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Tags donald trump , US-North Korea relations

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Old 11th October 2017, 06:28 AM   #721
Regnad Kcin
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Monica Lewinsky?
While I find her quite physically attractive, it's hardly a secret President Pussy-grabber likes them younger, blonder and thinner.
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Old 11th October 2017, 01:17 PM   #722
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Latest headline: North Korea Says Trump has "Lit the Wick of War".

For some reason I keep reading that as "Lick the Whip of War".
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Old 11th October 2017, 01:18 PM   #723
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Latest headline: North Korea Says Trump has "Lit the Wick of War".

For some reason I keep reading that as "Lick the Whip of War".
I initially read it as "Little Wick of War", which seems particularly hilarious to me for some reason.
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Old 11th October 2017, 03:43 PM   #724
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Latest headline: North Korea Says Trump has "Lit the Wick of War".

For some reason I keep reading that as "Lick the Whip of War".
Whip the lip of war?



....let lip the dogs of war?
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Old 11th October 2017, 08:30 PM   #725
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Whip the lip of war?

....let lip the dogs of war?
Lick the lips of war.
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Old 12th October 2017, 03:52 PM   #726
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's the point: If North Korea has nuclear weapons, it can't be ignored. Not that it can be ignored, anyway, of course.
I'd expect diplomats and military types to stay abreast and do what they can to influence events, but the rest of us might as well ignore it. What we don't need is the US government making a big song-and-dance about something which is not about to get resolved. And what we particularly don't need, of course, is a US President vowing not to permit things which are practically inevitable and about which nothing can be done.
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Old 15th October 2017, 05:45 AM   #727
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Iím not sure if you really want a proper discussion, or just wish to psychologically transfer war-guilt from Germany to the USA, but here goes:

A couple of more-or-less hypothetical scenarios where Germany attacks Poland:
1) Germany is not under threat but attacks to expand its territory and then commits a systematic targeted genocide on civilians in the occupied area
2) Poland threatens to use WMDs against Berlin, leading Germany to launch a pre-emptive Ďdecapitationí strike against the opposing regimes political and military assets, with only collateral civilian casualties.

One of these scenarios is obviously heinous. The other is understandable. Itís sad that in 2017 some Germans still canít get this.
So by point 1 it's not ok for the US to attack North Korea and by point 2 it's ok for North Korea to launch a pre-emptive "decapitation" strike against the US?
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Old 15th October 2017, 09:17 PM   #728
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As easily as igniting a fart. And he could start a war with Russia or China just as easily.

That's why you want to elect a cool head to the presidency. That way, the cool head stands a better chance of prevailing.
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Old 16th October 2017, 02:22 AM   #729
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Sure. Just as not getting arrested gets a lot of murderers off. But it doesn't mean that convicted murderers are exectuted for having been arrested. They are executed for having committed murder.
Right.

Those thread participants who believe there exists no applicable international law, only national law, should acknowledge that Germany did nothing wrong during WW2 ans that the Nuremberg hangings were petty victors' revenge masquerading as trials under law.

And that likewise, Kim would be perfectly entitled to all sorts of shenanigans if only he refuses to accept as binding national law any international customary or treaty obligations.

Then the last Republican President was totally mistaken when argued war against Iraq is justified by Saddam breaking his obligations arising from UNSC resolutions, for such resolutions are meaningless unless adopted by Saddam into national law of Iraq. I am sure you can relate how you all protested the war then on those grounds!
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Old 16th October 2017, 05:27 AM   #730
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
It's just occurred to me that for all we know Trump's already tried to give the order and been talked down by Kelly/Mattis/Ivanka/other grownups in the WH. Perhaps more than once.
People at the White House have admitted that they spend all their time trying to contain the world's oldest toddler's tantrums and prevent him from doing something potentially disastrous. And they're already talking among themselves about using the 25th Amendment.

