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Old 17th December 2020, 11:34 PM   #2521
Lukraak_Sisser
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Simple choice and not complex at all.

Either dumb matter had inherent attributes to form intelligence or intelligence was the prime cause to begin with.

You are saying that this incredible complex physical universe appeared because dumb matter appeared without any cause. I explained that God appeared because an intelligent entity was the prime cause and that we are all an illusion.

Use some logic. We are talking probabilities. Which is more probable?
Yes, the choice is simple.

Intelligence is an emergent property. Hence it needs to emerge from something and can thus never be the prime cause.

Because you again fail to answer where your 'prime cause intelligence' comes from and resort to special pleading.
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Old 17th December 2020, 11:45 PM   #2522
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I don't apply an anthropomorphic standard to god. I apply an anthropomorphic standard to the value of humanity. It seems reasonable to do so and unreasonable to presume that a god that does not, whether or not it exists, would be relevant to us.

A god that is truly amoral would not be in the business of punishing sin or promoting the good of anything, nor would it care whether or not we worshiped it. Any evidence for a truly amoral god would have to come from some source other than its behavior, which would, I suspect, be indistinguishable from chance. No such evidence seems to be forthcoming.

Suspect a worn out piston in the clutch master cylinder. Piston seals here are designed to expand when pushed, and will, in their early failure state do so intermittently as the difference between a cup expanding enough to seal and not quite enough is tiny but its result is drastic. Fluid will leak past but returns to the reservoir so level stays up. May work better if you stab the pedal than if you use it slowly. The behavior of such devicdes is mysterious but not magical!
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Old 17th December 2020, 11:51 PM   #2523
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Great, let's do that-




My highlight in your question. It's a perfectly on-point response to a "why" question to say that there may not be one- this is not "an escape route," it's an answer. That you don't like it because it doesn't make sense in your terms doesn't end the debate, it requires you to do more to uphold your end of it than to just sniff "hardly" at what you can't accept, or even, apparently, imagine- that is ending the debate and refusing to think.

But you do you- keep trying to center the debate around only the areas you can debate.

You are quite right that I want to debate an area that I can win on. But it is a critical question. One that has been used by atheists in the past.

Scientist have taken over the philosophers role in using their intellect to explain the universe. A major part of explaining the Universe is trying to logically explain the origin. No matter what point of view is held, everyone accepts the principle of a Prime Cause. That which has no prior cause.

In recent decades, a number of atheistic scientists have stated that the universe has always existed as we currently know it.

Then came the Big Bang, which was the theory of a Belgian priest named Georges Lemaître who first suggested the big bang theory in the 1920s, when he theorized that the universe began from a single primordial atom.

This smacked of creationism and was at first opposed. Now some scientists are using mathematics to suggest a multiverse that always existed. Back to the concept of the physical universe and the laws of physics being the Prime Cause.

But it does not explain that "dumb matter/energy" has the attributes to form both life and intelligence. Why did the evolution of planets not stop and lifeless balls of matter? Spectacular, but with no-one to observe it.

When atheists first used the "always existed" and no underlying turtles as an argument against the existence of God they were happy to do so. Now that they have a problem with that explanation they want to avoid it.

When I watch Dawkins and others debate the existence of God they have a deflection that they use to change the subject when they get to these sticky points.

We need a panel of judges to rule on who is winning the debate on this critical point. I want logic and not an unsupported opinion.
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Old 18th December 2020, 12:05 AM   #2524
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Your list is contrived and distorted.
And yet you didn't object when I compiled it. You just made insulting comments like this one when it proved that your actual hit rate was much lower than your confirmation bias had led you to believe, still without offering any valid criticisms of the list.

Quote:
But you will do it anyway.
I will continue to keep track of your actual hit rate, yes.

Quote:
The odds are not in favor of my prediction and yes it is specific and short enough. Is there anyone giving odds? Or is it also considered too bad taste?
If you want to know the odds of getting this particular hit by chance, do the research yourself. I'm sure there are statistics available on the life expectancy of a man of Biden's age and general health.
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Old 18th December 2020, 12:06 AM   #2525
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I don't apply an anthropomorphic standard to god. I apply an anthropomorphic standard to the value of humanity. It seems reasonable to do so and unreasonable to presume that a god that does not, whether or not it exists, would be relevant to us.

A god that is truly amoral would not be in the business of punishing sin or promoting the good of anything, nor would it care whether or not we worshiped it. Any evidence for a truly amoral god would have to come from some source other than its behavior, which would, I suspect, be indistinguishable from chance. No such evidence seems to be forthcoming.

