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Tags atheism , China incidents , China issues , christian persecution , gosateizm

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Old 14th October 2018, 05:21 PM   #1601
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Perhaps we should take note of this quote:

“We are not here to tell other people how to live, what to do, who to be or how to worship,”
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Old 14th October 2018, 11:01 PM   #1602
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
What I said was that comparing actual abuse to utterly frivolous things like posts on the internet is an attempt to diminish the scope and importance of the event.
The comparison between a concentration camp and a post in a forum is so obviously absurd that only an absurd t hinking —yours— can take it literally. I know, I know, it is jesuitism. But even jesuitism has its limits. Yours is a surrealist branch of jesuitism, I suppose.

Last edited by David Mo; 14th October 2018 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 14th October 2018, 11:05 PM   #1603
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Sure, you use Chinese propaganda to deny Chinese human rights abuses
The spectacle is grotesque.

Last edited by David Mo; 14th October 2018 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 15th October 2018, 01:51 AM   #1604
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
The spectacle is grotesque.
I think it's just desperation. He's failed so manifestly in every part of this debate, from providing evidence, through reasoned argument, to rebutting counter-arguments, that this is all he has left.
Unless anyone else thinks I'm denying human rights abuses, I'm going to leave this point as it stands. I've said all I need to say, and to keep going over the same ground with someone who clearly has no interest in honesty or reason, is futile and a waste of my time.
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Old 15th October 2018, 02:37 AM   #1605
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I think it's just desperation. He's failed so manifestly in every part of this debate, from providing evidence, through reasoned argument, to rebutting counter-arguments, that this is all he has left.
Unless anyone else thinks I'm denying human rights abuses, I'm going to leave this point as it stands. I've said all I need to say, and to keep going over the same ground with someone who clearly has no interest in honesty or reason, is futile and a waste of my time.
Apart from the stubbornness, I see that the Big Dog has a problem of argumentation. Apart from repeating the same cuts that do not refer to atheism, statements of atheism by the Chinese hierarchy non related to religious repression and some vague opinions by uncertain experts, he has been unable to give a single argument that links atheism with the repression of clandestine churches and the iugur minority. At times he seemed to give arguments to the contrary without realizing it. It was so grotesque that I felt like arguing against myself sometimes. I certainly would have done better.
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Old 15th October 2018, 06:12 AM   #1606
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
Apart from the stubbornness, I see that the Big Dog has a problem of argumentation. Apart from repeating the same cuts that do not refer to atheism, statements of atheism by the Chinese hierarchy non related to religious repression and some vague opinions by uncertain experts, he has been unable to give a single argument that links atheism with the repression of clandestine churches and the iugur minority. At times he seemed to give arguments to the contrary without realizing it. It was so grotesque that I felt like arguing against myself sometimes. I certainly would have done better.
Besides from all the evidence that he has provided, he has not provided any evidence!

That is fantastic.

What is hilarious is that the sum total of arguments countering my detailed repeatedly supported by third party positions are 1. Gainsaying (see the above quoted post) 2. actual "grotesque" citations to actual Chinese propaganda (see the posts referring to China Today for example) 3. admittedly "absurd" posts that claim that my posts on the internet are worse than the actual abuse, and despite the fact that has been a theme repeatedly and frequently repeated in this thread (see the second post through the latest from Hans) the claim now is that those arguments are not serious.

"Vague opinions from uncertain experts." Pure gainsay, as I have expertly pointed out

I already told our DENIERS how they should have argued it, but they have chosen to ignore my sage advice.
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Old 15th October 2018, 01:20 PM   #1607
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
"Official Chinese government-backed website. Note the puzzling absence of crackdown."

equals

Using Chinese propaganda to deny Chinese human rights abuses.

End of story.
So do you actually care about human rights?

I have asked you this question several times and you have never answered it.
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Old 15th October 2018, 01:33 PM   #1608
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
So do you actually care about human rights?

I have asked you this question several times and you have never answered it.
Because TBD has no answer, For exactly the same reason that he refuses to address why his pope supports the chinese regime. And why it is that he does too.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:25 PM   #1609
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Besides from all the evidence that he has provided, he has not provided any evidence!