My answer to the thread title is no, not because he won't try, but because, when the time comes, it won't be something shocking that the necessary people scramble to try to figure out how to respond to. It's something they've been expecting and preparing for. Trump getting 25th'd out of office becomes a certainty at that point. (And if he never does go full Aerys Targaryen, this will be the main reason why.)
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Old 16th October 2017, 06:22 AM   #731
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Right.

Those thread participants who believe there exists no applicable international law, only national law, should acknowledge that Germany did nothing wrong during WW2 ans that the Nuremberg hangings were petty victors' revenge masquerading as trials under law.

And that likewise, Kim would be perfectly entitled to all sorts of shenanigans if only he refuses to accept as binding national law any international customary or treaty obligations.

Then the last Republican President was totally mistaken when argued war against Iraq is justified by Saddam breaking his obligations arising from UNSC resolutions, for such resolutions are meaningless unless adopted by Saddam into national law of Iraq. I am sure you can relate how you all protested the war then on those grounds!
Well, the person I was corresponding with is, I think, an anarchist who does not recognize any state legal systems as far as I can tell, and thinks of both national and international law as some kind of power game without any philosophical underpinning. Therefore, all "justice" is the exercise of power and nobody is truly guilty of anything. Or something along those lines.

I myself do recognize the existence of both national and international law. I am less worried about the posters' interpretation of it than I am about that of the US president and those in the chain of command in the US nuclear weapons systems. My reading of it is that those who serve there are those who would obey the orders to launch. And should they not, then they would be replaced by someone who would. That's one of the major reasons why electing Donald Trump as president was an extremely reckless act.
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Old 16th October 2017, 07:52 AM   #732
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More war games (exercises) begin today. I expect another missile firing by the end of the week.
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Old 16th October 2017, 08:35 AM   #733
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Right.

Those thread participants who believe there exists no applicable international law, only national law, should acknowledge that Germany did nothing wrong during WW2 ans that the Nuremberg hangings were petty victors' revenge masquerading as trials under law.

And that likewise, Kim would be perfectly entitled to all sorts of shenanigans if only he refuses to accept as binding national law any international customary or treaty obligations.

Then the last Republican President was totally mistaken when argued war against Iraq is justified by Saddam breaking his obligations arising from UNSC resolutions, for such resolutions are meaningless unless adopted by Saddam into national law of Iraq. I am sure you can relate how you all protested the war then on those grounds!
Drawing equivalence between Bush and Hitler? Disgusting.
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Old 16th October 2017, 08:39 AM   #734
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Drawing equivalence between Bush and Hitler? Disgusting.
He's not drawing equivalence between Bush and Hitler.

He is saying that if you don't agree with the concept of international law, then you cannot agree with Bush when he said Saddam Hussein was violating international law.
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Old 16th October 2017, 09:23 AM   #735
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Trump is dumb and crazy enough he might start WW3. But he is also easily manipulated and has decent people telling him what he should do with regards to national security, so I have some hope that he won't **** things up too badly.
Trump is neither dumb nor crazy. He's standing up to NK with a show of force that the commies can't match.
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Old 16th October 2017, 06:55 PM   #736
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This thread is not about Nazis. It's about Korea, Trump, and "is there gonna be a war soon?" His latest utterances do not inspire confidence. Saw a tweet in re Sec State Tillerson to which the punch line is "the negotiations will proceed until the first bomb drops." I was no amused.
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"Would you like to play a nice game of Chess?"
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Several former senior officers and William Perry offer insights into ways to prevent a crazy president from ending the world.
William Perry is pretty level headed. A good Sec Def.
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All the speculation is this thread illuminates, is that Trump is not alone, nor the most gifted, in posting rubbish on the internet.
Yeah, QFT.
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
It's just occurred to me that for all we know Trump's already tried to give the order and been talked down by Kelly/Mattis/Ivanka/other grownups in the WH. Perhaps more than once.
Possibly true. Mattis is part of the national command authority. That is why I sleep well at night.
Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Is it too much to ask that some comely intern step forward and give of herself in service to the cause of keeping the president happy and preoccupied?
Melania might be less willing to look the other way than a previous first lady. (But yeah, maybe that's what's needed. Does Donald have Tiger Woods on speed dial? Might be some phone numbers that need to be shared ...)
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Old 16th October 2017, 11:09 PM   #737
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
This thread is not about Nazis. It's about Korea, Trump, and "is there gonna be a war soon?"
Point taken. I won't be pursuing caveman's absurd theories any more.

