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Old 13th March 2019, 08:50 AM   #81
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Zeno's Gish Gallop.
Gosh gallop is about defending a position. I never started this thread with a position. And I still don't have one on the issue.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:50 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I won't force it into other people's threads, but this thread was my own question I brought up.
And this is different from the last time you pinky swore not to do it how exactly?

Either you hijack other threads or you hijack your own threads (which is exactly what starting a thread under the pretense of wanting to talk about the topic when all you want to do is have someone spoon feed you the entire human condition and history of the universe YET FRICKIN' AGAIN is).

Every discussion can't be about everything Bob. Humans understand that.

When you start a topic about something people assume you're arguing in good faith and certain things, like the base nature of reality and how those pesky humans work, is already established.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:50 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Then in the future I will preface threads I create. I will note they intend to be a series of deeper questions
Then they also need to be posted in Philosophy, not Social Issues.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:57 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I fail massively all the time. I know that.
And yet you refuse to adjust.

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I won't force it into other people's threads, but this thread was my own question I brought up.
Called it.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:58 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
And yet you refuse to adjust.



Called it.
Called it? Where is it given that my position on what should happens means I should bring it up in other people's threads?
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:59 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
When you start a topic about something people assume you're arguing in good faith and certain things, like the base nature of reality and how those pesky humans work, is already established.
What makes it into the social contract seems to be a question specifically about how humans work. That is the concept being examined.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:01 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Called it? Where is it given that my position on what should happens means I should bring it up in other people's threads?
Well you're the one who said every thread should be about the quantum aspect of the given topic. I predicted you wouldn't do that and you said you wouldn't.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:06 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Gosh gallop is about defending a position.
You are wrong. The Gish Gallop is about avoiding defense of a position, or even discussion of a position.

Quote:
I never started this thread with a position. And I still don't have one on the issue.
This doesn't explain your refusal to discuss positions.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:12 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I won't force it into other people's threads, but this thread was my own question I brought up.
Why start on the path if you're goal is to be in the weeds? Why not start in the weeds.

It's dishonest to start a conversation pretending it's about the clock when you know you only want to talk about the gears.

Nobody is falling for your routine or impressed by it Bob. Everyone knows you don't start discussions honestly and you aren't going to trick anyone by pretending to start the topic right next to the rabbit hole and then pretend like you just accidentally fell down it.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:14 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What makes it into the social contract seems to be a question specifically about how humans work. That is the concept being examined.
Normal functioning humans can discuss such things without talking about your weeds Bob.

There's literally dozens of discussion about "the social contract" in some way in the political and social forums and all of them don't have one person demanding people spoon feed them the entire human mental processing.

Grow up.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:16 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well you're the one who said every thread should be about the quantum aspect of the given topic. I predicted you wouldn't do that and you said you wouldn't.
Nothing about what I think a thread should be means that I should apply that in other people's threads.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:16 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
a question specifically about how humans work.
Then this thread belongs in Philosophy, wouldn't you agree?
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:27 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Normal functioning humans can discuss such things without talking about your weeds Bob.

There's literally dozens of discussion about "the social contract" in some way in the political and social forums and all of them don't have one person demanding people spoon feed them the entire human mental processing.

Grow up.
Which is why I started a new one. This one is different.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:31 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Then this thread belongs in Philosophy, wouldn't you agree?
It is more sociology, I think.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:32 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Which is why I started a new one. This one is different.
Then you should have said so instead of pretending you weren't down the same rabbit hole. But no you just have to dishonestly pretend you want to talk about a topic when with you it's never the topic.

Start a thread called "I don't understand how humans work somebody please spoon feed it to me" up in the Philosophy forum and stay there.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:34 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is more sociology, I think.
Until you want it to be philosophy. Or quantum mechanics. Or pedantics. Or nonsense.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:35 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Then you should have said so instead of pretending you weren't down the same rabbit hole. But no you just have to dishonestly pretend you want to talk about a topic when with you it's never the topic.

Start a thread called "I don't understand how humans work somebody please spoon feed it to me" up in the Philosophy forum and stay there.
I thought that was the subject of my first post. How humans have decided what is in the social contract and how we distribute tasks is what I asked about.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:38 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Until you want it to be philosophy. Or quantum mechanics. Or pedantics. Or nonsense.
Isn't all sociology eventually physics?
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:46 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I thought that was the subject of my first post. How humans have decided what is in the social contract and how we distribute tasks is what I asked about.
And in a normal, healthy, good-faith conversation, the answer would go something like this:
Humans typically decide what's in the social contract in gradual increments over time. Some related concepts you might be interested in exploring are Chesterton's Fence and the Overton Window. Occasionally, a group of humans will decide that the contract needs a more radical, intentful change, and take revolutionary steps to to make it so. Related concepts include the Magna Carta, the US Constitution, and the Communist Manifesto.

In general, we distribute tasks according to basic market principles, modified by a given local community's shared values around protecting the commons and doing civic duty.
That whole field of inquiry can be explored at length and in depth, without re-scoping to include neurochemistry and quantum effects. In fact, that's the way it's usually done. I think what bemuses everyone here is how you manage to start from a position of agnosticism, and immediately arrive at intractable systemic ignorance, every single time.

