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Tags airplane incidents , American Airlines

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Old 2nd March 2019, 11:34 PM   #1
Puppycow
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Flying on American Airlines while having a rare genetic skin condition

American Airlines apologizes to mom, baby kicked off flight for skin condition

Quote:
American Airlines has apologized to a South Carolina woman who was removed from a recent flight over concerns regarding the rare genetic skin disorder that affects both her and her baby son.

On Feb. 28 – which happens to be Rare Disease Day – Jordan Flake and baby Jackson boarded an American Airlines flight from El Paso, Texas, to Dallas, to visit her military husband before his deployment, Fox Carolina reports.

Soon after, Flake claims that an airline staffer approached her (on behalf of the American Airlines crew) about her "rash" and questioned if she had a letter from a doctor allowing her to fly, as detailed in a now-viral Facebook post.
It's not contagious of course, which is all they needed to know, and she told them, but the flight crew insisted that she needed a note from a doctor to fly.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 11:42 PM   #2
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I can understand the crew believing they needed a physician clearance, but the staff were ignorant when the woman knew her diagnosis and that it wasn't contagious.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 12:40 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I can understand the crew believing they needed a physician clearance, but the staff were ignorant when the woman knew her diagnosis and that it wasn't contagious.
I have some sympathy for the airline here. If a passenger had picked up a contagious condition but was desperate to get home then they might claim "it's genetic".
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Old 3rd March 2019, 12:47 AM   #4
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It sucks to be this woman, but I wouldn't take her word for it. Produce evidence. Anybody can say anything, "Believe me, this is my emotional therapy chihuahua." People lie. Or they could've Googled it. Maybe there decision was a bit rash.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 01:34 AM   #5
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I have some sympathy for the airline here. If a passenger had picked up a contagious condition but was desperate to get home then they might claim "it's genetic".
It's not hard to fake a doctor's note either.

People including the stewards can look that diagnosis up on their cell phones.

The problem here is no SOP in the steward's manual about how to manage the situation. I don't blame the staff, I blame the management.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 02:51 AM   #6
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It's an unfortunate surname, that's for sure.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 03:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
It's an unfortunate surname, that's for sure.
Was thinking the same thing Lol

At the end of the day the airline is responsible for all passengers.

If someone shows signs of something that might be catching, better safe than sorry.

A persons word doesn't mean diddly squat in these circumstances

They would be butchered if the let someone on with obvious signs of measles, saying they don't have it, but do for eg

Feel sympathy for them though.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 02:20 PM   #8
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Any baby removed from flight sounds good to me if I'm one of the passengers.

Amazing what makes national news these days. I guess i'd classify it under "people behaving imperfectly"

"Tonights top story: Person A did something that Person B may have been somewhat offended by...please be outraged!!!"


ETA:
Quote from mother via tweet:
"Jackson and I were just discriminated against...big time!"

Now you can just kiss my ass lady. You have a rare condition, and so does your baby and you feel discriminated against because you had problems getting on a plane? You're stupid.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 02:24 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's not hard to fake a doctor's note either.

People including the stewards can look that diagnosis up on their cell phones.

The problem here is no SOP in the steward's manual about how to manage the situation. I don't blame the staff, I blame the management.
Depending on what the condition was, it may not be simple to diagnose. Remember the crew are not medical experts. If they took a look at it and said "yes it is x" but it turned out they had something else then should they be held accountable?

The article said they could not retrieve their checked baggage. This is so wrong. If a passenger is not on board the plane neither should their baggage. No exceptions. Top terrorist tip. Board a plane with a bomb in your checked baggage. Then get kicked off the plane. Any excuse will do. They leave your checked baggage on board which explodes mid flight.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 02:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Was thinking the same thing Lol
She made a Facebook post about it. Apparently it's gone viral.

The post that is, not the skin condition...
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Old 3rd March 2019, 02:41 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Any baby removed from flight sounds good to me if I'm one of the passengers.

