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Old 8th July 2022, 09:12 PM   #201
Trebuchet
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Nothing will happen to Trump. No charges, no convictions. Too dangerous.

And it will embolden the GoP
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The pessimist in me says you're probably right.

The optimist has a tiny little glimmer of hope...since in some cases, prosecutions may be carried out by individuals who are less concerned with optics/safety.

Ok, I can imagine Garland might be hesitant to charge Stubby McBonespurs based on dubious excuses. (Oh know! Bad optics to charge an ex-president! He has immunity! The GOP might retaliate! etc.) But someone like Fulton County DA Fani Willis (investigating Trump for election shenanigans) doesn't have to worry about how things look on the national stage, nor about how republicans might try to charge Democrats, since she's not a national political figure. And Leticia James doesn't seem to be backing down (although admittedly her case is civil rather than criminal).
And about three minutes after the TOP Senate confirms Trump's new AG on Jan 21, 2025, he'll be issuing indictments against Biden, Obama, and, of course, Hillary.
And I'm not being sarcastic, I actually expect that.
We're screwed.
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Old 8th July 2022, 09:33 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Ford got the presidency because he was VP. Nixon was going to be impeached anyway. Nixon had the support of what, 4 senators (at least according to the Goldwater conversation) ?
I'm confused, are you unaware that Spiro Agnew was the VP when Nixon was about to resign?
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Old 8th July 2022, 09:46 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm confused, are you unaware that Spiro Agnew was the VP when Nixon was about to resign?
Spiro Agnew had been forced to resign months earlier in a unrelated scandal. Ford was appointed his replacement.
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Old 8th July 2022, 09:50 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm confused, are you unaware that Spiro Agnew was the VP when Nixon was about to resign?
Nixon was nowhere near about to resign when Agnew was VP.
Agnew was forced to resign in October '73; Nixon held out until August '74. About 10 months.
That said, I'm pretty sure that there was no pre-arranged deal that Ford would pardon Nixon in exchange for being appointed Veep.
Ford's stated reason for the pardon was to put the matter to an end and not drag the country through more years of accusations and a trial. I don't think he was wrong.

ETA: Nuts, Pacal ninja'd me while I was looking up dates!
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Old 8th July 2022, 10:08 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm confused, are you unaware that Spiro Agnew was the VP when Nixon was about to resign?
Agnew resigned as VP on Oct. 10, 1973, the same day he pleaded guilty to criminal charges. Ford was confirmed as VP Dec. 6. Nixon didn't resign until Aug. 9, 1974, when Ford became President.
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Old 9th July 2022, 12:29 AM   #206
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Well fudge, that's the 3rd or 4th time my memory from that era has failed.
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Old 9th July 2022, 01:37 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Well fudge, that's the 3rd or 4th time my memory from that era has failed.
That's cuz you were not more than a wee babe then, right?

(take the lifeline I'm throwin' ya here)
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Old 9th July 2022, 03:49 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The pessimist in me says you're probably right.

The optimist has a tiny little glimmer of hope...since in some cases, prosecutions may be carried out by individuals who are less concerned with optics/safety.

Ok, I can imagine Garland might be hesitant to charge Stubby McBonespurs based on dubious excuses. (Oh know! Bad optics to charge an ex-president! He has immunity! The GOP might retaliate! etc.) But someone like Fulton County DA Fani Willis (investigating Trump for election shenanigans) doesn't have to worry about how things look on the national stage, nor about how republicans might try to charge Democrats, since she's not a national political figure. And Leticia James doesn't seem to be backing down (although admittedly her case is civil rather than criminal).
I'll believe it when the cuffs come out. Until then I've seen zilch to think that anything is going to come of this but some good television. The little folks are going to wait on Garland, Garland is going to sit on his hands to preserve the sacred impartiality of the justice department, then no one is going to have the timing and authority to step up in his place. Just like with Mueller.
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Old 9th July 2022, 04:03 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Well fudge, that's the 3rd or 4th time my memory from that era has failed.
Those are better stats than mine.
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Old 9th July 2022, 05:24 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm confused, are you unaware that Spiro Agnew was the VP when Nixon was about to resign?
I'm very aware. I guess it depends on what you mean by "about to resign".

