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Old 16th June 2022, 10:38 AM   #161
shuttlt
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Holup, man. The advocacy group is helping Abseleth, as she doesn't appear to be well-off, and without the resources for a years-long custody battle. They are tossed at the end of the news media reporting, as is customary lately. They are by no means the focus.
Sure... but where has the information in the news story come from? Is this a story where a journalist is researching the case and has reached out to these people, or is it a story where the advocacy group has reached out to the journalist with a story. We are taking the word of an advocacy group here for the story.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The journalists did some level of diligence, reaching out to El Rapo and the Parish Popo. It's a legit story, unless a media conspiracy?
Do you consume the news at all? Stories like this turn out to be wild fabrications, or hugely misleading all the time. Calling the police up and getting a "we aren't allowed to comment" is hardly corroboration. We are mostly taking the word of one side in a custody dispute and their advocacy group, who lost at the previous custody hearing. The Judge who saw all the evidence thought she was lying. Why would we take her claims on trust?

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Exactly. She needs funds, like right now. Desperate times and all that.
Sure, so does Amber Heard.... that's all the more reason not to take their word for it.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed that there is a bunch of missing info that needs to come out to have an informed opinion. And that needs to start with why he has any rights whatsoever if the rape date is accurate. The whole story hinges on that.
Right, and that was dealt with in court. Presumably it will be argued again next month. We may well never know the details. The fathers claims the court decided she was assisting her daughter have underage sex while using her daughter to make false rape accusations. If that's true, she sounds kind of unhinged. Maybe there is a reason he tried to get custody off her in the first place? Anyway, the court knows the details, and we don't.

If we give cases like this the benefit of the doubt, then our heads will get full of all sorts of nonsense, and we will get a wildly incorrect view of the world. Divorce and custody cases are grubby things, and people lie about them.

Last edited by shuttlt; 16th June 2022 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 16th June 2022, 11:11 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
The creep quotient in this thread is disturbingly high.
You aren't lying there. I'd love to see the conversation with their own 16 year old daughters though.
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Old 16th June 2022, 11:14 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
If we give cases like this the benefit of the doubt, then our heads will get full of all sorts of nonsense, and we will get a wildly incorrect view of the world. Divorce and custody cases are grubby things, and people lie about them.
pfhahahahahahaahah

"WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE....WORLD?!?!?!?!"

Yes, believing a woman got raped by a 30+ year old when she was 16 will certainly cause a downfall of the entire planet.

I'm ******* crying I'm laughing so hard. That's awesome.
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Old 16th June 2022, 11:23 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You aren't lying there. I'd love to see the conversation with their own 16 year old daughters though.
Sweetheart, this is my friend John. We went to college together. If you get drunk and he ***** you, it will probably be your fault.
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Old 16th June 2022, 11:45 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Let he who has never picked up a drunk high school kid 14 years his junior and taken them home to bang, cast the first stone. It just wouldn't do to portray this as anything other than normal upstanding behavior after all.

The guy sounds like a real scumbag, but to be fair, if I was out drinking at a bar with a women being served drinks at the bar, I wouldn't assume she was a 16 year high school student.

Did the bar (or the guy for that matter) card her? Did she have a fake ID or did she just know the bar owner or something?

ETA: I can honestly say that I've never picked a women up in a bar. Is it acknowledged that you should card a pickup if you don't know them? Is that a thing?

Last edited by cmikes; 16th June 2022 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 16th June 2022, 11:46 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by cmikes View Post
The guy sounds like a real scumbag, but to be fair, if I was out drinking at a bar with a women being served drinks at the bar, I wouldn't assume she was a 16 year high school student.

Did the bar (or the guy for that matter) card her? Did she have a fake ID or did she just know the bar owner or something?
Every article I've seen describes it as a restaurant. So probably more like an Applebees than an actual night club or bar.
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Old 16th June 2022, 11:51 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by cmikes View Post
The guy sounds like a real scumbag, but to be fair, if I was out drinking at a bar with a women being served drinks at the bar, I wouldn't assume she was a 16 year high school student.

Did the bar (or the guy for that matter) card her? Did she have a fake ID or did she just know the bar owner or something?

ETA: I can honestly say that I've never picked a women up in a bar. Is it acknowledged that you should card a pickup if you don't know them? Is that a thing?
Quite a few people here seem to think being present at a bar is +/- proof of age.