Amazing what makes national news these days. I guess i'd classify it under "people behaving imperfectly"

"Tonights top story: Person A did something that Person B may have been somewhat offended by...please be outraged!!!"


ETA:
Quote from mother via tweet:
"Jackson and I were just discriminated against...big time!"

Now you can just kiss my ass lady. You have a rare condition, and so does your baby and you feel discriminated against because you had problems getting on a plane? You're stupid.
She paid money for that seat and they weren't allowed to use that service. That's not 'problems getting on a plane' that's 'not reaching your destination as planned' and possibly 'paying more to arrive late'. This is not trivial despite your attempts to downplay the situation.

If you need an example, imagine the woman was rushing to the bedside of her dying mother to show off her grandson. She booked her flight, got there on time, did everything right, and now her mother will be dead by the time she can get a train or whatever. All so that you can say "ooooOOoOOh suck it lady, how dare you think you should get what you paid for?"
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Old 3rd March 2019, 02:51 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's not hard to fake a doctor's note either.

People including the stewards can look that diagnosis up on their cell phones.

The problem here is no SOP in the steward's manual about how to manage the situation. I don't blame the staff, I blame the management.
But with a fake note you now have proof the person was asked, and lied should there be any issues in the future, and if the note was real you have proof she can fly without harming others.

So by asking for the note they are covering their own ass, and more likely confirming it is safe to let this person fly.

By not asking for the note you ate giving yourself the warm fuzzies by being so super nice to this poor lady.

I know which action benefits more people in more real ways, do you?
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Old 3rd March 2019, 02:57 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
She paid money for that seat and they weren't allowed to use that service. That's not 'problems getting on a plane' that's 'not reaching your destination as planned' and possibly 'paying more to arrive late'. This is not trivial despite your attempts to downplay the situation.

If you need an example, imagine the woman was rushing to the bedside of her dying mother to show off her grandson. She booked her flight, got there on time, did everything right, and now her mother will be dead by the time she can get a train or whatever. All so that you can say "ooooOOoOOh suck it lady, how dare you think you should get what you paid for?"
What if in your fictional scenario she really did have a disease that could spread to others in the plane, but was so desperate to see her mother she didn't see a doctor and just went anyway.

If I'm going to tell someone to "suck it" id rather tell one person to do so than a plane full, and id rather the consequences be emotional than physical.

Then again my option doesn't make me feel like a saint because I'm willing to take the side of whoever seems to represent the smallest percent of the population, so six of one half dozen of the other I guess.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 03:00 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Was thinking the same thing Lol

At the end of the day the airline is responsible for all passengers.

If someone shows signs of something that might be catching, better safe than sorry.

A persons word doesn't mean diddly squat in these circumstances

They would be butchered if the let someone on with obvious signs of measles, saying they don't have it, but do for eg

Feel sympathy for them though.
Then they need better guidelines about which rashes are worrisome and which aren't. It's not that hard. Are they going to kick people off with common psoriasis?
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Old 3rd March 2019, 03:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Depending on what the condition was, it may not be simple to diagnose. Remember the crew are not medical experts. If they took a look at it and said "yes it is x" but it turned out they had something else then should they be held accountable?

The article said they could not retrieve their checked baggage. This is so wrong. If a passenger is not on board the plane neither should their baggage. No exceptions. Top terrorist tip. Board a plane with a bomb in your checked baggage. Then get kicked off the plane. Any excuse will do. They leave your checked baggage on board which explodes mid flight.
This is nonsense. I don't expect people in the forum to know this but good management and written SOP how to manage it and it isn't that hard.

People with measles are contagious before they have symptoms. People with pertussis look like they have a mild cold for the first week. Why are people so afraid of a skin condition just because it is visible?

They don't need to diagnose it. Mom names the condition. They look it up and see that images match the mother's story. How hard is that?
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Old 3rd March 2019, 03:12 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
But with a fake note you now have proof the person was asked, and lied should there be any issues in the future, and if the note was real you have proof she can fly without harming others.

So by asking for the note they are covering their own ass, and more likely confirming it is safe to let this person fly.

