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Old 13th June 2022, 09:22 PM   #1881
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66 rounds should give pause. Either the shooter was going all Boondock Saints with multiple gats strapped on, or the hommes was stopping to reload. Like a lot. Meaning he either pre-planned a mass shooting, or was in the habit of carrying a half dozen extra loaded clips?
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Old 13th June 2022, 09:55 PM   #1882
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Having found an alleged mass shooting that is not perpetrated by a white supremacist makes you so ecstatic that you have to tell the world: This time not-a-white-supremacist(NAWS)!
That is so cute!

Well you see, Dann, like you(presumably, forgive me if I'm wrong), I once believed that most mass shooters in the United States were white. That is until I read this New York Times article stating that 3/4 of mass shootings were committed by blacks. It's a statistic I had read on the web several times over the years. I just assumed it was a figure made up by some nutty racist and never took it seriously until I read the actual article.

After seeing the myth that whites make up the majority of mass shooters in this country repeated multiple times here at the ISF, I decided I would do my part and help the skeptical community by pointing out the fact that it is not white people who commit the majority of mass shootings. My focus this year is on mass shootings with 10 or more victims because there are way too many single-digit victim shootings to keep track of – 267 so far this year.

I throw in "not-a-white-supremacist" as a counter narrative to the current administration and left-wing media's narrative that white supremacists are the biggest threat to America since forever ever and minorities need to be scared all the time and keep voting for Democrats so they can be saved from said white supremacists. I'm doing my small part to prove that the current regime's narrative is complete bull ****. See below, no need to thank me.

Of the 19 mass shootings with 10 or more victims, the trigger pullers break down thusly:

1 white supremacist.

1 black nationalist.

1 Latino.

30 black men.

These numbers come from media and police photos, videos and descriptions of the suspects. There are around 10 undescribed suspects as of now, and based on the types of shooting, where they were and the other suspects the shooters were with, not a single one of these will be a white supremacist.

I changed my mind, you can thank me for my service.
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Last edited by Bogative; 13th June 2022 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 13th June 2022, 10:01 PM   #1883
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
66 rounds should give pause. Either the shooter was going all Boondock Saints with multiple gats strapped on, or the hommes was stopping to reload. Like a lot. Meaning he either pre-planned a mass shooting, or was in the habit of carrying a half dozen extra loaded clips?

It's possible that there are other shooters, but the articles I read only mention the one man and nothing about other suspects. I'll keep a lookout for more updates and post them here.
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Old 14th June 2022, 10:26 AM   #1884
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I need to make a correction.

There have only been 18 mass shootings with 10 or more victims this year, not 19.

The not-a-mass-shooting mass shooting in Charleston, South Carolina only had 9 gunshot victims and not the 10 originally reported.

Early reports said a cop was shot but it turns out it was just glass shrapnel that hit him when some ****tard opened fire on his cruiser as he was responding to the shooting.

Audio and video from the shooting. Hard to say but maybe around 50 gunshots?

Deljavon Lamat Simmons(not a white supremacist) Is the only person charged so far.
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Old 14th June 2022, 12:29 PM   #1885
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Why Must we discuss various definitions of the term "mass shooting"? People, innocent people, are being shot. Surely that is what matters, not what various people want to name it.

Hans
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Old 14th June 2022, 01:55 PM   #1886
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Because we're supposed to talk about skin colour and how black people are criminals because of their skin colour but if no one wants to talk about that we must be forced to bicker about semantics until someone bites again and tries to confront the openly racist "points"....

Last edited by EaglePuncher; 14th June 2022 at 02:25 PM. Reason: rephrased
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Old 14th June 2022, 02:18 PM   #1887
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Why Must we discuss various definitions of the term "mass shooting"? People, innocent people, are being shot. Surely that is what matters, not what various people want to name it.

Hans
Because it allows our resident "I'm not one of those racists, but..." practitioners to divert attention from certain realities they find uncomfortable.
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Old 16th June 2022, 09:13 AM   #1888
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Apologies if I missed this upthread, but here is a pretty amusing Poe at the NRA convention.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


La Pierre looks a little dubious, but the audience claps!
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Old 16th June 2022, 09:18 AM   #1889
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Because it allows our resident "I'm not one of those racists, but..." practitioners to divert attention from certain realities they find uncomfortable.

