Science & Reason Can Make The World A Better Place

skepticsalamander · 13th June 2022, 09:03 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C29k4rHMdp8

Please discuss!

The Great Zaganza · 13th June 2022, 10:10 PM

if you want to discuss something, please post your ideas here.

Don't do a shameless link to your own video in order to drive up views.

MBDK · 13th June 2022, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

if you want to discuss something, please post your ideas here.

Don't do a shameless link to your own video in order to drive up views.

Hear, hear!

Puppycow · 13th June 2022, 11:56 PM

I watched the video. It's only 57 seconds long.

I guess I agree with most of what you said.

But of course, it's never easy to get people to embrace science and reason over superstition and bigotry. And when you bring religion and politics into it from the very beginning, you immediately alienate a lot of people. You'll end up just preaching to people who already agree with you.

alfaniner · 14th June 2022, 05:58 AM

I remember first finding out about the internet. (or world wide web - I don't make a distinction and don't even know what it is.) I thought, wow, now people all over the world are going to be able to communicate almost instantly. It's going be like the ansible in Ender's Game, opening up a whole new world where people will be able to see other points of view and perspectives, and eventually it will boil down to a massive truth that will be obvious to everyone. I mean, who would use it to spread anything but facts?

Boy, was I wrong.

sir drinks-a-lot · 14th June 2022, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I watched the video. It's only 57 seconds long.

I guess I agree with most of what you said.

But of course, it's never easy to get people to embrace science and reason over superstition and bigotry. And when you bring religion and politics into it from the very beginning, you immediately alienate a lot of people. You'll end up just preaching to people who already agree with you.

I'm not sure that science and bigotry are mutually exclusive. See trans issues for only one example. People who reference the science are considered by many to be bigots.

The Great Zaganza · 14th June 2022, 06:24 AM

instead of invoking Science & Reason, I would go with something both simpler and more fundamental:

the principle of incremental improvement

a lot of the problem I see with the rejection of reason comes from the belief that there is the actual possibility of an Utopia, either as a state of the past (Eden), the future (political communism) or in an afterlife; anyone who says he can get you there is an enemy of Reason.
We will never reach a Perfect Solution for any problem, because by the time we solved the problem we realize that it was only part of a bigger one, or we learn that there are other ways to improve our situation.

Never seek or ask for Perfection, just look what greatest good you can do the with the least effort (Pareto style), so that you can quickly reiterate the process and find the next thing in reach you can improve on.

Lplus · 14th June 2022, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

instead of invoking Science & Reason, I would go with something both simpler and more fundamental:

the principle of incremental improvement

a lot of the problem I see with the rejection of reason comes from the belief that there is the actual possibility of an Utopia, either as a state of the past (Eden), the future (political communism) or in an afterlife; anyone who says he can get you there is an enemy of Reason.
We will never reach a Perfect Solution for any problem, because by the time we solved the problem we realize that it was only part of a bigger one, or we learn that there are other ways to improve our situation.

Never seek or ask for Perfection, just look what greatest good you can do the with the least effort (Pareto style), so that you can quickly reiterate the process and find the next thing in reach you can improve on.

you might even reduce it to the highlighted.

Pixel42 · 14th June 2022, 10:12 PM

Science and reason have already made the world a better place.

Craig4 · 15th June 2022, 12:08 AM

There was some confusion on this point?

rjh01 · 15th June 2022, 01:51 PM

I think the author has a lot to learn. How does science make a better world?

shemp · 15th June 2022, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

I remember first finding out about the internet. (or world wide web - I don't make a distinction and don't even know what it is.) I thought, wow, now people all over the world are going to be able to communicate almost instantly. It's going be like the ansible in Ender's Game, opening up a whole new world where people will be able to see other points of view and perspectives, and eventually it will boil down to a massive truth that will be obvious to everyone. I mean, who would use it to spread anything but facts?

Boy, was I wrong.

But at least you were spectacularly wrong.

Gord_in_Toronto · 19th June 2022, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by Lplus

you might even reduce it to the highlighted.

Gord checks his sig. Hmm. Someone may have already done that.

Thor 2 · 20th June 2022, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

Science and reason have already made the world a better place.

Originally Posted by rjh01

I think the author has a lot to learn. How does science make a better world?

Seems to be a disagreement here.

I'm with Pixel here. Science sure has made the world a more comfortable place for us homo sapiens, but we must be cautious of the risks of some scientific advances - atom bombs and such.

mgidm86 · 22nd June 2022, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

I think the author has a lot to learn. How does science make a better world?

Valid question. Someone above mentioned that it has made life easier for humans, but we are not the world (nor the children). Or not necessarily.

Is the planet and everything on it better or worse for our science?

I think the cows, pigs and chickens would disagree that science, or human beings for that matter, have been a bonus for them. I think The World would be better off without us.

rjh01 · 23rd June 2022, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

Seems to be a disagreement here.

I'm with Pixel here. Science sure has made the world a more comfortable place for us homo sapiens, but we must be cautious of the risks of some scientific advances - atom bombs and such.

I agree science has helped make the world a better place. It is just that the video does not do a good job of explaining that.

There are many other factors that have helped make the world a better place. One of the critical ones is giving women more power and the right to have a well-paid job that does not discriminate against them. Plus infant mortality has gone down (though this has been a benefit of science). So parents now have fewer children and give them more resources (time, money, rights). The last major war (where most people were involved either as soldiers or producing war materials) ended in 1945. This means that governments can invest in other things such as the space race.

Edited by sarge:

edited to remove moderated content

13th June 2022, 09:03 PM	#1
skepticsalamander New Blood Join Date: Feb 2022 Posts: 24	Science & Reason Can Make The World A Better Place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C29k4rHMdp8 Please discuss!

