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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , assault incidents , Chicago incidents , Jussie Smollett

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Old 13th March 2019, 02:04 PM   #3081
yeti101
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Geragos will portray the brothers as lying money grabbers who would stoop as low as beating up a poor guy at 2am while wearing concealing clothing and yelling hateful words.

His job is to make the jury hate the brothers and not trust them to tell the truth about anything. Geragos will dig up every bit of dirt that he possibly can on them.

The brothers and their family will be both crying and enraged when Geragos gets rolling on them.
ok but they're going to have to explain how the heck they knew he would be there at 2am? they will have to provide a motive, Smollette just paid them $3.5k lol not exactly a good reason to beat someone up.

seriously. if its just a judge he will laugh in Smolletts lawyers face. a jury is more unpredictable but should still see through it.
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Old 13th March 2019, 02:35 PM   #3082
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Originally Posted by yeti101 View Post
ok but they're going to have to explain how the heck they knew he would be there at 2am?
They were on the phone with him. The records show the phone calls. The scumbags rode in different cars as if they wanted secrecy then they beat the crap out of him and even put bleach and a noose. Look at his injuries - let's show the pictures to the jury.

Quote:
they will have to provide a motive, Smollette just paid them $3.5k lol not exactly a good reason to beat someone up.
No clue what the motive was. Just scumbags apparently. Violent criminal gay bashing scum.

Mark Geragos will be foaming at the mouth and screaming and pointing at the brothers.
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Old 13th March 2019, 02:38 PM   #3083
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LMAO! ok I'll get my popcorn this will be amazing tv
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Old 13th March 2019, 04:20 PM   #3084
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
They were on the phone with him. The records show the phone calls. The scumbags rode in different cars as if they wanted secrecy then they beat the crap out of him and even put bleach and a noose. Look at his injuries - let's show the pictures to the jury.


No clue what the motive was. Just scumbags apparently. Violent criminal gay bashing scum.

Mark Geragos will be foaming at the mouth and screaming and pointing at the brothers.
Cain does this waaaay better.
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Old 14th March 2019, 03:27 AM   #3085
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
They were on the phone with him. The records show the phone calls. The scumbags rode in different cars as if they wanted secrecy then they beat the crap out of him and even put bleach and a noose. Look at his injuries - let's show the pictures to the jury.


No clue what the motive was. Just scumbags apparently. Violent criminal gay bashing scum.

Mark Geragos will be foaming at the mouth and screaming and pointing at the brothers.
How did the two big strong athletic brothers manage to only lightly scratch his face during this gay bashing beating? Not even a bloody nose or lip.

Oh yeah, he fought the fark back...
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Old 14th March 2019, 04:32 AM   #3086
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed, speculation. The brothers' careers would be over if they take an immunity deal. Would you hire them? But if they and Smollett stick together, they still have a future, with more notoriety than before. Simple no-snitch loyalty, and everyone wins, assuming there is no smoking gun laying around that CPD has a lid on. Smollett welcoming cameras sounds like he is trying his hand at directing again.
Tim Allen (Home Improvement) was a drug dealer who was arrested for about a pound and a half of cocaine at an airport in the late 70s. He ratted out fellow dealers for a reduced sentence and served less than three years in jail. His career certainly has not been hampered by being a rat.
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:10 AM   #3087
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Tim Allen (Home Improvement) was a drug dealer who was arrested for about a pound and a half of cocaine at an airport in the late 70s. He ratted out fellow dealers for a reduced sentence and served less than three years in jail. His career certainly has not been hampered by being a rat.
And it's giving a lot of credit to a guy who was too stupid to take a little bit of time to toss some nastier language into his fake hate mail.
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:21 AM   #3088
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Tim Allen (Home Improvement) was a drug dealer who was arrested for about a pound and a half of cocaine at an airport in the late 70s. He ratted out fellow dealers for a reduced sentence and served less than three years in jail. His career certainly has not been hampered by being a rat.
His career was ended by being a rat. He did a radical 180 turn and was in the rare position of having a completely different skill set in being a talented stand-up comedian, of which only the tiniest of percentages are successful and an even tinier percentage able to parlay it on to a TV career. The overwhelming majority have no such secondary world-class skills.

