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Old 12th July 2006, 08:18 PM   #1
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Is Israel at war?

Israel Hits Lebanon After Troops Snatched


Israel bombed and shelled southern Lebanon and sent ground troops over the border for the first time in six years Wednesday after Hezbollah guerrillas captured two Israeli soldiers. The fighting killed eight Israeli soldiers and three Lebanese.

Hezbollah's brazen cross-border raid opened a second front for the Israeli army. The army is now fighting Islamic militants in both Lebanon and the Gaza Strip, where it is looking for another soldier who was captured more than two weeks ago by Hamas-linked militants.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert called the Hezbollah raid an "act of war" by Lebanon and threatened "very, very, very painful" retaliation. The Cabinet, meeting in the wake of the military's highest daily death toll in four years, decided to continue the army operation and call on the international community to disarm Hezbollah, according to participants.

Residents of northern Israeli towns were ordered to seek cover in underground bomb shelters as Hezbollah, an anti-Israel guerrilla group that essentially runs southern Lebanon, launched rockets across the border throughout the day.
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Old 12th July 2006, 08:22 PM   #2
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Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah said he would free the Israeli soldiers only in a prisoner swap, adding that he was open to a package deal that would include the release of the soldier held in Gaza.

"The capture of the two soldiers could provide a solution to the Gaza crisis," he told reporters in Beirut.
Under what theory? How the hell do you solve your problem of a kidnapped soldier by kidnapping more soldiers? How would this help Israel belay fears that acceding to kidnappers demands won't encourage more kidnapping?
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Old 12th July 2006, 08:36 PM   #3
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It's been more or less at war for years. It's just getting worse, now.
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Old 12th July 2006, 08:48 PM   #4
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RandFan, the short answer to your topic question --- "no"

Since September 1, 2003, the Israeli government has considered itself engaged in "all-out-war"
against islamic terrorists (specifically HAMAS).

The real address for action against Hezbollah is Damascus and Tehran. The Israelis are throwing their weight around in Lebanon, and it will get them nowhere. It will get them less than nowhere, actually, as the palestinians are thrilled at the prospect of a wider confrontation, and are handing out sweets in the streets in celebration of the raid and cheering the subsequent high-trajectory projectile bombardments now underway against Israel.


Two things are in advanced stages of preparation right at the moment, and one is a long-range attack into Iran itself to demolish the nuclear enrichment facilities; the second operation is to target Khaled Mashaal and make sure he doesn't escape this time.

Both of these high-profile missions would go a long way to prove the seriousness of Israel in not standing still for the type of actions that Iran and HAMAS are mutually instigating currently.

Blowing up bridges and buildings in gaza and lebanon is a waste of munitions. It is not 'war' --- it is the IDF flexing muscles.
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Old 12th July 2006, 08:51 PM   #5
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Here's an interesting article on the possible Iranian involvement in the last few days kidnappings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/13/wo...rtner=homepage

Not a good sign for things to come.

*sigh* I think I'll go and watch some "Seinfeld", this is really depressing.
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Old 12th July 2006, 08:53 PM   #6
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God, I really hate the middle east.
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Old 12th July 2006, 08:57 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
God, I really hate the middle east.
Amen to that
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Old 12th July 2006, 09:19 PM   #8
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Whenever is israel NOT at war?

When you have a bunch of people who want to genocide you, you always are at war.

But it's all "the occupation"'s fault--as we all know, idyllic peace reigned in the area before israel decided for no reason, in 1967, to start a three-front-war with an enemy outnumbering its population about 100 to 1.

Makes sense to me...
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Old 12th July 2006, 09:27 PM   #9
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I came across this Israeli blog tonight. Don't know anything about it. The guy did a time line of the day as he heard about events. Don't know if he'll keep doing it.

Just thought some might be interested in his take on things.
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Old 12th July 2006, 09:34 PM   #10
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They'll be cranking up that Rapture Index for all they're worth now.
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Old 12th July 2006, 09:37 PM   #11
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It's probably time to reorder the words in the title of this thread.

IAF Strikes Beruit Int'l Airport

Quote:
Officials have closed Beirut International Airport after Israeli warplanes struck runways in the Lebanese capital's Hezbollah-controlled southern suburbs, The Associated Press reported.

Lebanese Broadcasting Corporation showed video of plumes of black smoke, rising from explosions at Beirut International Airport Thursday morning.

