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Tags Nicolas Maduro , Venezuela economy , Venezuela issues , Venezuela politics

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Old 23rd October 2017, 11:39 AM   #761
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Venezuelan crude has always been classified as sour (i.e. high sulfur content), so it's never been of prime quality. "High level of water, salt and metals" sounds like another kind of quality problem though.

If it's an equipment issue, nobody will sell them anything unless they pay up front.
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Old 25th October 2017, 11:29 AM   #762
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Awful video of the effects of malnutrition and a collapsing health-care system.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/25/health...ing/index.html

In the past famine has happened out of sight in places far away, and often we haven't known about it until after millions have already died. This one will be live-streamed on the internet. Will it make a difference? I hope so.
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Old 25th October 2017, 01:02 PM   #763
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Awful video of the effects of malnutrition and a collapsing health-care system.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/25/health...ing/index.html

In the past famine has happened out of sight in places far away, and often we haven't known about it until after millions have already died. This one will be live-streamed on the internet. Will it make a difference? I hope so.
CAPITALIST LIES AND PROPAGANDA!

There, I just gave you the response from the hard core Maduro Regime supporters.
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Old 25th October 2017, 01:27 PM   #764
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See, even Captain America understands. Interesting times we live in.
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Old 25th October 2017, 01:32 PM   #765
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A utopia it is
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Old 26th October 2017, 05:12 AM   #766
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Quote:
Iceland Blocks Shipment of Venezuela-bound Tear Gas

The Icelandic Ministry of Transport and Local Government has denied the European Transport Agency‘s request for permission to transport anti-riot gear to Venezuela, mbl.is reports.

The gear in question consists of 16 tons of tear gas from China. The Ministry couldn‘t accept the transfer due to areas in Venezuela not respecting human rights.
http://icelandreview.com/news/2017/1...bound-tear-gas
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Old 31st October 2017, 11:32 AM   #767
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A report from Amnesty International regarding the Venezuela government terrorizing it's citizens in response to protests.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents.../7285/2017/en/
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Old 2nd November 2017, 07:11 AM   #768
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New 100,000 Bolivar note = $2.50 US



Lol
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Old 2nd November 2017, 11:37 AM   #769
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
New 100,000 Bolivar note = $2.50 US



Lol
Lying pre$$titute scum! There is no hyper-inflation in Venezuela, just as their economy is not collapsing!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...g-to-venezuela
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Old 2nd November 2017, 11:48 AM   #770
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Another day, another make-believe election in Venezuela.
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Old 2nd November 2017, 03:55 PM   #771
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Here's a bit on that "survey by leading universities" the Anglo pre$$titutes and their resident parrots are mentioning all the time, including a link to the report.

Originally Posted by Jacob Wilson
[...] US newspapers and journals often attribute their Venezuelan hunger figures to “a recent survey … by the country’s leading universities.” The survey in question was published on February 27, 2016 by Simón Bolívar University, the Central University of Venezuela, and the Bengoa Foundation. The report, which focuses on Venezuelan nutrition, is part of an annual review covering the state of living conditions in the country. Maritza Landaeta-Jiménez, who as recently as 2013 was a member of the Venezuelan opposition’s Nutrition Commission, headed the 2016 research. The document, based on a survey of 6,413 Venezuelans, reported that 93 percent of Venezuelans felt that they did not have enough money to purchase food, and that 72.7 percent of Venezuelans had lost an average of 8.7 kilograms (19 pounds) in the past year. However, the same survey revealed that 67.5 percent of Venezuelans were eating three meals a day, and only 25 percent of the country felt that their nutrition could be categorized as “deficient.”

The two pairs of statistics tell different stories about the situation in Venezuela. The first pair ― 93 percent of the population lacking food money, and an average weight loss of 19 pounds for 73 percent of Venezuelans ― depicts a country in dire, humanitarian crisis. The second pair ― 67.5 percent of the population eating three meals a day, and only 25 percent feeling deficient in their nutrition ― shows a country that is struggling, but also coping with its economic and political stress. Given that these figures appear only pages apart from each other in a short report, any reader should have determined that the survey’s results are at best inconclusive, and at worst contradictory. (Three-quarters of the population is losing 19 pounds on average, but only 25 percent think they’re not getting enough food?)