You think the brothers have the ability to become successful hedge fund managers or something? By the look of it, they are burning every bridge available to them.
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:48 AM   #3089
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We haven't even heard about text messages. Who talks on the phone anymore?
I'll bet they've got texts too.

"Are you guys ready to do that thing we talked about?"

"My flight is late"

"Change to 2AM"
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:51 AM   #3090
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
How did the two big strong athletic brothers manage to only lightly scratch his face during this gay bashing beating? Not even a bloody nose or lip.

Oh yeah, he fought the fark back...
IMO, the face scratches are self-inflicted using fingernails. They weren't the result of punches or any kind of strikes coming from the brothers. Also IMO, the face shows no bruising or swelling.

He claimed kicks to the body. That would result in bruising. We don't have photos for that but maybe the hospital examined him everywhere and has a written exam of what they saw. Or didn't see.

IMO, they were extremely gentle with him and no bruising would be found anywhere. IMO, what was supposed to represent the assault was the fingernail scratches, the noose and the bleach. Those things were presented instead of genuine bruising, genuine lacerations and possibly even broken bones.
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:53 AM   #3091
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After Michelle Obama's former aide's urging, prosecutor pushed for FBI to investigate Smollett

Quote:
Tina Tchen, who worked as former first lady Michelle Obama’s chief of staff during her time in the White House, first contacted Kim Foxx by text on Feb. 1 and said the actor's family had "concerns" about the investigation, according to the communications. Tchen, a Chicago-based attorney, is also the co-founder of the Times Up Legal Defense Fund.

At the time of the correspondence, Smollett was still considered by police to be the victim of an assault.
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:00 AM   #3092
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
IMO, the face scratches are self-inflicted using fingernails. They weren't the result of punches or any kind of strikes coming from the brothers. Also IMO, the face shows no bruising or swelling.

He claimed kicks to the body. That would result in bruising. We don't have photos for that but maybe the hospital examined him everywhere and has a written exam of what they saw. Or didn't see.

IMO, they were extremely gentle with him and no bruising would be found anywhere. IMO, what was supposed to represent the assault was the fingernail scratches, the noose and the bleach. Those things were presented instead of genuine bruising, genuine lacerations and possibly even broken bones.
Seriously. I've been more beat up doing friendly sparring with gear on. It's not that hard to blacken an eye without really hurting the opponent. Takes a sharp strike, not a sledgehammer hit. I've had a shiner raised through light headgear with 7 oz MMA gloves that I laughed about when hit.

$3500 and they couldn't find an untracable way to buy props and get to the scene or even raise a bruise? Hope Smollett requests a refund.
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:08 AM   #3093
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Seriously. I've been more beat up doing friendly sparring with gear on. It's not that hard to blacken an eye without really hurting the opponent. Takes a sharp strike, not a sledgehammer hit. I've had a shiner raised through light headgear with 7 oz MMA gloves that I laughed about when hit.

$3500 and they couldn't find an untracable way to buy props and get to the scene or even raise a bruise? Hope Smollett requests a refund.
I can hear my father's voice in my head:

"If they we're serious about hurtin' that guy they did a piss-poor job. Shoulda eaten their Wheaties."
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:16 AM   #3094
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
FBI was investigating from Day One because they were already involved with Smollett's powder letter. There was no need to request for FBI because those guys were already on it. They were looking at the beating claim right away.

What this Smollett family member actually wanted was an end to the Chicago police leaks to the press. They believed that the FBI would not leak anything.
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:53 AM   #3095
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Seriously. I've been more beat up doing friendly sparring with gear on. It's not that hard to blacken an eye without really hurting the opponent. Takes a sharp strike, not a sledgehammer hit. I've had a shiner raised through light headgear with 7 oz MMA gloves that I laughed about when hit.

