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Old 15th October 2018, 07:18 PM   #1
Childlike Empress
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Post Shisms hit the fan in Orthodoxy

Anybody following this? In Ukraine, there are no less than three orthodox churches, two of them considered not legitimate by the international community of orthodox churches. The third one is a sister of the Russian orthodox church, and legitimate (canonical). Now there's a guy in the city we know thanks to TMBG wasn't always called Istanbul, and he is some kind of maverick, honorary guy given that sad story and the former glory. Now he has decided to declare the two shismatic churches of Ukraine legitimate, and declared his intention (but hasn't yet done it) to grant independence to a to-be-formed unified Ukrainian orthodox church, cutting the ties to the Russian orthodox church. Which is completely out of his competence according to all canonical international church leaders who yet commented, and today the Russian orthodox church (which is by far the largest of them all, but has no power over the others), declared the Constantinople guy to be considered a splitter until he repents and accepts that the other splitters are still splitters. Doom prophecies ensue and of course the US State Department and its Putsch regime is involved. More infos at our wiki page where I made a nice collage of five greybearded men this afternoon to illustrate the events. I was tempted to call it "propellerhats.png" but stuck to "orthodoxies.png" to not hurt any feelings...
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Old 15th October 2018, 07:29 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Anybody following this? In Ukraine, there are no less than three orthodox churches, two of them considered not legitimate by the international community of orthodox churches. The third one is a sister of the Russian orthodox church, and legitimate (canonical). Now there's a guy in the city we know thanks to TMBG wasn't always called Istanbul, and he is some kind of maverick, honorary guy given that sad story and the former glory. Now he has decided to declare the two shismatic churches of Ukraine legitimate, and declared his intention (but hasn't yet done it) to grant independence to a to-be-formed unified Ukrainian orthodox church, cutting the ties to the Russian orthodox church. Which is completely out of his competence according to all canonical international church leaders who yet commented, and today the Russian orthodox church (which is by far the largest of them all, but has no power over the others), declared the Constantinople guy to be considered a splitter until he repents and accepts that the other splitters are still splitters. Doom prophecies ensue and of course the US State Department and its Putsch regime is involved. More infos at our wiki page where I made a nice collage of five greybearded men this afternoon to illustrate the events. I was tempted to call it "propellerhats.png" but stuck to "orthodoxies.png" to not hurt any feelings...

Religion is dumb/wOOt Russia/Putin for whatever reason
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Old 15th October 2018, 07:34 PM   #3
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"Schism."

And silly people wearing sillier hats is not the basis of a form of government.
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Old 15th October 2018, 10:36 PM   #4
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
"Schism."

And silly people wearing sillier hats is not the basis of a form of government.
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Old 16th October 2018, 04:31 AM   #6
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I love Ukrainean orthodoxy. In church, even the young women modestly and chastly wear veils - but their skirts are shorter than the heels are high.

The Ukrainean orthodox church, or their raving, screaming leadership, once (in the 1990s or early 2000s) managed to rip open the paved ground in a central Kiev square to bury their deceased Metropolit right there on the spot, because the other confessions would not allow them to bury him on the walled premises of the (essentially secularized) cathedral. A ruckus ensued. The grave is still there.
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Old 16th October 2018, 02:27 PM   #7
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Surely it justifies a Russian invasion of what's left of the Ukraine!
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Old 17th October 2018, 05:40 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Anybody following this? In Ukraine, there are no less than three orthodox churches, two of them considered not legitimate by the international community of orthodox churches. The third one is a sister of the Russian orthodox church, and legitimate (canonical). Now there's a guy in the city we know thanks to TMBG wasn't always called Istanbul, and he is some kind of maverick, honorary guy given that sad story and the former glory. Now he has decided to declare the two shismatic churches of Ukraine legitimate, and declared his intention (but hasn't yet done it) to grant independence to a to-be-formed unified Ukrainian orthodox church, cutting the ties to the Russian orthodox church. Which is completely out of his competence according to all canonical international church leaders who yet commented, and today the Russian orthodox church (which is by far the largest of them all, but has no power over the others), declared the Constantinople guy to be considered a splitter until he repents and accepts that the other splitters are still splitters. Doom prophecies ensue and of course the US State Department and its Putsch regime is involved. More infos at our wiki page where I made a nice collage of five greybearded men this afternoon to illustrate the events. I was tempted to call it "propellerhats.png" but stuck to "orthodoxies.png" to not hurt any feelings...
I have not been following this issue.

Also, I really do not care if some weird religion develops because it split off of some other weird religion.
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Old 17th October 2018, 09:18 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
"Schism."

And silly people wearing sillier hats is not the basis of a form of government.
However, it is as good a basis as any for a religion.
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Old 17th October 2018, 11:17 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
"Schism."

And silly people wearing sillier hats is not the basis of a form of government.

What about strange women lying in ponds distributing swords?
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Old 17th October 2018, 11:19 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Anybody following this? In Ukraine, there are no less than three orthodox churches, two of them considered not legitimate by the international community of orthodox churches. The third one is a sister of the Russian orthodox church, and legitimate (canonical). Now there's a guy in the city we know thanks to TMBG wasn't always called Istanbul, and he is some kind of maverick, honorary guy given that sad story and the former glory. Now he has decided to declare the two shismatic churches of Ukraine legitimate, and declared his intention (but hasn't yet done it) to grant independence to a to-be-formed unified Ukrainian orthodox church, cutting the ties to the Russian orthodox church. Which is completely out of his competence according to all canonical international church leaders who yet commented, and today the Russian orthodox church (which is by far the largest of them all, but has no power over the others), declared the Constantinople guy to be considered a splitter until he repents and accepts that the other splitters are still splitters. Doom prophecies ensue and of course the US State Department and its Putsch regime is involved. More infos at our wiki page where I made a nice collage of five greybearded men this afternoon to illustrate the events. I was tempted to call it "propellerhats.png" but stuck to "orthodoxies.png" to not hurt any feelings...

Is it that they believe different things, or is it just a turf war?
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Old 17th October 2018, 11:27 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
And silly people wearing sillier hats is not the basis of a form of government.

But some of them can prevent the government from controlling your mind, allegedly ...
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Old 17th October 2018, 02:19 PM   #13
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I am puzzled why anyone should care about why some believers in an imaginary being split form other believers in the very same imaginary being.

Seriously, who cares? It's all imaginary.

Bunch of cross dressing wingnuts trying to not wear the same dress to the wedding as far as I can see, and about as important.
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Old 17th October 2018, 02:34 PM   #14
Childlike Empress
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Is it that they believe different things, or is it just a turf war?

Pure turf war (with very strong political undertones). The two ex-splitters are now split over how to proceed.

As always, it's kind of rude to tell people interested in a topic that they shouldn't be, so I would appreciate if the people not even able to find the hats interesting would stop to tell us about their disinterest.

Oystein, the guy buried you mention (mid 90's) was the predecessor of the main ex-splitter Filaret today, but I think (not sure) Filaret was only declared a splitter after his death.
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Old 17th October 2018, 03:11 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
I am puzzled why anyone should care about why some believers in an imaginary being split form other believers in the very same imaginary being.

Seriously, who cares? It's all imaginary.

Bunch of cross dressing wingnuts trying to not wear the same dress to the wedding as far as I can see, and about as important.
I agree "It's all imaginary", but sadly this has become a political issue with Moscow Orthodox priests calling the tune.

This is not a spiritual matter but geopolitical.
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