Suspect a worn out piston in the clutch master cylinder. Piston seals here are designed to expand when pushed, and will, in their early failure state do so intermittently as the difference between a cup expanding enough to seal and not quite enough is tiny but its result is drastic. Fluid will leak past but returns to the reservoir so level stays up. May work better if you stab the pedal than if you use it slowly. The behavior of such devicdes is mysterious but not magical!
Both good answers.

Please do not confuse the Infinite Intelligence, who is amoral, with God who was created to do as much good as he is able to give the rules that the Infinite Intelligence has set. The Infinite Intelligence wishes to be entertained by a battle between good and evil.

Death and suffering are human conditions. They are illusions because the Universe is a dream in the Mind of the Infinite Intelligence.

A good father sometimes has to punish his children. A good society has to punish the wrong-doers. A war against an invading enemy means sending young men to die, sometimes needlessly.


Your explanation for the clutch not working is probably correct. Having had a few second hand cars with hydraulic problems it is the most reasonable explanation and I will be replacing the seals. It is also possible that there was some oil on the clutch plate which became sticky and would not release.

I did try to "pump" the clutch a bit, and also do a high rev slip-burn but they did not work. It is possible that the change in air temperature from night cold to day warm had an effect. Either way, I need to drive the pickup around every day for a few days before fixing it to see if it happens again.

Now the explanation of the timing of this serendipitous event. Just luck once more? And why am I so lucky? The laws of probability that some of are very lucky and other are very unlucky?

Thanks for a reasoned contribution.
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Old 18th December 2020, 02:08 AM   #2526
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
No matter what point of view is held, everyone accepts the principle of a Prime Cause.
Wrong, as has previously been pointed out to you.

You do understand that simply ignoring the information people give you does not make it magically go away?
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Old 18th December 2020, 03:24 AM   #2527
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Coincidentally... That word again:
I just watched the beginning of a Sophie & Co RT show about the the Prime Cause.
Here is one reference I looked up.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...hh/Davies.html

..."All science proceeds on the assumption that nature is ordered in a rational and intelligible way. You couldn't be a scientist if you thought the universe was a meaningless jumble of odds and ends haphazardly juxtaposed." "Davies then observed that scientists take the orderly laws of physics 'on faith' and that those laws 'all are expressed as tidy mathematical relationships.'" Davies then asked "But where do these laws come from? And why do they have the form that they do?" Davies said that after this his email was "overflowing with vitriol".

..."If nature is so 'clever' as to exploit mechanisms that amaze us with their ingenuity, is that not persuasive evidence for the existence of intelligent design behind the universe? If the world's finest minds can unravel only with difficulty the deeper workings of nature, how could it be supposed that those workings are merely a mindless accident, a product of blind chance?" p235-236.

"If physics is the product of design, the universe must have a purpose, and the evidence of modern physics suggests strongly that the purpose includes us."

Stephen Hawking: "The general multiverse explanation is simply naive deism dressed up in scientific language. Both appear to be an infinite unknown, invisible and unknowable system. Both require an infinite amount of information to be discarded just to explain the (finite) universe we live in."


Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mind_of_God
The Mind of God is a 1992 non-fiction book by Paul Davies. Subtitled The Scientific Basis for a Rational World, it is a whirlwind tour and explanation of theories, both physical and metaphysical, regarding ultimate causes. Its title comes from a quotation from Stephen Hawking: "If we do discover a theory of everything...it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason—for then we would truly know the mind of God."
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Old 18th December 2020, 03:28 AM   #2528
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Wrong, as has previously been pointed out to you.

You do understand that simply ignoring the information people give you does not make it magically go away?

You are quite right. There are some few exceptions to my statement. There are deniers to every hypothesis and every generally accepted fact. You are evidently one. Do I have to add this disclaimer to every post I make? I will add it to my signature.

See my previous post about Paul Davies.
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Old 18th December 2020, 03:37 AM   #2529
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The odds of Biden dying in the first year based solely on his age appear to be 20:1. In the first month, it is possibly 12 times this, so 240:1. Those are long odds. But insurance companies want a full medical history as well as a current medical. How fit and well is Biden. He may just stumble and fall off the stage.

I do not wish it on him so I have to wish that I am wrong. I think it would be more interesting to have him alive to answer questions about his dealings involving his son Hunter.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/opini...hwe-story.html
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Old 18th December 2020, 03:38 AM   #2530
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
You call it a fantasy. You are a denier of facts.