$3500 and they couldn't find an untracable way to buy props and get to the scene or even raise a bruise? Hope Smollett requests a refund.
Last I heard, they were apologizing because they were duped.

Um...duped into doing what, exactly?
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:57 AM   #3096
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Last I heard, they were apologizing because they were duped.

Um...duped into doing what, exactly?
Duped into participating in a crime. Duped into being accessories to a crime. Duped into participating in a conspiracy creating a crime.
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Old 14th March 2019, 07:06 AM   #3097
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Last I heard, they were apologizing because they were duped.

Um...duped into doing what, exactly?
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Duped into participating in a crime. Duped into being accessories to a crime. Duped into participating in a conspiracy creating a crime.
Yeah, if they can all stick to plausible deniability to the point where a jury can't find a specific crime proven beyond a reasonable doubt, they all go home. I think it's a viable strategy, no matter how it originated.
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Old 14th March 2019, 07:16 AM   #3098
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yeah, if they can all stick to plausible deniability to the point where a jury can't find a specific crime proven beyond a reasonable doubt, they all go home. I think it's a viable strategy, no matter how it originated.
??

The brothers have not been charged with anything, so no matter what comes out of their mouths they will be going home.
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Old 14th March 2019, 07:17 AM   #3099
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yeah, if they can all stick to plausible deniability to the point where a jury can't find a specific crime proven beyond a reasonable doubt, they all go home. I think it's a viable strategy, no matter how it originated.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.


What were they duped into? Beating Smolett up? well, that's extremely strange.

delivering him goods, at 2am, in the winter, when the polar vortex was dipping into Chicago? That's also bizarre.

The CPD is facing both a recent shooting of an unarmed black man, and the construction of an police academy that is being protested by activists, mostly because it's in the face of cutbacks to education. And given their long and ongoing history of corruption, they are questionable here.

Yet again, let them present evidence.

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Old 14th March 2019, 07:56 AM   #3100
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
??

The brothers have not been charged with anything, so no matter what comes out of their mouths they will be going home.
Not yet. They may end up being implicated in conspiracy or another crime, depending on how things play out. They're not out of the woods yet.
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Old 14th March 2019, 08:14 AM   #3101
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Not yet. They may end up being implicated in conspiracy or another crime, depending on how things play out. They're not out of the woods yet.
It's far too late for that. They won't be charged for anything with this bleach noose beatdown hoax.

They might be charged for a powder letter hoax if they are involved with that.
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Old 14th March 2019, 08:18 AM   #3102
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's far too late for that. They won't be charged for anything with this bleach noose beatdown hoax.

They might be charged for a powder letter hoax if they are involved with that.
And if new or contradictory evidence comes to light during the trial, implicating the brothers in unforeseen ways?
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Old 14th March 2019, 08:37 AM   #3103
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And if new or contradictory evidence comes to light during the trial, implicating the brothers in unforeseen ways?
Are you talking about hearsay?

Look, if Smollett has forensic evidence implicating the brothers in ways that the prosecutor doesn't already know about... then why the hell wouldn't Geragos present it right now? Get the charges against your client dropped RIGHT NOW instead of at the trial.

Think about what you are suggesting. I think you are thinking wrong.

ETA: The prosecutor even knows that the brothers are Molly dealers. They just aren't going to be charged by Chicago PD.
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Old 14th March 2019, 08:51 AM   #3104
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As expected, Smollett has pleaded not guilty to the 16 charges. Now does he have to post bail for those charges, or is his original $100,000 bail going to cover all of these new charges?
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Old 14th March 2019, 08:54 AM   #3105
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Are you talking about hearsay?

Look, if Smollett has forensic evidence implicating the brothers in ways that the prosecutor doesn't already know about... then why the hell wouldn't Geragos present it right now? Get the charges against your client dropped RIGHT NOW instead of at the trial.

Think about what you are suggesting. I think you are thinking wrong.

