Raise your hand if you think the Secret Service "lost" the texts for January 5 & 6.

[acbytesla]

How many people believe that missing texts from the 5th and 6th was an honest mistake.

[shemp]

Of course! And JFK Jr. is alive and kicking!












NOT!!!

[a_unique_person]

Didn't they have a look for them and found them down the back of the couch?

[Regnad Kcin]

The texts threw themselves in front of a bullet and are, sadly, no longer with us.

[Stacyhs]

They're in boxes at Mar a Lago.

[BobTheCoward]

I have no evidence that they were either intentionally or unintentionally destroyed, so have no opinion.

The difficulty of obtaining evidence (in this case, evidence of intent) does not alter the burden of proof.

[Lothian]

Yes, and I imagine that quite a lot of work and planning went into losing them.

[Lurch]

The USSS has expertise in data forensics.

They are well aware of the requirement of retaining documents and communications.

The missing texts seem to be from only the 5th and 6th.

They were deleted AFTER the request for them.

The Director is a Trump appointee in the prolapsed orange anus's 3rd year.


Too many bad signs to take this as anything but skullduggery.

Yep. Everything Drumpf touches is contaminated, compromised, ruined, dead.

[Craig4]

I'm sure a few senior agents who were Trump supporters tried to delete the texts. However, it is in the nature of Trump voters to be stupid and as stupid people do, they didn't understand that once you hit send, you can't really delete a text.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Lurch

The USSS has expertise in data forensics.
They are well aware of the requirement of retaining documents and communications.
The missing texts seem to be from only the 5th and 6th.
They were deleted AFTER the request for them.
The Director is a Trump appointee in the prolapsed orange anus's 3rd year.

Too many bad signs to take this as anything but skullduggery.
Yep. Everything Drumpf touches is contaminated, compromised, ruined, dead.

Not only that, but:

- there is evidence at least some secret service agents were "friendly" with Trump and wanted Biden to fail.

From: Yahoo
Two top members of former President Donald Trump's personal security detail were "very, very close" to Trump and are "viewed as being aligned" with him, said Carol Leonnig, a long-time investigative reporter...Leonnig told MSNBC...that many Secret Service agents in Trump's detail were also rooting for President Joe Biden's failure, and used their social media accounts to "cheer on the insurrection"

- The excuse given by the secret service for losing the texts has shifted between "software upgrades" and "device replacement". Not a good sign if they can't keep their stories straight

- They originally requested a review by the inspector general of their response to the terrorist attack, but then proceeded to block the investigation

- The secret service has been less than forthcoming with dates... claiming that the data request came in February 2021, even though there was an earlier request from congress for "all materials" that was made in January 2021.

From: The Guardian
The Secret Service’s account about how text messages from the day before and the day of the Capitol attack were erased has shifted several times...At one point, the explanation from the Secret Service for the lost texts was because of software upgrades, the inspector general told the panel, while at another point, the explanation was because of device replacements.
...
The inspector general also said that though the secret service opted to have his office do a review...it then stonewalled the review by slow-walking production of materials.
...
the inspector general said that certain Secret Service texts...even after he had requested the messages for his internal inquiry. The Secret Service has disputed that, saying in a statement that data on some phones were lost as part of a pre-planned “system migration” in January 2021, and that Cuffari’s initial request for communications came weeks later in late February 2021...the subpoena letter that the request for electronic communications in fact first came from Congress, ten days after the Capitol attack.

[The Great Zaganza]

The Secret Service is infallible, incorruptible and impartial, and if you disagree, they will investigate you for counterfeiting.

[Donal]

Originally Posted by Lurch

The USSS has expertise in data forensics.

They are well aware of the requirement of retaining documents and communications.

The missing texts seem to be from only the 5th and 6th.

They were deleted AFTER the request for them.

The Director is a Trump appointee in the prolapsed orange anus's 3rd year.


Too many bad signs to take this as anything but skullduggery.

Yep. Everything Drumpf touches is contaminated, compromised, ruined, dead.

It's not just Trump. These people were in these roles for years. the GOP has spent decades putting ideologues and political operators into roles that were formerly filled by actual civil servants, irrespective of party alignment. People with relevant knowledge, experience, and desire for the job. It's in every agency and department.

That's not say these jobs were never leveraged, especially at the high level, but that both parties generally understood that there was important work that needed to be done by them.