I met a climate change denier who is intelligent and sincere. But he wants to believe it will not happen. So he believes Tony Heller who make his arguments sound great and very scientific.

You refuse to accept that God might be the correct explanation (with the Infinite Intelligence who created God) to the cause of the Universe. Your arguments against my hypothesis change to suit your position. They are inconsistent, which is the very claim you make about organized religion.

You set God up as your own version, a straw man, that you then tear down. I can see the faults in such an argument. Santa Claus and God are false comparisons because of the logic and evidence for God. Show me any evidence for Santa Claus that is not a clear and deliberate plant by adults to entertain children.
No.
You have no facts about god.

It is belief only.
A fantasy.
Children wake up to the fantasy of Santa Claus.

And that’s what all religion basically is, childish fantasy.
And just like belief in Santa, if you do good you get presents.
With religion, if you do good you get heaven. Well, the promise anyway.

Heaven and hell are even more childish beliefs - and a con.
At least stocking fillers at Xmas are real.
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Old 18th December 2020, 04:12 AM   #2531
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Yes I have evidence for God and so do many others.
Nobody does. Not you. Not anyone. How do I know that? Because neither you nor anyone else has ponied up with any such evidence. Never.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
First I have personal experience that can only be explained by God.
Ah. The old and tired "personal experience" excuse. Not buying that.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Second, I see the benefits to living a moral life according to the wishes of the Christian/Islamic God.
Is slavery moral? Or not?

Are women property?

Is genocide moral?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Thirdly, it is explains the origin of the universe as no scientific explanation can. I could go on.
Yay. The god of the gaps appears inevitably. This statement is a lie because you clearly because yo think that YOU can explain the origin of the universe.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
You are free to be a denier.
Show me the evidence for a god, any god, and if it were valid, I would believe in that god. You cannot.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
As for death camps, that is another distortion based on fear. You have a right to such fear given the sad state of morality in the world. If the world was more God-loving and God-fearing, then one would not fear the abuse of the concept of hospices.
The final solution, right?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
All the Jewish people I saw at the end of their life feared dying. Most were atheists for a start (God deniers) and also believed (as per the Jewish faith) that there is no afterlife. This is not so with Christians who for the most part do not fear dying.
Baloney.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Most would prefer to live on, but accept it when the end comes.
More baloney.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
These are simple facts that most Jews would not deny.
You know most jews?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
It is not an antisemitic statement but people on this forum are experts at twisting any constructive criticism into something nasty. It is not nasty. It is honesty, and sometimes honesty can be painful to accept.
Nope. It isn't just nasty, it is also disgusting.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I have said that the update for conventional religions is necessary, and this is one area that the Jewish religion could change. Their massive influence in society is a problem in this regard. It will be interesting to see how the world deals with a God driven die-off. Hospitals and countries will NOT cope with the number that will die. Change will be forced upon them.
And of you go into your death filled fantasy land.
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Old 18th December 2020, 04:40 AM   #2532
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
There are deniers to every hypothesis and every generally accepted fact.
The idea of a prime cause is not a generally accepted fact. It's an argument (the cosmological argument) which may or may not be correct. The biggest objection to it is that it's self contradictory, in that it violates the assumption (everything has a cause) on which it's based. If you're going to allow a single exception to that assumption (everything except the prime cause has a cause) then why not just make the existence of the universe the exception? It's more parsimonious.
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Old 18th December 2020, 07:19 AM   #2533
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Speaking of anthropomorphising god...
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Please do not confuse the Infinite Intelligence, who is amoral, with God who was created to do as much good as he is able to give the rules that the Infinite Intelligence has set. The Infinite Intelligence wishes to be entertained by a battle between good and evil.
Why does it wish that? How do you know?

Quote:
Death and suffering are human conditions. They are illusions because the Universe is a dream in the Mind of the Infinite Intelligence.
So you're a solipsist.

Quote:
A good father sometimes has to punish his children.
By killing them?

Quote:
A good society has to punish the wrong-doers.
By applying the death penalty for littering?

Quote:
A war against an invading enemy means sending young men to die, sometimes needlessly.
If you're defending your country from a foreign invader that is determined to kill your young men and women and children, and old men, old women, middle aged men, middle aged women... Then is the death of a few young men and women, (they can be soldiers too, let's not be sexist) really needless?

Quote:
Now the explanation of the timing of this serendipitous event. Just luck once more? And why am I so lucky?
Are you that lucky? You have serious ill health and you keep losing court cases!

