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Old 17th June 2022, 10:25 AM   #841
Chanakya

 
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I'm going to say something nice about Amber Heard

At this time there's nothing nice, absolutely nothing at all, that can be said about Amber Heard. The one thing she's still going for her is that, although older than she used to be, but she's still hot; but her unconventional potty training makes her, at least in my view, exactly the opposite of attractive. So that you couldn't possibly say anything good about her now, not if you were paid to do it.

Except: You can, actually. Even if somewhat tangentially.

Came across this fairly long (1 hour +) interview of Dawkins by Amber. Apparently she's an atheist herself. I've only watched a few minutes of it so far, but I've bookmarked it, and intend to watch some more of it, maybe all of it if it's good, later when I'm free. In the very short time I've watched it she hasn't embarrassed herself, and conducts herself well enough; and it's a Dawkins interview after all, so naturally you enjoy listening in; except, maybe, this one, so far at least (I'm at that part where he's reading his hate-mail), is kind of ...lightweight? Somewhat surprisingly for a Dawkins talk? But I'm only at the start, I guess it will pick up further in.

Here's the link, if any of you'd like to check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h39rMawlcms

This has nothing to with the trial, of course, and as such has no relevance for this thread. Nevertheless, given that people, including me, have been piling on on to Amber in this thread, and rightly so; and given that those few who've been trying to defend her in this thread haven't done too good of a job of it, and for no fault of theirs because there's no way in hell she can justifiably be defended; so that, having found something about her that I like and approve of, I thought I'd watch it, as well as share it here, with absolutely no further subtext implied. (What I specifically liked about her in all of this, is that in the midst of all of this controversy, she had the courage [or it could be the naivety] to openly talk about her atheism, and in company of the arch-atheist. Either way that speaks well of her.)



Incidentally, right at top of the comments section you have, not unexpectedly, and kind of amusingly, people saying things like: "I would listen to Mr.Dawkins even if he was talking to a tree," and "Regardless of the luggage of the hostess, it's always a delight to hear professor Dawkins speak."
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Old 18th June 2022, 06:36 AM   #842
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Does anyone else here find it amazing that someone found to have committed malicious defamation by a court of law is free to continue with that defamation (on national teevee, no less)?
And putting forward the idea that defamation suits are about "silencing" people from "speaking their mind."

While simultaneously saying she didn't want the trial exposed to the public...

These are the kinds of "double bind traps" that leave me doubting her veracity.

Disclaimer: I am in no way saying Depp is a swell guy.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 18th June 2022 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 19th June 2022, 11:56 AM   #843
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
At this time there's nothing nice, absolutely nothing at all, that can be said about Amber Heard. The one thing she's still going for her is that, although older than she used to be, but she's still hot; but her unconventional potty training makes her, at least in my view, exactly the opposite of attractive. So that you couldn't possibly say anything good about her now, not if you were paid to do it.

Except: You can, actually. Even if somewhat tangentially.

Came across this fairly long (1 hour +) interview of Dawkins by Amber. Apparently she's an atheist herself. I've only watched a few minutes of it so far, but I've bookmarked it, and intend to watch some more of it, maybe all of it if it's good, later when I'm free. In the very short time I've watched it she hasn't embarrassed herself, and conducts herself well enough; and it's a Dawkins interview after all, so naturally you enjoy listening in; except, maybe, this one, so far at least (I'm at that part where he's reading his hate-mail), is kind of ...lightweight? Somewhat surprisingly for a Dawkins talk? But I'm only at the start, I guess it will pick up further in.

Here's the link, if any of you'd like to check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h39rMawlcms

This has nothing to with the trial, of course, and as such has no relevance for this thread. Nevertheless, given that people, including me, have been piling on on to Amber in this thread, and rightly so; and given that those few who've been trying to defend her in this thread haven't done too good of a job of it, and for no fault of theirs because there's no way in hell she can justifiably be defended; so that, having found something about her that I like and approve of, I thought I'd watch it, as well as share it here, with absolutely no further subtext implied. (What I specifically liked about her in all of this, is that in the midst of all of this controversy, she had the courage [or it could be the naivety] to openly talk about her atheism, and in company of the arch-atheist. Either way that speaks well of her.)