That is fantastic.

What is hilarious is that the sum total of arguments countering my detailed repeatedly supported by third party positions are 1. Gainsaying (see the above quoted post) 2. actual "grotesque" citations to actual Chinese propaganda (see the posts referring to China Today for example) 3. admittedly "absurd" posts that claim that my posts on the internet are worse than the actual abuse, and despite the fact that has been a theme repeatedly and frequently repeated in this thread (see the second post through the latest from Hans) the claim now is that those arguments are not serious.

"Vague opinions from uncertain experts." Pure gainsay, as I have expertly pointed out

I already told our DENIERS how they should have argued it, but they have chosen to ignore my sage advice.
I'm not interested in your opinions on what you've shown. I don't think you're a good judge of yourself or anything else. As I said, you lack the ability to argue till painful limits. An example:

Someone has quoted China Today to show how Chinese government tolerates the Catholic church under strict conditions. You begin immediately shouting: "Propaganda, propaganda! Atheists are using propaganda to justify putting 1 million Muslims in camps!" Nobody has justified anything with China Today. Someone has used this official page to show a simple evidence: Catholicism is legal in China under stern control conditions. You can even see this simple truth in Wikipedia. The quotation was correct. Your tactic is so absolutely pathetic that you should be ashamed to use it. Not because it is immoral -it is- but because it is silly.

I imagine that you are used to other audience. This shameful tactic may be successful with fanatic Christians. But here you are simply making yourself a fool. I don't know what you are intending. Your psalmody makes one angry at first. Afterwards it is boring. Finally one feels sorry for you.

NOTE: My only reason to continue with you it is that I need practising my English and I don’t find any other interesting subject to do it. This forum is a little dull recently.

Last edited by David Mo; 15th October 2018 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:34 PM   #1610
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
So do you actually care about human rights?

I have asked you this question several times and you have never answered it.
Yes. Brother Big Dog is a great propagandist of the repression of the Human Rights in China: he has quoted several times documents of the Chinese government! He is a Judas!
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Old 16th October 2018, 04:35 AM   #1611
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
So do you actually care about human rights?

I have asked you this question several times and you have never answered it.
As an American, I would think that if one really cared about the rights of Muslims one would be protesting American officials who are infringing on their rights a bit more vocally than Chinese officials. We American voters actually have a possibility to influence Trump, or vote for those who can curtail him. We have absolutely no chance of affecting Xi. Yet, some posters do all in their power to support those against freedoms for Muslims here, while making a big, showy, but impotent stink about being against a foreign dictator.

Reminds me of Matthews 6:5 in a book that TBD ought to read sometime.
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Old 16th October 2018, 05:37 AM   #1612
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
Nobody has justified anything with China Today. Someone has used this official page to show a simple evidence: Catholicism is legal in China under stern control conditions.
What a laughable juxtaposition!

That is absolutely hilarious.

No one has justified anything with the official propaganda outlet of the CCP, they just used this "official" (LOLOL!) site as "evidence."

And work will set you free, right?
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Old 16th October 2018, 06:30 AM   #1613
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
What a laughable juxtaposition!

That is absolutely hilarious.

No one has justified anything with the official propaganda outlet of the CCP, they just used this "official" (LOLOL!) site as "evidence."

And work will set you free, right?
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/vatica...t-bishops.html

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Old 16th October 2018, 06:31 AM   #1614
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
China officially legalized its "vocational training centers" for Muslim Uighurs. The UN says the centers are essentially internment camps where 1 million people are being held in mass detention and told to renounce their faith and swear loyalty to President Xi Jinping.