Quote:
The laws of probability that some of are very lucky and other are very unlucky?
Actually, yes. Some people have more bad luck, some have more good luck. It also depends on what you consider to be good luck.
For example;
You lose a court case that you think you should have won, but are relieved of paying costs.
You call that good luck, I call it bad luck.
To you, having lost the case it's good luck that you didn't have a massive bill for costs.
To me, if you definitely think you should have won the case, then it's bad luck that you lost.
Luck is often subjective.
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Old 18th December 2020, 07:50 AM   #2534
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
But it does not explain that "dumb matter/energy" has the attributes to form both life and intelligence.
Your continued reference to "dumb matter" is a straw man. And yes, we've resolved this for you many times. Your unwillingness to accept the answer doesn't mean you get to claim you've stumped the atheists.
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Old 18th December 2020, 07:54 AM   #2535
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
This is a multi-subject thread. Or do you set the rules?
Irrelevant. I can point out when you get mired in a topic beyond your capacity to understand and respond, and try to bring up other topics as a distraction. The rules of polite debate transcend this forum.

Quote:
he site come up yesterday.
That doesn't make it suddenly relevant to any of the topics we have been trying to pin you down on.

Quote:
Once more, there is no other explanation. If we did not have the microwave explanation we would have to start considering "voodoo curses".
Once more, I read the actual report while you obviously did not. Therefore I can speak to the scope of its findings while you can do nothing but try distraction. More importantly, I'm able to report what the actual scientists who did the research said the scope of findings should be construed as. Your fervent desire to make it something else doesn't change that.

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Old 18th December 2020, 08:02 AM   #2536
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Please do not confuse the Infinite Intelligence, who is amoral, with God who was created to do as much good as he is able to give the rules that the Infinite Intelligence has set. The Infinite Intelligence wishes to be entertained by a battle between good and evil.
All of this is made up. You have no facts to demonstrate that any of this is true.

Quote:
And why am I so lucky? The laws of probability that some of are very lucky and other are very unlucky?
Yes, that could be true. And it could also be true that you note coincident behavior when there is a reason to do so, and ignore it in other cases, leading you to build up a statistically indefensible belief about how probability works in your case. This is why the scientific method requires observations whose collection does not depend on human attention.

You have claimed abilities that you say transcend those of ordinary humans. Yet you become very defensive, to the point of insult, when anyone suggests that we test those in a way where you cannot manipulate the outcome or collect the observation selectively. This suggests you intend to deceive people (or perhaps just yourself) into believing those claims are real.
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Old 18th December 2020, 08:06 AM   #2537
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
YThere are deniers to every hypothesis and every generally accepted fact.
The existence of a prime cause is not a generally accepted fact among all humans. It's not even a generally accepted fact among the philosophers who posit such possibilities. Your argument over the past few days hasn't risen above conjuring the existence of something you can call a supreme being out of nothing but rhetorical handwaving and vigorous question-begging.

You have nothing that anyone but you would recognize as evidence for your belief. Stop trying to make that someone else's fault.
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Old 18th December 2020, 08:13 AM   #2538
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Here is one reference I looked up.
Yes, Davies is one of a handful of former physicists who have tried their hand at philosophy and generally end up abusing both in the process. For some reason, the public thinks physicists have greater insight as a matter of course into the question of origins as it vexes the human condition and often end up making a quick buck by writing popular books on the subject -- usually when their scientific careers start to tank. Scientists don't take the laws of nature on faith. They take the laws of nature on observation. And as badly as you want that to mean there must be some inteligent design behind it, there's no reason to suppose any such thing.

No, Mr Davies' opinions are not generally representative of scientific knowledge, understanding, or practice.
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Old 18th December 2020, 08:35 AM   #2539
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I keep giving you guys personal anecdotes about the supernatural which, if it exists, is pretty much support for the existence of God.
No, you keep recounting stories that involve your personal inability or unwillingness to discover evidence for a prosaic cause for things you observe. Then you fill that gap by declaring -- with a similar lack of evidence -- that some god must be the cause of it. It's the default, not the result of a careful evaluation of evidence. Someone who doesn't already believe in a god will simply not apply the same default. Or any default, as most skeptics are content to leave something unexplained where evidence is not forthcoming.

Further, we have noted that you frequently overstate your expertise and knowledge. The resort to the default is more credible when one believes one has methodically and skillfully exhausted all alternatives. Your ability to do that in any given case is hampered by that delusion. That is, your ability to comprehend what might be a natural cause is undermined by your ignorance of nature.

