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Old 25th May 2022, 03:21 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Remember, it's the 75% of the US population who support gun control who are the real villains and the real threat to public safety.
If the majority want something done but sit there doing nothing but watch tumbleweed then they are part of the problem.
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Old 25th May 2022, 03:32 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
If the majority want something done but sit there doing nothing but watch tumbleweed then they are part of the problem.
True.

Even though they agree with Democratic Party policies on a case-by-case basis, a significant proportion of people somehow still vote Republican.
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Old 25th May 2022, 03:41 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What is worrying is that there are going to be alot of surplus M 16 in a few years; since the US Army has..after over 50 years...finally chosen a replacement with a Sig Sauer rifle as the new standard.The M 16 is now de facto obsolete for the Military.
Just afraid rather then junk them they will be sold to companies for "export and sale to freindly foreign governments" but a lot of leakage will occur....
That is the case with front line troops but a lot of M-4's are going to be kept for non combatant troops, like truck drivers at least for the foreseeable future.
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Old 25th May 2022, 04:33 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
False equivalence. Biden cannot issue XO's regarding gun control measures. Those have to be passed by Congress.

Thanks for proving my point.

If you don't like it, stop providing it in the first place.
There are existing laws on guns and we have a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. It is possible to help them find and destroy illegal guns. Also, ghost guns have to be tracked down. Biden can't ban automatic weapons, but there is a lot of gun activity that crosses state lines.
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Old 25th May 2022, 04:45 AM   #205
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As someone commented on twitter,
Why is it you can't get a Kinder egg but you can buy a firearm in the US?
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Old 25th May 2022, 04:54 AM   #206
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Since the GOP now has the Supreme Court, why are they not hurrying to ban the ATF? It has no basis in the constitution.

The only thing they can regulate is guns crossing state lines. But that would only be illegal guns. And why are there illegal guns? What business do the FEDS have cataloging state residents for guns?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/comm...ndian%20tribes.
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Old 25th May 2022, 05:12 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
As someone commented on twitter,
Why is it you can't get a Kinder egg but you can buy a firearm in the US?

OK, I'll bite. Why can't you get a Kinder egg in the USA?

Actually, having just read the Secret Barrister's latest book, I'll never look at Kinder eggs the same way again.
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Old 25th May 2022, 05:14 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
OK, I'll bite. Why can't you get a Kinder egg in the USA?

Actually, having just read the Secret Barrister's latest book, I'll never look at Kinder eggs the same way again.
Food safety regs don't allow for non-food items to be inside food. Kinder eggs famously have a plastic capsule inside containing a toy.
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Old 25th May 2022, 05:17 AM   #209
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I guess I'm more of an optimist than most because I expect Congress, lead by Republicans, to take positive, concrete action on this continual flood of mass shootings in the news by making a law stopping news from reporting mass shootings. They'll be classified as officially secret, thereby solving the problem forever.
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Old 25th May 2022, 05:36 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Food safety regs don't allow for non-food items to be inside food. Kinder eggs famously have a plastic capsule inside containing a toy.

Thank you. US food safety regs would have a fit about the traditional Scottish dumpling. (Although these are invariably home-made, you can't buy anything in a shop where you'd break a tooth on a coin cunningly baked into the middle of your mouthful of steamed fruit pudding.)

According the The Secret Barrister, the plartic capsules incorporated into Kinder eggs have been adopted for a somewhat different purpose by drug smugglers.
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Old 25th May 2022, 05:37 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I guess I'm more of an optimist than most because I expect Congress, lead by Republicans, to take positive, concrete action on this continual flood of mass shootings in the news by making a law stopping news from reporting mass shootings. They'll be classified as officially secret, thereby solving the problem forever.
That would probably reduce the incidence as previous school shooters often seem to inspire subsequent ones - perverse role models.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:10 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I guess I'm more of an optimist than most because I expect Congress, lead by Republicans, to take positive, concrete action on this continual flood of mass shootings in the news by making a law stopping news from reporting mass shootings. They'll be classified as officially secret, thereby solving the problem forever.
The gun lobby has been promoting a big lie ever since John Lott wrote More Guns, Less Crime. Legislatures in red states have been racing to become more gun friendly over the last few years. Eliminating state permit requirements for purchasing guns or carrying a concealed firearm. The result has been more guns, more gun crime and more gun deaths.

Texas will respond to this horror by promoting more guns. Arming teachers, putting armed guards in schools and fortifying buildings. A rational society would start by asking why a disturbed 18 year old was able to legally buy weapons and body armor.

We already know the answer. The system failed in the same way it failed in the Virginia Tech massacre, the Aurora theatre massacre and the Tucson grocery store shooting. The suspect had shown clear evidence of being mentally disturbed but had not been involuntarily committed to an institution.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:13 AM   #213
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America trying to turn back the tide of guns, is like Canute trying to turn back the tide.