Communist Chinese values = atheism

I can highlight too.
Because they see it as a threat to their own rule, not because they're atheists. I'm an atheist and I don't want to prevent you from believing in and practicing your religion. Just do the same and don't step on my toes and we won't have a problem. Most atheists have no thought about imposing lack of belief.
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Old 16th October 2018, 06:38 AM   #1615
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Good morning folks, while one can claim that they condemn human rights abuses, when one cites to actual Chinese propaganda attempting to justify the atrocities, one’s acts speak louder than any big red font.
Who's done this? Who's denied that the Chinese are doing wrong and terrible things? Or can you not tell the difference between that and simply disagreeing that them doing so has nothing to do with atheism in general?
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Old 16th October 2018, 06:43 AM   #1616
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/vatica...t-bishops.html

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As i pointed out earlier the vatican is wrong to negotiate with atheist terrorists.
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Old 16th October 2018, 06:56 AM   #1617
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
As i pointed out earlier the vatican is wrong to negotiate with atheist terrorists.
Too many words in that sentence. There should be a period after wrong.
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Old 16th October 2018, 06:59 AM   #1618
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
What a laughable juxtaposition!

That is absolutely hilarious.

No one has justified anything with the official propaganda outlet of the CCP, they just used this "official" (LOLOL!) site as "evidence."

And work will set you free, right?
Of course, because it is true and shows the official position of the Chinese goverment that is also a point to consider in a honest debate about the causes of religious repression in China. Of course, truth is not into your interests. You are only interested in sticking your personal and dogmatic labels and sing your neverending psalmody.

If it is not allowed to quote Chinese official documents, why you have done it several times? Only you have the nihil obstat?

You don't distinguish -or you don't want to do it- between to use an official document as source of investigation and use an official text as propaganda. Nobody has used here Chinese official documents as communist propaganda. In the opposite share, you cannot say the same for yourself.
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Old 16th October 2018, 07:31 AM   #1619
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
What a laughable juxtaposition!

That is absolutely hilarious.

No one has justified anything with the official propaganda outlet of the CCP, they just used this "official" (LOLOL!) site as "evidence."

And work will set you free, right?
So do you actually care about human rights?

I have asked you this question several times and you have never answered it.
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Old 16th October 2018, 07:36 AM   #1620
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/vatica...t-bishops.html

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Hey, you're quoting an official source from the Catholic Theocratic State! You're undoubtedly a defender of the Holy Inquisition, an obscurantist and supporter of the engagement between the Catholic Theocratic State and the Chinese Communist Atheist State! I've got you! Shame on you!
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Old 17th October 2018, 02:04 AM   #1621
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
As i pointed out earlier the vatican is wrong to negotiate with atheist terrorists.
Why? Because they're atheists, or because they're terrorists?
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Old 17th October 2018, 05:26 AM   #1622
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
As i pointed out earlier the vatican is wrong to negotiate with atheist terrorists.
Of course you are correct.

Instead, the Catholic Church would be so much better off if they did what they know how to do such as support and enable the many child abusers that they choose to employ.
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Old 17th October 2018, 02:21 PM   #1623
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Of course you are correct.

Instead, the Catholic Church would be so much better off if they did what they know how to do such as support and enable the many child abusers that they choose to employ.
Yeah, I wonder has TBD registered his objection with the Vatican?
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Old 19th October 2018, 05:11 PM   #1624
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Probably worth adding an entry about the Reign of Terror in 18th C France here. From Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror
The Reign of Terror

There was a sense of emergency among leading politicians in France in the summer of 1793 between the widespread civil war and counter-revolution. Bertrand Barère exclaimed on 5 September 1793 in the Convention: "Let's make terror the order of the day!"...

Enlightenment thought emphasized the importance of rational thinking and began challenging legal and moral foundations of society, providing the leaders of the Terror with new ideas about the role and structure of government...

Religious elements that long stood as symbols of stability for the French people, were replaced by reason and scientific thought.[19][20] The radical revolutionaries and their supporters desired a cultural revolution that would rid the French state of all Christian influence...

In 1789, church lands were expropriated and priests killed and forced to leave France.[23] A Festival of Reason was held in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which was renamed "The Temple of Reason", and the old traditional calendar was replaced with a new revolutionary one...
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Old 19th October 2018, 10:45 PM   #1625
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Originally Posted by GDon View Post
Probably worth adding an entry about the Reign of Terror in 18th C France here. From Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror
The Reign of Terror

There was a sense of emergency among leading politicians in France in the summer of 1793 between the widespread civil war and counter-revolution. Bertrand Barère exclaimed on 5 September 1793 in the Convention: "Let's make terror the order of the day!"...