Journalist Anthony Mills reported hearing fighter jets, explosions and anti-aircraft fire in the area of the airport.

Mills said Lebanese media was reporting that two of the airport's runways had been hit and that officials had closed the airport.
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Old 12th July 2006, 09:44 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
Whenever is israel NOT at war?
Ok, but is this a marked or significant change in that war?
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Old 12th July 2006, 11:13 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Ok, but is this a marked or significant change in that war?
This definitely qualifies as an escalation of the conflict.
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Old 13th July 2006, 03:10 AM   #14
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Israel enforces air and naval blockade against Lebanon

Quote:
Israel on Thursday imposed a sea and air blockade on Lebanon to cut off supply routes to Lebanese militants, the Israeli military said.

Earlier Thursday, Israeli aircraft bombed Beirut's international airport.

The army later said Israel has also imposed a naval blockade on its northern neighbor to cut off the supply of weapons to the Lebanese guerrilla group Hezbollah via Syria. Israel maintains Hezbollah is financed and equipped by Iran, with backing by Syria.
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Old 13th July 2006, 04:08 AM   #15
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Israel has been at war since 1948. If it wasn't the Egyptians it was the Syrians or the Lebanese or the Palestinians....

Hamas is the ruling party of the Palestinian Authority...ergo, technically the Palestinian Authority - through Hamas's actions - declared war on Israel. Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government...ergo, technically the Lebanese government - through Hezbollah's actions - declared war on Israel. That is how I view the situation. If part of any government is sponsoring attacks inside Israel - with malice aforethought - then said government is responsible for those actions. Period, end of story.

Today Lebanon is going back 20 years in time as Israel bombs Beirut's international airport and closes off access by air, land and sea. See enough is enough...enough Hamas and enough Hezbollah.

If Arabs - Palestinians and Lebanese - want to elect internationally-recognized terrorist organizations who are on the great jihad and bent on destroying Israel then they will pay the price for such folly. Especially in a post 9-11 world. I have 0% patience for folks who elect terror organizations to run their governments.

F.Y.I. The current operation in Lebanon is dubbed Operation "Just Reward".

{edited to add}

Quote:
13/July/2006

Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has launched a fresh verbal attack on Israel by describing "Zionists" as the "most detested people" on the planet.
Quote:
12 July 2006

Leader of Hezbollah Hassan Nasrallah:

"We are not seeking escalation, we don't want to lead the region into war. However, if the Israeli enemy wants escalation, we are ready for the confrontation."

Last edited by zenith-nadir; 13th July 2006 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 13th July 2006, 04:42 AM   #16
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In related news, israel bombed the international airport in Beirut, and in retaliation Hizbullah threathens to bomb Haifa.

sigh.

I can see next week's news now, can't you?

"Earth was blown into two halves yesterday by israel, in retailiation to previous Hizbullah actions. In return, Hizbullah turned off the sun, and threathens to drink the sea unless the zionists..."
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Old 13th July 2006, 06:14 AM   #17
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1)Nameless yahoo blows himself up in a Sbarro's. 12 dead.

2)Israel fires missles into building to kill "top HAMAS leadership". 37 dead
Israel builds part of a wall.

3)Wall chokes off some Muslim communities. There shortages of everything. More nameless yahoos behead half a dozen people. The PLO and HAMAS just shrug shoulders. They say, "Oh...bummer."

4)Israel tries to kill nameless yahoos. Blows up baby food factory by accident. 95 dead.

5)Yahoos in 2 different countries kidnap Israeli troops. Leaders of those counties secretly giggle. "Hey, they blew up a baby food factory for Allah's sake! They deserve it."

6)Israel blows the hell out of civilian infrastructure in those countries. Kills many. Pisses of more.

..............

14) Israel remembers it has nuclear weapons.


*sigh*

Does anyone else feel like we are reading the "Butter Battle Book"?
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Old 13th July 2006, 06:39 AM   #18
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The definitive answer to the OP ----

"We are not at war, but we are in a very high volume crisis, and we have an intention to put an end to the situation here along the northern border," IDF Chief Of Staff Halutz told reporters Thursday.

Now here's the rub ----- Israel ain't gonna be releasing Sami Kuntar. That is a fairly certain point. So, what is it gonna take for the terrorists to back down and go ahead and return the captured soldiers (this same question applies to Cpl. Gilad Shalit)?

