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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , assault incidents , Chicago incidents , Jussie Smollett

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Old 31st January 2019, 02:46 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
My unhelpful anecdote would be that 2 white guys mugging a black guy in Streeterville sounds pretty unusual. But I was wondering about this so I looked and found a summary of a study. Here's the link to the PDF of the original study.



Short version - the vast majority of violent crimes are committed by folks of the same race as the victim. White on black would be rare, as black on white would also be rare (just very slightly less rare).
I was referring to street muggings in the Loop and streeterville...
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:47 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
This is the one fact abut the incident that you want to question?!
Given what is out there to be gleaned (very little), whether or not the substance was bleach says a lot about the incident as reported.
Bleach being a chemical that whitens things.
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:47 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
......Short version - the vast majority of violent crimes are committed by folks of the same race as the victim. White on black would be rare.......
One in nine isn't that rare.
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:49 PM   #324
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By the way? This weird substance that they allegedly poured on our hero?

Betcha a nickel that it comes back as calcium chloride....
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:49 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Given what is out there to be gleaned (very little), whether or not the substance was bleach says a lot about the incident as reported.
Bleach being a chemical that whitens things.
Sure, it's got the lot

"MAGA country" - Trump

"Faggot" - Homophobic

"******" - Racist

Bleach - Let's whiten that black skin!

A noose - Traditional KKK fare

And all in 60 seconds.
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:50 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
What is narrowing down the possibility that this attack occurred on the way back from Subway is the time frame and the video cameras.

There's nothing else that I would question as "impossible" in the story.
Yes, I thought that was already established since he didn't have the string around his neck at the Subway. However, early reporting by TMZ(?) said something like he was beaten up on his way to Subway giving the impression that the attack had occurred before he arrived at Subway.
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:52 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Sure, it's got the lot

"MAGA country" - Trump

"Faggot" - Homophobic

"******" - Racist

Bleach - Let's whiten that black skin!

A noose - Traditional KKK fare

And all in 60 seconds.
Sixty seconds is not necessarily too short of a time for what was reported to have taken place (if it did, actually take place), especially if the victim were taken completely unaware.
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:57 PM   #328
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I find it curious that the MAGA Country hate crime doers did all this in the sixty seconds before he got in the building, but our hero did not ask for help from building security which might have, you know, led to them identifying and maybe catching the hate crime doers?
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:01 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
This is the one fact abut the incident that you want to question?!
Well, no, but I thought that I might have missed some information somewhere. You know that not everyone is coming at this as 'confirm my bias!', right?

It could be important who is claiming what. Smollett could have been wrong about what it was if he claimed it was bleach, but it doesn't appear he ever claimed that. It would be bad for people to be calling his account a lie on the basis that it couldn't have been bleach when he never claimed it was.

Also, the police could be mistaken on the smell as well.
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:02 PM   #330
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With the lack of photographic evidence, I think it's obvious at this point, he was attacked by a bigfoot. Actually, I guess it was two bigfoot. What's the plural of bigfoot? Bigfeet?
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:03 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
One in nine isn't that rare.
2.8 per 1,000 would indeed be rare. You're forgetting that the crime itself is rare, and then only 1 in 9 of that rare event meets the parameter that you are considering.



Rare - dude gets mugged
Even rarer - dude gets mugged by member of another race


Not to mention getting mugged in that neighborhood is much rarer than it would be elsewhere.
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:03 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Sixty seconds is not necessarily too short of a time for what was reported to have taken place (if it did, actually take place), especially if the victim were taken completely unaware.
Not impossible, but somewhat unlikely. It's like a textbook racist crime, with all the pertinent features crammed into 60 seconds of time which were not recorded on CCTV and which were not witnessed by anybody else.

This appears to have been a concern to Mr Smollett too, on reflection, because some time afterwards he and his manager make a statement that they were speaking on the phone at the time of the attack and the manager heard what went on and exactly what was said. Strangely enough, Mr Smollett refuses to hand over his phone records to the cops so they can verify this evidence which, at the current time, is the only piece of alleged evidence in the entire case.
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:09 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
With the lack of photographic evidence, I think it's obvious at this point, he was attacked by a bigfoot. Actually, I guess it was two bigfoot. What's the plural of bigfoot? Bigfeet?
Bigpodes.
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:14 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Not impossible, but somewhat unlikely. It's like a textbook racist crime, with all the pertinent features crammed into 60 seconds of time which were not recorded on CCTV and which were not witnessed by anybody else.

This appears to have been a concern to Mr Smollett too, on reflection, because some time afterwards he and his manager make a statement that they were speaking on the phone at the time of the attack and the manager heard what went on and exactly what was said. Strangely enough, Mr Smollett refuses to hand over his phone records to the cops so they can verify this evidence which, at the current time, is the only piece of alleged evidence in the entire case.
We know that he was walking around outside within the time frame of the alleged attack.

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Old 31st January 2019, 03:18 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
2.8 per 1,000 would indeed be rare. You're forgetting that the crime itself is rare, and then only 1 in 9 of that rare event meets the parameter that you are considering.