Finally, we have noted that even when it would be easy to test whether a prosaic cause is in play, you are reluctant to do so. This suggests your predilection for a supernatural cause, in that you wish to leave the question unanswered so that you can persist in a belief in the supernatural and use your anecdotes as a circular justification. So when you recount all these various anecdotes, it seems that you wish us to be similarly disinterested in the investigation so that we will give them the same evidentiary weight that you do. That is simply not going to happen.

Quote:
And do not accuse me of lying.
You have been accused of lying only when there is evidence for it. And that has occurred often enough that your general credibility is very low. You have demonstrated that you will simply lie over and over again when it suits your purpose. While I have no evidence that you are lying in this case, your unspoken demand that we diagnose your automotive observations and discover a mechanical cause is predicated on you having accurately, completely, and dispassionately reported all the relevant facts. And, if anyone desires to pursue the matter, it requires you to continue to be accurate and honest no matter how close someone with expertise in auto mechanics gets to the solution. In the past, that proximity has led to lies from you in the form of changing the story to suddenly make it harder to solve. None of your critics would be faulted for not taking the bait, or taking your stories at face value.

But in general it means that no one will accept your anecdotes as proof of anything. You're the one who destroyed your credibility. Therefore it's no one's fault but yours that your stories prove nothing to anyone else.
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Old 18th December 2020, 11:45 AM   #2540
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
It indicates that the military are aware of the harm that microwaves can do.
Except that the article conflates two dissimilar concepts. And since you don't know what you're talking about, you didn't pick up on it. The military use of pulsed microwave energy to fry the electronics of sophisticated enemy equipment and munitions has nothing to do with what is suspected to have occurred in Havana. This is what happens when you get your "science" from journalists and pretend this makes you an expert.

You lost your court case because you don't understand radio frequency energy, not because your legal opponents were invariably evil and the judges were corrupt. As Pixel42 keeps pointing out, all your woes come down to evidence. You need it if you want to convince anyone else of anything. But you don't have any of it. And it does you no good to whine that whatever you want to substitute for evidence on any given day doesn't convince other people. Your "expert" opinion certainly doesn't get the job done.
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Old 18th December 2020, 02:45 PM   #2541
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Q: Is the prophetic power of the Magic 8-Ball as good as that of Tarot cards?
Magic 8-Ball replies: Yes.

Definitive and needs no interpretation.
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Old 18th December 2020, 04:50 PM   #2542
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Your continued reference to "dumb matter" is a straw man. And yes, we've resolved this for you many times. Your unwillingness to accept the answer doesn't mean you get to claim you've stumped the atheists.
As near as I can tell, PS puts "dumb" in front of "matter/energy" as a sort of special-pleading modifier that lets him escape the implications of emergent properties- if matter is dumb, it can't, by definition, result in any combination that has intelligence, because it's dumb, and that's all there is to it, that assigned quality is all the limit he needs. It's the same tactic he uses with his "Infinite Intelligence"- his idea that intelligence needs an intelligence to beget it doesn't apply to the Infinite Intelligence simply by virtue of sticking "Infinite" in front of "Intelligence." It isn't turtles all the way down if he can just define one of them as special by a quality that is necessary to his hypothesis, but not otherwise justified.

You also gotta love a "hypothesis" that can't be falsified- every single thing that happens can be seen as evidence that it's right, and, AFAICT, there is nothing that could be evidence that it's wrong. Lost a court case he thinks he should have won, but didn't have to pay as much in fees? Losing didn't matter, it's how much he didn't lose by- there's no "either/or" metric, everything is grist for the mill.
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Old 18th December 2020, 05:03 PM   #2543
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Perhaps PS’s matter is a misspelling of mater.

It’s probably hereditary.
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Old 19th December 2020, 02:46 AM   #2544
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
I don’t need to imagine a purpose for the universe.
That is a debate stopper. Why are you on this forum?

I thought it was for thinking people who seek truth and meaning to their lives. You are doing what atheists accuse believers of doing - accepting the status quo without question.

When you ask a question like
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Let me hear your explanation for why "dumb" matter/energy has the attributes for intelligence life (humankind) to emerge?
you are begging the question because you are assuming that there is a “why”.
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Old 19th December 2020, 02:56 AM   #2545
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Sorry but his statement IS a debate stopper. He refuses to deal with the question I posed. Instead of thinking differently to me he chooses not to think at all.

I think you need to review the question I posed.