There's no point in trying to explain to you how the social contract works. Your body of work makes it clear that you don't - or won't - even understand how explaining things works. Your problems are too fundamental to allow for any kind of progress on any front other than people realizing what a tar-baby each of your posts is.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:49 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Nothing about what I think a thread should be means that I should apply that in other people's threads.
And yet this fractal shuffle nonsense is what you engage in in every thread.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:50 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
A good discussion should get progressively more in the weeds.
Hey guys, I found the flaw in Bob's programming.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:50 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Then this thread belongs in Philosophy, wouldn't you agree?
You misunderstand Bob. Yesterday it was about philosophy and sociology. Now it's about biology and neurology. Tomorrow it'll be about atoms and chemistry, and by Friday we'll be talking about quantum fluctuations and causality.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:51 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Isn't all sociology eventually physics?
Everything is eventually physics, and yet humans somehow manage to have conversations that don't involve the quantum realm because they can understand that some things are taken implicitly for any productive discussion to occur.

But of course, productive is not how you want the discussion to be.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:52 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
A good discussion should get progressively more in the weeds.
Is this a position you have, that you are willing to defend with arguments?
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:53 AM   #105
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It's like Bob wants to be one of those people that hijacks every discussion with solipsism but can't get there on his own so he wants other people to hold his hand and lead him to the hijack he wants to get to.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:54 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's like Bob wants to be one of those people that hijacks every discussion with solipsism but can't get there on his own so he wants other people to hold his hand and lead him to the hijack he wants to get to.
I think I understand what you mean, but do you think you could explain it to me in terms of string theory?
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Old 13th March 2019, 10:21 AM   #107
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I ask myself, why do members of this forum still play with Bob? At least 15 people, all of whom know Bob's posting history, have contributed to this thread. A thread started by Bob. It makes me wonder...
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Old 13th March 2019, 10:31 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's like Bob wants to be one of those people that hijacks every discussion with solipsism but can't get there on his own so he wants other people to hold his hand and lead him to the hijack he wants to get to.
Exactly. I don't agree with the word choice, but I find the interrogation of a subject to the point of solipsism rewarding.
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Old 13th March 2019, 10:40 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post


In general, we distribute tasks according to basic market principles, modified by a given local community's shared values around protecting the commons and doing civic duty.

Then the next question is how do people arrive at their shared values?
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Old 13th March 2019, 10:41 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I think I understand what you mean, but do you think you could explain it to me in terms of string theory?
No.
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Old 13th March 2019, 11:15 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Then the next question is how do people arrive at their shared values?
Discussion and negotiation in the immediate term. Incrementally and gradually, over time. See also: Chesterton's Fence and the Overton Window.

In a nutshell, the Social Contract is simply the accreted mass of shared values that you've inherited upon entrance to your community, and which you're expected a priori to internalize and abide by.

It's not actually about any contractual obligation to serve on juries or notify next of kin. "Social contract" is a philosophy term for the idea of being subject to rules and customs by virtue of being in a community, rather than by virtue of explicit agreement. Basically, it's just the idea that dissenting from your community's rules doesn't exempt you from those rules, even if you didn't choose to join the community.
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Old 13th March 2019, 11:24 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Discussion and negotiation in the immediate term. Incrementally and gradually, over time. See also: Chesterton's Fence and the Overton Window.

In a nutshell, the Social Contract is simply the accreted mass of shared values that you've inherited upon entrance to your community, and which you're expected a priori to internalize and abide by.

It's not actually about any contractual obligation to serve on juries or notify next of kin. "Social contract" is a philosophy term for the idea of being subject to rules and customs by virtue of being in a community, rather than by virtue of explicit agreement. Basically, it's just the idea that dissenting from your community's rules doesn't exempt you from those rules, even if you didn't choose to join the community.
all right.
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Old 13th March 2019, 11:29 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
all right.
Indeed yes.
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:00 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
No.
Why not? Everything is caused by physics, is it not?
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:02 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
I ask myself, why do members of this forum still play with Bob? At least 15 people, all of whom know Bob's posting history, have contributed to this thread. A thread started by Bob. It makes me wonder...
Makes you wonder what exactly? Drop the coy act.

If you don't like it, ignore us. That's what we're told to do with Bob, so that's the same answer you get. Either things can just magically be ignored or they can't.
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:03 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Why not? Everything is caused by physics, is it not?
"do you think you could" is partially a question of capability. I lack that capability. My desire to explain is limited by lack of knowledge, therefore I do not think I could.
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:27 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I think I understand what you mean, but do you think you could explain it to me in terms of string theory?
It's all in the vibrations, man! When Bob starts to think the strings in his brain start to vibrate. The vibrations cause quantum fluctuations which, in turn, make Bob think about quantum fluctuations to the exclusion of all else. Sometimes this can take days. Other times, like this thread, it happens in mere minutes.

Is this answer satisfactory?
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Old 13th March 2019, 04:52 PM   #118
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No one has to engage with a poster if you feel like they are wasting your time or each answer will just lead to more silly questions.
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