Rare - dude gets mugged
Even rarer - dude gets mugged by member of another race


Not to mention getting mugged in that neighborhood is much rarer than it would be elsewhere.
And yet rare events happen. That doesn't really tell us much about whether this one did.
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:19 PM   #336
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The family of Jussie Smollett says the “Empire” actor was the target of “domestic terrorism” in Tuesday’s racist and homophobic alleged MAGA attack in Chicago.

scratch on cheek = Domestic terrorism

oy vey....

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Old 31st January 2019, 03:20 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
2.8 per 1,000 would indeed be rare. You're forgetting that the crime itself is rare, and then only 1 in 9 of that rare event meets the parameter that you are considering.



Rare - dude gets mugged
Even rarer - dude gets mugged by member of another race


Not to mention getting mugged in that neighborhood is much rarer than it would be elsewhere.
Was it reported to be a "mugging", was he robbed?
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:22 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
We know that he was walking around outside within the time frame of the alleged attack.
But that's just evidence he was walking around, nobody doubts that.
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:25 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Was it reported to be a "mugging", was he robbed?
No, it was just assault. Nothing was taken, not even his phone. The attackers didn't even care if he called the police immediately or if he began to film them after the attack.
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:33 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Given what is out there to be gleaned (very little), whether or not the substance was bleach says a lot about the incident as reported.
Bleach being a chemical that whitens things.


Yes, notably clothing. Any reports of bleach damage to his clothing? That would have made it obvious.


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Old 31st January 2019, 03:38 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
And yet rare events happen. That doesn't really tell us much about whether this one did.
I don't recall saying that it didn't happen? I was responding to another poster who seems to think that we are all getting mugged by white guys all over the place in "urban America."

Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
What on earth is extraordinary about a lone black man being mugged by white guys on the streets of urban America? His producer said "Just another ...'n day in America".*

I ran the crime stats on the Chicago Police website. In a one-mile diameter circle around the address where this happened, there were 2 robberies, 1 aggravated assault and 1 aggravated battery in the 2 weeks prior. This includes the Magnificent Mile shopping district, where is a metric **** ton of foot traffic.




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Old 31st January 2019, 03:44 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
No, it was just assault. Nothing was taken, not even his phone. The attackers didn't even care if he called the police immediately or if he began to film them after the attack.
Which begs the question, why didn't he try and get pictures of his attackers as they fled?
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:44 PM   #343
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I read early on that Smollett wasn't cooperating with police in the role of what would be expected for a crime victim. He didn't want to help with the investigation. Then later read that he is cooperating. Maybe at first he didn't want to and then later did.

One example might be that he didn't talk about the MAGA thing with police but only did later after one of his acquaintances talked about it publicly.

A variety of things suggest to me that he never wanted the lie to be known to the police or the public. He did not want to risk being found out that he had lied. He only wanted that guy in the condo to hear the lie. Whatever he had to gain from telling the lie was going to come from that condo guy. If there was to be risk of being discovered as a liar it was going to come from that condo guy. Nobody else.
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:46 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Which begs the question, why didn't he try and get pictures of his attackers as they fled?
Or just recorded himself and shown what had happened to him. These celebs don't seem to need an excuse to blog into their phones, but apparently not in this instance.
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:48 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I read early on that Smollett wasn't cooperating with police in the role of what would be expected for a crime victim. He didn't want to help with the investigation. Then later read that he is cooperating. Maybe at first he didn't want to and then later did.

One example might be that he didn't talk about the MAGA thing with police but only did later after one of his acquaintances talked about it publicly.

A variety of things suggest to me that he never wanted the lie to be known to the police or the public. He did not want to risk being found out that he had lied. He only wanted that guy in the condo to hear the lie. Whatever he had to gain from telling the lie was going to come from that condo guy. If there was to be risk of being discovered as a liar it was going to come from that condo guy. Nobody else.
That's actually an interesting scenario. After all, if he had wanted to call the police he would have called them directly after he was attacked.
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:51 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Any reports of bleach damage to his clothing? That would have made it obvious.
No, but I don't know if his clothing was taken as evidence.

Pure bleach will have a powerful smell and begin to "bleach out" clothing within minutes. Something that will smell like bleach but not quickly effect clothing is chlorinated pool water.
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:53 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Which begs the question, why didn't he try and get pictures of his attackers as they fled?
A violent racial and homophobic hatred attack will leave anybody in a state of shock. A form of paralysis. The attackers don't even have to run. The paralysis allows them to walk away.
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Old 31st January 2019, 04:00 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
No, but I don't know if his clothing was taken as evidence.