Unfortunately, the results of the survey have not been questioned; quite the opposite. The English-speaking press has reported the 90-plus percent/19 pounds statistics so many times that they’ve apparently become facts that don’t require citation. Yet according to a broad LexisNexis search, the 25 percent deficient figure has never been reported in English-language newspapers. [...]
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Old 2nd November 2017, 03:58 PM   #772
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Oh and what, they're holding elections again? Strangest dictatorship ever.
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Old 2nd November 2017, 06:03 PM   #773
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Oh and what, they're holding elections again? Strangest dictatorship ever.
And they will run unopposed, as dictators do
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Old 2nd November 2017, 06:18 PM   #774
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
And they will run unopposed, as dictators do

Yup, like the recent surprise victory with 54% after they lost the parliamentary election before that. Just like dictators do...

The MUD clowns tried that boycotting stuff ten years ago or so already after nothing else worked. This time it seems only the duller and more ruthless fraction of the opposition will take part in that stunt, as the others know how the Venezuelans react and how little it matters what some Guardian reader in his arm chair "thinks".
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Old 2nd November 2017, 10:16 PM   #775
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
And they will run unopposed, as dictators do
No need. Just fake the numbers, then arrest any opposition candidate with the gall to complain. Fake economy, fake elections, fake media...
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Old 3rd November 2017, 03:55 AM   #776
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Socialism is amazing.

Has Naomi Klein responded yet?
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Old 3rd November 2017, 03:58 AM   #777
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
New 100,000 Bolivar note = $2.50 US



Lol
A Dutch journalist mentioned that he was in public toilet in Venezuela and found banknotes on the floor that had been used as toilet paper.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 04:30 AM   #778
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
A Dutch journalist mentioned that he was in public toilet in Venezuela and found banknotes on the floor that had been used as toilet paper.
It has a ways to go before it beats this:

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Old 4th November 2017, 10:14 AM   #779
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Here's a bit on that "survey by leading universities" the Anglo pre$$titutes and their resident parrots are mentioning all the time, including a link to the report.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Wilson
And who is Jacob Wilson?

He's the intern.

Originally Posted by cepr dot net
Jacob Wilson, International Program Intern
Jacob Wilson holds a B.A. in Mathematical Economics from Pomona College. He also studied economics at la Universidad de La Habana in Cuba. Before joining CEPR, Jacob worked in data integrity at Facebook. His research interests include U.S.-Latin America relations, U.S.-Middle East relations, and systemic inequality. He is also a frequent participant in economic justice, environmental justice, and peace campaign
http://cepr.net/about-us/staff/

So why would a California boy go to study economics at la Universidad de La Habana in Cuba? I don't know but his linkedin page has him standing in front of a big banner that reads "Revolution".

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jwilson47/

So an intern with a certain ideological inclination calls a university study that's seriously critical of a Marxist dictator "inconclusive", and in your mind that's reason enough to dismiss the study.

What's wrong with his argument?

"The two pairs of statistics tell different stories about the situation in Venezuela..."

No they don't. These are not different pairs of statistics from different studies. These are different data points within the same study. He's basically arguing that if you cherry-pick the data, you can come to a conclusion that's still pretty bad, but not as catastrophically bad as if you consider all the data.

Further, he's comparing hard data points to subjective data.

Hard data: How much weight was lost? The scales say an average weight loss of 19 lbs for 73% of those surveyed. That's a hard data point, not subject to opinion.

Do you have enough money to buy food? 93% say no. That's hard to argue with. 93% of people surveyed say they don't have enough money to buy food.

So he deals with it by ignoring it in favor of:

How many meals do you have a day? Answering three doesn't mean they are adequate meals. If you include the data on weight loss, you must conclude that for many, these meals are not adequate at all. You can call a half an apple with a slice of cheese a meal, but it doesn't meet your caloric and nutritional needs if most of your meals are that small.

Do you feel like you're getting adequate nutrition? The question isn't Are you eating enough? Getting adequate nutrition means consuming enough protein, vitamins and minerals to sustain your health. If your diet has shifted away from proteins, fruits and vegetables towards cheaper and easier to get carbohydrates, the effects on your health from increased instances of diabetes and obesity may not be realized for years to come, but the damage is being done now. Also if 25% feel like their nutrition is inadequate, how many are actually deficient?

