ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Jeffrey Epstein , satanic conspiracies

Reply
Old Yesterday, 11:19 AM   #401
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 17,475
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Scientists saw him as dumb and shallow, or so they say now, and apparently went along with him because he had money and influence and they, in areas other than science, would appear to have been dumb and shallow in their own ways. Look how scientists and institutions are backpedalling now from their greedy feeding at the Sackler trough.

As for financial acumen, who knows? Maybe he was just lucky, or his skills were limited. Like the proverbial hedgehog, he did not have to know everything if he knew one thing well. And in the financial world you don't actually even have to know one thing well if you are lucky. Look at the financial crisis a few years ago. It was fueled largely by people whose overall ignorance was hidden by luck, unaware or unconcerned that they were essentially playing russian roulette.

The world is full of people who have skills and abilities in one area and are fools in others. I think you underestimate the degree to which a person with a certain form of cleverness can snow others, and the degree to which people, when they see a crowd, will simply join it. Now after the fact, after it's unfashionable to be associated with him, everyone says what a shallow fool Epstein was, but when it was fashionable, they were in the line.
I don't buy it. That's like claiming you can be a successful oncology surgeon with zero training. Why, you just need the chutzpah. No. I doesn't work like that. I suspect the US is similar to the UK. You are not even allowed to sign off a plc's accounts unless you are chartered. To become chartered you have to pass a whole bunch of mind-bending exams. A typical course will set you back 20K (or rather, your employers) and you don't get the designation without proving a minimum of three year's senior management work experience. My Oxford educated B-i-L paid 46K for his MBA. No there is no way you will make a killing of 550m as an investment banker without serious qualifications. Epstein had none at all. A friend of mine who works at a top investment bank as a broker had a first class from Imperial college (England's top uni) plus the requisite MBA and Banking exams. There is no way you can just blag your way through it. Wexner handed over Power of Attorney to Epstein together with control of all his wealth. Why? It is not because he liked him Honestly.
__________________
Do you curse where you come from, Do you swear in the night
Will it mean much to you, If I treat you right.
Do you like what you're doing, Would you do it some more
Or will you stop once and wonder
What you're doing it for. ~ Nick Drake
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 11:37 AM   #402
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 17,475
Originally Posted by The Common Potato View Post
If I were an incredibly wealthy, evil bloke, and trying to impress teenage girls, there are two chat up options. Would you a) Like a quicky in the local Travel Lodge? b) Come on holiday to my private island in the Caribbean?

Shameless name drop alert: I did sit opposite and chatted with Michael Spencer - said to be worth about 1.15B - a few years ago at a mutual friend's birthday lunch, so that might be my 'in' to middle aged debauchery. And the local Premier Inn is two minutes' walk from my home.
A clue might be his rich parents putting up the capital:

Quote:
Spencer was born in British Malaya. His father was an economist and international civil servant, his mother a linguist. During Spencer's early childhood, his family moved from his birth country to Sudan and then Ethiopia. Aged eight, he was sent to England to board, latterly at Worth Abbey Benedictine (OSB) School, Sussex. He read physics at Corpus Christi College, Oxford, after which he considered becoming an astrophysicist.[5]

Spencer is an Honorary Fellow of Corpus Christi and an Honorary Doctor of Loughborough University.[6][7]
ibid

In addition, being 'worth X bn' is not the same as having X bn.

Epstein didn't have a pot to p!ss in.

OK, so you want to do an Epstein. In your view you think it is just a question of 'chatting up some birds'. Perhaps you should write a letter to the POTUS.

"Dear Mr President Trump,

I was interested to note that you once ran an escort agency and might even have made an acquaintance with a Slovenian porn star. Therefore, I wa wondering if you might like to give some consideration to some potential escorts models I have to promote my boss' lingerie brand, Victoria's Secrets.

Next month I am running a promotional conference and audition fashion show of said lingerie. Please let m know if I can add you to the list of attendees.

Yours sincerely

The Common Potato

PS Bill Clinton will be there and perhaps even Dr Stephen Hawking.


Simples.
__________________
Do you curse where you come from, Do you swear in the night
Will it mean much to you, If I treat you right.
Do you like what you're doing, Would you do it some more
Or will you stop once and wonder
What you're doing it for. ~ Nick Drake
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 12:16 PM   #403
The Common Potato
Thinker
 
The Common Potato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: The Scunthorpe Problem
Posts: 138
Emojis are more important to understanding silliness than I realised.
The Common Potato is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 02:44 PM   #404
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 24,758
I think it's of some relevance to point out that as far as I can see Epstein was not an accountant, and the various positions he held did not require the kind of certification that accountants need, and at Bear Stearns, his lack of certification got him fired. You can read his bio as you like, but it looks to me like that of a very skillful crap artist, con man and blackmailer, and while some might think that for such a person to be successful for so long might require the help of dark organizations or powers, my dim view of human nature disagrees, and guesses that ordinary human cupidity and stupidity were sufficient.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 11:35 PM   #405
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 17,475
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I think it's of some relevance to point out that as far as I can see Epstein was not an accountant, and the various positions he held did not require the kind of certification that accountants need, and at Bear Stearns, his lack of certification got him fired. You can read his bio as you like, but it looks to me like that of a very skillful crap artist, con man and blackmailer, and while some might think that for such a person to be successful for so long might require the help of dark organizations or powers, my dim view of human nature disagrees, and guesses that ordinary human cupidity and stupidity were sufficient.
AFAICS the only person Epstein swindled was Wexner and even that seems questionable given Wexner handed over control of all his wealth to him. So he was not a Madoff figure. I cannot see how anyone was conned by him.

Oh well, I guess the mystery has died with him.
__________________
Do you curse where you come from, Do you swear in the night
Will it mean much to you, If I treat you right.
Do you like what you're doing, Would you do it some more
Or will you stop once and wonder
What you're doing it for. ~ Nick Drake
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:02 AM   #406
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,805
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
No, that is not my position at all.



Denying that occult practices exist is ignorant IMV.
Denying that occult practices exist is yet another straw man argument from you.

How about some evidence of these occult practices in this case? So far all we have from you is satanic panic.

This thread is about whether Epstein ran a secret satanic cult, whether in earnest or as an affectation. It's not about whether satanism exists nor about the crimes Epstein was actually charged with.

So, how about some evidence to support your proposition?
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:30 AM   #407
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,805
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
...

It seems Epstein and Maxwell were connected to Mossad.
It seems someone is selling a book claiming Epstein and Maxwell were connected to Mossad.

That's not exactly the same thing.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:55 AM   #408
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,805
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
... There is such a thing as good and evil otherwise our brains would not have evolved to be wired to such concepts...
No. There is an evolutionary benefit to thinking there is right and wrong, fair and unfair, praiseworthy and shameful, since these drive behaviours which benefit the group. These are not evidence of some external phenomenon embodying "good" or "evil", that's just a fairytale byproduct of our continuously upgraded monkey brains.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:47 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.