Americans need to accept gun massacres is normal for them.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:15 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Americans need to accept gun massacres is normal for them.
We have. Nothing is going to happen.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:26 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
America trying to turn back the tide of guns, is like Canute trying to turn back the tide.

Americans need to accept gun massacres is normal for them.

Well, at least Canute knew he couldn't turn back the tide.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:28 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
...Americans need to accept gun massacres is normal for them.
Not a comforting prospect. Because once people decide something is normal, they'll start looking for ways to put it to use to benefit themselves.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:34 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
Not a comforting prospect. Because once people decide something is normal, they'll start looking for ways to put it to use to benefit themselves.
I'd argue that the NRA, gun manufacturers and right wing politicians have been doing this for years, decades even.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:36 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
We have. Nothing is going to happen.
Yes this is obvious. Are you happy with this?

An honest answer would be “I accept gun deaths, including massacres of young children, is an acceptable cost of our second amendment rights”.

Are you prepared to make this statement?
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:38 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes this is obvious. Are you happy with this?

An honest answer would be “I accept gun deaths, including massacres of young children, is an acceptable cost of our second amendment rights”.

Are you prepared to make this statement?
You should take a deep breath and maybe get some fresh air...
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:39 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes this is obvious. Are you happy with this?

An honest answer would be “I accept gun deaths, including massacres of young children, is an acceptable cost of our second amendment rights”.

Are you prepared to make this statement?
My comment wasn't meant as an endorsement, just an acknowledgement of reality. The insane minority has only tightened its grip on power over the last few years and the child sacrifices to Moloch will continue unabated.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:40 AM   #221
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Curious to find out the details of how this guy who crashed his truck and got into a shootout with cops managed to gain entry to the school and gun down victims without interference.

The smart better would guess "the cops ran away to wait for backup" as the answer.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:41 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes this is obvious. Are you happy with this?

An honest answer would be “I accept gun deaths, including massacres of young children, is an acceptable cost of our second amendment rights”.

Are you prepared to make this statement?
Switch 2nd amendment to first and swish it around. Does it still feel right?

For me, it's not about owning guns. It's about the type of civilian guns available and the lack of regulation.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:43 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I'd argue that the NRA, gun manufacturers and right wing politicians have been doing this for years, decades even.
Bad enough, but how far away are we from having certain political factions entertain the "gun massacre option" as a way of promoting their agendas? A few years ago such a question would seem alarmist hyperbole. But after January 6, I have to wonder if even now there's some people thinking, "if we'd only brought some guns!" Normalize gun massacres, and maybe a lot more people start thinking it.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:48 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
Not a comforting prospect. Because once people decide something is normal, they'll start looking for ways to put it to use to benefit themselves.
They make great advertising for a specific gun. The gun used always gets real popular after such a mass shooting.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:49 AM   #225
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NRA happens to be having a conference in Houston this weekend. Texas Gov. Abbott is scheduled to speak Friday.

Would be a damn shame if a rowdy mob happened to show up.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:50 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
My comment wasn't meant as an endorsement, just an acknowledgement of reality. The insane minority has only tightened its grip on power over the last few years and the child sacrifices to Moloch will continue unabated.
So you accept the reality of such massacres. Fair enough. What should be done about it? Simply accept the religious acceptance of the right of 18 year olds to purchase semi automatics without even background checks?
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:52 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Curious to find out the details of how this guy who crashed his truck and got into a shootout with cops managed to gain entry to the school and gun down victims without interference.

The smart better would guess "the cops ran away to wait for backup" as the answer.
The truck wasn't just a little crashed ether, the pictures I've seen show the wheels themselves completely knocked off of it, not an easy feat even if that is your intent. It implied to me it was put in the ditch at very high speed. Was he already being pursued after attempting to kill grandma, or simply anticipating it so he fled that scene at high speed? There's no good answers to those questions and, honestly, I'm still, for lack of a better word,numb from this horrific event.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:53 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
So you accept the reality of such massacres. Fair enough. What should be done about it? Simply accept the religious acceptance of the right of 18 year olds to purchase semi automatics without even background checks?
It's obviously a political problem, or at least a political question.

Considering how laughably ineffective the liberal opposition is in this country, I doubt there's much reason to expect a solution. The dems have been asleep at the wheel for decades.

ETA: Dems leadership just successfully circled the wagons around a Texas anti-abortion incumbent to fend off a progressive challenger. Coincidentally, Rep. Cuellar publicly refused to refund NRA donations in response to prior mass shootings.

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Old 25th May 2022, 06:54 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Switch 2nd amendment to first and swish it around. Does it still feel right?