This intern is a denier. His evaluation that ”67.5 percent of the population eating three meals a day, (meaning 32.5% don’t) and only 25 percent feeling deficient in their nutrition ― shows a country that is struggling, but also coping with its economic and political stress.” is pure denial. The truth is even those cherry-picked statistics indicate a nation in crisis, but he wants Marxism to succeed so badly his vision distorts and minimizes the crisis to just ”struggling, but also coping”.

Last edited by Mycroft; 4th November 2017 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 4th November 2017, 01:36 PM   #780
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Socialism is amazing.

Has Naomi Klein responded yet?
Nope. Nothing but silence.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...802-story.html
Quote:
The list of Western leftists who once sang the Venezuelan government’s praises is long, and Naomi Klein figures near the top.

In 2004, she signed a petition headlined, “We would vote for Hugo Chavez.” Three years later, she lauded Venezuela as a place where “citizens had renewed their faith in the power of democracy to improve their lives.” In her 2007 book, “The Shock Doctrine,” she portrayed capitalism as a sort of global conspiracy that instigates financial crises and exploits poor countries in the wake of natural disasters. But Klein declared that Venezuela had been rendered immune to the “shocks” administered by free market fundamentalists thanks to Chavez’s “21st Century Socialism,” which had created “a zone of relative economic calm and predictability.”
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:05 PM   #781
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
What's wrong with his argument?

"The two pairs of statistics tell different stories about the situation in Venezuela..."

No they don't. These are not different pairs of statistics from different studies. These are different data points within the same study.

Wilson (in the very part of the article I quoted): Given that these figures appear only pages apart from each other in a short report, any reader should have determined that the survey’s results are at best inconclusive, and at worst contradictory.

'Nuff said. I guess you have to do awkward stuff like this, or do you really think the readers are that stupid? Or is it the third possibility?
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:30 PM   #782
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Wilson (in the very part of the article I quoted): Given that these figures appear only pages apart from each other in a short report, any reader should have determined that the survey’s results are at best inconclusive, and at worst contradictory.

'Nuff said. I guess you have to do awkward stuff like this, or do you really think the readers are that stupid? Or is it the third possibility?
Right. He treats them as though they are different pairs of statistics from different studies. The correct way to treat them is as statistics from the same study (which they are) which combined give a complete picture and not as statistics that offer competing narratives.

Here, let me just repost what I posted earlier to save time:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Wilson
And who is Jacob Wilson?

He's the intern.

Originally Posted by cepr dot net
Jacob Wilson, International Program Intern
Jacob Wilson holds a B.A. in Mathematical Economics from Pomona College. He also studied economics at la Universidad de La Habana in Cuba. Before joining CEPR, Jacob worked in data integrity at Facebook. His research interests include U.S.-Latin America relations, U.S.-Middle East relations, and systemic inequality. He is also a frequent participant in economic justice, environmental justice, and peace campaign
http://cepr.net/about-us/staff/

So why would a California boy go to study economics at la Universidad de La Habana in Cuba? I don't know but his linkedin page has him standing in front of a big banner that reads "Revolution".

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jwilson47/

So an intern with a certain ideological inclination calls a university study that's seriously critical of a Marxist dictator "inconclusive", and in your mind that's reason enough to dismiss the study.

What's wrong with his argument?

"The two pairs of statistics tell different stories about the situation in Venezuela..."

No they don't. These are not different pairs of statistics from different studies. These are different data points within the same study. He's basically arguing that if you cherry-pick the data, you can come to a conclusion that's still pretty bad, but not as catastrophically bad as if you consider all the data.

Further, he's comparing hard data points to subjective data.

Hard data: How much weight was lost? The scales say an average weight loss of 19 lbs for 73% of those surveyed.

Do you have enough money to buy food? 93% say no.

How many meals do you have a day? Answering three doesn't mean they are adequate meals. If you include the data on weight loss, you must conclude that for many, these meals are not adequate at all. You can call a half an apple with a slice of cheese a meal, but it doesn't meet your caloric and nutritional needs if most of your meals are that small.