Apologies!
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Old 17th October 2017, 11:01 AM   #738
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*Keeps checking thread but losing hope it will ever get back on topic of NK/Trump*
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Old 17th October 2017, 11:34 AM   #739
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
*Keeps checking thread but losing hope it will ever get back on topic of NK/Trump*
Any day now you can expect about 80 posts sent to AAH and 2 dozen yellow cards.
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Old 17th October 2017, 11:44 AM   #740
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
*Keeps checking thread but losing hope it will ever get back on topic of NK/Trump*
I tried...
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Old 17th October 2017, 11:53 AM   #741
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Any day now you can expect about 80 posts sent to AAH and 2 dozen yellow cards.
Or it could be split to a new thread about "winners/losers/war crimes...."

Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I tried...
I know you did, thanks for trying
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Old 17th October 2017, 05:18 PM   #742
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yeah, that was a good episode. From what I recall, the answer to the question - Is there anybody or any body with the power to override a president who orders a nuclear strike? - is "NO!"

This is also, from what I recall, brought up in the book, Command and Control by Eric Schlosser. Definitely worth reading!

But of course, this is by design. If nuclear weapons are needed to be fired there is no time for a deliberative body to convene and determine whether the threats are so great that nuclear weapons need to be deployed.

The only thing that can bring prevent a nuclear launch is disobedience in the chain of command, which obviously means that anyone who gives a hint of questioning the order is removed as happened to the protagonist in the Radiolab episode.
If the president and the SECDEF agree that we're under nuclear attack or an imminent attack they should have the ability to order an immediate launch. However, if the president wants to launch a first strike or preemptive attack, I have no problem with requiring congressional approval.
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Old 17th October 2017, 06:38 PM   #743
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
If the president and the SECDEF agree that we're under nuclear attack or an imminent attack they should have the ability to order an immediate launch. However, if the president wants to launch a first strike or preemptive attack, I have no problem with requiring congressional approval.
If a retaliatory strike takes two men, then there's a good chance it won't happen soon enough. Sometimes, the Secretary won't be readily available, no?

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Old 17th October 2017, 08:34 PM   #744
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
If a retaliatory strike takes two men, then there's a good chance it won't happen soon enough. Sometimes, the Secretary won't be readily available, no?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
If the world is at the brink of nuclear war, what else could possibly take priority over that?
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Old 18th October 2017, 06:58 AM   #745
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
If the world is at the brink of nuclear war, what else could possibly take priority over that?
The main concern, back in the day, was a surprise attack requiring immediate reaction. This was when we had faith that the guy in the White House would make well-reasoned decisions in matters so grave.

But even now, one could imagine situations in which the Secretary of Defense is briefly incommunicado, no? Maybe I don't appreciate the advances in communication enough. Perhaps such periods of isolation are a thing of the past.
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Old 18th October 2017, 07:23 AM   #746
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
The main concern, back in the day, was a surprise attack requiring immediate reaction. This was when we had faith that the guy in the White House would make well-reasoned decisions in matters so grave.
Sorry, when was that?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 18th October 2017, 07:47 AM   #747
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Sorry, when was that? ; )
It's what I keep trying to tell you: Trump isn't really all that special.
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Old 18th October 2017, 07:55 AM   #748
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's what I keep trying to tell you: Trump isn't really all that special.
Well, there have certainly been presidents in the past that people were very concerned about such as Nixon and Reagan (for reasons of suspected insanity and senility respectively, and for having declared an intention to use the nukes if only as a "joke"), and of course Kennedy who definitely was close to starting a nuclear war.

Trump being no different in that regard is not really that reassuring.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 18th October 2017, 03:47 PM   #749
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Trump is neither dumb nor crazy. He's standing up to NK with a show of force that the commies can't match.
Until they do match it. That was the mistake that the USSR made in the 80s.