Agnew resigned on October 10, 1973.
Ford sworn in on December 6, 1973.
Nixon resigned on August 9, 1974.

So no, I don't consider the end of Agnew's time in office when Nixon was about to resign.

ETA: Sorry - Ninja'ed by multiple other people.
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Old 9th July 2022, 06:42 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Well fudge, that's the 3rd or 4th time my memory from that era has failed.
Well, 3rd or 4th time that you can recall.
That’s the problem with relying on your memory to determine how reliable your memory is.
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Old 9th July 2022, 08:06 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Agnew resigned as VP on Oct. 10, 1973, the same day he pleaded guilty to criminal charges. Ford was confirmed as VP Dec. 6. Nixon didn't resign until Aug. 9, 1974, when Ford became President.
Apologies for somewhat OT comment

Rachel Maddow wrote a book called Bag Man about the crisis posed by the possibility a wildly corrupt Agnew might succeed Nixon. Investigators had damning evidence of Agnew's corruption but this wasnít widely known at the time Watergate was unfolding. I found the intrigue surrounding efforts to prevent Agnew succeeding Nixon fascinating. I didnít read the book but instead listened to a podcast series by the same name.

First episode https://youtu.be/qXpfCpZ6CdM also available from the usual podcast sources
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Old 9th July 2022, 04:50 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
Apologies for somewhat OT comment

Rachel Maddow wrote a book called Bag Man about the crisis posed by the possibility a wildly corrupt Agnew might succeed Nixon. Investigators had damning evidence of Agnew's corruption but this wasnít widely known at the time Watergate was unfolding. I found the intrigue surrounding efforts to prevent Agnew succeeding Nixon fascinating. I didnít read the book but instead listened to a podcast series by the same name.

First episode https://youtu.be/qXpfCpZ6CdM also available from the usual podcast sources
I also listened to all seven episodes of her Bag Man podcast. It was excellent. For all the criticism Rachel cops from the right, she is a master explainer, and great storyteller.
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Old 9th July 2022, 06:36 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That's cuz you were not more than a wee babe then, right?

(take the lifeline I'm throwin' ya here)
I graduated from high school in 1971 and I was politically active. It's just that I have so many memories some of them are mixed up.
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Old 9th July 2022, 11:23 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I graduated from high school in 1971 and I was politically active. It's just that I have so many memories some of them are mixed up.
You were a year ahead of me. I think. I can't remember. Where are we?
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Old 9th July 2022, 11:53 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You were a year ahead of me. I think. I can't remember. Where are we?
I graduated a year early. Or was it a half year? I get confused but I know it was early.
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Old 9th July 2022, 11:57 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I graduated a year early. Or was it a half year? I get confused but I know it was early.
Meh, babies. I finished high school in 1968 (a year early at 17).
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Old 10th July 2022, 12:51 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I graduated a year early. Or was it a half year? I get confused but I know it was early.
Ah...got expelled, heh?

I could have graduated a semester early as I didn't need any more credits. It was a tough last semester..not: Spanish 4, French 2, and walking across the street to the elementary school to do teacher assisting for 2 hours. Out at noon. Rough.
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Old 10th July 2022, 04:48 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Ah...got expelled, heh?