[JoeMorgue]

It doesn't matter what you or I think. It gives them the vaguest, most ludicrious pretense on which to build an alternative narrative and in a post-fact world that all that is needed.

[Beelzebuddy]

It's not post-fact. They don't honestly believe the things they say. They're lying, we know they're lying, they know we know they're lying.

It's post-shame. The system until now has relied on people having integrity, and no one knows what to do when someone doesn't.

[Jungle Jim]

Here is an update from yesterday - https://www.mysuncoast.com/2022/07/1...deleted-texts/

I found this statement particularly interesting: "Florida Rep. Stephanie Murphy, a Democratic member of the Jan 6. panel, said the Secret Service acknowledged the erasure in a letter Tuesday, detailing how agency phones were migrated to a new system in the weeks after the 2021 attack.

Murphy said the agency left it up to individual agents to decide what electronic records to keep and what to delete during the process."

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Jungle Jim

Here is an update from yesterday - I found this statement particularly interesting: "Florida Rep. Stephanie Murphy, a Democratic member of the Jan 6. panel, said the Secret Service acknowledged the erasure in a letter Tuesday, detailing how agency phones were migrated to a new system in the weeks after the 2021 attack.

Murphy said the agency left it up to individual agents to decide what electronic records to keep and what to delete during the process."

Technically, I think that would be illegal. I think (as members of the executive branch) they are required to archive all their messages.

The line that stands out to me is this one:
The Secret Service responded by telling AP that “the insinuation that the Secret Service maliciously deleted text messages following a request is false.”

That sounds suspiciously like the type of rhetoric you get from the police after reports of abuse. Rather than admitting "we can't guarantee that someone overstepped boundaries", they circle the wagons and insist "no way anyone did anything wrong".

[BobTheCoward]

They don't have evidence their claims are true, but if anyone would like to assert their claims are untrue, I'm happy to review your evidence

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

They don't have evidence their claims are true, but if anyone would like to assert their claims are untrue, I'm happy to review your evidence

Would you mind rewriting that to make it clar?

Who is the 'they' in 'they don't have evidence'? What claims are you referring to?

ETA: Or is this just an attempt to bob the thread?

[JoeMorgue]

"I'd be happy to review your evidence" - Guy who doesn't think evidence as concept doesn't exist.

[tyr_13]

'We're not evil, we're incompetent.'

Ok, incompetent people get fired, turn in your gun if you haven't deleted that too and we can appoint someone who will investigate to see if you're actually both.

[Delphic Oracle]

I've read that devices used by SS agents are routed through secure servers. These servers don't retain communications? Literally the only copy is on the devices themselves?

Who would design a system, where the law says records must be kept, in such a way as to be less fault tolerant than a consumer device?

I can migrate data myself or have a 19 year-old "tech" at a phone store in a strip mall do it without any issues. How did the Secret Service "accidentally" fail in this rather simple procedure?

[Upchurch]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

I've read that devices used by SS agents are routed through secure servers. These servers don't retain communications? Literally the only copy is on the devices themselves?

"Secure" just means it can't be intercepted or, if intercepted, read. "Secure" is a separate concern from retention.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Who would design a system, where the law says records must be kept, in such a way as to be less fault tolerant than a consumer device?

I can migrate data myself or have a 19 year-old "tech" at a phone store in a strip mall do it without any issues. How did the Secret Service "accidentally" fail in this rather simple procedure?

That is a much better question. My current client provides a laptop that I would have to really make a serious attempt to transfer files on and off it in a way that isn't tracked or traceable. I can't install apps outside of an approved list.

The only non-nefarious reasons I think this could happen is that the USSS is either underfunded on their tech-side or USSS leadership is didn't value it enough to make it a priority.

[JoeMorgue]

I'm also wondering if the SS was just talking on their own personal devices.

The problem with making an "official" system is that if users don't like they'll use ad-hoc systems.

[Donal]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Technically, I think that would be illegal. I think (as members of the executive branch) they are required to archive all their messages.

The line that stands out to me is this one:
The Secret Service responded by telling AP that “the insinuation that the Secret Service maliciously deleted text messages following a request is false.”

That sounds suspiciously like the type of rhetoric you get from the police after reports of abuse. Rather than admitting "we can't guarantee that someone overstepped boundaries", they circle the wagons and insist "no way anyone did anything wrong".