Do you feel like you're getting adequate nutrition? The question isn't Are you eating enough? Getting adequate nutrition means consuming enough protein, vitamins and minerals to sustain your health. If your diet has shifted away from proteins, fruits and vegetables towards cheaper and easier to get carbohydrates, the effects on your health from increased instances of diabetes and obesity may not be realized for years to come, but the damage is being done now. Also if 25% feel like their nutrition is inadequate, how many are [/i]actually[/i] deficient?

This intern is a denier. His evaluation that ”67.5 percent of the population eating three meals a day, (meaning 32.5% don’t) and only 25 percent feeling deficient in their nutrition ― shows a country that is struggling, but also coping with its economic and political stress.” is pure denial. The truth is even those cherry-picked statistics indicate a crisis, but he wants Marxism to succeed so badly his vision distorts and minimizes the crisis to just ”struggling, but also coping”.
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Old 5th November 2017, 04:27 PM   #783
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Repeating the prefacing ad hominem to your very basic factual "error" just made you look sillier.
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:10 PM   #784
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Here's a bit on that "survey by leading universities" the Anglo pre$$titutes and their resident parrots are mentioning all the time, including a link to the report.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Wilson
[...] US newspapers and journals often attribute their Venezuelan hunger figures to “a recent survey … by the country’s leading universities.” The survey in question was published on February 27, 2016 by Simón Bolívar University, the Central University of Venezuela, and the Bengoa Foundation. The report, which focuses on Venezuelan nutrition, is part of an annual review covering the state of living conditions in the country. Maritza Landaeta-Jiménez, who as recently as 2013 was a member of the Venezuelan opposition’s Nutrition Commission, headed the 2016 research. The document, based on a survey of 6,413 Venezuelans, reported that 93 percent of Venezuelans felt that they did not have enough money to purchase food, and that 72.7 percent of Venezuelans had lost an average of 8.7 kilograms (19 pounds) in the past year. However, the same survey revealed that 67.5 percent of Venezuelans were eating three meals a day, and only 25 percent of the country felt that their nutrition could be categorized as “deficient.”

The two pairs of statistics tell different stories about the situation in Venezuela. The first pair ― 93 percent of the population lacking food money, and an average weight loss of 19 pounds for 73 percent of Venezuelans ― depicts a country in dire, humanitarian crisis. The second pair ― 67.5 percent of the population eating three meals a day, and only 25 percent feeling deficient in their nutrition ― shows a country that is struggling, but also coping with its economic and political stress. Given that these figures appear only pages apart from each other in a short report, any reader should have determined that the survey’s results are at best inconclusive, and at worst contradictory. (Three-quarters of the population is losing 19 pounds on average, but only 25 percent think they’re not getting enough food?)

Unfortunately, the results of the survey have not been questioned; quite the opposite. The English-speaking press has reported the 90-plus percent/19 pounds statistics so many times that they’ve apparently become facts that don’t require citation. Yet according to a broad LexisNexis search, the 25 percent deficient figure has never been reported in English-language newspapers. [...]
I find it odd that in Wilson's critique, he paraphrases the report but doesn't actually quote it. I took the liberty of pulling up the report myself (if anyone's curious, it's here) and the most obvious problem, for this discussion, is that the report is in Spanish. Fortunately I have a close personal friend* who's quite fluent, and she helped me out.

Wilson quotes 2 statistics (67.5% and 25%) as conflicting with the more often-published figures.

First, his "67.5%" value for "eating three meals a day." "67,5" doesn't appear anywhere in the report. As far as we can tell, he's inferring that from a table that indicates what fraction of the population usually (suele) eats each meal (breakfast/desayuno, morning snack/Merienda en la mañana, etc). We're not sure how to get 67.5% from that table, but it adds up to an average of 2.62 meals per day (plus a fraction of a snack) per person, so we're thinking the 67.5% is roughly equivalent to the .62 in 2.62.

I think the word "usually" (suele) is making this table a lot less useful. If someone ate 3 meals a day for Sunday through Wednesday, and then fasted Thurs-Sat, they'd "usually" eat 3 meals a day, but they'd be averaging only 1.7 meals per day. I don't think one can look at that table and reasonably conclude that only 22.5% of the population is missing meals.