Did you guys not go to high schools or colleges where underage drinking with fake IDs was a regular thing?
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Old 16th June 2022, 11:55 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Every article I've seen describes it as a restaurant. So probably more like an Applebees than an actual night club or bar.

In the police report that she filed in 2015, she wrote that it was a bar. The photo of that report is in an article I linked earlier.
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Old 16th June 2022, 11:55 AM   #169
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A few notes from WBRZ, who had a hand in bringing everything to light.

Quote:
Less than 24 hours after the WBRZ Investigative Unit aired the story, District Attorney Scott Perrilloux also told WBRZ he is reviewing the case. Prior to today, DA Scott Perrilloux said his office had not received anything on it.
So it looks like the cops have done exactly **** all with the story, as Crysta has claimed. Which is more than likely by design. The DA hasn't received any information, which they should as it's their call to charge or not after the investigation is complete. However, since the cops aren't actually doing anything, or investigating it, then they don't have to pass it along! Brilliant!

To correct myself, the same article refers to them leaving a bar:

Quote:
Abelseth maintains she was raped when she was 16 and came away from that encounter pregnant. It happened after she left a bar with John Barnes, who was 30-years old. She said Barnes agreed to take her home but brought her to his house instead, where she said the rape occurred.
I don't think it really matters all that much. He said he would take her home and then took her to his house and raped her. Whether it was a bar or sea world, it's still rape.

ETA:

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
In the police report that she filed in 2015, she wrote that it was a bar. The photo of that report is in an article I linked earlier.
I corrected myself, either way though it doesn't matter. If he had promised a woman of age a ride home, took her to his house, ****** her on the couch without her consent, and the night went on as it did, it would still be rape.
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Last edited by plague311; 16th June 2022 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 16th June 2022, 12:02 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Quite a few people here seem to think being present at a bar is +/- proof of age.

Did you guys not go to high schools or colleges where underage drinking with fake IDs was a regular thing?
I sure didn't! I went to bars with peers as a young adult, exploring the whole drinking culture for the first time, legally. I also went to a fair number of house parties and nerd conventions (BayCon, several years in a row) where there was plenty of drinking in private rooms, and no real questions asked about ages. But also, these parties never spawned rape allegations, property destruction, or any of the other toxic outcomes we tend to imagine about such things. I dunno if I have incredibly good judgement when it comes to picking friends and social circles, or if I just got really lucky, or if I was just somehow oblivious to the darker side of house parties.

Nowadays I have the income and the free time to embrace my inner barfly. If someone walked into my neighborhood dive, ordered a drink, and satisfied the bartender with their ID, I'd assume they were of age no matter how young they looked. And if I had any interest at all in getting entangled with a goddamn 22 year old, I might go for it. But, I have no game, and no interest in game. The sooner this kid finishes ordering their limeade mimosa or hazy cider or whatever it is kids are drinking these days, and ***** off away from my elbow, the sooner I can get back to my beer and my burger and my book in peace.
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Old 16th June 2022, 12:09 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
If he had promised a woman of age a ride home, took her to his house, ****** her on the couch without her consent, and the night went on as it did, it would still be rape.

I don't think anyone's disputing that, but the fact that she never claimed she was raped until years later in the midst of a custody dispute muddies the waters so much that it's probably impossible to determine the truth at this late date.

IF he actually raped her, he deserves to go to prison for the rest of his life, but with no evidence, he'll probably get away with it, if he did it.

On the other hand, it seems pretty clear they have a slam dunk on the statutory rape charge, especially going by what's been posted in this thread, that Alabama doesn't have a "well, she was drinking in a bar so I didn't know she was underaged" exception.

The only question I have what is the statute of limitations on statutory rape in Alabama, if any?

ETA: Louisiana not Alabama. And a quick google search seems to say that for sex crimes against children, the statute of limitations is thirty years in Louisiana, so a statutory rape charge could still be in play.

Last edited by cmikes; 16th June 2022 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 16th June 2022, 12:17 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by cmikes View Post
I don't think anyone's disputing that, but the fact that she never claimed she was raped until years later in the midst of a custody dispute muddies the waters so much that it's probably impossible to determine the truth at this late date.
Yes, that's what you guys keep saying. Like it's some shock to the system that a woman doesn't report a rape. Until that point she wasn't being bothered by the man, the child was 5 years old and she was unaware she had options because of her ignorance of the law. It took him trying to get this child that brought that knowledge to her in a roundabout way.