Or it means "we knew this would get us in trouble, so we deleted them all before the request even came".

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

I've read that devices used by SS agents are routed through secure servers. These servers don't retain communications? Literally the only copy is on the devices themselves?

Who would design a system, where the law says records must be kept, in such a way as to be less fault tolerant than a consumer device?

I can migrate data myself or have a 19 year-old "tech" at a phone store in a strip mall do it without any issues. How did the Secret Service "accidentally" fail in this rather simple procedure?

It's hardly like this is the first time this has happened. Back in the Russia gate probe you had this:

Quote:

The Justice Department inspector general reviewed a gap in text messages sent between December 2016 through May 2017 from the Samsung Galaxy phones issued to Strzok and Page.

The inspector general’s December 2018 report found no evidence the text messages were intentionally deleted by Mueller or any other Justice Department employee. The review concluded that large portions of FBI text messages were not archived because of an FBI-wide software failure.

When Strzok and Page returned the phones issued to them, both were reset to factory setting and had no content from their use. The FBI ultimately managed to recover thousands of the messages.

https://apnews.com/article/archive-f...ing-8227360079

The the phones factory reset themselves, but it was nobody's fault and they FBI lost a bunch of the backups. Ooops!.

Then you have this case:

Quote:

More than two dozen phones belonging to members of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team were wiped clean of data before the Justice Department’s inspector general could comb them for records, the DOJ said in records released Thursday.

https://news.yahoo.com/least-27-phon...212933558.html

Obviously there is the Clinton thing with smashing the phones with hammers.

Then you have the FBI policy of not recording interviews. Instead they remember what you said and write it down afterwards based on their notes. You'd better not have incriminated yourself, or lied to them in any of the things they later recall that you said. Fortunately they have two agents present, so you'd need some kind of institutional corruption to be going on for this to be an issue.

Them losing the phones/accidentally destroying the phones/losing the data due to a software error is entirely predictable.

[sackett]

We tend to think that SecSvc operatives are steely-minded near-robots who operate flawlessly on all levels. In fact, they're cops.

"Wuh, we're s'poseta perteck da big guy at alla the times n places. He bin kinda off da rails t'day, mebbe I better squash them message thingies. Fuggin' congreasemen just wanna make trouble. Trouble fer DA BIG GUY! Nuh-uh, buddy, not wit my phone! Muh."

The above is, of course, a grossly unfair lampoon on a vital federal service bureau, and cannot possibly be discussed in any way, but only dismissed. With scorn. And denial. Thank you.

[Upchurch]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

I'm also wondering if the SS was just talking on their own personal devices.

The problem with making an "official" system is that if users don't like they'll use ad-hoc systems.

Prolly, but issue at hand are the messages through the official system, which definitely should have been retained even when going though a tech upgrade. Whether for maliciousness or incompetence, someone broke the law.

[Babbylonian]

Originally Posted by sackett

We tend to think that SecSvc operatives are steely-minded near-robots who operate flawlessly on all levels. In fact, they're cops.

"Wuh, we're s'poseta perteck da big guy at alla the times n places. He bin kinda off da rails t'day, mebbe I better squash them message thingies. Fuggin' congreasemen just wanna make trouble. Trouble fer DA BIG GUY! Nuh-uh, buddy, not wit my phone! Muh."

The above is, of course, a grossly unfair lampoon on a vital federal service bureau, and cannot possibly be discussed in any way, but only dismissed. With scorn. And denial. Thank you.

It's the same agency whose members were found to have hired up to 20 hookers to party in Cartagena during the Obama administration. It is indeed yet another crap law enforcement organization.

[BobTheCoward]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Would you mind rewriting that to make it clar?

Who is the 'they' in 'they don't have evidence'? What claims are you referring to?

ETA: Or is this just an attempt to bob the thread?

The secret service does not present evidence for their claims, so their claims are rejected.

But others are making claims that they intentionally deleted it. I would like to see evidence for that.

[wareyin]

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

The secret service does not present evidence for their claims, so their claims are rejected.

But others are making claims that they intentionally deleted it. I would like to see evidence for that.

It's probably one of those things that only people who have ever interacted with other people would understand.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by shuttlt

It's hardly like this is the first time this has happened.
....
The the phones factory reset themselves, but it was nobody's fault and they FBI lost a bunch of the backups. Ooops!.