To be fair, though, I'm not sure that the better-known 86.3% figure (eating two or fewer meals per day) is quite what it seems, either. It's the second bullet below the weight loss table on page 17, and the first bullet says that those in extreme poverty have lost 9 kg (Las personas en pobreza extrema perdieron 9 Kg). It may be that the 2nd bullet is also referring to those in extreme poverty, in which case it would imply that 'only' 62.7% of the population was eating two or fewer meals. My wife read those bullets, too, and she thinks it refers to 86.3% of the total population, but she'd attribute at least some of that to the culture: even if food was plentiful, a lot of them would routinely skip breakfast.

Second, that 25% was the fraction that was "feeling deficient in their nutrition." That figure (actually, 24.9%) comes from the table on page 11, and the question was not "do you feel your nutrition is sufficient or deficient." Rather, it was more like "which of the following words best describes your nutrition?" The options were Sufficient (Suficiente), Balanced (Equilibrada), Varied (Variada), Monotonous (Monotona), and Deficient (Deficiente). 24.9% chose Deficient from that list. If one was cherry-picking, one could also read that table and say "only 14.2% felt that their nutrition was sufficient," though such a statement would be just as misleading as Jacob's interpretation. Frankly, it's a poorly-worded question because the options are not mutually-exclusive. One can easily have a sufficient-but-monotonous diet, for example, or a deficient-but-varied diet. But it's certainly not reasonable to conclude that, based on that table, "only 25 percent think they’re not getting enough food."

So, while I agree that, as one would expect, the English-language press has reported the most dramatic (and, therefore, attention-grabbing) numbers from the report, I don't think they've mischaracterized the contents of the report, and I disagree with Wilson that the report is obviously self-contradictory or even inconclusive.

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Old 5th November 2017, 05:22 PM   #785
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Thank you, dasmiller.

I tried to find an english version of the report and was unable to. I did look through the spanish version with the aid of of Google translate, but that wasn't very helpful.
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:22 PM   #786
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
So, while I agree that, as one would expect, the English-language press has reported the most dramatic (and, therefore, attention-grabbing) numbers from the report, I don't think they've mischaracterized the contents of the report, and I disagree with Wilson that the report is obviously self-contradictory or even inconclusive.

Thanks for looking into it and trying a serious critique. Three things (ftm):
  1. Wilson writes "[...] the survey’s results are at best inconclusive, and at worst contradictory", not "obviously self-contradictory".
  2. The 67.5% figure of people getting three meals a day is on page 15 pretty straight-forwardly, you must have overlooked it.
  3. The page 17 numbers for weight-loss are actually very interesting because they tell us something about the people taking part in the "survey".
    As you say, it says that those in extreme poverty lost 9 kg average. But in the first line it says that 72,7% of the participants lost weight, in average 8.7 kg.
    Those 72.7% of the participants are in total numbers 4665 of 6413 participants.
    So these are 4665*8.7kg total weight-loss, which amounts to 40.5855 tons.
    If we divide this by 9kg each participant living in extreme poverty lost, we see that 4509 and a half participant are living in extreme poverty (assuming for simplicity that all participants living in extreme poverty lost at least a gram of weight).
    Which tells us what?
    That apparently more than two thirds of the participants of that study live in extreme poverty, while the fraction of the Venezuelan society which does so, last time I've checked, was under 10% thanks to Chavismo. Maybe it's more now thanks to the recent economic war, but certainly nowhere near two thirds.
    If I made no general mistake in my late night observation (feel free to check), this discredits the "study" and the reporting about it much more than anything Jacob Wilson came up with.
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Old 5th November 2017, 08:28 PM   #787
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Thanks for looking into it and trying a serious critique. Three things (ftm):
[*]Wilson writes "[...] the survey’s results are at best inconclusive, and at worst contradictory", not "obviously self-contradictory".
I wrote that it wasn't "obviously self-contradictory or even inconclusive." It remains non-obvious to me that the report is either self-contradictory or inconclusive. I believe that Wilson implied that it was obvious that the report was either self-contradictory or inconclusive.