You've made up your mind as far as cause and effect and it appears that you think she filed the rape charges because of the custody battle to help her win, not that it took the custody battle to give her the information she needed.

She filed the rape almost a decade ago. I don't know why people are talking like she just did it now. She's been waiting for the cops to do something but they've done nothing. Not even report it to the DA.

Originally Posted by cmikes View Post
IF he actually raped her, he deserves to go to prison for the rest of his life, but with no evidence, he'll probably get away with it, if he did it.
No, he doesn't deserve to go to prison for the rest of his life, but he does deserve to be investigated and go through the process. He hasn't even had to do that. Also, it's not an "IF", so we can drop that ****. She was 16, he was 30, the law says it was rape. Done.

Originally Posted by cmikes View Post
On the other hand, it seems pretty clear they have a slam dunk on the statutory rape charge, especially going by what's been posted in this thread, that Alabama doesn't have a "well, she was drinking in a bar so I didn't know she was underaged" exception.

The only question I have what is the statute of limitations on statutory rape in Alabama, if any?
Asked and answered. According to the person who provided her the information she had 30 years from when she turned 18. She's well within that time frame.
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Last edited by plague311; 16th June 2022 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 16th June 2022, 12:32 PM   #173
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I'm almost starting to buy into the conspiracy freaking theory that the child's birth date is wrong, or somehow in dispute. I mean, the dude took a paternity test. Surely...surely someone did the math on the approximate conception date, and the mother's age? It wasn't a margin call. He had to be proven to be a rapist beyond any reasonable doubt at that point. The 0.03% margin for error is hardly reasonable doubt, especially while he is admitting the child is his and moving for freaking custody.

This tale is either vast criminal conspiracy on the part of the parish, or in-your-face lying on Team Abseleth. Is there any other way this could go down?
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Old 16th June 2022, 12:47 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Sure... but where has the information in the news story come from? Is this a story where a journalist is researching the case and has reached out to these people, or is it a story where the advocacy group has reached out to the journalist with a story. We are taking the word of an advocacy group here for the story.
And you are taking the word of...oh, sorry, that's inaccurate.

You are fabricating words on behalf of someone who has chosen not to speak. And who we know by simple math to have committed a felony in the state of Louisiana, and whom we know has a business relationship with the police department which we know is aware of the felony in question but has not pursued an investigation.

Quote:
Do you consume the news at all? Stories like this turn out to be wild fabrications, or hugely misleading all the time. Calling the police up and getting a "we aren't allowed to comment" is hardly corroboration. We are mostly taking the word of one side in a custody dispute and their advocacy group, who lost at the previous custody hearing. The Judge who saw all the evidence thought she was lying. Why would we take her claims on trust?
Evidence of stories like this turning out to be fabrications all the time? Or even frequently?

And if you are talking he said/she said "date rape" cases, those are not like this at all. The criteria is to find cases where an underage girl has a baby by a significantly older man (proven paternity) where the fact that she was under the age of consent (the only requirement for this to be rape) turns out to be a fabrication.

Also, I'm not aware that the advocacy group represented her in court. My impression is that she went to them after the custody hearing. It is likely that she had no representation. That's quite common.
Quote:


Sure, so does Amber Heard.... that's all the more reason not to take their word for it.


Right, and that was dealt with in court. Presumably it will be argued again next month. We may well never know the details. The fathers claims the court decided she was assisting her daughter have underage sex while using her daughter to make false rape accusations. If that's true, she sounds kind of unhinged. Maybe there is a reason he tried to get custody off her in the first place? Anyway, the court knows the details, and we don't.
Ignoring the Amber Heard crap, which is not even remotely a similar case....and skipping to the highlighted....

Do you have a reference for this? Or did you construct it out of whole cloth? I have seen no statement that the girl was sexting, that the mother was helping her have underage sex, or that her mother has attempted to make a false rape allegation against anyone. (The one rape allegation I'm aware of is demonstrably true by simple math to be statutory rape at a minimum.)

And by the way, what does "helping her have underage sex" mean? Instructing her on birth control? Giving her access to birth control? Those are just, speaking as a parent, good parenting. Or do you think the mom was helping her set up a tinder profile or pimping her out? What exactly do you mean? I mean, you said it, so you must know, right?
Quote:

If we give cases like this the benefit of the doubt, then our heads will get full of all sorts of nonsense, and we will get a wildly incorrect view of the world. Divorce and custody cases are grubby things, and people lie about them.
Look, I've been through a divorce/custody thing. I've also been through parenting. (Two daughters, two stepsons.) This is not a normal case.

