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Tags atheism , China incidents , China issues , christian persecution , gosateizm

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Old 12th September 2018, 08:00 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The vast majority of Chinese people are religious, it is a deeply religious country, it would be extraordinary that any group involved in the terrible persecution mentioned in this thread would be all atheists.

The state is atheist in China, as the USA state is atheist. In some countries the state is religious for example the UK, yet as you know people labeling themselves as religious in the UK Declines year on year. What the state religious "status" is does not necessarily reflect the religious or non religious beliefs of the people that make up the nation.
Love to take a deep dive into that! China is officially an Atheist Country by its Constitution. Its leaders are required to be atheist and its leader is requiring adherence to Firm Marxist Atheism in order to be in its leadership class who is responsible for the latest human rights violations and pogrom.

In contrast, the US Constitution says:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

further:

Quote:
Ten years after the Constitutional Convention ended its work, the country assured the world that the United States was a secular state, and that its negotiations would adhere to the rule of law, not the dictates of the Christian faith. The assurances were contained in the Treaty of Tripoli of 1797 and were intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers.
From here
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Old 12th September 2018, 08:01 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
http://www.newser.com/story/264468/u...nst-china.html

The fact that it is spreading and impacting more religious is all the more reason to do so because of the religious human rights catastrophe in China caused by the Sinicization strategy adopted in 2016 to make Chinese and those under its thumb "Firm marxist Atheists."
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I think we are all supposed to complain to our local atheist bishops and hope that they can prevail on the atheist pope to condemn our atheist brethren in China. I for one will bring this up at the golf course on Sunday.
oof, bummer about the timing...
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Old 12th September 2018, 08:10 AM   #163
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The US is constitutionally Secular, not Atheist.
Which I guess makes it Agnostic.
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Old 12th September 2018, 08:19 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
oof, bummer about the timing...
****, is the weather going to be bad on Sunday?
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Old 12th September 2018, 08:34 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
****, is the weather going to be bad on Sunday?
That would depend where you live, but no I was talking about the timing of your reply, which was shortly after I posted and linked to an article about the anticipated US response to the crackdown in China by the Atheist Regime.
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Old 12th September 2018, 08:44 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Love to take a deep dive into that! China is officially an Atheist Country by its Constitution. Its leaders are required to be atheist and its leader is requiring adherence to Firm Marxist Atheism in order to be in its leadership class who is responsible for the latest human rights violations and pogrom.

In contrast, the US Constitution says:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

further:



From here
So do you actually give a crap about human rights in China and the US Constitution?
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Old 12th September 2018, 08:51 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
oof, bummer about the timing...
No serious reply, just more atheist baiting?
Thanks for playing, come again.
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Old 12th September 2018, 08:56 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
No serious reply, just more atheist baiting?
Thanks for playing, come again.
Well considering I had literally already posted an article about the US's reaction in the post DIRECTLY before yours, AND it was linked in the very post to which you are replying, i gotta ask how in god's name you missed it??

/'atheist baiting," "hate speech".... "Atheists" are the real victims here.
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Old 12th September 2018, 10:37 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Christians in China have it easy, compared to Muslims or Tibetan Buddhists.
The crackdown on religion is a rational preemptive measure to avoid a Chechnya situation.

.
What a bunch of BS. So repressive measures are OK if you don't like the people being repressed.
COngratulations. You have proven youself no better then TBD.
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Old 12th September 2018, 10:45 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What a bunch of BS. So repressive measures are OK if you don't like the people being repressed.
COngratulations. You have proven youself no better then TBD.
tut tut tut, no better than

As in: "applauding the appalling crackdown on religion as a "rational preemptive measure' makes you no better than TBD's appalling actions in hurting atheists' feels."

Hmm, you may have a couple of major mistakes in that final sentence....
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Old 12th September 2018, 11:02 AM   #171
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So, quick question, when Putin, who was a communist and therefore a horrible atheist, promoted laws backed by the Orthodox church, of which he now is a nice and conformist member, to criminalize Jehova's witnesses and anyone 'defaming' the church.
Did you feel a similar outrage?
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Old 12th September 2018, 11:09 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What a bunch of BS. So repressive measures are OK if you don't like the people being repressed.
COngratulations. You have proven youself no better then TBD.
Quick to judge, aren't we?

I'm not endorsing China's repressions - but I can see the rationale from the POV of the Leadership.
The brutal re-education of the masses of the Muslim minority is most likely the biggest (by scale) human rights violation in decades.
It is also what is keeping Radical Islamism from gaining a foothold in China.
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Old 12th September 2018, 11:23 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Love to take a deep dive into that! China is officially an Atheist Country by its Constitution. Its leaders are required to be atheist and its leader is requiring adherence to Firm Marxist Atheism in order to be in its leadership class who is responsible for the latest human rights violations and pogrom.
Really? Documentation?