Incidentally, right at top of the comments section you have, not unexpectedly, and kind of amusingly, people saying things like: "I would listen to Mr.Dawkins even if he was talking to a tree," and "Regardless of the luggage of the hostess, it's always a delight to hear professor Dawkins speak."

I take that back. Often enough I've watched full talks of Dawkins, even long ones; and often enough I've left midway, having other thngs to do; but for the first time I left a Dawkins talk in disgust. At the 20 minute mark. Thanks to the atrocious interviewing by Amber.

She's a compulsive liar, there's no doubt about that. Dawkins discusses his hate mail, and she pipes up, claiming she receives a great deal of hate mail herself, which is entirely believable, but then she claims that she gets her hate mail because she's an atheist. What utter BS. Then she tells Dawkins she's been taught Creationism in Catholic School. So Dawkins is surprised at that, saying Catholics at any rate he understood to support evolution, given that the last four or five Popes, whom he names, recognized and supported it. So then she changes her story, and says she was taught evolution in school, but elsewhere around her is where Creationism ideas were all around. And she'd keep hamming away ridiculously, and would keep interrupting Dawkins and keep on talking, so that at one point I found myself actually saying aloud, "Shut the **** up, and let him speak!"

Yes, she probably did herself no favors by identifying with atheism and with Dawkins so publicly like this, but she's one crazy lying person, and her associating with atheism at this troubled time owes less, I think, to either courage or naivety as to simply crazy. Eww, what an utterly repulsive human being --- despite the superficial surface hot-ness. Must be actual hell for anyone to be latched on to someone like that.
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Old 19th June 2022, 04:22 PM   #844
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I think it probably is doing oneself a favor to identify with atheism nowadays. Among young educated people it is not risqué to be an atheist. People who go see standup comedy, for instance, have to be prepared for some religion bashing.

When you look at the comedians who have become talkshow hosts, I think that the majority of them are atheists, with Stephen Colbert as an exception, but even he seems to be more of a Cultural Catholic than an actual, old-fashioned one. And many of his favorite guests on The Late Show are either very outspoken atheists or at the most Cultural Christians: Neil deGrasse Tyson, Ricky Gervais, John Oliver, Jon Stewart ... With some of them, it's hard to tell. Stewart may be culturally Jewish rather than an outright atheist.

Bill Maher, Jimmy Carr, Sarah Silverman, Anthony Jeselnik, Samantha Bee, Nikki Glaser, ... atheist, agnostic, or cultural whatever, is my guess for all of the ones who aren't openly atheist.
There are the very old ones like Woody Allen and the long deceased ones like George Carlin and Lenny Bruce. (However, I can't think of any black comedians spending much (or any) time poking fun at religion, for some reason.)

Are there any actually Christian comedians at all?
I couldn't think of any, so I had to google it: 27 Top Christian Comedians You Need to Know (Updated for 2020). I never heard about a single one of them, and they are supposed to be the Top 27!!!
It's a little like Christian rock'n'roll in that respect.

Face it, it's cool to be an atheist today, at least in cool circles it is. Hipsters, if they still exist, will soon have to become Christians to feel special.

Heard may just have noticed a trend and decided to try to jump on the wagon. She is (or was) in show business. She is not running for office and trying not to offend voters in the Bible Belt. (And dressing up for court to the extent where she almost looked Amish didn't work out!)
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 19th June 2022 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 19th June 2022, 06:23 PM   #845
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I think it probably is doing oneself a favor to identify with atheism nowadays.
You're missing the point completely. Heard did herself a disfavor, by identifying as an atheist, to an actual atheist, when she hadn't actually thought about atheism at all and couldn't discuss the topic intelligently.

