people complained that the name was too silly. My recollection of discussion at the time was that people in South and Central America and some other countries find "America" and "American" to be odd and somewhat confusing because in some other language the name of the country is always a translation of "United States" and "America" is used to refer toa continent or set of continents.

It is a problematic word due to potential ambiguity, but there are not really any effective practical alternatives other than specifying what is meant by the term within a certain context. I think the list should be updated to either remove the entry altogether or at least specify that the issue is ambiguity rather than some sense of superiority and eliminate the rather impractical suggestion of US citizen" as an alternative.

Otherwise--meh. Tempest in a teapot.

Thought I’d quote this post as it seems most people posting after it was posted didn’t read it!