Here is the Constitution of China: https://www.purdue.edu/crcs/wp-conte...nstitution.pdf

While you look for the clause you are claiming, the rest of us can read this:


Quote:
Article 36. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of religious belief. No
state organ, public organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not to believe
in, any religion; nor may they discriminate against citizens who believe in, or do not believe in,
any religion. The state protects normal religious activities. No one may make use of religion to
engage in activities that disrupt public order, impair the health of citizens or interfere with the
educational system of the state. Religious bodies and religious affairs are not subject to any
foreign domination.
Hans
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Old 12th September 2018, 11:30 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You want that in Russian, Chinese or what? The League of the Militant Godless has some next level stuff and the Soviet and Chinese engaged in wholesale rape, murder and slavery within the last century, didnít just write about it.

Say, any comments about the latest pogrom or just gonna make ďcleverĒ comments that donít work out so well?
How about something other than communist propaganda or childish projection?

Atheism did not begat communism anymore than christianity begat child molestation - they endorse it, but they didn't invent it.
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Old 12th September 2018, 12:38 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
How about something other than communist propaganda or childish projection?

Atheism did not begat communism
Communist propaganda? Y'all want something from the Atheist Bible, or you want how the monsters actually act.

Wrong: "Communism begins from the outset with atheism."

K. Marx
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Old 12th September 2018, 12:40 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
That would depend where you live, but no I was talking about the timing of your reply, which was shortly after I posted and linked to an article about the anticipated US response to the crackdown in China by the Atheist Regime.
How does that relate to how we, as atheist, should feel some kinship or association with people we have neither kinship nor association with, ie Xi and his autocratic regime?
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Old 12th September 2018, 12:42 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Really? Documentation?

Here is the Constitution of China: https://www.purdue.edu/crcs/wp-conte...nstitution.pdf

While you look for the clause you are claiming, the rest of us can read this:

Hans
Thanks Hans! man, what a sack of hypocrites those guys are, huh?

But the Constitution designates the Party to run the country under the tenets of marxist leninism, so, add two plus two and you end up with a pogrom just like the one that is going on right now in china, despite the "No
state organ, public organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not to believe in, any religion"

That is in fact exactly what they are doing now, am I right?
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Old 12th September 2018, 12:44 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
tut tut tut, no better than
TBD, if you're going to start chasing around grammar mistakes like a priest in a kiddie pool that's really going to clog up the thread.
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Old 12th September 2018, 12:46 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
How does that relate to how we, as atheist, should feel some kinship or association with people we have neither kinship nor association with, ie Xi and his autocratic regime?
Well "we" as human beings should be opposed to it, and should say so without equivocation. Unfortunately, with some exceptions, that has not really happened in this thread, instead people are outraged that I had the temerity to mention atheism is the religious crackdown by atheists. (or tried to make it about Trump, which: )
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Old 12th September 2018, 12:47 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
TBD, if you're going to start chasing around grammar mistakes
say, you cut out the meat of my post. "weird."
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Old 12th September 2018, 12:51 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Communist propaganda? Y'all want something from the Atheist Bible, or you want how the monsters actually act.

Wrong: "Communism begins from the outset with atheism."

K. Marx
Now I get it!

Atheism = Communism.

Gotcha.

Here's one that works too

Religon = child molestors.
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Old 12th September 2018, 12:57 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Thanks Hans! man, what a sack of hypocrites those guys are, huh?

But the Constitution designates the Party to run the country under the tenets of marxist leninism, so, add two plus two and you end up with a pogrom just like the one that is going on right now in china, despite the "No
state organ, public organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not to believe in, any religion"

That is in fact exactly what they are doing now, am I right?
No, you are not right. You made a claim about atheism being a requirement, and you were wrong.

Yes, the Chinese government is not happy with religions that may overshadow it's power. No government is.

Yes, the Chinese Constitution sounds very nice. In fact most countries could learn a lot from it. Unfortunately, it is not necessarily practiced as written.

Hans
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Old 12th September 2018, 12:58 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
say, you cut out the meat of my post. "weird."
And you cut the sausage out of mine. "kinky"
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:01 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
And you cut the sausage out of mine. "kinky"
Everybody knows how those christians love their sausage.
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:02 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Now I get it!
No,

Think of it like a Venn diagram.

The subset of the people responsible for this atrocity all fall directly within the set of "atheist."
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:04 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
No, you are not right. You made a claim about atheism being a requirement, and you were wrong.

Yes, the Chinese government is not happy with religions that may overshadow it's power. No government is.

Yes, the Chinese Constitution sounds very nice. In fact most countries could learn a lot from it. Unfortunately, it is not necessarily practiced as written.

Hans
"Not happy" sounds like a bit of an understatement, no?

the Chinese Government rounds up a million people and destroys churches, books etc. Not sure "not happy" fits.
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:11 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Communist propaganda? Y'all want something from the Atheist Bible, or you want how the monsters actually act.

Wrong: "Communism begins from the outset with atheism."