This thread isn't about atheism, it's about Amber Heard and Johnny Depp. Notably, it's about Heard trying to convince people she's a serious person with serious insights on serious topics, and failing miserably where it matters most. For example, when interviewing Richard Dawkins and trying to convince him she's a serious atheist when she isn't.
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Old 19th June 2022, 09:11 PM   #846
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Because it was a secret to her that her interview with Dawkins was being recorded, and she never expected anybody else to see it, right?!
You are missing the point completely!
Quote:
Heard has been involved with LGBT rights, Amnesty International and the United Nations program Girl Up. Her beguiling physicality has also landed her on numerous magazine covers, including Missbehave in April 2008. In that issue, she talked about how being raised in "a strict Catholic environment" led her to know "I will never be a religious person."

In an interview, she recalled students at her Catholic middle school getting extra credit for "community service" by protesting at abortion clinics. "I remember going into the classroom during homeroom and [my classmates] were making these posters with terrifying images, and I remember saying to myself, 'I would rather be unpopular than do that to another human being.' " (net-a-porter.com, Nov. 30, 2018)

"I'd like to thank the way I was raised for giving me enough knowledge about organized religion to make the adult decision to live the rest of my life without it. I don't think you can believe or not believe in anything unless you know a lot about it. I know Christianity, especially Catholicism, like the back of my hand. And my education has given me the freedom to know that it is completely absurd for me to believe it."
—Missbehave magazine, April/May 2008
Amber Heard (Freedom from Religion Foundation)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 19th June 2022 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 20th June 2022, 07:15 AM   #847
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Unexpectedly low ratings for Heard's NBC interview apparently. I wonder if a lot of people didn't watch it (at least, in its entirety) for the same reason I haven't - she goes so far over my cringe threshold, is just so embarrassing that I can't bear it. I'm not joking.
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Old 20th June 2022, 09:39 AM   #848
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dann, theprestige,

Neither of you have directly quoted me, so it could be you were merely referencing the video I’d linked, and not so much my own comments; so that this clarification, in that case, would be irrelevant; but still, I’d like to clearly spell out where exactly I was coming from.

I'm not very sure when exactly this talk/interview is from, but the comments at the top date from about a year ago, and that is when Amber was already embroiled in her legal troubles. And, while it may well be that atheism is getting to be more "cool" in certain circles — which is a great thing to be happening, absolutely — but still, if you're looking for general public sympathy with the average American (as you'd probably do, if your fortunes depended on what a random jury comprising "average" Americans might think of you), well then advertising your atheism like this is then not a very canny thing to do. Either it is courageous, or else it is naive. And either of those, I thought, would speak well of Amber, the former for obvious reasons, and the latter because it shows she's not quite as calculating a liar in general as the court case clearly showed her to be in the Johnny Depp affair.

I'd still go for the naivety theory, basis my slightly longer watch of that video, basically Amber having her fangirl moment and gushing over and saying some cringe-worthy things. For instance that utterly cringe-worthy moment where she interrupts Dawkins to announce how “we who are in public life” have all of this power, but with this great power comes great responsibility, and dropping this absurd cliché with the air of thinking her way through to some profound observation. And all of this in the space of a mere 20 minutes: who knows what further depths she plumbs going forward.

None of which is necessarily a bad thing, of course, in fact if you’re so inclined you might actually see emerging a picture of her that is merely unsophisticated and somewhat gauche, as opposed to the cold calculating vamp we saw in the courtroom. Except: It is clear, like I pointed out in my previous comment, that she's clearly an inveterate liar, compulsively lying about even entirely inconsequential things (two clear instances in a short span of 20 minutes). Which lying, too, I suppose is harmless enough in this specific context, the interview I mean to say; but I’m afraid it brought to mind her conduct in the Johnny Depp affair, how she'd been conclusively shown in court to have been lying; and how her compulsive lying almost ended up destroying an innocent man's life. (Innocent only in this specific instance; I'm not suggesting Depp is any kind of paragon, and no doubt he's exactly the opposite of "innocent" in every other way. But your typical one-way aggressive SOB wife-beater and wife-abuser clearly he was not, which is what Amber tried to lie her way into painting him as.)