We don't have to give anyone benefit of the doubt to determine that there was statutory rape and the father is a felon under Louisiana law, albeit not a convicted one. That's an empirical fact.

I can tell you that her behavior as far as not reporting it is not unusual at all. I've seen it before, first hand. I've even known girls who were forcibly raped who elected not to tell because of people who will call them liars, sluts etc. who always wore provocative clothing (usually clothing typically worn by other girls their age by the way), were flirtatious (pro tip: flirting is not consent), or drunk (another pro tip: if she's too drunk to drive, you should consider her too drunk to consent.)

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the "mistake of age" defense. But not totally. Not on guilt, but maybe on sentencing. Why? Because it moves every case of statutory rape into a he said/she said case. The whole concept of statutory rape is that there is some age below which a person is not mature enough to consent. That's the same reason for age limits for alcohol, by the way. Not mature enough to make good decisions. Different localities have different views on when that is. In Louisiana, the only place that matter in this case, it's 17.
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Old 16th June 2022, 12:50 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'm almost starting to buy into the conspiracy freaking theory that the child's birth date is wrong, or somehow in dispute. I mean, the dude took a paternity test. Surely...surely someone did the math on the approximate conception date, and the mother's age? It wasn't a margin call. He had to be proven to be a rapist beyond any reasonable doubt at that point. The 0.03% margin for error is hardly reasonable doubt, especially while he is admitting the child is his and moving for freaking custody.

This tale is either vast criminal conspiracy on the part of the parish, or in-your-face lying on Team Abseleth. Is there any other way this could go down?
That is my take. If there really is a conspiracy where this guy drugged and raped the mother, gained custody of the daughter and drugged and raped her.... and there is, as she claims, evidence supporting this.... then it feels like it wouldn't sit as a local thing for long. Particularly now advocacy groups, and activist law firms are involved. This should turn in to some huge scandal that there isn't any question about. If it doesn't, the question would be why...
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Old 16th June 2022, 12:54 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by cmikes View Post
The guy sounds like a real scumbag, but to be fair, if I was out drinking at a bar with a women being served drinks at the bar, I wouldn't assume she was a 16 year high school student.

Did the bar (or the guy for that matter) card her? Did she have a fake ID or did she just know the bar owner or something?

ETA: I can honestly say that I've never picked a women up in a bar. Is it acknowledged that you should card a pickup if you don't know them? Is that a thing?
Underage kids drinking at bars is a thing that exists, and it probably happens a lot. Grown men looking to **** young-looking women they meet at bars, consider yourselves warned.

No matter how much anyone wants to spin this to make it seem like this grown man didn't know he was having sex with a 16 year-old, it does not matter in the eyes of the law. He's still a rapist.
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Old 16th June 2022, 12:55 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'm almost starting to buy into the conspiracy freaking theory that the child's birth date is wrong, or somehow in dispute. I mean, the dude took a paternity test. Surely...surely someone did the math on the approximate conception date, and the mother's age? It wasn't a margin call. He had to be proven to be a rapist beyond any reasonable doubt at that point. The 0.03% margin for error is hardly reasonable doubt, especially while he is admitting the child is his and moving for freaking custody.

This tale is either vast criminal conspiracy on the part of the parish, or in-your-face lying on Team Abseleth. Is there any other way this could go down?
It's a small, Southern town. The only thing surprising about this story is that the age of consent in Louisiana is as high as it is.
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Old 16th June 2022, 12:56 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by cmikes View Post
I don't think anyone's disputing that, but the fact that she never claimed she was raped until years later in the midst of a custody dispute muddies the waters so much that it's probably impossible to determine the truth at this late date.
As I've pointed out before, the behavior of some posters on this thread exemplify why a woman...and moreso, a teenage girl...would not want to report a rape.
Quote:
IF he actually raped her, he deserves to go to prison for the rest of his life, but with no evidence, he'll probably get away with it, if he did it.
And that's the other issue. Very few rapes like the one described are going to have direct evidence. When it comes to the he/said she said aspect of it, generally the woman is hit harder socially than the man that is accused.
Quote:

On the other hand, it seems pretty clear they have a slam dunk on the statutory rape charge, especially going by what's been posted in this thread, that Alabama doesn't have a "well, she was drinking in a bar so I didn't know she was underaged" exception.