Last edited by webfusion; 13th July 2006 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 13th July 2006, 06:42 AM   #19
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I don't think the kidnapped soldiers will be released alive. (Sadly I suspect Shalit has been dead for some time.)
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Old 13th July 2006, 06:46 AM   #20
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OK, so what will it take to have their bodies returned for burial?

Will the precedent of the previous incident now apply?
(see: http://www.israelnewsagency.com/idfi...eral10052.html )
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Old 13th July 2006, 06:53 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
OK, so what will it take to have their bodies returned for burial?

Will the precedent of the previous incident now apply?
(see: http://www.israelnewsagency.com/idfi...eral10052.html )
As an aside: I'm I reading that right - Israel used to negotiate and trade living people for bodies?

I can understand the families wanting the bodies back but for that to be a government's reasoning for action is irrational, a dead body is nothing once you remove the sentiment.
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Old 13th July 2006, 07:23 AM   #22
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Rocket attacks against Israel, IAF attacks Lebanese Air Force

Quote:
Later, Israeli warplanes blasted runways at the main army air base in eastern Lebanon near Syria's border Thursday, police said, an attack that could draw the Lebanese army into Israel's war with Hezbollah guerrillas.

Jets dropped two bombs on the runway at the Rayak air base in the eastern Bekaa Valley, damaging it, police said. There were no reports of casualties.

Hezbollah fired rockets into northern Israeli towns and said it was using a new missile that appeared to be more advanced than previous models. One Israeli was killed and at least 12 were injured.

The militant group also said it would rocket the key Israeli port city of Haifa if Israel hit Beirut, a strike that would be the deepest ever into Israel by the guerrillas - some 18 miles.
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Old 13th July 2006, 07:25 AM   #23
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yes, darat, you are reading that correctly.

401 palestinian prisoners were released on January 29th 2004.
The promise at the time was for Ron Arad to be accounted-for.

To this day, that has not happened.

It should be recalled that also on Jan 29 2004, at 9am, a palestinian terrorist exploded the #19 Egged bus in Jerusalem, killing 11 innocent passengers.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive...0Jerusalem%20-

I remember that day well. It was surreal ---- in the morning, a palestinian terrorist acted, in the afternoon, palestinian terrorists were released to potentially perform more of the same.

I wonder how many of those 401 went ahead to perpetrate violent and deadly operations after their release? I would be curious to know...
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Old 13th July 2006, 08:19 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I don't think the kidnapped soldiers will be released alive. (Sadly I suspect Shalit has been dead for some time.)
/psychic

Yes, I sense that he is dead. They will find his body in a sandy area.

/
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Old 13th July 2006, 08:20 AM   #25
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Sounds like Israel is opening a can of whoop-ass on Lebanon (which is effectively Syria).
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Old 13th July 2006, 08:28 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
Sounds like Israel is opening a can of whoop-ass on Lebanon (which is effectively Syria).
Sounds to me like Syria, Lebanon and the Palestinians are about to see exectly how good they've had it all these years. That goodwill love-in is over, folks, and it won't be back anytime soon. Welcome to the modern world of disproportionate response to asymmetrical warfare.
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Old 13th July 2006, 08:48 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by zenith-nadir View Post

F.Y.I. The current operation in Lebanon is dubbed Operation "Just Reward".
An upshot of this is that wikipedians have decided that there is now 2006 Arab-Israeli war. Coulde be a problem if israel attacks Iran.
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Old 13th July 2006, 09:06 AM   #28
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Unhappy The real question...

...When is is not?
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Old 13th July 2006, 10:01 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
Sounds like Israel is opening a can of whoop-ass on Lebanon (which is effectively Syria).
IMO (which is not very knowledgable of this conflit so this post might be total BS), Israel is walking straight into Iran's plan. Now Iran will think it has every right to attack Israel.

I think Israel should have restrained itself and asked for an international condemnation of Lebannon. But now it won't happen because Israel itself is in violation of international laws by attacking another country.
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Old 13th July 2006, 10:08 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
IMO (which is not very knowledgable of this conflit so this post might be total BS), Israel is walking straight into Iran's plan. Now Iran will think it has every right to attack Israel.