I could have graduated a semester early as I didn't need any more credits. It was a tough last semester..not: Spanish 4, French 2, and walking across the street to the elementary school to do teacher assisting for 2 hours. Out at noon. Rough.
I could have graduated early, but then I'd have never made Honor Roll, which I did the last half of my Senior year.
Of course the classes I had were Art, Commercial Art, and Stage Craft, so all were pretty easy A's.
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Old 10th July 2022, 07:09 AM   #220
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Any Information on this?
Are these claims real?
http://youtu.be/_qzRGRiF2f0

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/oath-keeper...rxGV6koMmq786z

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Old 10th July 2022, 10:20 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post

Yes, it's true according to several sources including Politico.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...jan-6-00044845
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Old 10th July 2022, 10:42 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
It's not the first I've heard of it.
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Old 10th July 2022, 10:43 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's not the first I've heard of it.
Politico is reliable.
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Old 10th July 2022, 03:25 PM   #224
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Looks like Steve Bannon is going to testify in front of the J6C after all. Apparently, he claims Trump has given him 'permission' to waive his claim of executive privilege which has been his 'reason' for ignoring the J6C subpoena. He is scheduled to go on trial for that later this month. Trouble is, he had no such privilege as he did not work for Trump as "all the efforts to overturn the 2020 election results and the events of January 6 occurred when Bannon was a private citizen." Some legal experts are skeptical:

Quote:
"I smell a gimmick to provide a last-ditch defense in Bannon's criminal case and poison the well in the Jan 6 investigation. It's the perfect two-fer!" Barb McQuade, a law professor at the University of Michigan, wrote on Twitter, retweeting a post that included the letter from Trump, and the other that was addressed to the committee.

"Bannon wants his own special treatment from the January 6 committee—going straight to a public hearing where he can grandstand and refuse to answer questions," Tristan Snell, a lawyer and the founder of Main Street law firm, wrote in a tweet. "Wrong. He must be treated as any other witness: private hearing first to determine if he's truly cooperative."

Glenn Kirschner, a former federal prosecutor, told MSNBC's The Sunday Show that he believed Bannon's decision was a "ploy" to help his defense against the contempt of Congress charges.

"This whole thing feels like a ploy," Kirschner assessed. "Why? Because he's going to claim, 'Oh well, look, now I have dispensation. I have a waiver from Donald Trump. That's why I couldn't testify previously. That's why I have a legal defense to the contempt of Congress charge.'"

Kirschner dismissed the letters as "nonsense" and a "charade."

"Given Bannon's clear statements over time that he wants to burn all of government down there is no reason to treat this like a good faith offer. As with all other witnesses, he should have to speak privately with the committee, under oath, first to test his truthfulness," she wrote. "The Cmte can't evaluate whether Bannon has anything to offer that is worth consuming limited hearing time until they speak with him. Questioners need to consider whether his testimony is relevant, new (or just cumulative) & test his credibility. Doesn't deserve any favors."

In a follow-up post on Sunday, McQuade contended that the January 6 committee should reject Bannon's offer.