The only question I have what is the statute of limitations on statutory rape in Alabama, if any?

ETA: Louisiana not Alabama. And a quick google search seems to say that for sex crimes against children, the statute of limitations is thirty years in Louisiana, so a statutory rape charge could still be in play.
It is still in play. Which is why there is no excuse for the police not acting on it when they found out about it seven years ago.

Last edited by Darat; 17th June 2022 at 02:44 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tag
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Old 16th June 2022, 12:56 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
That is my take. If there really is a conspiracy where this guy drugged and raped the mother, gained custody of the daughter and drugged and raped her.... and there is, as she claims, evidence supporting this.... then it feels like it wouldn't sit as a local thing for long. Particularly now advocacy groups, and activist law firms are involved. This should turn in to some huge scandal that there isn't any question about. If it doesn't, the question would be why...
For the record, are you denying that she was underage when he had sex with her?
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Old 16th June 2022, 12:58 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
That is my take. If there really is a conspiracy where this guy drugged and raped the mother, gained custody of the daughter and drugged and raped her.... and there is, as she claims, evidence supporting this.... then it feels like it wouldn't sit as a local thing for long. Particularly now advocacy groups, and activist law firms are involved. This should turn in to some huge scandal that there isn't any question about. If it doesn't, the question would be why...
Do you have a link to this claim? I haven't seen accusations of drugging or raping the mother. Just taking advantage of her as a drunk teen sixteen years ago. (Which is a felony.)

Nor have I seen claims of drugging and raping the daughter. Where are you guys seeing this? It's like a conspiracy theory that keeps growing.
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Old 16th June 2022, 01:01 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
That is my take. If there really is a conspiracy where this guy drugged and raped the mother, gained custody of the daughter and drugged and raped her.... and there is, as she claims, evidence supporting this.... then it feels like it wouldn't sit as a local thing for long. Particularly now advocacy groups, and activist law firms are involved. This should turn in to some huge scandal that there isn't any question about. If it doesn't, the question would be why...
And by the way, for advocacy groups to take up the cause, which they should, they have to know about it. A teenage girl in a small town who tries to keep her head down to avoid the typical victim blaming is not going to be known to the groups until something happens to where she feels she needs to break her silence.
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Old 16th June 2022, 01:27 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by TomB View Post
And by the way, for advocacy groups to take up the cause, which they should, they have to know about it. A teenage girl in a small town who tries to keep her head down to avoid the typical victim blaming is not going to be known to the groups until something happens to where she feels she needs to break her silence.
Damned good point regarding the prolonged silence.