There are certainly some narratives being presented that divert attention from reality.
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Old 17th June 2022, 07:47 AM   #1890
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
It's possible that there are other shooters, but the articles I read only mention the one man and nothing about other suspects. I'll keep a lookout for more updates and post them here.

Police are now saying multiple shooters. Two more arrests have been made but neither one of the NAWSs have been charged with pulling the trigger as of now. Both of them are on video exiting the same vehicle as the NAWS who has been charged with homicide. One of these rocket surgeons was live streaming himself on Facebook on the way to the shooting while holding a rifle, he is a convicted felon.

https://www.soundhealthandlastingwea...mass-shooting/
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Old 18th June 2022, 08:48 AM   #1891
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Even when a good guy with a gun shows up...

[quote)

FROM: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...way/ar-AAYB6Vr

He Stopped A Gunman During A Mass Shooting -- The Cops Killed Him Anyway
Isaac Serna-Diez (2022-06-17)

On June 21, 2021, a man named Ronald Troyke opened fire and killed a police officer in Arvada, Colorado, causing passersby to flee into the safety of restaurants, behind dumpsters, and flood the Jefferson County emergency call center.

One man decided that instead of waiting for the police response time that would be followed by a slow, careful search, he would take matters into his own hands with the concealed handgun held in the waistband of his pants.

After saving the people of Arvada, Colorado from a mass shooting, John Hurley was murdered by the police...




(SNIP)

[/quote]
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Old 18th June 2022, 08:56 AM   #1892
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Police departments could probably be more efficient if, every time they got a call, they simply barricade themselves in the police department and shoot anyone they see.
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Old 19th June 2022, 06:03 AM   #1893
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes, and I have said the very same thing multiple times. Why do you pretend otherwise?



My POINT, should you read post #1566 again, is that the focus of the discussion tends to be on the kind of crime that many feel "could happen to them". the problem is much wider, even if the shooters and victims tend to be darker skinned than posters here.

The funny thing is that like yours truly, many here support Black Lives Matter. Except that a lot of you cats don't seem interested in the multitudes of Black Lives being snuffed out daily. Seems not to "Matter" quite as much to some of y'all.

Look at the recent Philly Shooting cited by Bogative. People carousing on South Street, a popular socializing strip, which many here have heard of:

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Heavy police presence nightly. Fun place to hang out.

Then a bunch of guys pull up and open fire on the crowd. This, to me, is horrific. But not a single poster is moved to the slightest comment. Why do you suppose that posters here are indifferent to such a horrific crime? Recall the recent black man who opened fire on a Brooklyn subway. Again, no one has much to say, just a little skirting around the edges.

Gun violence is a broad menace. When posters are only interested in the "white shooting crimes", it makes some of us feel a little sick. Black Lives do indeed Matter. Walk it like you talk it.



Yet again, you are making **** up. I have said many times, including on this very thread, that semis need to be outright banned. Civilians have no use for a spraying weapon, and can take a bit of extra time to manually rechamber rounds when plinking or hunting. To repeat for you again so you will stop lying about my position, I think the States need:

1. Banning of all semis
2. Licensing, revocable upon violent behavior
3. Registration of anything that goes bang
4. No open or concealed carry
4. Dramatically increased penalties for the use of a gun in any crime (clear out the prisons of guys caught with dime bags to make room)

You have any more lies you'd like to ascribe to me before moving on?
Hi Thermal, I realize this post was from a long way back.

I just want to apologize for insinuating you were in league with people like Bogative who, I am pretty sure, has no other point to make other than to push a racist agenda.

For what it is worth, I do not think you are racist.
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Old 19th June 2022, 06:16 AM   #1894
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Originally Posted by AmyStrange View Post
Even when a good guy with a gun shows up...

Quote:

FROM: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...way/ar-AAYB6Vr

He Stopped A Gunman During A Mass Shooting -- The Cops Killed Him Anyway
Isaac Serna-Diez (2022-06-17)

On June 21, 2021, a man named Ronald Troyke opened fire and killed a police officer in Arvada, Colorado, causing passersby to flee into the safety of restaurants, behind dumpsters, and flood the Jefferson County emergency call center.