Little Rocket Un has enough capability to be worrisome. The US has enough capability to deal with it but it costs a damned fortune. All he has to do is wait and keep ratcheting it up when he can.
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Old 18th October 2017, 11:24 PM   #750
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
If the president and the SECDEF agree that we're under nuclear attack or an imminent attack they should have the ability to order an immediate launch. However, if the president wants to launch a first strike or preemptive attack, I have no problem with requiring congressional approval.

As I have said upthread, this would entail abandoning the policy built on the premise of MAD. The idea that there wouldn't be time between an imminent attack and useful response to take the question to committee.

An entirely new system of protocols would need to be developed, based on a radically different envisioning of nuclear combat scenarios.

I'm not necessarily against that, but it is non-trivial. And more importantly, it is not the system we have right now. That's the one we have to worry about at this juncture.
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Old 19th October 2017, 09:13 AM   #751
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Mod WarningAll of the war crimes posts have been split to their own thread. Go post about that topic there.
Posted By:kmortis
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Old 26th October 2017, 04:47 PM   #752
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Democrats push bill to stop a Trump pre-emptive strike on North Korea
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...on-north-korea

Quote:
Congressional Democrats have introduced legislation aimed at preventing Donald Trump from launching a pre-emptive attack on North Korea, as concerns grew about the administrationís failure to explore talks with Pyongyang.

The ďNo Unconstitutional Strike against North KoreaĒ bill is the second legislative attempt to curtailís Trump power to start a war unilaterally. Earlier this year, a bill was introduced to prohibit the president from ordering a nuclear first strike against a foreign adversary without a declaration of war by Congress, amid concerns over Trumpís belligerent language, erratic behaviour and frequent tweeted threats against other countries.
Sighs of relief all round as we discover somebody's on the case and will sort it all out.
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Old 26th October 2017, 05:03 PM   #753
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
Democrats push bill to stop a Trump pre-emptive strike on North Korea
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...on-north-korea



Sighs of relief all round as we discover somebody's on the case and will sort it all out.
I wonder if this will have the opposite effect. How long before it is spun as Democrats being the defenders of North Korea. "Oh look, putting the D in DPRK!"
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Old 26th October 2017, 05:07 PM   #754
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If I were president, I'd be strongly tempted to sit down with my pen in one hand and the Football in the other. I'd push the button, sign the bill into law, and laugh all the way to the War Room.

"It wasn't a law yet, suckers!"
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Old 26th October 2017, 05:55 PM   #755
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I do think NK is going to take the first step soon, when The PDJT visits Asia. Hell, they might even target whereever he is, damn the consequences!
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Old 27th October 2017, 01:10 AM   #756
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I do think NK is going to take the first step soon, when The PDJT visits Asia. Hell, they might even target whereever he is, damn the consequences!
Really? First step as in lob a nuke?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 27th October 2017, 01:11 AM   #757
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If I were president, I'd be strongly tempted to sit down with my pen in one hand and the Football in the other. I'd push the button, sign the bill into law, and laugh all the way to the War Room.

"It wasn't a law yet, suckers!"
You'd start a nuclear war in order to troll Congress ?

Thank goodness you're not the President.
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Old 27th October 2017, 02:20 AM   #758
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I *think* theprestige is pointing up a major flaw in getting a bill restricting the sitting president's power, namely, the requirement for the same president signing it into law as opposed to simply vetoing it.

One calculation in nuclear weapons strategy is use-it or lose-it and when faced with losing the opportunity to blast North Korea, I would worry that it would increase the pressure to use the opportunity.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 27th October 2017, 06:26 AM   #759
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If I were president, I'd be strongly tempted to sit down with my pen in one hand and the Football in the other. I'd push the button, sign the bill into law, and laugh all the way to the War Room.

"It wasn't a law yet, suckers!"
Yes, today's "conservatives" and Trump do seem to be the type of people who would laugh at the murder of millions only because they get the chance to stick it to them libs.

Callous mother ****ers
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