I addressed the question you asked, which begged the question by presupposing a purpose behind the evolution of intelligence. As far as I’m concerned there isn’t one, and one isn’t needed.
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Old 19th December 2020, 03:43 AM   #2546
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
As Pixel42 keeps pointing out, all your woes come down to evidence. You need it if you want to convince anyone else of anything.
In truth, of course, he should need it to be convinced himself. But I don't think he will ever understand, let alone acknowledge, that simple fact.
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Old 19th December 2020, 08:28 AM   #2547
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Perhaps PS’s matter is a misspelling of mater.

It’s probably hereditary.
You mean like saying one thing, but meaning your mother?

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Old 19th December 2020, 10:28 AM   #2548
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The odds of Biden dying in the first year based solely on his age appear to be 20:1. In the first month, it is possibly 12 times this, so 240:1. Those are long odds. But insurance companies want a full medical history as well as a current medical. How fit and well is Biden. He may just stumble and fall off the stage.

I do not wish it on him so I have to wish that I am wrong. I think it would be more interesting to have him alive to answer questions about his dealings involving his son Hunter.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/opini...hwe-story.html
Good. Unlike your other prophecies that I'm aware of, this one doesn't align with probabilities / prevailing wisdom.

I also have a prediction: When Biden is inaugurated, you'll try to weasel out by pointing back at the hedges you planted.

As for your claim that you don't lie and the counter claims that followed -- I was tempted to post in your defense, based on delusionality <> lying. But then I remembered...

You were crowing about your prediction that Trump would win the nomination in 2016. I pointed out that your prediction came at a time when he was the runaway favorite. And I listed the many primaries he had won at that point. You blithely denied that unambiguous reality.

Another example of you crowing over BS predictions, and denying reality when presented with non ambiguous debunking, can be seen here.

Fine, I'm willing to chalk those up to poor memory and/or delusion. But when you're presented with blatant, non-ambiguous facts that expose the predictions as absurdities, you deny reality. At that point, you're flat out lying.
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Old 19th December 2020, 01:16 PM   #2549
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
This is a multi-subject thread. Or do you set the rules?

The site come up yesterday. It indicates that the military are aware of the harm that microwaves can do. After initial publications, most military scientists keep quiet about it.

Not the phrasing:
"A committee of 19 experts in medicine and other fields concluded that directed, pulsed radiofrequency energy is the “most plausible mechanism” to explain the illness, dubbed Havana syndrome."

Once more, there is no other explanation. If we did not have the microwave explanation we would have to start considering "voodoo curses".
I watch Sabine Hossenfelder on youtube as she's kind of hot and I learn things.

She talked about 5G recently and when I watched it I thought it might interest you,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBsP...neHossenfelder

there seems to be a wee bit of an open question on over time.

Last edited by p0lka; 19th December 2020 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 19th December 2020, 04:21 PM   #2550
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
You mean like saying one thing, but meaning your mother?

Your momma!!
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Old 20th December 2020, 07:20 AM   #2551
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A real mystery? Especially since no-one is prepared to compare cell phone radiation levels and exposure, like I did. My theory holds, but the cell industry will only let it be told by "tin-hatter" like me. As I predicted, it will take years for the link to be made. Only when it becomes way too obvious.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-55333126

"It's a real scientific mystery," said Dr Mutevedzi. "I think it's a real possible scientific theory that [because] these crowded areas have always been prone to disease and had high infection rates so maybe that has somehow prevented them from having severe Covid-19 or from actually being infected with Covid."

She played down the impact of government restrictions, saying that, in practice, there had been "no lockdown" in much of Soweto since people had often struggled to adhere to the rules.

"The mortality is lower here. Something has to explain it. Many people live in quite crowded settings and one theory is that pre-existing antibodies to other coronaviruses are cross-reacting," said Prof Helen Rees, a prominent vaccine expert at Wits University.
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Old 20th December 2020, 07:37 AM   #2552
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Ouch. God is really cracking down. Xmas in Europe being locked down due to a new variant that is ultra-infectious.

We are now seeing that strain here. We have family and friends that have just welcomed their children and grandchildren from the UK and Germany. They are quite scared of this virus, and at a birthday party for one set of friends at a restaurant everyone started out with masks but by the end no-one had mask.

I have heard of more Covid cases. All office workers. In the WiFi areas.

My wife's sister has now declined the Xmas eve traditional dinner. She says that the UK visitors to some of the family worry her. She has asthma. She asked how much my CPAP and Oxygen machines cost because she was thinking of buying them for herself. We said we would lend her if she needed them.