By not asking for the note you ate giving yourself the warm fuzzies by being so super nice to this poor lady.

I know which action benefits more people in more real ways, do you?
This is a twisted rationale.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 03:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
What if in your fictional scenario she really did have a disease that could spread to others in the plane, but was so desperate to see her mother she didn't see a doctor and just went anyway.

If I'm going to tell someone to "suck it" id rather tell one person to do so than a plane full, and id rather the consequences be emotional than physical.

Then again my option doesn't make me feel like a saint because I'm willing to take the side of whoever seems to represent the smallest percent of the population, so six of one half dozen of the other I guess.
I answered this above in #15.

You can look and see if the rash matches the mother's statement.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 03:26 PM   #18
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Sounds like a form of eczema. I can't believe how stupid and ignorant people are if they cannot recognise this common complaint in babies and children.

This mother and child should be compensated for the distress caused to them by the moronic airline staff.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 03:50 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Sounds like a form of eczema. I can't believe how stupid and ignorant people are if they cannot recognise this common complaint in babies and children.

This mother and child should be compensated for the distress caused to them by the moronic airline staff.
Sounds like an inherited defective protein in the skin with multiple versions.

Psoriasis is an autoimmune disease.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 04:18 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This is nonsense. I don't expect people in the forum to know this but good management and written SOP how to manage it and it isn't that hard.

People with measles are contagious before they have symptoms. People with pertussis look like they have a mild cold for the first week. Why are people so afraid of a skin condition just because it is visible?

They don't need to diagnose it. Mom names the condition. They look it up and see that images match the mother's story. How hard is that?
Agreed, and in fact that seems to be just what the flight attendant did, to no avail.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 04:28 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Agreed, and in fact that seems to be just what the flight attendant did, to no avail.
And I'm saying their SOP, a simple "must have a Dr note", was a piss-poor procedure. Totally inadequate.

Like I said, I blame management, not the stewards.

And did this woman know she needed the note? She didn't have anything contagious.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 06:37 PM   #22
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If this reflected any part of company policy, why wasn't it addressed before she boarded?
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Old 3rd March 2019, 09:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
It sucks to be this woman, but I wouldn't take her word for it. Produce evidence. Anybody can say anything, "Believe me, this is my emotional therapy chihuahua." People lie. Or they could've Googled it. Maybe there decision was a bit rash.
Looks like everyone else missed it... they didn't see what you did there!
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Old 3rd March 2019, 09:21 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
The article said they could not retrieve their checked baggage. This is so wrong. If a passenger is not on board the plane neither should their baggage. No exceptions. Top terrorist tip. Board a plane with a bomb in your checked baggage. Then get kicked off the plane. Any excuse will do. They leave your checked baggage on board which explodes mid flight.
This should cause a huge red flag to go up. If what happened here with the baggage is current policy for any airline, they need to change it immediately.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 09:34 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Looks like everyone else missed it... they didn't see what you did there!
They got, but were embarrassed for my there/their error.
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Old 4th March 2019, 12:08 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This is nonsense. I don't expect people in the forum to know this but good management and written SOP how to manage it and it isn't that hard.

People with measles are contagious before they have symptoms. People with pertussis look like they have a mild cold for the first week. Why are people so afraid of a skin condition just because it is visible?

They don't need to diagnose it. Mom names the condition. They look it up and see that images match the mother's story. How hard is that?
I half agree with this. Lots of people travel with an infectious disease and are not told they are not allowed to travel. Like a person can get on almost any train, even with an obvious infectious disease without problem. The point being that the mother was very unlucky to be even questioned about the condition.

A person can look at a photo and think that the skin condition looks like what the child has, but is it the same condition? That may be hard to say. Or maybe the photo does not match. Example are these two babies in the links below both have the same condition?