Back on the ID thing: did none of you guys use the Car Rule? If she wasn't driving a car, she was likely below the line? That might not work in an urban area, where you can get by without a set of wheels, but I vaguely remember that as being a good standby for whether they were over or under 17 in my neck o' the woods when younger.
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Last edited by Thermal; 16th June 2022 at 02:05 PM. Reason: no, autocorrect, "goid" is not a ******* word
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Old 16th June 2022, 02:47 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by TomB View Post
And you are taking the word of...oh, sorry, that's inaccurate.
Indeed it is inaccurate. I am not taking anybody's word for it. He could be lying. She could be lying.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
You are fabricating words on behalf of someone who has chosen not to speak. And who we know by simple math to have committed a felony in the state of Louisiana, and whom we know has a business relationship with the police department which we know is aware of the felony in question but has not pursued an investigation.
We do not know this stuff. We know that if a number of things are true, then he was guilty of statutory rape. We do not in fact know that these things are true. Presumably the court that gave him custody has access to this information? We do not know what the polices reasoning for not pursuing the case further, presumably the court has access to this information. He has spoken a little, as per the Daily Mail article. I'm not sure that, with an ongoing court case, attempting to move the venue to the media is necessarily a reliable indicator of having a strong case.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Evidence of stories like this turning out to be fabrications all the time? Or even frequently?
Well, the most recent was Amber Heard. There are few enough active threads left on this forum, and that is one. If at this point, you think the media is reliable, then that's not something I'm going to be able to talk you out of and we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
And if you are talking he said/she said "date rape" cases, those are not like this at all. The criteria is to find cases where an underage girl has a baby by a significantly older man (proven paternity) where the fact that she was under the age of consent (the only requirement for this to be rape) turns out to be a fabrication.
There are unique things in every case so you can say, "sure but find me an example exactly like this". People lie about all sorts of easily disprovable ********. One doesn't have to evidence every single flavour of ******** to make the general point. Beyond that, she is claiming an awful lot more than that he had sex with her a few months before it was legal. It could be that she is a worse person to have custody than he is. We don't know. It's at least worth considering that there may be something seriously not right about this woman.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Also, I'm not aware that the advocacy group represented her in court. My impression is that she went to them after the custody hearing. It is likely that she had no representation. That's quite common.
It could be. They are representing her now.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Ignoring the Amber Heard crap, which is not even remotely a similar case....and skipping to the highlighted....
Of course it's relevant.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Do you have a reference for this? Or did you construct it out of whole cloth? I have seen no statement that the girl was sexting, that the mother was helping her have underage sex, or that her mother has attempted to make a false rape allegation against anyone. (The one rape allegation I'm aware of is demonstrably true by simple math to be statutory rape at a minimum.)
That's because you haven't spent two seconds looking into the case you are holding forth on and are relying entirely on the account produced by the advocacy group. It was in the Daily Mail article.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
And by the way, what does "helping her have underage sex" mean? Instructing her on birth control? Giving her access to birth control? Those are just, speaking as a parent, good parenting. Or do you think the mom was helping her set up a tinder profile or pimping her out? What exactly do you mean? I mean, you said it, so you must know, right?
Giving her a phone so she could sext and hook up with her boyfriend. The woman who is complaining about being statutorily raped is, according to the father, assisting his daughter to go and have underage sex and send sexually explicit TikToks. Maybe all of that isn't true? I don't know.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Look, I've been through a divorce/custody thing. I've also been through parenting. (Two daughters, two stepsons.) This is not a normal case.
Certainly it's not normal. I grant you that.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
We don't have to give anyone benefit of the doubt to determine that there was statutory rape and the father is a felon under Louisiana law, albeit not a convicted one. That's an empirical fact.
It may be an empirically knowable fact, but we don't have enough information to confirm it. I have not seen his date of birth, her date of birth, the estimated date that this child was conceived, or confirmation that the conception happened in Louisiana. What we have is a claim.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
I can tell you that her behavior as far as not reporting it is not unusual at all. I've seen it before, first hand. I've even known girls who were forcibly raped who elected not to tell because of people who will call them liars, sluts etc. who always wore provocative clothing (usually clothing typically worn by other girls their age by the way), were flirtatious (pro tip: flirting is not consent), or drunk (another pro tip: if she's too drunk to drive, you should consider her too drunk to consent.)
Sure. And some people are liars and sluts. We should be sceptical when we are dealing with one persons account that, if true, would require a number of other people to be acting unreasonably. Their claim could be true, but we are sceptics and don't just believe things because they appeal to our politics.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
I'm somewhat sympathetic to the "mistake of age" defense. But not totally. Not on guilt, but maybe on sentencing. Why? Because it moves every case of statutory rape into a he said/she said case. The whole concept of statutory rape is that there is some age below which a person is not mature enough to consent. That's the same reason for age limits for alcohol, by the way. Not mature enough to make good decisions. Different localities have different views on when that is. In Louisiana, the only place that matter in this case, it's 17.
Sure. Was she below 17 when it happened? Did it happen in Louisiana? Is that in fact the only factor at play given that she lost custody? Maybe that is all there is to it, and the judgement was very unreasonable? Maybe the worst thing she's done here isn't innocently buying her daughter a phone? She's hardly likely to tell us.

Last edited by shuttlt; 16th June 2022 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 16th June 2022, 02:55 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by TomB View Post
police department which we know is aware of the felony in question but has not pursued an investigation.
Wait, how do we know this? Simply because they haven't published the result you find desirable based on the very little you've learned about this case so far from third parties?
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Old 16th June 2022, 02:58 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by TomB View Post
IF he actually raped her, he deserves to go to prison for the rest of his life
Ten years maximum, for felony statutory rape in Louisiana.

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.co...-rape-laws.htm
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Old 16th June 2022, 03:02 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Do you have a link to this claim? I haven't seen accusations of drugging or raping the mother. Just taking advantage of her as a drunk teen sixteen years ago. (Which is a felony.)

