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Tags ghosts , physics , poltergeists

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Old 16th August 2014, 07:00 AM   #201
Pixel42
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Originally Posted by dlorde View Post
The question that interests me is why some people seem to have so many more such stories to tell than the rest of us.
There's an occasional poster here called PartSkeptic who goes around looking for odd coincidences, and consequently has lots of stories to tell about odd coincidences. Most people would barely notice them, let alone remember them.

If someone is looking for reasons to believe in the paranormal they will tend to notice and remember events which they can't immediately explain, but that most people would either not notice at all or dismiss and forget.
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Old 16th August 2014, 09:30 AM   #202
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I don't think that's the complete explanation. It doesn't matter whether you believe in the stereotypical paranormal such as ghost, goblins, and whatever else gets the blame. I think personality tendencies have more to do with it than anything else. Extroverts are much more likely to be skeptical of extraordinary claims than introverted personalities.
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Old 16th August 2014, 09:33 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Extroverts are much more likely to be skeptical of extraordinary claims than introverted personalities.
What is your evidence for this statement, please?
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Old 16th August 2014, 09:34 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
IMO, false memory is more likely to be the explanation than simultaneous and odd vandalism to three different car batteries or simultaneous battery defects on three different car batteries.

For example: One of the car batteries may have exploded. Then the other two were inspected and found to have distorted cases which were bulging. It was announced that the other two looked like they were about to explode as well. Thirty-five years later the story is that all three batteries exploded.

This is well within the realm of false and changing memory and is fairly common with normal people.

ETA: And what Olowkow just said.
You're on to something.

Bulging batteries are pretty common. Maybe they didn't actually explode.
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Old 16th August 2014, 02:32 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
There's an occasional poster here called PartSkeptic who goes around looking for odd coincidences, and consequently has lots of stories to tell about odd coincidences. Most people would barely notice them, let alone remember them.

If someone is looking for reasons to believe in the paranormal they will tend to notice and remember events which they can't immediately explain, but that most people would either not notice at all or dismiss and forget.
Good points, both. I was thinking along the lines that perhaps some of us are more naturally story tellers than others; for the vast majority of our species history our cultural memory has been verbal. On the other hand, perhaps some of us are more in need of social attention than others, and take whatever chances they can to collect and tell stories for this purpose (to impress, to fit in, to be noticed)
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Old 16th August 2014, 04:25 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
Another Woo Slinger trademark is the constant appeals to "But I know what I saw!"

As has already been pointed out this is a bad position. Evidence, logic, and reason sometimes have to override personal experience.

Now let us be very, very, very clear here. Pointing out that one's memory and perception can sometimes be faulty is not saying the person is lying, stupid, or crazy.

Allow me to relate a story. Many years ago I worked an ungodly swing shift onboard an aircraft carrier stationed out of Virginia. One dark, dreary early winter morning I drove to work in the wee hours of the dark, parked my car, and headed toward the ship. After taking a few steps something ran from under a nearby parked car and into some nearby brush. I'm rather short.

Now here's what I literally saw within my own perceptions. I saw a small bipedal figure run in a very humanoid like gate from under the car.

I'm a rational adult. I'm mentally sound. I don't do drugs or had recently used alcohol or prescription medication. I have fine eyesight when wearing corrective lenses, which I was at the time. I've actually literally had training on how to recognize a human figure moving against a background. The distance was no more then a few dozen meters and I saw what I saw for several seconds.

Option 1: I literally saw a tiny humanoid creature.

Option 2: A sailor walking to his ship spooked one of the of multitude of birds, feral cats or big rats that live on the base and when he looked at it some trick of light and shadow made him see something that wasn't there.

So which is more likely? That a species of gnome somehow lives but has escaped detection on one of the largest and busiest military facilities in the world or that a weary sailor had a brain fart?
1980's? Norfolk? It was probably drunken me trying to get back for muster.
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Last edited by skullerello; 16th August 2014 at 04:27 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old 16th August 2014, 04:46 PM   #207
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Why would you tow all 3 cars?