Warning: links contain pictures that may upset certain people (a baby with a severe rash).
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig1_257795539
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig1_263097093

Answer yes, but if you were presented with one baby and looked at the other photo would you agree the baby has the same condition? This is the same condition that the baby in the link in the OP had.
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Old 4th March 2019, 12:29 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I half agree with this. Lots of people travel with an infectious disease and are not told they are not allowed to travel. Like a person can get on almost any train, even with an obvious infectious disease without problem. The point being that the mother was very unlucky to be even questioned about the condition.

A person can look at a photo and think that the skin condition looks like what the child has, but is it the same condition? That may be hard to say. Or maybe the photo does not match. Example are these two babies in the links below both have the same condition?

Warning: links contain pictures that may upset certain people (a baby with a severe rash).
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig1_257795539
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig1_263097093

Answer yes, but if you were presented with one baby and looked at the other photo would you agree the baby has the same condition? This is the same condition that the baby in the link in the OP had.
Oh for pity's sake. What did you look for, worst possible case of ichthyosis?

Your post is trying to create outrage where there should be none.
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Old 4th March 2019, 04:03 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Oh for pity's sake. What did you look for, worst possible case of ichthyosis?

Your post is trying to create outrage where there should be none.
This post is junk.

Edit. To justify the above sentence look at this link. It is a straight search for ichthyosis images. The links were chosen because they were two of the few that showed the entire body. Come to think of it I could have chosen almost any two photos and leave the rest of the post the same.

Warning. More bad images.
https://www.google.com.au/search?new....0.LPE5F73izpk
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Old 4th March 2019, 07:18 AM   #29
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It was all probably started by the SJW sitting next to her. Probably think she was an antivaxxer spreading Measles. Another alarmist SJW.
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Old 4th March 2019, 07:25 AM   #30
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I suppose one thing to ask (I actually don't know) is whether there are any reasonably likely infectious diseases that look like ichthyosis. A woman and a child who are, to all appearances, healthy except for their skin condition, which the woman explains is ichthyosis. Does it look like something else, something more likely?
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Old 4th March 2019, 08:30 AM   #31
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"better safe than sorry" isn't going to cut it for ADA compliance. If their policy is for flight crew to just make judgement calls on the ground with no firm basis, the airline is going to find themselves in some trouble.

I don't really see it as the airlines responsibility to ensure that no one is flying with a contagious condition. They can require that people who know they are contagious with a serious illness not fly, but how are they going to check for compliance? They are not in a position to diagnose or challenge a patient's claim of health.

It is their responsibility to not discriminate against the disabled.
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Old 4th March 2019, 08:42 AM   #32
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There's a broader question to be asked of how easy it is to catch a contagious disease on an airplane and the answer to that seems to be "It's fiendishly complicated" and every study and article I can find seems to say something different.
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Old 4th March 2019, 08:43 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
"better safe than sorry" isn't going to cut it for ADA compliance. If their policy is for flight crew to just make judgement calls on the ground with no firm basis, the airline is going to find themselves in some trouble.

I don't really see it as the airlines responsibility to ensure that no one is flying with a contagious condition. They can require that people who know they are contagious with a serious illness not fly, but how are they going to check for compliance? They are not in a position to diagnose or challenge a patient's claim of health.

It is their responsibility to not discriminate against the disabled.
Well that's a good mentality to have. "Better to spread an infectious disease across the planet then to be briefly out of compliance with the letter of the ADA."
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Old 4th March 2019, 08:50 AM   #34
SuburbanTurkey
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well that's a good mentality to have. "Better to spread an infectious disease across the planet then to be briefly out of compliance with the letter of the ADA."
I fail to see how medically untrained flight crew baselessly ejecting the visibly disabled is a rational way to control the spread of disease.

Flight crew should feel free to inquire about visible symptoms, but should not accuse passengers of lying based on a hunch and eject them from flights.

The ADA is important because the disabled would otherwise suffer numerous indignities and unfair treatment by well-intentioned idiots, like in this example.
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Old 4th March 2019, 09:06 AM   #35
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If the disease was a contagious one, the flight staff would be heroes.