I think Israel should have restrained itself and asked for an international condemnation of Lebannon. But now it won't happen because Israel itself is in violation of international laws by attacking another country.
I tend to agree with your strategic assessment, but I don’t see how Israel is in violation of international law. Lebanon, in the form of Hezbollah, did attack first.
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Old 13th July 2006, 10:12 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
I think Israel should have restrained itself and asked for an international condemnation of Lebannon. But now it won't happen because Israel itself is in violation of international laws by attacking another country.
No, Lebanon attacked Israel through its proxy - Hezbollah. Israel has every right to do whatever it deems necessary IMO.
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Old 13th July 2006, 10:13 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
IMO (which is not very knowledgable of this conflit so this post might be total BS), Israel is walking straight into Iran's plan. Now Iran will think it has every right to attack Israel.
Iran has announced its intention to attack Israel many times, what is any different now?
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Old 13th July 2006, 10:17 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
No, Lebanon attacked Israel through its proxy - Hezbollah. Israel has every right to do whatever it deems necessary IMO.
Of course Lebanon's attack was unacceptable, but shouldn't Israel have waited for an international condemnation first?
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Old 13th July 2006, 10:20 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
Of course Lebanon's attack was unacceptable, but shouldn't Israel have waited for an international condemnation first?
As a strategic/PR tactic, maybe, but not by law.
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Old 13th July 2006, 10:24 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Iran has announced its intention to attack Israel many times, what is any different now?
Opportunity. You know the islamist mindset. They will attack when given the reason to retaliate to an attack even though they will never admit that this attack was their own doing in the first place.
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Old 13th July 2006, 10:31 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
IMO (which is not very knowledgable of this conflit so this post might be total BS), Israel is walking straight into Iran's plan. Now Iran will think it has every right to attack Israel.
Iran already thinks that. Iran already has the support of Syria.

Quote:
I think Israel should have restrained itself and asked for an international condemnation of Lebannon. But now it won't happen because Israel itself is in violation of international laws by attacking another country.
The "violations" are only called by the virulently anti-Israel UN, and they're called whether or not there's just cause. I don't blame Israel one bit for telling international opinion (through their actions) to get stuffed. You can't raise the heat on Israel because the heat's been on for decades, sometimes for doing nothing more than existing.

What you see today is the logical end to answering terrorism with "restraint." Sooner or later, the victim becomes the aggressor. Like a beaten wife, she will eventually decide she's had enough and slit his throat as he sleeps.

It will be quite interesting to see how much France and Russia back up their latest complaints. Putin, of all people, has no room to criticize a "disporportionate response."
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Old 13th July 2006, 10:48 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
An upshot of this is that wikipedians have decided that there is now 2006 Arab-Israeli war. Coulde be a problem if israel attacks Iran.
Since Iran isn't Arab, that shouldn't be a problem. You keep saying that about them, they're likely to use their new nukes on you.
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Old 13th July 2006, 10:56 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by KingMerv00 View Post
1)Nameless yahoo blows himself up in a Sbarro's. 12 dead.

2)Israel fires missles into building to kill "top HAMAS leadership". 37 dead
Israel builds part of a wall.

3)Wall chokes off some Muslim communities. There shortages of everything. More nameless yahoos behead half a dozen people. The PLO and HAMAS just shrug shoulders. They say, "Oh...bummer."

4)Israel tries to kill nameless yahoos. Blows up baby food factory by accident. 95 dead.

5)Yahoos in 2 different countries kidnap Israeli troops. Leaders of those counties secretly giggle. "Hey, they blew up a baby food factory for Allah's sake! They deserve it."

6)Israel blows the hell out of civilian infrastructure in those countries. Kills many. Pisses of more.

..............

14) Israel remembers it has nuclear weapons.


*sigh*

Does anyone else feel like we are reading the "Butter Battle Book"?
Talk about a one-sided viewpoint.

Far as I'm concerned, Isreal should turn loose the dogs of war and clean up this mess once and for all.

Last edited by Azure; 13th July 2006 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 13th July 2006, 10:58 AM   #39
Azure
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
Of course Lebanon's attack was unacceptable, but shouldn't Israel have waited for an international condemnation first?
Since when has the international community ever done anything to help Israel?
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Old 13th July 2006, 11:00 AM   #40
Pardalis
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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
Since when has the international community ever done anything to help Israel?
They helped to create it didn't they?
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