Remember the cards said that there would be a wave, then a lull and then another wave. I thought that the second wave would be much more deadly and only come after the first wave was almost eliminated. So I am not sure that this "second wave" is the one predicted by the Tarot cards. Maybe just confirmation that we will see a really disastrous one next year after the vaccinations.

I read up how these vaccines work. RNA and DNA manipulation. Hmm. New techniques with untried long-term effects. I will be refusing any vaccine. Instead of a "disabled" infected cell, they make a body cell develop spike proteins. The body cell then gets killed. Can this lead to a run-away immune reaction? Or other unforeseen effects? After all, science says it does not really know how the killer T-cells work.
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Old 20th December 2020, 08:05 AM   #2553
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
I watch Sabine Hossenfelder on youtube as she's kind of hot and I learn things.

She talked about 5G recently and when I watched it I thought it might interest you,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBsP...neHossenfelder

there seems to be a wee bit of an open question on over time.

Nice-looking yes. Kinda nasal and dead-pan.

My take.

I had to force myself to listen to the standard Telco propaganda. Stuff for six-year olds. Not even an indirect mention of the indirect effects. All she dealt with were the ionization and heating. Not one scientific opponent of cellular emfs is concerned with these effects. Basically - so what? We know about them. They are not a problem. Which is why nearly all Telco-friendly studies involve these two areas so that they do not observe harm.

How about the pulsed effect on the ion channels of living cells? The disturbance causes an unbalance of ROS (Reactive Oxygen Species), and this CAN cause DNA damage. But even without DNA damage the interference with the inter-cellular signalling mechanisms causes many problems in a functional living organism. These problems then manifest as real physical medical problems. A very wide range of seemingly unrelated problems.

But you can take the Blue Pill (the psychological propagandist Kool-Aid) if it reassures you and helps you sleep at night.
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Old 20th December 2020, 08:26 AM   #2554
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Ouch. God is really cracking down. Xmas in Europe being locked down due to a new variant that is ultra-infectious.
Demonstrate that any god is involved.

You cannot. Fail.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
We are now seeing that strain here. We have family and friends that have just welcomed their children and grandchildren from the UK and Germany.
How stupid. Those are super spreaders. Through ignorance, they are spreading the disease.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
They are quite scared of this virus, and at a birthday party for one set of friends at a restaurant everyone started out with masks but by the end no-one had mask.
What fools.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I have heard of more Covid cases. All office workers. In the WiFi areas.
You still have not learned that correlation<>causation.

Unsurprising.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
My wife's sister has now declined the Xmas eve traditional dinner. She says that the UK visitors to some of the family worry her. She has asthma.

She asked how much my CPAP and Oxygen machines cost because she was thinking of buying them for herself. We said we would lend her if she needed them.
How dare she protect her health. Most inconsiderate, right?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Remember the cards said that there would be a wave, then a lull and then another wave. I thought that the second wave would be much more deadly and only come after the first wave was almost eliminated.
The second wave was predicted by science, not stupid tarot cards, and it is exacerbated by the morons who refuse to observe appropriate precautions.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
So I am not sure that this "second wave" is the one predicted by the Tarot cards. Maybe just confirmation that we will see a really disastrous one next year after the vaccinations.
No. Just no.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I read up how these vaccines work. RNA and DNA manipulation. Hmm. New techniques with untried long-term effects.
That is a misunderstanding on many levels.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I will be refusing any vaccine.
Then you will be intentionally keeping the virus going. That is disgusting.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Instead of a "disabled" infected cell, they make a body cell develop spike proteins. The body cell then gets killed. Can this lead to a run-away immune reaction? Or other unforeseen effects? After all, science says it does not really know how the killer T-cells work.
That is not how vaccines work.

This level of ignorance is why the virus will be prolonged.
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Old 20th December 2020, 11:27 AM   #2555
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
A real mystery? Especially since no-one is prepared to compare cell phone radiation levels and exposure, like I did.
Except that you can't demonstrate to any standard of proof that you know what you're talking about.

Quote:
My theory holds, but the cell industry will only let it be told by "tin-hatter" like me.
Your theory doesn't hold unless you have evidence to show that it does. We tried to help you collect that evidence, but you demonstrated you weren't interested. The problem is not that you're a tin-hatter and therefore unlikely to be believed, and therefore that's why you're "allowed" to tell it. The problem is that you don't have any evidence, and you aren't interested in getting any, and you won't shut up about your theory.