"J6C should tell him too late, let DOJ convict him at trial for contempt, and then DOJ can compel his testimony. Statute provides immunity from using his own statements against him, but that's not giving up much. He can still be prosecuted for his role in scheme," she wrote.
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Old 10th July 2022, 04:08 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
.....
Rachel Maddow wrote a book called Bag Man about the crisis posed by the possibility a wildly corrupt Agnew might succeed Nixon. Investigators had damning evidence of Agnew's corruption but this wasnít widely known at the time Watergate was unfolding. I found the intrigue surrounding efforts to prevent Agnew succeeding Nixon fascinating. I didnít read the book but instead listened to a podcast series by the same name.
.....
If I recall, some people considered Agnew Nixon's impeachment insurance: They thought nobody would impeach Nixon if it meant Agnew would become President.
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Old 10th July 2022, 04:12 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Looks like Steve Bannon is going to testify in front of the J6C after all. Apparently, he claims Trump has given him 'permission' to waive his claim of executive privilege which has been his 'reason' for ignoring the J6C subpoena. He is scheduled to go on trial for that later this month. Trouble is, he had no such privilege as he did not work for Trump as "all the efforts to overturn the 2020 election results and the events of January 6 occurred when Bannon was a private citizen." Some legal experts are skeptical:
He belongs in a hundred foot deep pit with poisonous vipers and spiders.
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Old 10th July 2022, 04:28 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm confused, are you unaware that Spiro Agnew was the VP when Nixon was about to resign?
Agnew resigned in October of 1973; Nixon resigned in August of 1975. Just a couple months short of a Year;s difference.
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Old 10th July 2022, 04:48 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Looks like Steve Bannon is going to testify in front of the J6C after all. Apparently, he claims Trump has given him 'permission' to waive his claim of executive privilege which has been his 'reason' for ignoring the J6C subpoena. He is scheduled to go on trial for that later this month. Trouble is, he had no such privilege as he did not work for Trump as "all the efforts to overturn the 2020 election results and the events of January 6 occurred when Bannon was a private citizen." Some legal experts are skeptical:
I agree with Kirscher's assessment. Letting Bannon go straight to a public hearing? Laughable.
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Old 10th July 2022, 05:02 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
I agree with Kirscher's assessment. Letting Bannon go straight to a public hearing? Laughable.
Tristan Snell said the same thing. And I agree. But, I'm not a lawyer. I only play one on ISF.
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Old 10th July 2022, 05:11 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yes, it's true according to several sources including Politico.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...jan-6-00044845
Thank you that's what I thought, want to bet this isn't the first time the Waco Whackos, Oath Keepers have done this hit list thing?
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Old 10th July 2022, 05:42 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Tristan Snell said the same thing. And I agree. But, I'm not a lawyer. I only play one on ISF.
I dunno...could be a ploy. But neither 45 nor Bannon are the brightest lights, he could just be stupid enough to think that he can successfully spout alternative facts, or maybe Trump thinks Bannon will be uber loyal when it's more likey that Bannon is as loyal to T as T is to him. Should be interesting!
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Old 10th July 2022, 06:57 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by stanfr View Post
I dunno...could be a ploy. But neither 45 nor Bannon are the brightest lights, he could just be stupid enough to think that he can successfully spout alternative facts, or maybe Trump thinks Bannon will be uber loyal when it's more likey that Bannon is as loyal to T as T is to him. Should be interesting!
It is a ploy; that's what they're saying.
No way will the J6C allow him in front of a mic in a public hearing before they get him under oath in a videotaped interview first. If he pulls the "5th" there like Flynn did, he won't be given a public hearing. And if he actually does give answers under oath, they'll have the recording if he tries to pull any crap during the public hearing.
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Old 10th July 2022, 07:08 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
If I recall, some people considered Agnew Nixon's impeachment insurance: They thought nobody would impeach Nixon if it meant Agnew would become President.

That's interesting , a poison-pill vice president
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Old 10th July 2022, 08:00 PM   #234
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A contempt of Congress charge is not that scary.
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Old 10th July 2022, 08:55 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
That's interesting , a poison-pill vice president
A more recent example was Dan Quayle. There were people calling him Bush I's best protection against assassination. I don't think anyone outside Quayle's immediate family would have voted for him had Bush I won and completed a second term.
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Old 11th July 2022, 05:29 AM   #236
Crazy Chainsaw
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's not the first I've heard of it.
Just goes to show the Oath Keepers were always a Libertarian Constitutionalist Terrorist organization, that was ment to Promote Libertarian Constitutionalist Ideas through Violence and Intimidating Critics.
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Old 11th July 2022, 05:41 AM   #237
Armitage72
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
A more recent example was Dan Quayle. There were people calling him Bush I's best protection against assassination. I don't think anyone outside Quayle's immediate family would have voted for him had Bush I won and completed a second term.

A standup comedian once joked that the Secret Service had orders to shoot Dan Qayle if Bush were ever shot.
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Old 11th July 2022, 11:30 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by stanfr View Post
As powerful and damning as Hutchinson's testimony was, much of it was hearsay and it would be relatively harmless in a criminal case. That concerns me, they really need someone like Cipollone to come to the plate.