13th June 2022, 10:10 PM	#2
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 18,108	if you want to discuss something, please post your ideas here. Don't do a shameless link to your own video in order to drive up views.
	__________________ "When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." - Emo Philips

13th June 2022, 11:00 PM	#3
MBDK Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 328	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza if you want to discuss something, please post your ideas here. Don't do a shameless link to your own video in order to drive up views. Hear, hear!
MBDK Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 328

13th June 2022, 11:56 PM	#4
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 27,113	I watched the video. It's only 57 seconds long. I guess I agree with most of what you said. But of course, it's never easy to get people to embrace science and reason over superstition and bigotry. And when you bring religion and politics into it from the very beginning, you immediately alienate a lot of people. You'll end up just preaching to people who already agree with you.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

14th June 2022, 05:58 AM	#5
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 26,754	I remember first finding out about the internet. (or world wide web - I don't make a distinction and don't even know what it is.) I thought, wow, now people all over the world are going to be able to communicate almost instantly. It's going be like the ansible in Ender's Game, opening up a whole new world where people will be able to see other points of view and perspectives, and eventually it will boil down to a massive truth that will be obvious to everyone. I mean, who would use it to spread anything but facts? Boy, was I wrong.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

14th June 2022, 06:09 AM	#6
sir drinks-a-lot Philosopher Join Date: May 2004 Location: Cole Valley, CA Posts: 5,153	Originally Posted by Puppycow I watched the video. It's only 57 seconds long. I guess I agree with most of what you said. But of course, it's never easy to get people to embrace science and reason over superstition and bigotry. And when you bring religion and politics into it from the very beginning, you immediately alienate a lot of people. You'll end up just preaching to people who already agree with you. I'm not sure that science and bigotry are mutually exclusive. See trans issues for only one example. People who reference the science are considered by many to be bigots.
	__________________ I don't like that man. I must get to know him better. --Abraham Lincoln

14th June 2022, 06:24 AM	#7
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 18,108	instead of invoking Science & Reason, I would go with something both simpler and more fundamental: the principle of incremental improvement a lot of the problem I see with the rejection of reason comes from the belief that there is the actual possibility of an Utopia, either as a state of the past (Eden), the future (political communism) or in an afterlife; anyone who says he can get you there is an enemy of Reason. We will never reach a Perfect Solution for any problem, because by the time we solved the problem we realize that it was only part of a bigger one, or we learn that there are other ways to improve our situation. Never seek or ask for Perfection, just look what greatest good you can do the with the least effort (Pareto style), so that you can quickly reiterate the process and find the next thing in reach you can improve on.
	__________________ "When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." - Emo Philips

14th June 2022, 09:37 AM	#8
Lplus Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,044	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza instead of invoking Science & Reason, I would go with something both simpler and more fundamental: the principle of incremental improvement a lot of the problem I see with the rejection of reason comes from the belief that there is the actual possibility of an Utopia, either as a state of the past (Eden), the future (political communism) or in an afterlife; anyone who says he can get you there is an enemy of Reason. We will never reach a Perfect Solution for any problem, because by the time we solved the problem we realize that it was only part of a bigger one, or we learn that there are other ways to improve our situation. Never seek or ask for Perfection, just look what greatest good you can do the with the least effort (Pareto style), so that you can quickly reiterate the process and find the next thing in reach you can improve on. you might even reduce it to the highlighted.
Lplus Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,044	__________________ Life isn't fair, Princess; anyone who says it could be is selling a political ideology. Whinging on internet forums is the last resort of the powerless

14th June 2022, 10:12 PM	#9
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 14,692	Science and reason have already made the world a better place.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

15th June 2022, 12:08 AM	#10
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 25,365	There was some confusion on this point?
	__________________ Fight like a Ukrainian.

15th June 2022, 01:51 PM	#11
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 27,344	I think the author has a lot to learn. How does science make a better world?
	__________________ This signature is for rent.

15th June 2022, 08:06 PM	#12
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Out back preparing the bunker for the next Civil War Posts: 48,718	Originally Posted by alfaniner I remember first finding out about the internet. (or world wide web - I don't make a distinction and don't even know what it is.) I thought, wow, now people all over the world are going to be able to communicate almost instantly. It's going be like the ansible in Ender's Game, opening up a whole new world where people will be able to see other points of view and perspectives, and eventually it will boil down to a massive truth that will be obvious to everyone. I mean, who would use it to spread anything but facts? Boy, was I wrong. But at least you were spectacularly wrong.
	__________________ Counting the days to Civil War II.

19th June 2022, 05:45 AM	#13
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,540	Originally Posted by Lplus you might even reduce it to the highlighted. Gord checks his sig. Hmm. Someone may have already done that.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

20th June 2022, 03:49 PM	#14
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Tiny town west of Brisbane. Posts: 7,039	Originally Posted by Pixel42 Science and reason have already made the world a better place. Originally Posted by rjh01 I think the author has a lot to learn. How does science make a better world? Seems to be a disagreement here. I'm with Pixel here. Science sure has made the world a more comfortable place for us homo sapiens, but we must be cautious of the risks of some scientific advances - atom bombs and such.
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

22nd June 2022, 05:21 PM	#15
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,889	Originally Posted by rjh01 I think the author has a lot to learn. How does science make a better world? Valid question. Someone above mentioned that it has made life easier for humans, but we are not the world (nor the children). Or not necessarily. Is the planet and everything on it better or worse for our science? I think the cows, pigs and chickens would disagree that science, or human beings for that matter, have been a bonus for them. I think The World would be better off without us.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,889	__________________ Thanks and bye.