Enlightenment thought emphasized the importance of rational thinking and began challenging legal and moral foundations of society, providing the leaders of the Terror with new ideas about the role and structure of government...

Religious elements that long stood as symbols of stability for the French people, were replaced by reason and scientific thought.[19][20] The radical revolutionaries and their supporters desired a cultural revolution that would rid the French state of all Christian influence...

In 1789, church lands were expropriated and priests killed and forced to leave France.[23] A Festival of Reason was held in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which was renamed "The Temple of Reason", and the old traditional calendar was replaced with a new revolutionary one...
The attack against the Catholic church in 1793 was lidered by deists as Robespierre in the name of Rousseau's deist philosophy. Therefore they established the cult to Reason and the Supreme Being.

Is deism a criminal doctrine? I suppose that the Big Dog thinks so.
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Old 20th October 2018, 01:18 AM   #1626
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Originally Posted by GDon View Post
Probably worth adding an entry about the Reign of Terror in 18th C France here. From Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror
The Reign of Terror

There was a sense of emergency among leading politicians in France in the summer of 1793 between the widespread civil war and counter-revolution. Bertrand Barère exclaimed on 5 September 1793 in the Convention: "Let's make terror the order of the day!"...

Enlightenment thought emphasized the importance of rational thinking and began challenging legal and moral foundations of society, providing the leaders of the Terror with new ideas about the role and structure of government...

Religious elements that long stood as symbols of stability for the French people, were replaced by reason and scientific thought.[19][20] The radical revolutionaries and their supporters desired a cultural revolution that would rid the French state of all Christian influence...

In 1789, church lands were expropriated and priests killed and forced to leave France.[23] A Festival of Reason was held in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which was renamed "The Temple of Reason", and the old traditional calendar was replaced with a new revolutionary one...
As TBD would simply dismiss this as whataboutism, and his stance is supported by God, I feel safe in following suit.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 05:39 AM   #1627
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China crunches down on everything, not just religious values.

Is it wrong? Of course, you should have freedom of religioun.
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Old 26th October 2018, 02:20 PM   #1628
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In the news again:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...igion/10390784


Quote:
Catholics strike deal as Protestant churches are bulldozed

Last month the Chinese Government and the Vatican reached a landmark agreement to unite the estimated 10 million Catholics, who are split roughly in half between the underground Catholic church loyal to the Vatican and the state-controlled church.

The details for the agreement are being kept secret, however, what is known is that the Vatican and the Government will now both have a say over the appointment of new bishops across the country, which has been a major point of contention between the two for decades.

So the Vatican are going to allow the Chinese government to have a say in the appointment of bishops in the country. You have to admit these Catholics are survivors. Couldn't find any reference to atheists in the article. If its there I'm sure The Big Dog will find it.
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Old 26th October 2018, 03:16 PM   #1629
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
In the news again:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...igion/10390784





So the Vatican are going to allow the Chinese government to have a say in the appointment of bishops in the country. You have to admit these Catholics are survivors. Couldn't find any reference to atheists in the article. If its there I'm sure The Big Dog will find it.
Does this mean that the Vatican is now run by atheists?
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Old 26th October 2018, 03:23 PM   #1630
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
Does this mean that the Vatican is now run by atheists?

They certainly seem to have a leg in.
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Old 26th October 2018, 05:35 PM   #1631
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
In the news again:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...igion/10390784





So the Vatican are going to allow the Chinese government to have a say in the appointment of bishops in the country. You have to admit these Catholics are survivors. Couldn't find any reference to atheists in the article. If its there I'm sure The Big Dog will find it.
It's a smart move for the RICO , I mean the RCC. The Chinese held all the cards. Francis just folded when he knew he'd lost.
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Old 26th October 2018, 06:47 PM   #1632
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Wow, did no one manage to read the article?