So that, in context of the trial, her otherwise harmless enough casual disingenuity in that interview (that short portion of it that I watched), ended up striking me as distinctly ...I don't know, repulsive?

Last edited by Chanakya; 20th June 2022 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 21st June 2022, 06:25 AM   #849
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My post was a comment on: "she probably did herself no favors by identifying with atheism and with Dawkins so publicly like this."

It is possible that Dawkins came prepared for the interview unlike Heard. He may already have read the quotations (see post 846) and wondered about her anecdote from Catholic school before he met her. But I also don't know when the interview was made.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 21st June 2022, 07:06 AM   #850
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
My post was a comment on: "she probably did herself no favors by identifying with atheism and with Dawkins so publicly like this."

It is possible that Dawkins came prepared for the interview unlike Heard. He may already have read the quotations (see post 846) and wondered about her anecdote from Catholic school before he met her. But I also don't know when the interview was made.

In that case, while I'm no longer half as impressed by that as I originally had been, but still, it's a fact that AH did not do herself any favors with that interview in purely practical terms as far as her legal issues, despite the (very welcome) uptick in the numbers of atheists you pointed out, given that theists (unfortunately) continue to far outnumber atheists, at least in the US.

As for when the interview took place, I didn't go back to the video, but a quick Google check shows that it was in October 2019. For context, JD sued AH, and I looked that up just now, in February 2019.
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Old 21st June 2022, 07:41 AM   #851
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Theists may outnumber atheists but the question is how theistic they actually are. To what extent are they merely going through the motions because that's what you're supposed to do. I don't think that religion dies by everybody deciding to become hard-core atheists. It's much more relaxed and down-to-earth. At least, that's how it happened in my country: The Death of Religion – not with a bang but with a whimper.
And I think that this is what scares the **** out of Evangelicals.
Like you, I can do without atheists like Amber Heard (and unlike you, I'm not too fond of atheists like Dawkins).
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 21st June 2022, 07:48 AM   #852
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I wonder if there is any cause or movement that would count itself favored by Heard's association, right now.
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Old 21st June 2022, 09:13 AM   #853
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Theists may outnumber atheists but the question is how theistic they actually are. To what extent are they merely going through the motions because that's what you're supposed to do. I don't think that religion dies by everybody deciding to become hard-core atheists. It's much more relaxed and down-to-earth. At least, that's how it happened in my country: The Death of Religion – not with a bang but with a whimper.
And I think that this is what scares the **** out of Evangelicals.
Like you, I can do without atheists like Amber Heard (and unlike you, I'm not too fond of atheists like Dawkins).

Oh really? Why not?

(I realize Amber's atheism is itself a tangent, and our views about Dawkins an out-and-out off-topic diversion. If you like you could start a separate thread; nor do I mind starting a separate thread myself around this discussion, even if that discussion spans no more than just a handful of posts. If I find that I have anything meaningful to add to or follow up on your response, then I'll just go ahead and do that, start a separate thread, rather than responding here.)

But I'm curious: What's not to like with Dawkins and his atheism? I find his views very reasonable, and remarkably well articulated.
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Old 21st June 2022, 11:50 AM   #854
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That Dawkins has become a publicity whore, for one thing.
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Old 21st June 2022, 12:04 PM   #855
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I wonder if there is any cause or movement that would count itself favored by Heard's association, right now.
There's an ophthalmological product called "artificial tears" for those with dry eyes, perhaps her agent could get her a commercial.
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Old 21st June 2022, 01:40 PM   #856
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
There's an ophthalmological product called "artificial tears" for those with dry eyes, perhaps her agent could get her a commercial.
And maybe one of those cosmetic bruise kits.

The theatrical kind, for making fake bruises, not covering them up.
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Old 22nd June 2022, 12:34 AM   #857
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Oh really? Why not?