Quote:
[*]The 67.5% figure of people getting three meals a day is on page 15 pretty straight-forwardly, you must have overlooked it.
Fair enough; I simply missed that. Because the text is imbedded in a diagram, it didn't come up in the search

Quote:
[*]The page 17 numbers for weight-loss are actually very interesting because they tell us something about the people taking part in the "survey".
As you say, it says that those in extreme poverty lost 9 kg average. But in the first line it says that 72,7% of the participants lost weight, in average 8.7 kg.
Those 72.7% of the participants are in total numbers 4665 of 6413 participants.
So these are 4665*8.7kg total weight-loss, which amounts to 40.5855 tons.
If we divide this by 9kg each participant living in extreme poverty lost,
Why would you do that? Without knowing how many are living in "extreme poverty," why would you assume that all the weight was lost by those in "extreme poverty?"

Quote:
we see that 4509 and a half participant are living in extreme poverty (assuming for simplicity that all participants living in extreme poverty lost at least a gram of weight).
uhhh . . . que?

I had assumed that the 9 kg was simply roundoff for 8.7 kg, but it may be that they have additional data not included the report which identified an "extreme poverty" group, who have indeed lost a few 9 kg on average, and 86.3% of them were getting 2 or fewer meals per day.

Quote:

Which tells us what?
That apparently more than two thirds of the participants of that study live in extreme poverty, while the fraction of the Venezuelan society which does so, last time I've checked, was under 10% thanks to Chavismo. Maybe it's more now thanks to the recent economic war, but certainly nowhere near two thirds.

If I made no general mistake in my late night observation (feel free to check), this discredits the "study" and the reporting about it much more than anything Jacob Wilson came up with.
I'm not seeing it. I don't follow how you can derive the fraction of the population in "extreme poverty" from that table, nor can you safely assume their definition is the same as yours. By the UN definition, arguably 93% of Venezuela would now fall under "extreme poverty."

Suppose there's 7% in extreme poverty and they lost 9.0 kg each. If so, and the remaining 65.7% of the weight-losing population lost 8.67 kg each, we'd have the total of 72.7% of the population losing 8.7 kg each as the report says. Change the extreme poverty fraction and the numbers will change a little, but not much. I'm not seeing the contradiction.

I agree that the 2nd bullet on page 16 (86.3% getting 2 or fewer meals/day) doesn't seem to fit with diagram on page 16 or, for that matter, the conclusions on page 18. Maybe it's the "extreme poverty" subset again. As far as I can tell, none of the the mainstream media articles (including all of those cited by Wilson) used that 86.3%/2 meals figure. Instead, they used the 65.7%-getting-3-meals number.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:06 PM   #788
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
Why would you do that? Without knowing how many are living in "extreme poverty," why would you assume that all the weight was lost by those in "extreme poverty?"

You're right, that's the assumption I made, not the one I claimed to have made. Why? Well, it was late and maybe I jumped at the opportunity to put some sense into these claims which are ridiculous just at face value.

Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
As far as I can tell, none of the the mainstream media articles (including all of those cited by Wilson) used that 86.3%/2 meals figure. Instead, they used the 65.7%-getting-3-meals number.

No, the claim prominently reported by the mainstream media like shown by the examples earlier in the thread, and dismissed by me at face value, is the "nearly three-quarters of Venezuelans lost weight, on average 9 kg" in one year, men, women and children. I maintain that this is a ridiculous claim and after seeing the "study" - which wasn't linked in these mainstream media articles, just referred to as from "leading universities", but then delivered by Mr. Wilson -, I can see how with bad intention and ignoring the "quality" of it, one can get away with this number. Likely one of the hardcore opposition rags has delivered them the "facts" they just parroted, as usual.
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Old 5th November 2017, 10:20 PM   #789
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
By the UN definition, arguably 93% of Venezuela would now fall under "extreme poverty."

Citation needed. The World Bank's most recent numbers say it fell from 17 to 9.2%. In 2005-2006, that is (why?). The government claims the rate is around 5% in current years.
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Old 6th November 2017, 06:38 AM   #790
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Citation needed. The World Bank's most recent numbers say it fell from 17 to 9.2%. In 2005-2006, that is (why?). The government claims the rate is around 5% in current years.
The UN definition of "extreme poverty" is "a condition characterized by severe deprivation of basic human needs, including food, safe drinking water, sanitation facilities, health, shelter, education and information." If 93% of the population can't afford sufficient food, that would arguably qualify.