Quote:
As I predicted, it will take years for the link to be made.
How many years? Give us an actual year.
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Old 20th December 2020, 11:32 AM   #2556
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Ouch. God is really cracking down.
There's no evidence a god is responsible for anything here.

Quote:
I have heard of more Covid cases. All office workers. In the WiFi areas.
Anecdote. Does not establish a correlation between wifi and COVID.

Quote:
Remember the cards said that there would be a wave, then a lull and then another wave.
Because that's exactly how viruses tend to operate. "The cards" had nothing to do with it. We've already shown that your "gift" of prophecy tends to be you making ordinary predictions, attributing them to your Tarot ability, then changing your story as needed to make it seem true.

Quote:
I read up how these vaccines work.
No, you're not suddenly an expert in virology, immunology, and molecular biology.
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Old 20th December 2020, 11:39 AM   #2557
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
But you can take the Blue Pill (the psychological propagandist Kool-Aid) if it reassures you and helps you sleep at night.
We went through this at length. You are getting your "science" from anti 5G activists, not from actual scientists. No fringe reset for you.
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Old 20th December 2020, 12:27 PM   #2558
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
A real mystery? Especially since no-one is prepared to compare cell phone radiation levels and exposure, like I did. My theory holds, but the cell industry will only let it be told by "tin-hatter" like me. As I predicted, it will take years for the link to be made. Only when it becomes way too obvious.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-55333126

"It's a real scientific mystery," said Dr Mutevedzi. "I think it's a real possible scientific theory that [because] these crowded areas have always been prone to disease and had high infection rates so maybe that has somehow prevented them from having severe Covid-19 or from actually being infected with Covid."

She played down the impact of government restrictions, saying that, in practice, there had been "no lockdown" in much of Soweto since people had often struggled to adhere to the rules.

"The mortality is lower here. Something has to explain it. Many people live in quite crowded settings and one theory is that pre-existing antibodies to other coronaviruses are cross-reacting," said Prof Helen Rees, a prominent vaccine expert at Wits University.
Interesting. So your god doesn't want to kill billions of people then, like you said he did?
Thanks for disproving (one of) your own claims.
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Old 20th December 2020, 12:33 PM   #2559
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Ouch. God is really cracking down. Xmas in Europe being locked down due to a new variant that is ultra-infectious.

We are now seeing that strain here. We have family and friends that have just welcomed their children and grandchildren from the UK and Germany. They are quite scared of this virus, and at a birthday party for one set of friends at a restaurant everyone started out with masks but by the end no-one had mask.
Have you told them that they deserve to die, and that you will sit back and watch them?
You must be great company at Christmas.....


Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I have heard of more Covid cases. All office workers. In the WiFi areas.
So offices cause Covid infection? Is it the chairs? The desks?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
My wife's sister has now declined the Xmas eve traditional dinner. She says that the UK visitors to some of the family worry her. She has asthma. She asked how much my CPAP and Oxygen machines cost because she was thinking of buying them for herself. We said we would lend her if she needed them.
Then you are disobeying your god. Let them die, It's what he wants, right?


Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Remember the cards said that there would be a wave, then a lull and then another wave. I thought that the second wave would be much more deadly and only come after the first wave was almost eliminated. So I am not sure that this "second wave" is the one predicted by the Tarot cards. Maybe just confirmation that we will see a really disastrous one next year after the vaccinations.
No, I don't remember that. Can you quote the post where you said that?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I read up how these vaccines work. RNA and DNA manipulation. Hmm. New techniques with untried long-term effects. I will be refusing any vaccine. Instead of a "disabled" infected cell, they make a body cell develop spike proteins. The body cell then gets killed. Can this lead to a run-away immune reaction? Or other unforeseen effects? After all, science says it does not really know how the killer T-cells work.
I'll leave this to the scientists. However, I will note that, if these pesky vaccines stop the pandemic, your god (and by extension, you) are going to look a bit (more) stupid.
Are you now switching, as so many other conspiracy theorists are, to a claim that the vaccine will have as-yet-unspecified but definitely lethal side effects? On what are you basing this?
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Old 22nd December 2020, 08:10 AM   #2560
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I am committed to delivering the prophecies of the Magic 8-Ball exactly as they appear, even though I may not personally agree with them.

I do not consult it every day. One must never irritate the controlling powers of the Magic 8-Ball. But about once a week is okay.

Today's question: "Magic 8-Ball, are those who profess belief in the predictive power of tarot cards sincere?"

Magic 8-Ball sez: "Reply hazy. Ask again later."
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