Grey Scale was entirely contained in Westeros, and they didn't have to worry about planes and self filtering ventilation systems.
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Old 4th March 2019, 09:07 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I fail to see how medically untrained flight crew baselessly ejecting the visibly disabled is a rational way to control the spread of disease.

Flight crew should feel free to inquire about visible symptoms, but should not accuse passengers of lying based on a hunch and eject them from flights.

The ADA is important because the disabled would otherwise suffer numerous indignities and unfair treatment by well-intentioned idiots, like in this example.
Because, radical idea here, if someone is on the plane with condition that the "medically untrained flight crew" can't identity and all they have to go on is said passenger's (which never lie and are always factually correct) word, then maybe in some cases erring on the side of "Not flying to potential Walking Smallpox Blanket to another continent and letting them lose" might, just might, be the better overall decision in some cases because in that case we don't accidentally write the opening chapters to The Stand.

"Well we accidentally flew the Andromeda Strain from Beijing to New York and now two hemispheres have their brains leaking out of the tear ducts... but hey nobody's fee-fees got hurt" is not the better outcome in my world.
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Old 4th March 2019, 09:10 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
If the disease was a contagious one, the flight staff would be heroes.

Grey Scale was entirely contained in Westeros, and they didn't have to worry about planes and self filtering ventilation systems.
Yet grey scale was the less deadly form of grey death, and those who contracted the former acquired immunity to the latter. Ironically, allowing the spread of grey scale may have been better for the population than fighting it. They are much more susceptible to a deadly pandemic.
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Old 4th March 2019, 09:13 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Because, radical idea here, if someone is on the plane with condition that the "medically untrained flight crew" can't identity and all they have to go on is said passenger's (which never lie and are always factually correct) word, then maybe in some cases erring on the side of "Not flying to potential Walking Smallpox Blanket to another continent and letting them lose" might, just might, be the better overall decision in some cases because in that case we don't accidentally write the opening chapters to The Stand.

"Well we accidentally flew the Andromeda Strain from Beijing to New York and now two hemispheres have their brains leaking out of the tear ducts... but hey nobody's fee-fees got hurt" is not the better outcome in my world.
And on the other side we just bar anyone who hasn't had blood work done in the last 12 hours from flying at all. Safety is the most important thing, after all, far better to ground nine hundred million healthy than allow a single sick person to put others at risk!
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Old 4th March 2019, 09:17 AM   #39
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"Don't worry, it's not contagious," is probably not a claim I'd be interested in accepting from a stranger, without even any attempt at corroboration or supporting evidence.

In fact, our society is full of rules about not letting laymen assert medical truths without oversight. You don't take your partner's word that they don't have any STDs. You ask to see test results. We don't let people returning from certain parts of Africa simply declare that they're Ebola-free. We screen them. We don't let commercial food preparers decide for themselves what's clean enough. We make them wear hair nets and so forth.
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Old 4th March 2019, 09:20 AM   #40
SuburbanTurkey
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Because, radical idea here, if someone is on the plane with condition that the "medically untrained flight crew" can't identity and all they have to go on is said passenger's (which never lie and are always factually correct) word, then maybe in some cases erring on the side of "Not flying to potential Walking Smallpox Blanket to another continent and letting them lose" might, just might, be the better overall decision in some cases because in that case we don't accidentally write the opening chapters to The Stand.

"Well we accidentally flew the Andromeda Strain from Beijing to New York and now two hemispheres have their brains leaking out of the tear ducts... but hey nobody's fee-fees got hurt" is not the better outcome in my world.
What you describe is the situation already. International flights are a disease vector. Flight crews with no medical expertise occasionally hassling only those passengers with visible ailments will have such little effect in the spread of the disease that it is hard to consider it a useful endeavor.

How are flight crews to discern between an ordinary cough and tuberculosis? Is it COPD or SARS? Someone with a cold and rubella? Someone with a skin condition or smallpox? They can ask, and they have no idea if what they are being told is a lie or not. If flight crews really want to stop the ill from flying, they will need doctors to screen patients. Flight attendants following intuition will be both ineffective and needlessly cruel to the disabled.
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