I don't think you are recalling any of these events accurately.
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Old 16th August 2014, 05:07 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
I don't think that's the complete explanation. It doesn't matter whether you believe in the stereotypical paranormal such as ghost, goblins, and whatever else gets the blame. I think personality tendencies have more to do with it than anything else. Extroverts are much more likely to be skeptical of extraordinary claims than introverted personalities.
It was battery fairies. can you accept that explanation? why or why not?
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Old 16th August 2014, 05:44 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
I don't think that's the complete explanation. It doesn't matter whether you believe in the stereotypical paranormal such as ghost, goblins, and whatever else gets the blame. I think personality tendencies have more to do with it than anything else. Extroverts are much more likely to be skeptical of extraordinary claims than introverted personalities.
I'm calling BS on this extraordinary claim, and I've been introverted all my life.
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Old 16th August 2014, 05:53 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
Why would you tow all 3 cars?

I don't think you are recalling any of these events accurately.
Dad said he couldn't get the batteries out and he wanted the mechanic to check the other parts to make sure they were OK.
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Old 16th August 2014, 07:03 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
I'm calling BS on this extraordinary claim, and I've been introverted all my life.
It's not a direct correlation type of thing but here are some research articles that back up my opinion:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23397237

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22481051

Nothing is 100% and you know that there are other factors that affect perception rather than just whether you tend to be extroverted or introverted.

Extroverts tend to be more objectively oriented and impulsive. An introvert is more analytical, methodical, but also relies more on intuition and tends to be fantasy prone.

I think it takes an introvert more effort and self awareness to apply a skeptical approach towards something than it would an extrovert. The extrovert would be more oriented towards and comfortable dealing with objective fact.
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Old 16th August 2014, 10:25 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
It's not a direct correlation type of thing but here are some research articles that back up my opinion:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23397237

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22481051

Nothing is 100% and you know that there are other factors that affect perception rather than just whether you tend to be extroverted or introverted.

Extroverts tend to be more objectively oriented and impulsive. An introvert is more analytical, methodical, but also relies more on intuition and tends to be fantasy prone.

I think it takes an introvert more effort and self awareness to apply a skeptical approach towards something than it would an extrovert. The extrovert would be more oriented towards and comfortable dealing with objective fact.

Your cited studies don't support your claim. And your additional claims are unsupported.
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Old 17th August 2014, 01:34 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
With regard to the bathroom door, the obvious question arises: how did you get out again?
I have another question. From my very limited knowledge of poltergeists - all gained from watching bad movies - they are not exactly the quiet sort. Of course one must consider that knowledge of poltergeists is likely faulty, but...I find it hard to believe they should be able to close a door without making the same door closing sounds as any human might make. Jodie claims she would have heard the door scraping as it closed, and that she didn't hear that noise. Well - a poltergeist would have made the same noise.

Personally I think poltergeists are as fictional as it gets. But I think it is safe to say that any ghost, poltergeist, sandman or Bigfoot would have had to make some noise to close the privy door. Leaving me to think that Jodie misremembers, and closed the door herself.
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Old 17th August 2014, 02:02 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Dad said he couldn't get the batteries out and he wanted the mechanic to check the other parts to make sure they were OK.
If the batteries had truly exploded - quite a lot of the other parts would be not okay.
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Old 17th August 2014, 07:24 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
Your cited studies don't support your claim. And your additional claims are unsupported.
Well then it's just my opinion.
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Old 17th August 2014, 07:25 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Modesty78 View Post
I have another question. From my very limited knowledge of poltergeists - all gained from watching bad movies - they are not exactly the quiet sort. Of course one must consider that knowledge of poltergeists is likely faulty, but...I find it hard to believe they should be able to close a door without making the same door closing sounds as any human might make. Jodie claims she would have heard the door scraping as it closed, and that she didn't hear that noise. Well - a poltergeist would have made the same noise.

Personally I think poltergeists are as fictional as it gets. But I think it is safe to say that any ghost, poltergeist, sandman or Bigfoot would have had to make some noise to close the privy door. Leaving me to think that Jodie misremembers, and closed the door herself.
No, I'm positive that I didn't close the door due to the sag of the door frame. It has only been 4 years ago since this incident happened.
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Old 17th August 2014, 07:27 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Modesty78 View Post
If the batteries had truly exploded - quite a lot of the other parts would be not okay.
If they didn't explode, would they leak when the batteries became swollen?
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Old 17th August 2014, 08:26 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
It has only been 4 years ago since this incident happened.
It's hard to remember what one had for lunch last Thursday, much less what happened four years ago.
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Old 17th August 2014, 08:31 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
If they didn't explode, would they leak when the batteries became swollen?
If they merely cracked they would still leak profusely, and depending on position, they could make a big mess. If a prankster shorted them enough to boil the electrolyte, they would not need either to crack or explode to exude electrolyte and make a mess. If a prankster took a hammer and whacked the side of a battery, it would look very bad, and make a big mess too. Battery cases are not very strong on the sides.