Nor have I seen claims of drugging and raping the daughter. Where are you guys seeing this? It's like a conspiracy theory that keeps growing.
The story was in the Mail. The reason you haven't seen these claims is because you haven't looked into the case and are relying on the summary from a social justice forum. You can not rely on this forum to accurately summarise these things any more than you can rely on this woman's advocacy group or some random journalist. I don't claim the Mail is the unalterable word of God either, but there are quotes in there that aren't in the article linked in the OP. Given how much was left out of the original article, how much more are we missing? Who knows!
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Old 16th June 2022, 03:08 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
The story was in the Mail. The reason you haven't seen these claims is because you haven't looked into the case and are relying on the summary from a social justice forum. You can not rely on this forum to accurately summarise these things any more than you can rely on this woman's advocacy group or some random journalist. I don't claim the Mail is the unalterable word of God either, but there are quotes in there that aren't in the article linked in the OP. Given how much was left out of the original article, how much more are we missing? Who knows!
Im not seeing it, searching the Mail Online site searching both her name and Louisiana?
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Old 16th June 2022, 03:14 PM   #188
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I've got her birthday, and the date of the alleged incident - 16 yrs, 4 m, & 9 d

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/06...5295937293.jpg

This statement looks to have been made on 1st July 2015, several years after joint custody was awarded.

So the timeline is December 13th 2005 the rape occurs. Then October 3rd 2011, he gets joint custody. The child would have to be about 5 then. She makes the allegation of rape 3 years and 8 months later, so the child would be nearly 9.

This is where my math starts to produce odd results. So, the rape was on December 13th 2005. That was 16 Years, 6 Months, 3 Days Ago. So the child has got to be 15, right? The Mail, and the Independent have the daughter aged 16. So we have multiple newspapers making basic errors of fact.

She supposedly lost custody of her daughter on March 20th, but Fox have the advocacy group getting involved in the case 8 months ago, so they were involved then.

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Old 16th June 2022, 03:17 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Ten years maximum, for felony statutory rape in Louisiana.

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.co...-rape-laws.htm

To be fair to TomB, the call for life in prison was me, he messed up the quote tags when replying to my post.

And I was responding to the allegation of forcible rape, not statutory rape. I have no problem with a sentence of life in prison for forcible rape of an underage person. Actually, ten years seems kind of low for a maximum even for statutory rape to me.
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Old 16th June 2022, 03:19 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I probably wouldn't be as bothered by it if it were consensual either. It doesn't appear it was.
She had how many years to cook up the story of forcible rape? Matter of fact, she changed her story from "my unnamed boy friend had consensual sex" to "Therapist forced me "? Bad evidence.

I do wish we know more about her mothering skills. Stupid girl didn't know about rape laws? I bet her household has a book. One. And Dad didn't want her to have a phone? Can you say Fundy? I bet his house has wheels under it too. And the car in the yard doesn't.
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Old 16th June 2022, 03:38 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, here's what we've got:


1) At best, a statutory rape conviction for consensual sex that would have been acceptable in 31 states and most of the western world.
Struck out the irrelevant bits

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
2) Violation of a custody agreement, leading to the father rapist getting custody.
The first thing should never have been allowed to happen, which would have ruled out the second thing happening. That they did is ******* outrageous.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
3) Support for the notion that even if a guy takes reasonable precaution to verify age, and a 16-year-old admits to going to lengths to misrepresent her age, he should burn in hell as a "rapist".
That is absolutely 100% where I stand, and I make no apologies for it.

If you are 32 and trawling for teenagers to ****, you ought to be ashamed of yourself - you are walking the very edge of a cliff. That edge might seem perfectly stable, but if it gives way and you fall, you only have yourself to blame.
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Old 16th June 2022, 03:40 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Im not seeing it, searching the Mail Online site searching both her name and Louisiana?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-contact.html
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Old 16th June 2022, 03:51 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
She had how many years to cook up the story of forcible rape? Matter of fact, she changed her story from "my unnamed boy friend had consensual sex" to "Therapist forced me "? Bad evidence.

I do wish we know more about her mothering skills. Stupid girl didn't know about rape laws? I bet her household has a book. One. And Dad didn't want her to have a phone? Can you say Fundy? I bet his house has wheels under it too. And the car in the yard doesn't.

The reason the father didn't want her having a cell phone is that she was using it to sext her boyfriend and he didn't want her nude pictures to end up on the internet. This is his version of the story, so take it for what it's worth, which to my mind is very little.

Assuming the story is true, though, it's hard to fault him. If my 16 year old was sending nude pictures of herself to other people, I would have taken away her phone also.
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Old 16th June 2022, 03:55 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I've got her birthday, and the date of the alleged incident - 16 yrs, 4 m, & 9 d

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/06...5295937293.jpg

This statement looks to have been made on 1st July 2015, several years after joint custody was awarded.

