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Old 9th March 2019, 07:59 AM   #401
bluesjnr
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I'm struggling to find a solitary ounce of sympathy; all the while realising what that says about me.

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Old 9th March 2019, 08:02 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The BBC and SKY journalists plus attendant camera crews had no problems at all going here and back.
No doubt they have suitable paperwork and are not current/ex ISIS members? I'd guess it would have taken a concerted and possibly lengthy diplomatic intervention to extract an individual refugee.

eta:

'There are currently no British diplomats in Syria because of security risks. If Begum wanted to return to the UK, she would have “to make her way to Turkey or Iraq to consular services there”, [the UK security minister] added.'
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Old 9th March 2019, 08:36 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Begum is not an innocent victim by any stretch of imagination but she did beg the British government to let her return to the UK with her expected newborn. It could and should have said yes, as she was clearly a vulnerable individual.
You make it sound so simple and easy. There's millions of those in Syria alone. I don't see why she should expect any preferential treatment considering the circumstances behind her stay in the area, even if she happens to be a British citizen.

Quote:
The baby is an innocent victim.
And there are many more dying out there right now. They not a special.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I think something concerted now has to be done internationally to save those children in the Syrian refuge camps.
Again, she and her child isn't special. Syria isn't special. This is the kind of thing that's happening in pretty much every violent conflict on earth. There are already aid organizations in place to help with these situations but they can't work miracles.

The reason these peoples situation is so precarious is because they pretty much tried to hold out for as long as possible in a area that only became smaller and smaller. They only decided to escape when they ran out of food and had nowhere else to turn. They should be glad that they are still alive.
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Old 9th March 2019, 08:38 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The BBC and SKY journalists plus attendant camera crews had no problems at all going here and back.
They went from the UK straight to the refugee camp she was staying in for the express purpose of interviewing her? It's far more likely they were already in the area documenting the "last stand" of the caliphate which isn't even over.
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Last edited by Arcade22; 9th March 2019 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 9th March 2019, 09:03 AM   #405
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
You make it sound so simple and easy. There's millions of those in Syria alone. I don't see why she should expect any preferential treatment considering the circumstances behind her stay in the area, even if she happens to be a British citizen.
The death of babies in a refugee camp is tragic but why should this one entitle a person who rejected Britain in favour of ISIS to special treatment? If we are going to rescue people from the refugee camps lets start with those who were the innocent victims of the very group Begum so enthusiastically supported.
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Old 9th March 2019, 09:58 AM   #406
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Eh? Your UK nationality is not dependent on your personal views. You could be a serial murderer/rapist, a pension-fund raiding crook or granny-bashing mugger, yet still be 100% a British national.



Kimo sabe?
Which is not what you were saying, you were using her losing another baby (she seems quite careless with her children) as why we should be compassionate towards her. Since she had already lost two kids what makes it different now it is?
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Old 9th March 2019, 09:59 AM   #407
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Begum is not an innocent victim by any stretch of imagination but she did beg the British government to let her return to the UK with her expected newborn. It could and should have said yes, as she was clearly a vulnerable individual.



The baby is an innocent victim.
So why didn't she make an application to return to the UK?
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Old 9th March 2019, 09:59 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
According to a Save The Children spokesperson, the baby died from pneumonia as the refuge camps get very cold at night. People die from hypothermia. The young child just gets exhausted trying to breathe and dies through sheer lack of strength. The shame is, pneumonia is fully treatable with antibiotics and intensive care, had these been available.
Depends on the type of pneumonia.
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Old 9th March 2019, 10:00 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The BBC and SKY journalists plus attendant camera crews had no problems at all going here and back.
So why didn't she leave with them?
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Old 9th March 2019, 10:08 AM   #410
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
They went from the UK straight to the refugee camp she was staying in for the express purpose of interviewing her? It's far more likely they were already in the area documenting the "last stand" of the caliphate which isn't even over.
The initial interview came about by chance, the journalist recognised her.
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Old 9th March 2019, 10:29 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
She should be allowed back and tried and put in jail. This is a kid that was 15 when she left. I have some compassion for her, but not enough she shouldn't go to jail.

I am surprised the baby died that soon. Maybe these three kids had some kind of birth defect like a genetic heart problem.
Agree with the first paragraph.

I think that malnutrition and disease will do that, in winter.
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:58 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
The death of babies in a refugee camp is tragic but why should this one entitle a person who rejected Britain in favour of ISIS to special treatment? If we are going to rescue people from the refugee camps lets start with those who were the innocent victims of the very group Begum so enthusiastically supported.
Yeah. This.
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Old 9th March 2019, 03:01 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
According to a Save The Children spokesperson, the baby died from pneumonia as the refuge camps get very cold at night. People die from hypothermia. The young child just gets exhausted trying to breathe and dies through sheer lack of strength. The shame is, pneumonia is fully treatable with antibiotics and intensive care, had these been available.
Without an x-ray and at least a minimal work-up, I wouldn't put too much credence in the diagnosis of pneumonia. It's a catch-all diagnosis. Not that it couldn't be right, I'm just saying there could be other factors when you see three deaths like that.

And pneumonia is not always treatable with antibiotics.

RSV for example, is very common and has a high fatality rate in infants under 3 months. Respiratory Syncytial Virus.
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Old 9th March 2019, 04:27 PM   #414
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Can you imagine being a British citizen, doing good work somewhere dangerous, needing a rescue but not sure if you'll get one, because some terrorist comfort volunteer on the other side of the world managed to get noticed by a reporter?
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:02 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Can you imagine being a British citizen , doing good work somewhere dangerous, needing a rescue but not sure if you'll get one, because some terrorist comfort volunteer on the other side of the world managed to get noticed by a reporter?
Not since Brexit, no.
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:17 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
Not since Brexit, no.
Cry harder, off topic Mcgee.
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:27 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
The death of babies in a refugee camp is tragic but why should this one entitle a person who rejected Britain in favour of ISIS to special treatment? If we are going to rescue people from the refugee camps lets start with those who were the innocent victims of the very group Begum so enthusiastically supported.
The baby was an innocent victim. Primarily of his mother.
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:44 AM   #418
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I'm sorry she lost her children.

No matter what else she has done or not done, I don't wish that horror on anyone.
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:51 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
I'm sorry she lost her children.

No matter what else she has done or not done, I don't wish that horror on anyone.
I wish it on any member of a terrorist organization, white brown or otherwise. Children are future troops after a point, woke I'm not okay with targeting them, I have no sympathy for terrorist parents.
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Old 11th March 2019, 07:13 AM   #420
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Quote:
Children are future troops after a point
That's true.

I'm not sure exactly where I draw the line between total lack of sympathy because of a person's behavior, and at least being able to empathize with a parent's loss.
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Old 11th March 2019, 09:47 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
That's true.

I'm not sure exactly where I draw the line between total lack of sympathy because of a person's behavior, and at least being able to empathize with a parent's loss.
I feel bad for the kids, don't get me wrong. And id never say " now up the school to get rid of future troops" but if we are talking sympathy for the parent?

You choose to bring a kid into that situation. You failed as a parent.
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