Pure bleach will have a powerful smell and begin to "bleach out" clothing within minutes. Something that will smell like bleach but not quickly effect clothing is chlorinated pool water.
Google says household bleach freezes at around 19 degrees F., and freezing accelerates its breakdown/loss of potency.
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Old 31st January 2019, 04:14 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
As stated, if it had not been for the MAGA country chant, we would not be having this discussion.
And it's not the first time a lot of crap is being promoted under the guise of "Critical Thinking".
And I am going to bell the cat. Most of the supporters here of the SMolett is faking it theory are on the political right.
Really, the actual skeptical position is "the police are investigating, let's wait and see what they find." I don't really trust a PD that very recently conspired to cover up a murder by one of their own, but since we're discussing a celebrity here, I expect they'll be on their best behavior.

Again, my opinion will not change anything, so I'm perfectly happy to say I hope they catch the guys who did this - and change my opinion *if* it turns out to be a hoax. But like Tyr said, "that sounds unlikely to me." is simply not a good reason to think that it's a hoax, and such hoaxes are statistically rare compared to actual hate crimes (same as with rape, robbery, shootings, and every other crime), so may as well play the odds.

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
It was obvious when talking about Tom Brady's phone, but not now. Odd right?
Eh, it's a thread about a black guy, and as always, some of the participants put their hatred of black people above all else. I know who they are, have known who they are for years, so I've long since stopped reading their racist crap. If they find it implausible that what I said would be a concern, they're just showing who they are, yet again.

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Old 31st January 2019, 04:17 PM   #350
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That the thing about the Chicago Police Department;it never gets any better, only the scandals they are involved with change. Back in the 1920's practically the wholr force was on Al Capone's payroll.
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Old 31st January 2019, 04:34 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Google says household bleach freezes at around 19 degrees F., and freezing accelerates its breakdown/loss of potency.
Ok.

They said the air temperature was around 5F. Body heat might keep the bleach unfrozen when in a pocket or even on clothing. If the bleach was liquid when tossed on his clothes I would expect the clothes to become ruined before the temperature stopped the bleach from doing anything. Plus he's back indoors fairly quickly anyway.
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Old 31st January 2019, 04:45 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Which begs the question, why didn't he try and get pictures of his attackers as they fled?
He was still having that conversation with his manager so his phone was in use. The attackers didn't grab it and smash it because of common courtesy. Let the guy just keep talking. We can do the noose and bleach and punches and he can do his phone talking.
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Old 31st January 2019, 04:54 PM   #353
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Were the two doods in whatever video seen sitting on the bench reading the morning newspaper early edition. How cold was it and what are they doing sitting on that bench? And for how long. I know whenever I mugged someone I always sat on a bench and tried to look casual for a while, but that was in warmer seasons. I think we have a bench-gap that needs to be examined.

(Am I doing it right?)
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Old 31st January 2019, 05:06 PM   #354
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With regards to handing over the phone (the reporting doesn't have a lot of context and sometimes it says phone, sometimes phone records), I've actually thought about similar scenarios rather often. I probably wouldn't just hand it over to CPD. In addition, the majority of hate crimes go unreported. How "compliant" an alleged victim is doesn't seem like a reliable metric to me.
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Old 31st January 2019, 05:07 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Google says household bleach freezes at around 19 degrees F., and freezing accelerates its breakdown/loss of potency.

But Google is part of the liberal neo-Marxist conspiracy.

You can't trust Google.
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Old 31st January 2019, 05:09 PM   #356
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There are three possible outcomes from this:

He got attacked and most or all of the story is true. If so, I'll admit that I was wrong.

The story is a lie and it's to cover up something he considers even more embarassing. I that case I will say "Told ya!"

It's actually something no one even thought of.

I'm open to all possibilities. In any case it's unfortunate that he sustained some injuries.
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Old 31st January 2019, 05:13 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
With the lack of photographic evidence, I think it's obvious at this point, he was attacked by a bigfoot. Actually, I guess it was two bigfoot. What's the plural of bigfoot? Bigfeet?
Proudfoots
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Old 31st January 2019, 05:33 PM   #358
The Big Dog
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Oh baby, you knew it was coming. Chicago police bad! Going back to the 1920s even

Here is the Chicago police superintendent

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_T._Johnson

Uh oh, black superintendent!

But maybe the state’s attorney hates the black!

Uh oh.

Grifters gonna grift

Last edited by The Big Dog; 31st January 2019 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 31st January 2019, 05:34 PM   #359
xjx388
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
With regards to handing over the phone (the reporting doesn't have a lot of context and sometimes it says phone, sometimes phone records), I've actually thought about similar scenarios rather often. I probably wouldn't just hand it over to CPD. In addition, the majority of hate crimes go unreported. How "compliant" an alleged victim is doesn't seem like a reliable metric to me.


You don’t have to hand over the phone. Just a screenshot of the web page showing your account activity reflecting the call with your manager would do.

Like, I’m not famous but even if I suspected the local PD would leak my friends numbers, I would probably do at least this to corroborate my story.

If I’m attacked, i want the culprits caught. I will cooperate 100% with anything the cops need from me.

When I don’t...skepticism is warranted.


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Old 31st January 2019, 05:39 PM   #360
theprestige
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I'm thinking Condo Guy is a whistleblower. Had enough of Smollett's habitual fabulism, and decides enough is enough. Calls his bluff, and calls the cops.
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