So the timeline is December 13th 2005 the rape occurs. Then October 3rd 2011, he gets joint custody. The child would have to be about 5 then. She makes the allegation of rape 3 years and 8 months later, so the child would be nearly 9.

This is where my math starts to produce odd results. So, the rape was on December 13th 2005. That was 16 Years, 6 Months, 3 Days Ago. So the child has got to be 15, right? The Mail, and the Independent have the daughter aged 16. So we have multiple newspapers making basic errors of fact.
You'd have to know the birth date of the child for your math to have any meaning.
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Old 16th June 2022, 03:56 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I've got her birthday, and the date of the alleged incident - 16 yrs, 4 m, & 9 d

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/06...5295937293.jpg

This statement looks to have been made on 1st July 2015, several years after joint custody was awarded.

So the timeline is December 13th 2005 the rape occurs. Then October 3rd 2011, he gets joint custody. The child would have to be about 5 then. She makes the allegation of rape 3 years and 8 months later, so the child would be nearly 9.

This is where my math starts to produce odd results. So, the rape was on December 13th 2005. That was 16 Years, 6 Months, 3 Days Ago. So the child has got to be 15, right? The Mail, and the Independent have the daughter aged 16. So we have multiple newspapers making basic errors of fact.

She supposedly lost custody of her daughter on March 20th, but Fox have the advocacy group getting involved in the case 8 months ago, so they were involved then.
Eh. I'm pretty sure newspapers make trivial errors of fact all the time.

When I was 4, I almost drowned in a neighbor's swimming pool. The neighbor's son, 5 and half, helped me out. Made the local news. The article in the paper the next day was wrong about my name, my age, and my relation to the neighbors.
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Old 16th June 2022, 03:57 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Struck out the irrelevant bits



The first thing should never have been allowed to happen, which would have ruled out the second thing happening. That they did is ******* outrageous.



That is absolutely 100% where I stand, and I make no apologies for it.

If you are 32 and trawling for teenagers to ****, you ought to be ashamed of yourself - you are walking the very edge of a cliff. That edge might seem perfectly stable, but if it gives way and you fall, you only have yourself to blame.
Why should statutory rape between consenting participants be an automatic disqualifier for the father getting custody?
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Old 16th June 2022, 04:00 PM   #197
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Quote:
'Minor child contacted me (her mother) on February 23, 2022 with the suspicion that her father had drugged and sexually assaulted her two nights in a row,' the court documents state.

Abelseth stated that the Children's Hospital of New Orleans confirmed 'evidence of forced entry congruent with sexual assault'.

In the papers, she states: 'My daughter, minor child, was conceived as the product of the defendant raping me when I was a minor child of 16 years of age.

'I suspect drugs were used by him to sedate me as I was unable to move while he raped me.

'Now it is alleged that he has committed the same heinous crime on our 15-year-old daughter.'

On March 18, the allegations were dismissed by the court, which found that 'medical evidence does not support allegations in petition'.

On March 20, she lost custody of her daughter, and has been forced to pay Barnes, 46, child support: furthermore, she says that Barnes is blocking their court-mandated daily phone calls.

Starting to sound kinda (more) iffy with the claims of the mother, tbh. Or else the conspiracy is getting even wider.
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Old 16th June 2022, 04:02 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by cmikes View Post
The reason the father didn't want her having a cell phone is that she was using it to sext her boyfriend and he didn't want her nude pictures to end up on the internet. This is his version of the story, so take it for what it's worth, which to my mind is very little.

Assuming the story is true, though, it's hard to fault him. If my 16 year old was sending nude pictures of herself to other people, I would have taken away her phone also.
The rapist of a 16 year-old girl worried about his 16 year-old daughter sexually exploiting herself is a special kind of irony.

Last edited by johnny karate; 16th June 2022 at 04:07 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 16th June 2022, 04:10 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why should statutory rape between consenting participants be an automatic disqualifier for the father getting custody?
Let me rephrase the question and see if it will help you with the answer:

Why should being a sex criminal be an automatic disqualifier for the father getting custody?
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Old 16th June 2022, 04:12 PM   #200
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So all of a sudden he's opposed to 16-year-old girls having sex?

Well, I suppose we should be glad he's matured since he was 30.
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