One man decided that instead of waiting for the police response time that would be followed by a slow, careful search, he would take matters into his own hands with the concealed handgun held in the waistband of his pants.

After saving the people of Arvada, Colorado from a mass shooting, John Hurley was murdered by the police...

http://www.amystrange.org/FVUi--zXsAYd2Gw-a.jpg


(SNIP)
Never try to be a hero.
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Old 19th June 2022, 07:31 AM   #1895
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Never try to be a hero.
If you act when the police don't, expect them to kill you and then lie about it.
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Old 19th June 2022, 09:44 AM   #1896
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I just want to apologize for insinuating you were in league with people like Bogative who, I am pretty sure, has no other point to make other than to push a racist agenda.

My point is to tell the truth about mass shootings, my agenda is to counter bull **** narratives like this:

Quote:
The top domestic violence extremist threat we face comes from racially or ethnically motivated violent extremists, specifically those who advocate for the superiority of the white race
https://thehill.com/changing-america...-supremacy-is/
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Old 19th June 2022, 12:00 PM   #1897
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
My point is to tell the truth about mass shootings, my agenda is to counter bull **** narratives like this:



https://thehill.com/changing-america...-supremacy-is/
Then what do you think is "top domestic violence extremist threat" that the US faces?

It seems like most of the shootings don't have much to do with extremism.
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Old 19th June 2022, 12:12 PM   #1898
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The classrooms the Uvalde shooter barricaded himself in may not have been locked, but even if they were, police had a tool that would have opened them: report


Quote:
A law enforcement source said Uvalde police didn't try to open the door to the room in which the shooter was barricaded.

The source told the San Antonio Express-News that if the door was locked, police had a tool to pry it open.

Uvalde police have received ongoing scrutiny for their response to the May 24 shooting that resulted in 21 deaths.

Uvalde police didn't check to see if the door to the two connected classrooms the Robb Elementary shooter barricaded himself in with children was unlocked, a source close to the investigation told the San Antonio Express-News.

The Texas Department of Public Safety previously said that the doors locked from the inside. But after viewing surveillance footage, investigators believed the doors may have not been able to be locked from the inside due to a malfunction, the source the Express-News.

If the doors were in fact locked, police had access to a halligan bar, a forcible entry tool shaped like a crowbar that could have opened the door, the source said.
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Old 19th June 2022, 03:30 PM   #1899
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Then what do you think is "top domestic violence extremist threat" that the US faces?

It seems like most of the shootings don't have much to do with extremism.

I'm saying all domestic violent extremism combined poses very little threat to the US, much less one specific type. In 2016 according to the ADL, 76 people (the highest number between 2010 and 2020) were killed by domestic violent extremists. There are around 25,000 homicides in the US every year and some want us to believe that the 76 are much worse, much scarier and more prevalent than the other 24,924 or so. Left-wing politicians and media spend an inordinate amount of time on one and not so much on the rest.

I believe it's because most domestic violent extremism is considered "right-wing" and the left over inflates and hypes those numbers to smear their political opposition and paint them with a broad brush.
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Old 19th June 2022, 03:31 PM   #1900
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Then what do you think is "top domestic violence extremist threat" that the US faces?

It seems like most of the shootings don't have much to do with extremism.
Which adjective would you like bogative to focus on?
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Old 19th June 2022, 04:24 PM   #1901
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I'm saying all domestic violent extremism combined poses very little threat to the US, much less one specific type.
OK, but which specific type is the most dangerous?
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Old 19th June 2022, 08:28 PM   #1902
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
OK, but which specific type is the most dangerous?