If, as you say, the vehicles were towed away to assess the damage, can one not presume the damage was assessed? Of course it's a bit late now, but it would be interesting to know what an actual mechanic thought of the situation.
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Old 17th August 2014, 08:33 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
If they didn't explode, would they leak when the batteries became swollen?
They could develop leaks without exploding.

One battery may have exploded then the others were inspected and found to be bulging and/or leaking. But those conditions may have developed independently and not in simultaneous coincidence. A leaking or bulging battery case might not be noticed until there is a reason to look closely at it.
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Old 17th August 2014, 08:41 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
If they merely cracked they would still leak profusely, and depending on position, they could make a big mess. If a prankster shorted them enough to boil the electrolyte, they would not need either to crack or explode to exude electrolyte and make a mess. If a prankster took a hammer and whacked the side of a battery, it would look very bad, and make a big mess too. Battery cases are not very strong on the sides.

If, as you say, the vehicles were towed away to assess the damage, can one not presume the damage was assessed? Of course it's a bit late now, but it would be interesting to know what an actual mechanic thought of the situation.
I think that with some battery designs you can lose fluid in one cell and the others remain full.

Vandalism seems far-fetched to me and really dangerous for the person doing it. Hammer to the case leaves you vulnerable for being splashed by the highly corrosive acid. A tool spanned across the terminals creates big sparking and dangers. The tool might weld itself to the terminals or at least become too hot to touch. Then if there is an explosion you have acid everywhere including your face.

Getting to the batteries can be a challenge if the cars have internal hood releases and the doors are locked. The vandal has to first break into the car in order to release the hood mechanism.
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Old 17th August 2014, 12:49 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
No, I'm positive that I didn't close the door due to the sag of the door frame. It has only been 4 years ago since this incident happened.
And you didn't hear the according to you very noisy door close during the very few seconds your back was turned?
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Old 17th August 2014, 01:25 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by AdMan
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
... here are some research articles that back up my opinion:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23397237

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22481051
...
Extroverts tend to be more objectively oriented and impulsive. An introvert is more analytical, methodical, but also relies more on intuition and tends to be fantasy prone.

I think it takes an introvert more effort and self awareness to apply a skeptical approach towards something than it would an extrovert. The extrovert would be more oriented towards and comfortable dealing with objective fact.

Your cited studies don't support your claim. And your additional claims are unsupported.
This ^
Not only do the cited studies not support (or even address) the claims, they mention and refer to a known association between supernatural and religious skepticism and a reflective, analytic cognitive style, which even Jodie suggests is more characteristic of introverts. So, if anything, they contradict her claim that "Extroverts are much more likely to be skeptical of extraordinary claims than introverted personalities".
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Old 17th August 2014, 01:28 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by deaman View Post
It's hard to remember what one had for lunch last Thursday yesterday, much less what happened four years ago.
FTFY...
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Old 17th August 2014, 07:53 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by deaman View Post
It's hard to remember what one had for lunch last Thursday, much less what happened four years ago.
Not if you were impressed by what happened and couldn't figure it out.
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Old 17th August 2014, 07:55 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
If they merely cracked they would still leak profusely, and depending on position, they could make a big mess. If a prankster shorted them enough to boil the electrolyte, they would not need either to crack or explode to exude electrolyte and make a mess. If a prankster took a hammer and whacked the side of a battery, it would look very bad, and make a big mess too. Battery cases are not very strong on the sides.

If, as you say, the vehicles were towed away to assess the damage, can one not presume the damage was assessed? Of course it's a bit late now, but it would be interesting to know what an actual mechanic thought of the situation.
I think it was vandalism, at the time Dad didn't think so. I don't recall if that was based on what the mechanics told him about the batteries or if that was just his opinion at the time.
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Old 17th August 2014, 07:57 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Modesty78 View Post
And you didn't hear the according to you very noisy door close during the very few seconds your back was turned?
No, I didn't. Someone else suggested that the door popped into place due to the change in weight distribution as I walked across the floor to the sink. Maybe, but I still think I would have heard it, I don't know.
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Old 17th August 2014, 08:01 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by dlorde View Post
This ^
Not only do the cited studies not support (or even address) the claims, they mention and refer to a known association between supernatural and religious skepticism and a reflective, analytic cognitive style, which even Jodie suggests is more characteristic of introverts. So, if anything, they contradict her claim that "Extroverts are much more likely to be skeptical of extraordinary claims than introverted personalities".
I still think my original statement is true. Extroverts can be analytical and/or reflective, but they don't usually question objective facts when initially dealing with a problem or issue.