(I realize Amber's atheism is itself a tangent, and our views about Dawkins an out-and-out off-topic diversion. If you like you could start a separate thread; nor do I mind starting a separate thread myself around this discussion, even if that discussion spans no more than just a handful of posts. If I find that I have anything meaningful to add to or follow up on your response, then I'll just go ahead and do that, start a separate thread, rather than responding here.)

But I'm curious: What's not to like with Dawkins and his atheism? I find his views very reasonable, and remarkably well articulated.

Quote:
Forget labels like “right wing” & “dark web”, read a book without preconceptions about the author & judge what it actually says. For what it’s worth, I always vote left & I think Douglas Murray’s The War on the West is utterly superb. Please read it with an open mind. Please.
https://twitter.com/richarddawkins/s...281664?lang=en

Read a book without preconceptions. Yes, OK. But appeals like, "Please read it with an open mind. Please.", from a guy who's supposed to be some kind of skeptic?! Why does he encourage me to please read right-wing drivel with an 'open mind'?
Dawkins is not the only atheist nowadays who seems to focus almost exclusively on the bad kind of religion, the one that isn't our kind of religion. Besides, he always tended towards Social Darwinism. I'm with Richard Lewontin and Stephen Jay Gould on that one.
So Dawkins has discovered that there is no god. Of course, there isn't. It's common knowledge in the civilized world. That don't impress me. Neither does the atheism of Amber Heard.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 22nd June 2022, 03:53 AM   #858
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post

But I'm curious: What's not to like with Dawkins and his atheism? I find his views very reasonable, and remarkably well articulated.
Never trust anyone who tells you that they don't need evidence for their position, but you need evidence if you want to disagree with them.
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Old 22nd June 2022, 06:36 AM   #859
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dann, dudalb, lomiller, and anyone else who might like to weigh in on Dawkins, as far as his views on athiesm and how he articulates them in public:

Here's the link to a new thread I've started just now (where in the OP I've taken the liberty of quoting your posts): http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post13838881
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Old 22nd June 2022, 06:41 AM   #860
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Whoops, should have gone in that other thread. That was the whole point of that thread after all. Deleted from here, and copied there instead.

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Old 22nd June 2022, 10:36 AM   #861
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Richard Dawkins? Meh. Why do people find him so compelling? He's a 'biologist' and as far as I'm concerned that doesn't make him a 'scientist' or someone qualified to hold forth on what 'science', philosophically speaking, actually means.

What, exactly, has he contributed materially or in any other way?

For transparency, I believe (sic) that the oxymoronically-named "theoretical physics" and its sister "astrophysics" are horseh!t, mathematical mind-games played by philosophical pygmies riding on the shoulders of the engineering geniuses (the real physicists) who design and build the toys they play with (and from which they carve out lucrative careers).
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Old 22nd June 2022, 10:45 AM   #862
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Why, apart from getting to bask in the admiration (or so he presumed) of a hot woman, do you think Dawkins agreed to sit down with Amber Heard?

I think I answered that question in posing it.
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Old 22nd June 2022, 06:07 PM   #863
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So Heard did an interview with NBC. One of her answers is kind of problematic, since it basically suggested a possible inadvertent admission that she wasn't an abuse victim. Not a big surprise, we know Heard's a liar regarding abuse. The real news about the interview, though, is that NBC edited the interview to change what she said and remove that part. And it's not just truncated or omitted, they edited out part of the middle of a sentence.
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It looks very much like NBC is trying to cover for Heard.
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Old 23rd June 2022, 07:56 AM   #864
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Why, apart from getting to bask in the admiration (or so he presumed) of a hot woman, do you think Dawkins agreed to sit down with Amber Heard?

I think I answered that question in posing it.
To publish a show.

Possibly there are contractual obligations to fill x hours of content in y period of time with z audience/subscriber levels.

In any case, to continue generating revenue from doing so. This often involves having on guests that the public are interested in hearing from.
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