ETA: The prosecutor even knows that the brothers are Molly dealers. They just aren't going to be charged by Chicago PD.
You think Geragos has analyzed all the data already, including whatever experts he might need? Has Smollett testified or given his whole version publicly yet? Are you sure the brothers' reporting to the police will be found credible under scrutiny? CPD treating them as witnesses likely holds out for as long as their info is credible. what if it comes out that they lied to CPD? Think they will enjoy immunity?

Geragos may be working as we speak to find the evidence he needs to support his client's claim of innocence. He may find it before trial (possibly). Why do you assert that he must have evidence right now?
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Old 14th March 2019, 09:28 AM   #3106
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Not yet. They may end up being implicated in conspiracy or another crime, depending on how things play out. They're not out of the woods yet.
If the prosecution were to grant the brothers use immunity - meaning they could not be prosecuted for any information provided to the prosecution for any crime, even for criminal activity not related to the instant case (outside of perjury) they can be compelled to testify.

At that point, it would be talk or go directly to jail.
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Old 14th March 2019, 09:39 AM   #3107
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
If the prosecution were to grant the brothers use immunity - meaning they could not be prosecuted for any information provided to the prosecution for any crime, even for criminal activity not related to the instant case (outside of perjury) they can be compelled to testify.

At that point, it would be talk or go directly to jail.
Those are the lines I have been thinking along. If something is presented by Smollett et al during discovery that the brothers did not want revealed or to testify about, their immunity might be off the table.

If their testimony given to the police is found to be false, what happens to their immunity?

If they are implicated in larger crimes than they had let on to, does the immunity deal extend to those, too?
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Old 14th March 2019, 10:09 AM   #3108
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
His career was ended by being a rat. He did a radical 180 turn and was in the rare position of having a completely different skill set in being a talented stand-up comedian, of which only the tiniest of percentages are successful and an even tinier percentage able to parlay it on to a TV career. The overwhelming majority have no such secondary world-class skills.

You think the brothers have the ability to become successful hedge fund managers or something? By the look of it, they are burning every bridge available to them.

Seriously?!?
If being a rat is an obstacle to a career in entertainment then Tim Allen would never had got a chance to show any talent he had - much less turn it into a career.

As for the highlighted bit - I actually don't know where to start. Should I ask how you are able to tell the abilities and future potential of people by watching a clip or two on TV? Maybe the grainy photograph tells all? Is it the fact that they have lots of muscles and therefore couldn't be bright?
Or, is mumbles actually right about the attitude of some of the posters on this board? White guy drug dealing rat has brains and talent but two black brothers could never have brains and talent?
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Old 14th March 2019, 10:27 AM   #3109
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so he actually plead not guilty.

no idea how he's getting away with it. maybe the fancy lawyer has something up his sleeve?

justice would be some jail time for Smollett.
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Old 14th March 2019, 01:48 PM   #3110
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Tim Allen (Home Improvement) was a drug dealer who was arrested for about a pound and a half of cocaine at an airport in the late 70s. He ratted out fellow dealers for a reduced sentence and served less than three years in jail. His career certainly has not been hampered by being a rat.

That's what celebrities do! The reason why so many of them do and say such idiotic things is because they are stupid and/or f'd up in the head enough to be celebrities in the first place.

These people are fricking idiots. That's why they can't hold a real job!
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Old 14th March 2019, 02:49 PM   #3111
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Seriously?!?
If being a rat is an obstacle to a career in entertainment then Tim Allen would never had got a chance to show any talent he had - much less turn it into a career.

As for the highlighted bit - I actually don't know where to start. Should I ask how you are able to tell the abilities and future potential of people by watching a clip or two on TV? Maybe the grainy photograph tells all? Is it the fact that they have lots of muscles and therefore couldn't be bright?
Or, is mumbles actually right about the attitude of some of the posters on this board? White guy drug dealing rat has brains and talent but two black brothers could never have brains and talent?
I think it has more to do with the fact they are e dealing gym rat, extras with enough of a lack of sense to go along with this plan in the first place that obviously rely on their looks versus acting talent.