Extroversion and Introversion fall on a continuum but research suggests that there is a fundamental difference in your neuro circuitry that makes the difference. That would indicate that a person with either trait would approach a problem or question in a different way initially, not that either would use one method exclusively to solve that problem.
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Old 17th August 2014, 08:10 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Extroverts can be analytical and/or reflective, but they don't usually question objective facts when initially dealing with a problem or issue.
Such broad strokes it's laughable.
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Old 17th August 2014, 08:20 PM   #230
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Old 17th August 2014, 08:26 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Everybody has a paint brush, whether you use it it or not will depend on the barn.
What does that even mean?
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Old 17th August 2014, 11:20 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
I still think my original statement is true. Extroverts can be analytical and/or reflective, but they don't usually question objective facts when initially dealing with a problem or issue.

Extroversion and Introversion fall on a continuum but research suggests that there is a fundamental difference in your neuro circuitry that makes the difference. That would indicate that a person with either trait would approach a problem or question in a different way initially, not that either would use one method exclusively to solve that problem.

Even if that's true, it says nothing about how skeptical the individuals would be. Stop pretending it's anything but your own opinion.
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Old 18th August 2014, 07:53 AM   #233
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Wasn't the poltergeist/pig-faced ghost from Amityville Horror called Jodie?

Anyway, I do find this thread interesting and I thank Jodie for peppering the thread with new mysteries as we progress.

I find it useful to read good possible explanations for seemingly mysterious or paranormal occurrences. My brother (and some of my work colleagues) will often come to me and say, "right, 'splain this professor..." and then tell me about some floating white lady they saw crossing the road 20 years ago one misty night. (or another amazing story). Although I often tell them about the fallibility of human memory, and try to talk about paradolia, they're usually not interested unless I can actually explain how the occurrence physically happened in reality.

So keep on posting your strange occurrences please Jodie, and I look forward to reading about possible physical solutions.
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Old 18th August 2014, 08:14 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Reno View Post
So keep on posting your strange occurrences please Jodie, and I look forward to reading about possible physical solutions.
She hasn't mentioned the Flying Amoeba yet.
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Old 18th August 2014, 09:12 AM   #235
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Pareidolia (/prɨˈdoʊliə/ parr-i-doh-lee-ə) is a psychological phenomenon involving a vague and random stimulus (often an image or sound) being perceived as significant, a form of apophenia. Common examples include seeing images of animals or faces in clouds, the man in the moon or the Moon rabbit, and hearing hidden messages on records when played in reverse.

Apophenia /pɵˈfiːniə/ is the experience of seeing patterns or connections in random or meaningless data.
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Old 18th August 2014, 12:19 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
I think it was vandalism, at the time Dad didn't think so. I don't recall if that was based on what the mechanics told him about the batteries or if that was just his opinion at the time.
Oh! If it was only 4 years ago, the shop where all the cars went might still have records! You could find out what they thought for sure. Or, if your Dad is like me, he probably kept a copy of all the repair and purchase records - they'd be in the glove compartments or in a file somewhere. You would only need the records from one car.
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Old 18th August 2014, 12:31 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by dlorde View Post
Good points, both. I was thinking along the lines that perhaps some of us are more naturally story tellers than others; for the vast majority of our species history our cultural memory has been verbal. On the other hand, perhaps some of us are more in need of social attention than others, and take whatever chances they can to collect and tell stories for this purpose (to impress, to fit in, to be noticed)
These points are extremely relevant here.
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Old 18th August 2014, 02:16 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Dad said he couldn't get the batteries out and he wanted the mechanic to check the other parts to make sure they were OK.
That makes sense but I am wondering if this all really happened the same night. 35 years down the road you may be lumping several unconnected events into one night because they were all similar events.
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Old 18th August 2014, 03:16 PM   #239
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I tell you, it was battery fairies. my explanation is just as valid as any other paranormal explanation.
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Old 18th August 2014, 08:48 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Tiktaalik View Post
Oh! If it was only 4 years ago, the shop where all the cars went might still have records! You could find out what they thought for sure. Or, if your Dad is like me, he probably kept a copy of all the repair and purchase records - they'd be in the glove compartments or in a file somewhere. You would only need the records from one car.
The battery incident wasn't four years ago--that was the door incident.
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