For me, it's not about owning guns. It's about the type of civilian guns available and the lack of regulation.
And yet for much of the world it is about owning guns. In Australia and many other countries it requires a reason for owning guns. And that reason doesn’t include self defence.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:56 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's obviously a political problem, or at least a political question.

Considering how laughably ineffective the liberal opposition is in this country, I doubt there's much reason to expect a solution. The dems have been asleep at the wheel for decades.
Yes, I expected you to avoid my questions. Well done.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:57 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes, I expected you to avoid my questions. Well done.
I have no idea what you think a "real" answer would be here.
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Old 25th May 2022, 07:03 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I have no idea what you think a "real" answer would be here.
Something about gun control laws which would prevent an 18 year old from purchasing semi automatic rifles without even background checks.

Know what? Unlike you I don’t care if it’s republican or democratic fault. It’s the fault of the US.
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Old 25th May 2022, 07:03 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
And yet for much of the world it is about owning guns. In Australia and many other countries it requires a reason for owning guns. And that reason doesn’t include self defence.
I'd agree, except that at least for the interim, self-defense is a real thing because our genie is long out of the bottle. At some level, we have to be practical about the mess we already have in our laps, no matter how we got here.

I like my NJ USA laws, but would ramp them up even more. No carry, open or concealed. Firearm purchasing/ownership card required, revokable upon violent and/or criminal activity.

But we have a metric **** ton of weapons on the street, and a populace that has no hesitancy to use them. Gots to disarm the bad guys before paring down the good guys, and that is no trivial effort.
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Old 25th May 2022, 07:04 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Something about gun control laws which would prevent an 18 year old from purchasing semi automatic rifles without even background checks.

Know what? Unlike you I don’t care if it’s republican or democratic fault. It’s the fault of the US.
Wouldn't he pass a background check?
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Old 25th May 2022, 07:08 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Something about gun control laws which would prevent an 18 year old from purchasing semi automatic rifles without even background checks.

Know what? Unlike you I don’t care if it’s republican or democratic fault. It’s the fault of the US.
Democrat leadership just made a heroic 11th hour effort to protect an anti-abortion Texas Dem. incumbent with an A-rating from the NRA. he won by 117 votes.

The Republicans are publicly bathing in the blood of children and Dem leadership still thinks squashing progressives is more important than having principles about anything. Nothing is going to happen.

Dems probably couldn't get their own members to agree about a gun control bill, much less have the competency to go toe-to-toe with the Republicans on the issue.

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Old 25th May 2022, 07:09 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
So you accept the reality of such massacres. Fair enough. What should be done about it? Simply accept the religious acceptance of the right of 18 year olds to purchase semi automatics without even background checks?
What should be done: For starters, guns designed for the sole purpose of killing lots of people in a short amount of time should be illegal. The only practical application they have is mass murder, which (call me a wild man) I'd like to discourage. Second, some sort of background check system.

What I expect to be done: Not a whole lot. Too many people see any form of gun control, even the most trivial and symbolic, as the first domino in a liberal chain reaction where they end up slaves to gay atheist baby-killing communist immigrants.
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Old 25th May 2022, 07:20 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
So you accept the reality of such massacres. Fair enough. What should be done about it? Simply accept the religious acceptance of the right of 18 year olds to purchase semi automatics without even background checks?
It is likely easier for an 18 year old to pass a background check, because of their lack of a background.
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Old 25th May 2022, 07:25 AM   #238
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Did everyone remember to buy stocks in gun companies?

Nothing drives gun sales better than dead children.
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Old 25th May 2022, 07:26 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'd agree, except that at least for the interim, self-defense is a real thing because our genie is long out of the bottle. At some level, we have to be practical about the mess we already have in our laps, no matter how we got here.

I like my NJ USA laws, but would ramp them up even more. No carry, open or concealed. Firearm purchasing/ownership card required, revokable upon violent and/or criminal activity.

But we have a metric **** ton of weapons on the street, and a populace that has no hesitancy to use them. Gots to disarm the bad guys before paring down the good guys, and that is no trivial effort.
Yes I agree it’s a huge effort, but in Australia we had massive semi automatic gun ownership in Australia, but after a number of well known massacres in Australia, culminating with Port Arthur, gun control happened. We haven’t had any since then.

Do gun deaths still happen here? Yes of course. But we don’t have pathetic loners tooling up and killing many people any more.
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Old 25th May 2022, 07:26 AM   #240
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The kid had worked at Wendy's for 10 dollars or less an hour. He was not going to graduate. Yet he somehow had collected enough to buy the guns. Let's say 700 dollars, though he had two guns. So it took him some 4 weeks or so of saving, if his parents were taking care of room and board.

So there had to be that much planning. He also had a vest.
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