But please try to pretend its skin tone that's informing this decision.

I hate when people try to play the " but it could be racist" card to win an arguement.
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:24 PM   #3112
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I see we have a few true believers left...........
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:48 PM   #3113
Leftus
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
How did the two big strong athletic brothers manage to only lightly scratch his face during this gay bashing beating? Not even a bloody nose or lip.

Oh yeah, he fought the fark back...
And didn't drop his sandwich. Fought off two people and saved his foot long.
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Old 14th March 2019, 07:45 PM   #3114
Thermal
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Seriously?!?
If being a rat is an obstacle to a career in entertainment then Tim Allen would never had got a chance to show any talent he had - much less turn it into a career.
No one said it was anything was specific to an entertainment career. Being a rat tends to end whatever career path you are on. Like Allen ended his drug dealing by ratting? His career running coke ended when he dimed out others. He had to start over with an unrelated gig. Do you understand now?

Quote:
As for the highlighted bit - I actually don't know where to start. Should I ask how you are able to tell the abilities and future potential of people by watching a clip or two on TV? Maybe the grainy photograph tells all? Is it the fact that they have lots of muscles and therefore couldn't be bright?
Wow. You really showed your hand here. Virtually every other poster has been evaluating the brothers by their reported actions. I have, too. But you go straight to judging based on what someone looks like, huh? Says it all, really.

Quote:
Or, is mumbles actually right about the attitude of some of the posters on this board? White guy drug dealing rat has brains and talent but two black brothers could never have brains and talent?
In addition to sadhatter's comment, Allen (who you brought up) has demonstrated his talent in his new career. Nothing to do with assuming anything based on his color; his comedic success is demonstrable. The brothers have shown buffonery in every reported action. This isn't a racial thing. Hell the whole thing is way more a gay thing as Smollett portrayed it. Really, really interesting, this racial angle and judging by looks thing you have introduced...
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:12 AM   #3115
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Those are the lines I have been thinking along. If something is presented by Smollett et al during discovery that the brothers did not want revealed or to testify about, their immunity might be off the table.

If their testimony given to the police is found to be false, what happens to their immunity?

If they are implicated in larger crimes than they had let on to, does the immunity deal extend to those, too?
If a bad actor is granted use immunity and confesses to hitting JFK, MLK and RFK and it can be determined that they're telling the truth, they'd walk.

If a bad actor is granted use immunity and commits perjury at any point, they can be prosecuted for the whole shebang.

Prosecutors are very careful in employing use immunity - transactional immunity is the usual tactic.
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Old 15th March 2019, 06:17 AM   #3116
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
If a bad actor is granted use immunity and confesses to hitting JFK, MLK and RFK and it can be determined that they're telling the truth, they'd walk.

If a bad actor is granted use immunity and commits perjury at any point, they can be prosecuted for the whole shebang.

Prosecutors are very careful in employing use immunity - transactional immunity is the usual tactic.
Thanks, that's what I was getting at. Some think immunity is a get out of jail free card. I was pretty sure it can be revoked under some circumstances, including a discovery of perjury.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:52 PM   #3117
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Smollett may be lying to his attorneys.

If so, it's not going to work out well for him.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:56 PM   #3118
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Smollett may be lying to his attorneys.

If so, it's not going to work out well for him.
There are two people you should never lie to.

Your Attorney or your Doctor.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:20 PM   #3119
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Smollett telling the truth to Geragos: Yeah so I told them to get the bleach and the rope for the fake attack...
Geragos: Stop, that's enough, we will plead guilty tomorrow morning.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:34 PM   #3120
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Geragos: You don't have any signs of being beaten up, and you say you fought back, how did they manage to get a rope around your neck, and pour bleach on you?

Smollett: I don't know, the rope just appeared around my neck, i didn't even notice until later.

Geragos: ...
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