K. Marx
A fast google search reveals that full quote as:

"Communism begins from the outset with atheism; but atheism is at first far from being communism; indeed, that atheism is still mostly an abstraction." -Karl Marx.

Don't you think it's a bit dishonest to abbreviate it that way?
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:13 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
A fast google search reveals that full quote as:

"Communism begins from the outset with atheism; but atheism is at first far from being communism; indeed, that atheism is still mostly an abstraction." -Karl Marx

Don't you think it's a bit dishonest to abbreviate it that way? .
eta: No, of course not, not in the slightest.
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:14 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
"Not happy" sounds like a bit of an understatement, no?

the Chinese Government rounds up a million people and destroys churches, books etc. Not sure "not happy" fits.
You live in China and do something the govt is not happy with and you will know it's not an understatement. But, I'm glad we got over the "evil atheist" nonsense and on to the real thing: The evil, or at least ruthless, dictatorship.

Hans
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:15 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
No,

Think of it like a Venn diagram.

The subset of the people responsible for this atrocity all fall directly within the set of "atheist."
I think most of them ate rice for dinner, too. We should ban human consumption of rice.
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:23 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
eta: No, of course not, not in the slightest.
To me it looks very dishonest, because the remaining part of the quote about atheism being far from communism really seems to undermine the point you were trying to make.

Do you see what I mean?
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:30 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
You live in China and do something the govt is not happy with and you will know it's not an understatement. But, I'm glad we got over the "evil atheist" nonsense and on to the real thing: The evil, or at least ruthless, dictatorship.

Hans
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I think most of them ate rice for dinner, too. We should ban human consumption of rice.
Fellas, this ain't because of eating rice, or merely because they are a ruthless totalitarian state.

They are suppressing religion because Xi wants China to be an atheist state and because of an ideology that requires it to be an atheist state.

Not sure why so many people are outraged about the plain and simple facts, but to help you get over it, I would be delighted to refer to it as Marxist Atheism, deal?
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:33 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
To me it looks very dishonest, because the remaining part of the quote about atheism being far from communism really seems to undermine the point you were trying to make.

Do you see what I mean?
Not at all, because I fully understand that what it meant is that passive atheism isn't going to destroy religion, it takes active communism to do it.
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:43 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
They are suppressing religion because Xi wants China to be an atheist state and because of an ideology that requires it to be an atheist state.
No. Their ideology requires it to be a socialist state. A socialist state is indifferent to religion, as long as religion is not perceived to threaten the state's power.

Incidentally, this is true of all governments.

Hans
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:43 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Fellas, this ain't because of eating rice, or merely because they are a ruthless totalitarian state.

They are suppressing religion because Xi wants China to be an atheist state and because of an ideology that requires it to be an atheist state.

Not sure why so many people are outraged about the plain and simple facts, but to help you get over it, I would be delighted to refer to it as Marxist Atheism, deal?
The reason why more people are not outraged about what you describe is because you are wrong about what you are outraged about.
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:57 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
No. Their ideology requires it to be a socialist state. A socialist state is indifferent to religion, as long as religion is not perceived to threaten the state's power.

Incidentally, this is true of all governments.

Hans
Ah, well, it is just that these Marxist Atheists states have a very recurrent perception that religion is a threat, perhaps it has something to do with the marxism part?

"The abolition of religion, as the illusory happiness of the people, is the demand for their real happiness."

Marx
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Old 12th September 2018, 01:59 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
The reason why more people are not outraged about what you describe is because you are wrong about what you are outraged about.
I knew it was the rice!

Wait, you're saying it's the totalitarian state squashing all forms of dissent aren't you?

****.

Well, we can still ban rice, right? I've always preferred sashimi.
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Old 12th September 2018, 02:02 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I knew it was the rice!

Wait, you're saying it's the totalitarian state squashing all forms of dissent aren't you?

****.

Well, we can still ban rice, right? I've always preferred sashimi.
Your silly rice analogy is more persuasive as pretending that the Firm Marxist Atheist ideology isn't involved.

score one for you.
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Old 12th September 2018, 02:17 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Your silly rice analogy is more persuasive as pretending that the Firm Marxist Atheist ideology isn't involved.

score one for you.
Truth be told I ate rice today, too. Now I'm feeling guilty about this **** that other consumers of rice are doing in China. Damn.
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Old 12th September 2018, 02:25 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Truth be told I ate rice today, too. Now I'm feeling guilty about this **** that other consumers of rice are doing in China. Damn.
Oh my, you do love your rice analogy.

Say, maybe if instead of Firm Marxist Atheists persecuting religious people, instead we have Firm Marxist Rice marketing board persecuting people who didn't eat rice, and then TBD would come in and explain it is because of the fact they market rice, and then pro-rice snowflakes would come in and say, no, it has nothing to do with rice, it is because dictatorship.

"Rice, it is what Marxist Atheists eat when persecuting religious people."
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