“Mr Poon added that anyone displaying adherence to religion could be sent to a camp for re-education.

"You could be targeted for detention because you are religiously devout and pray at the local mosque, or in other cases [for] communicating with relatives overseas, which makes the Government worry about extremism."

Last month an Uighur man called Tarim spoke to the ABC about a facility outside Aksu City in western Xinjiang which he described as a "concentration camp".”

Let’s look at the actual title

“China's war on religion: Xi Jinping cracks down on 'evil cults' while 'brainwashing' ethnic minorities”

Only an anti religious fanatic would think that post showed anything but anti religious pogroms.

Thanks for posting that summary of anti religious fanaticism.

Oh man.
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Old 26th October 2018, 06:54 PM   #1633
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Quote:
RELATED STORY: 'A state of fear': Inside a Uighur detention facilityRELATED STORY: Church crosses burned in China's Christianity crackdownRELATED STORY: Why is the Bible being pulled from sale across bookstores in China?RELATED STORY: Catholics fear loss of religious rights as Beijing attempts to regain control of churchesRELATED STORY: Thousands of coffins destroyed, seized as China rolls out 'barbaric' no-burial policy
Banned Bibles, burnt crosses, exhumed coffins, an estimated 1 million Uighur Muslims reportedly held in re-education camps — nomination aside, adhering to non state-approved religious beliefs is a dangerous pursuit in President Xi Jinping's China in 2018.
Figure that anti catholic bigotry blinds anti religious fanatics from reading anti religious hatred.

Read the entire article folks, and read the posts.

Wow.
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Old 27th October 2018, 02:20 AM   #1634
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Figure that anti catholic bigotry blinds anti religious fanatics from reading anti religious hatred.

Read the entire article folks, and read the posts.

Wow.
Quote:
adhering to non state-approved religious beliefs is a dangerous pursuit in President Xi Jinping's China in 2018.
I take it from this quote that you now accept what everyone else here has been trying to tell you? That it's about state-control, not about atheisn, which is why there are state-approved religions. If it was about atheism, why are there state-approved religions? Read your own article.
Wow.
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Old 27th October 2018, 08:43 AM   #1635
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I take it from this quote that you now accept what everyone else here has been trying to tell you? That it's about state-control, not about atheisn, which is why there are state-approved religions. If it was about atheism, why are there state-approved religions? Read your own article.
Wow.
If it was not about atheism, why are there state permitted religions that are getting quashed under the thumb of firm Marxist atheists?

Atheism and human rights abuses go together like peas and carrots.
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Old 27th October 2018, 08:49 AM   #1636
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
If it was not about atheism, why are there state permitted religions that are getting quashed under the thumb of firm Marxist atheists?

Atheism and human rights abuses go together like peas and carrots.
Citation needed for the highlighted, especially as it contradicts your earlier citation.
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Old 27th October 2018, 08:52 AM   #1637
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Citation needed for the highlighted, especially as it contradicts your earlier citation.
Citation posted repeatedly in this thread.
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Old 27th October 2018, 10:41 AM   #1638
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Citation posted repeatedly in this thread.
So you are now distancing yourself from your most recent posts.

Do you even know what you are arguing for?

Please repost your citations for the state suppression of state-approved religions in China, just so we can see the full extent of your bridge-dwelling duplicity.
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Old 27th October 2018, 10:50 AM   #1639
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
So you are now distancing yourself from your most recent posts.

Do you even know what you are arguing for?

Please repost your citations for the state suppression of state-approved religions in China, just so we can see the full extent of your bridge-dwelling duplicity.
Rule of So!

Read the thread, and drop the false accusations of trolling, savvy?
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Old 27th October 2018, 12:52 PM   #1640
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
If it was not about atheism, why are there state permitted religions that are getting quashed under the thumb of firm Marxist atheists?

Atheism and human rights abuses go together like peas and carrots.

Oh my! The Big Dog is really pulling out the big guns now folks. How do we parry a thrust like this one?
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