It's hard to say with certainty because most other shootings/mass shootings are not tracked with the same diligence as extremist shootings. From the time I've spent reading about mass shootings I'm going to guess shootings by those who illegally obtain firearms, those who have been previously convicted of gun crimes or those that are gang-related/gang-violence.
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Old 19th June 2022, 08:29 PM   #1903
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In what sense are those driven by extremism?
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Old 20th June 2022, 01:39 PM   #1904
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"Uvalde has hired a private law firm in an effort to suppress body camera footage and other records surrounding the mass shooting, Motherboard reported last week. In a letter, the city’s private lawyer argued it should be exempted from releasing records in part because they include “highly embarrassing information” and may cause “emotional/mental distress.”"

https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy7z...shooter-report
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Old 20th June 2022, 02:19 PM   #1905
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I am more than a bit concerned about the rhetoric I've heard so far about planned disturbances during Pride celebrations this coming weekend. There's a big one locally that I'll have relatives going to (I might even go with them) and the city police are known nationally for several incidents in the past few years.
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Old 20th June 2022, 02:50 PM   #1906
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
In what sense are those driven by extremism?
Why the focus on extremism? The number of deaths by extremists every year is minuscule compared to all other types of homicide.
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Old 20th June 2022, 02:59 PM   #1907
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I'm saying all domestic violent extremism combined poses very little threat to the US, much less one specific type. In 2016 according to the ADL, 76 people (the highest number between 2010 and 2020) were killed by domestic violent extremists. There are around 25,000 homicides in the US every year and some want us to believe that the 76 are much worse, much scarier and more prevalent than the other 24,924 or so. Left-wing politicians and media spend an inordinate amount of time on one and not so much on the rest.

I believe it's because most domestic violent extremism is considered "right-wing" and the left over inflates and hypes those numbers to smear their political opposition and paint them with a broad brush.
I'd theorize that its because their audience is much more concerned with random acts of violence that could potentially kill them or their children rather than crime that almost exclusively occurs in the bad part of major cities. One can effect them the other really can't.

Where I live the paper started posting a "murder map". Nearly every murder was confined in 3 small sections of town and they are nearly always in a cheap motel, rundown apartment complex, or the poor guy working nights at a gas station. And the other handful of dots are usually domestic.

ETA: I also don't know why you are trying to say the media only covers "extremists". Uvalde was just an angry guy that decided to kill a bunch of kids. Its not political extremism, yet the news coverage was huge.

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Old 20th June 2022, 08:10 PM   #1908
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It's become obvious that the reason why the Uvalde police failed so miserably is not because they have not enough cops, but too many cops: with multiple law enforcement agencies in a tiny town, no one was even clear on who would be in charge.
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Old 21st June 2022, 01:24 AM   #1909
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It's become obvious that the reason why the Uvalde police failed so miserably is not because they have not enough cops, but too many cops: with multiple law enforcement agencies in a tiny town, no one was even clear on who would be in charge.
Yes, when it doesn't even seem clear how many organisations with police powers there are in the US, except that it was somewhere around eighteen thousand in 2008, with 12000 being police forces of some description and 6000 having ten or fewer full time officers.
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Old 21st June 2022, 02:05 AM   #1910
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Well you see, Dann, like you(presumably, forgive me if I'm wrong), I once believed that most mass shooters in the United States were white. That is until I read this New York Times article stating that 3/4 of mass shootings were committed by blacks. It's a statistic I had read on the web several times over the years. I just assumed it was a figure made up by some nutty racist and never took it seriously until I read the actual article.

After seeing the myth that whites make up the majority of mass shooters in this country repeated multiple times here at the ISF, I decided I would do my part and help the skeptical community by pointing out the fact that it is not white people who commit the majority of mass shootings. My focus this year is on mass shootings with 10 or more victims because there are way too many single-digit victim shootings to keep track of – 267 so far this year.

I throw in "not-a-white-supremacist" as a counter narrative to the current administration and left-wing media's narrative that white supremacists are the biggest threat to America since forever ever and minorities need to be scared all the time and keep voting for Democrats so they can be saved from said white supremacists. I'm doing my small part to prove that the current regime's narrative is complete bull ****. See below, no need to thank me.

Of the 19 mass shootings with 10 or more victims, the trigger pullers break down thusly:

1 white supremacist.

1 black nationalist.

1 Latino.

30 black men.

These numbers come from media and police photos, videos and descriptions of the suspects. There are around 10 undescribed suspects as of now, and based on the types of shooting, where they were and the other suspects the shooters were with, not a single one of these will be a white supremacist.