Keep in mind that it is not just the loss of data itself that is making people suspicious of the claims that the loss of data was accidental... it is also all the secondary factors. (The changing stories between 'software problem' and 'device replacement', the friendliness that some agents have with Trump, the fact that the secret service is lying about the date of data requests, etc.)

Quote:

Them losing the phones/accidentally destroying the phones/losing the data due to a software error is entirely predictable.

I wouldn't say its predictable. I would say its POSSIBLE that the data loss was accidental. But there are reasons to be skeptical, for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

[wareyin]

Originally Posted by shuttlt

It's hardly like this is the first time this has happened. Back in the Russia gate probe you had this:


https://apnews.com/article/archive-f...ing-8227360079

The the phones factory reset themselves, but it was nobody's fault and they FBI lost a bunch of the backups. Ooops!.

Then you have this case:

https://news.yahoo.com/least-27-phon...212933558.html

Obviously there is the Clinton thing with smashing the phones with hammers.

Then you have the FBI policy of not recording interviews. Instead they remember what you said and write it down afterwards based on their notes. You'd better not have incriminated yourself, or lied to them in any of the things they later recall that you said. Fortunately they have two agents present, so you'd need some kind of institutional corruption to be going on for this to be an issue.

Them losing the phones/accidentally destroying the phones/losing the data due to a software error is entirely predictable.

That was an impressive collection of right wing conspiracy theory stuff that all proved to have not been material to any of the stories involved. Do you think the texts between the SS agents involved will similarly be a big nothing burger?

[JoeMorgue]

They were all texting each other on Hunter Biden laptops through Hillary's E-mail Server.

[Shalamar]

Originally Posted by wareyin

That was an impressive collection of right wing conspiracy theory stuff that all proved to have not been material to any of the stories involved. Do you think the texts between the SS agents involved will similarly be a big nothing burger?

It’s only wrong when a liberal does it.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by Shalamar

It’s only wrong when a liberal does it.

The best part is that the answer to literally everything the Right does. You don't even have to specify what "it" is anymore.

[The Great Zaganza]

If we listen to a person who was with the Secret Service that day, but not part of it, it becomes pretty clear what kind of messages got deleted: Mike Pence refused the Secret Service request to remove him from the Capitol.
Trump's plan to prevent a Jan 6th certification would have worked if Pence had been chased out of the Capitol by Trump's Mob.
I see the Secret Service as part of the Conspiracy to prevent the certification by using the excuse of Trump's Mob to whisk Pence away for the day to a remote location.

And the deleted messages would have shown that.

[Dr. Keith]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

If we listen to a person who was with the Secret Service that day, but not part of it, it becomes pretty clear what kind of messages got deleted: Mike Pence refused the Secret Service request to remove him from the Capitol.
Trump's plan to prevent a Jan 6th certification would have worked if Pence had been chased out of the Capitol by Trump's Mob.
I see the Secret Service as part of the Conspiracy to prevent the certification by using the excuse of Trump's Mob to whisk Pence away for the day to a remote location.

And the deleted messages would have shown that.

Bingo!

- Decorated war vet Uncle Eddy

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

If we listen to a person who was with the Secret Service that day, but not part of it, it becomes pretty clear what kind of messages got deleted: Mike Pence refused the Secret Service request to remove him from the Capitol.
Trump's plan to prevent a Jan 6th certification would have worked if Pence had been chased out of the Capitol by Trump's Mob.
I see the Secret Service as part of the Conspiracy to prevent the certification by using the excuse of Trump's Mob to whisk Pence away for the day to a remote location.

And the deleted messages would have shown that.

Once the insurrection was quelled, Pence would have returned to the Capitol and the certification would have occurred. Pence leaving the Capitol during the riot would not have changed that.

[stanfr]

And now the Inspector General is telling the SS to stop its investigation...the plot thickens.

I'd bet my right arm there are some major bombshells in those texts, I hope they are recovered!

[slyjoe]

Originally Posted by stanfr

And now the Inspector General is telling the SS to stop its investigation...the plot thickens.

I'd bet my right arm there are some major bombshells in those texts, I hope they are recovered!

They stopped the SS alright - it's now a criminal investigation.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/dhs...mess-rcna39392