For example (one of many) CNN and other MM outlets are headlining things like "Trump said Mike Pence deserved to be hung!"

Very outrageous and incriminating, if it were true. Of course, it is patently false.
Hutchinson testified that Cippolone said "He thinks Mike deserves it"
Not only is this classic hearsay (inadmissible evidence) but it is not even Trump saying "Pence deserves to be hung" it is simply Cipollone's *interpretation* of what Trump *thinks*
Not at all what was reported by CNN and others.
Useless evidence.
And a lot of the other testimony was hearsay too, that was just the best example of it.

They need a Meadows or Eastman or someone closer to turn.
Over a year and still no smoking gun that Trump incited the riot. The riot was wrong but it's being overblown compared to the riots that took place after George Floyd, including the summer of love in Seattle.

The committee will never subpoena the secret service agents that were in the car with Trump because they want to take Hutchinson's word at face value.

The committee also heard testimony from at least a few people who were with Trump, including a DOD staffer named Kash Patel who testified that Trump authorized up to 20,000 troops from the national guard to prevent any problems. and this was before January 6th. The committee of course never aired this testimony.

Nor did the committee show the written letter from the DC mayor declining the troops offered by Trump. Nor did the committee interview Pelosi or the DC Mayor who were declared off limits by the committee.

Liz "toast" Cheney also mentioned that there was intel of possible violence prior to January 6th but the committee never interviewed the security personnel and those in charge of them.
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Old 11th July 2022, 11:44 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Over a year and still no smoking gun that Trump incited the riot. The riot was wrong but it's being overblown compared to the riots that took place after George Floyd, including the summer of love in Seattle.

The committee will never subpoena the secret service agents that were in the car with Trump because they want to take Hutchinson's word at face value.

The committee also heard testimony from at least a few people who were with Trump, including a DOD staffer named Kash Patel who testified that Trump authorized up to 20,000 troops from the national guard to prevent any problems. and this was before January 6th. The committee of course never aired this testimony.

Nor did the committee show the written letter from the DC mayor declining the troops offered by Trump. Nor did the committee interview Pelosi or the DC Mayor who were declared off limits by the committee.

Liz "toast" Cheney also mentioned that there was intel of possible violence prior to January 6th but the committee never interviewed the security personnel and those in charge of them.
You haven't even heard all the evidence.

Besides for most of us, we understand Drumpf tried to subvert the votes in a number of states. Georgia has him on tape doing just that.

And you are complaining he didn't direct the storming of the Capitol? Just how do you think he was going to deal with Pence not playing sucker to the Big Lie? Oh sure Drumpf was going to just give up at that point.

Good grief. Here we are a year and a half out and Drumpf is still pushing the Big Lie and fantasizing he will be installed as POTUS. He can't stand the fact he's a loser, one term POTUS. He's mentally ill. His narcissism is pathologic.

It's been a year and a half, not one year and you have at least 2 more public hearings to go to find out just what smoking gun evidence there actually is ... that is, evidence beyond what we've all seen.

Ray Charles said it years ago:
Georgia
Georgia
The whole day through ...
Just an old, sweet song
Keeps Georgia on my mind
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Old 12th July 2022, 12:04 AM   #240
Joecool
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You haven't even heard all the evidence.

Besides for most of us, we understand Drumpf tried to subvert the votes in a number of states. Georgia has him on tape doing just that.
I'm so sorry, I didn't realize you had heard all of the evidence.

Even if Trump tried to subvert the votes in Georgia, how does that prove that he incited the riot on January 6th?

Do you know who Stacy Abrams is? What do you think of her actions? (I doubt you will respond?)

The democrats whined and cried voter suppression and then record votes were cast in 2020. I never claimed that fraud changed the outcome of the 2020 election. Joe Biden said Geogia was Jim Crowe 2.0 but his own state of Delaware has more voting restrictions than Georgia. And what did Joe Biden do about it? Nothing.
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