I changed my mind, you can thank me for my service.
The message I take home from this is that anyone in possesion of a Y chromosome should be banned from carrying a firearm (except under direct supervision of a responsible person such as a mother or sister).
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:17 AM   #1911
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During a press conference today the Texas DPS stated that video evidence shows Uvalde and school police never tried the door handles on the classrooms occupied by the gunman to see if they were locked - which they definitely weren't, because evidently the doors can't be locked from the inside.

Link
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:20 AM   #1912
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The "Thin Blue Line" is looking pretty ******* thin right now. Like it's only got one dimension at this point.
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:49 AM   #1913
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
During a press conference today the Texas DPS stated that video evidence shows Uvalde and school police never tried the door handles on the classrooms occupied by the gunman to see if they were locked - which they definitely weren't, because evidently the doors can't be locked from the inside.

Link
Forbidden!
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Old 21st June 2022, 11:09 AM   #1914
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BBC article on the police response at Uvalde that just gets worse the more information comes out:

Uvalde shooting: Gunman could have been stopped within three minutes - safety official
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Old 21st June 2022, 11:16 AM   #1915
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
BBC article on the police response at Uvalde that just gets worse the more information comes out:

Uvalde shooting: Gunman could have been stopped within three minutes - safety official
Yeah, we are about five revelations away from finding out there was no shooter and the whole thing was a wrong-address SWAT raid that went way off the rails…
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Old 21st June 2022, 01:55 PM   #1916
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Forbidden!
Likewise but

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/21/u...nse/index.html
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Old 21st June 2022, 02:05 PM   #1917
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I've taken the liberty of copying a few of the recent posts on the Uvalde shooting to the following thread.

The Uvalde Shooting and responses to it

as I think the revelations around the police response and the other responses deserve a dedicated thread
Posted By:jimbob
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Old 21st June 2022, 06:46 PM   #1918
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
It's hard to say with certainty because most other shootings/mass shootings are not tracked with the same diligence as extremist shootings. From the time I've spent reading about mass shootings I'm going to guess shootings by those who illegally obtain firearms, those who have been previously convicted of gun crimes or those that are gang-related/gang-violence.

This reminds me of an episode (No. 176) of the 'Squaring the Strange' podcast I listened to recently. They also cover mass shootings and the take-away was that the idea that 'all mass shooters are one mass shooter' is wrong, there are at least four broad categories, one of which is the 'iconic' lone shooter with multiple writers, the least well known being crime related mass shootings.


The first category also tends to get the most coverage and it's the one in which the majority of shooters tend to be Whites. It's also the smallest category.


The last category (Criminal related mass shootings.) is the largest category and it's the one in which African-Americans make up the majority of the shooters. It's also the category that get's the least coverage in the media.


This feeds into the Right Wing idea of 'The Narrative' in which the race/name of White shooters is shouted from the rooftops while the racial identity of African-American shooters is suppressed to 'prevent negative racial stereotyping'.


Actually what's going on is that stories involving 'White People' tend to get more traction in the media whether it's mass shootings, child kidnappings, etc, etc...


For those who want to listen to the episode, I've linked to the summary page for Squaring the Strange episode 176 below.


https://squaringthestrange.libsyn.co...media-literacy
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Old 22nd June 2022, 04:32 PM   #1919
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Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
Actually what's going on is that stories involving 'White People' tend to get more traction in the media whether it's mass shootings, child kidnappings, etc, etc...

I guess the question is, are the media ignoring the most common types of mass shootings because they don't care about the mostly black victims or are they trying to suppress the truth that the most common type of mass shooting is perpetrated by blacks?
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Old 22nd June 2022, 04:41 PM   #1920
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I guess the question is, are the media ignoring the most common types of mass shootings because they don't care about the mostly black victims or are they trying to suppress the truth that the most common type of mass shooting is perpetrated by blacks?

I think it is because nobody really cares about most instances of blacks shooting each other up. At least that seems to be part of the message I've taken away from this thread.

How else do you explain the combination of statistics and the associated comfortable apathy?
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