I assume that the actual "extreme poverty" statistics are based on a much more rigorous and nuanced standard, and that the current rate in Venezuela would be substantially below 93%.

But the numbers from 2005-2006 are relevant only if you think there hasn't been much change to the country's economy in the last 11 years.
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Old 6th November 2017, 06:55 AM   #791
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
... I maintain that this is a ridiculous claim and after seeing the "study" - which wasn't linked in these mainstream media articles, just referred to as from "leading universities", but then delivered by Mr. Wilson ...
(ellipses and hilighting mine)

Let's see. Wilson's article about the mainstream media mentions articles from:

NYTimes, which includes a link below the last chart.

Jacobin, which cites a CNBC article, which describes the source as "Data from the latest Venezuela Living Conditions Survey (ENCOVI 2016),"

CNN, which described the source as "the National Survey of Living Condition, known by its Spanish initials ENCOVI," and

Independent, which referred to the source as simply "the country’s National Survey of Living Conditions."

I agree that the Independent's source description could have been better, but I really can't fault the others and I must disagree with your hilighted assessment.
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Old 6th November 2017, 07:17 AM   #792
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
But the numbers from 2005-2006 are relevant only if you think there hasn't been much change to the country's economy in the last 11 years.

The numbers from 2005-2006 are the most recent ones on the World Bank site. That fact is their relevance.
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Old 6th November 2017, 07:29 AM   #793
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
Let's see. Wilson's article about the mainstream media mentions articles from:

I was talking about the examples earlier in the thread, namely from the Guardian and that blog from Miami. But ok, at least some of the ones cited by Wilson gave the reader the chance to check the source (he didn't claim otherwise, did he?).
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Old 6th November 2017, 12:47 PM   #794
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Quote:
Pets on the Menu as Venezuelans Starve
CARACAS, Venezuela—In a country that once was rich, but where people are beginning to starve, few animals are safe. One morning in August at the metropolitan zoo in the torrid city of Maracaibo, workers were shocked to find the bones of a buffalo and some wild pigs inside their cages with clear signs of mutilation. Thieves allegedly stole the meat to eat what they could and sell the rest on the local market.

In west Caracas, at the zoo of Caricuao district, the same sort of thing happened. Watchmen found the bones and offal of a black horse inside its enclosure. Apparently the perpetrators only took the edible parts of the animal.

<snip>

In the capital, it is common to bump into individuals or even families that, like Natalí’s, live on the garbage. Around Sabana Grande Boulevard many families with kids watch avidly over the piles of garbage outside the restaurants, waiting for the leftovers. Some of these families are not homeless, some of them even have jobs, but their incomes are not enough to eat.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/zoo-an...zuelans-starve




The Venezuelan health care system is breaking down too:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nati...182770351.html

Quote:
Crisis in Venezuelan hospitals: too many patients, too few beds
But finding a hospital bed is no guarantee that the patient will receive the required treatment because hospitals have less than 5 percent of the supplies and medicines needed to function normally, said Douglas Leon Natera, president of the Venezuelan Medical Federation.
“Any Venezuelan who gets sick here in the country today runs the risk of entering a clinic only to have the relatives leave crying” because “there's nothing” in many hospitals, Leon Natera told el Nuevo Herald in a telephone interview.
“We have barely 3 or 4 percent of the supplies and medicines [needed], which is really nothing,” he said. “And the showcase hospitals, which receive the most resources, may have only 10 to 12 percent.”
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Old 6th November 2017, 06:53 PM   #795
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A utopia I tells ya
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Old 6th November 2017, 07:19 PM   #796
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Democracy in action: Chavismo style!

Quote:
A majority of opposition leaders are now unable to challenge unpopular Maduro, a 54-year-old former bus driver and foreign minister whom they blame for the oil-rich nation’s economic downfall.

Anti-Maduro politicians have been barred from holding office, like two-time presidential candidate Henrique Capriles; arrested or placed under house arrest, like opposition leader Leopoldo Lopez; or threatened with trial, like congress leader Julio Borges who could face treason charges for lobbying against Venezuela’s government in global financial circles.
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Old 14th November 2017, 04:43 AM   #798
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