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Old 28th July 2015, 09:24 AM   #201
Donn
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Obviously the snake is your familiar and you are a powerful mage.
Twirls beard. You know too much…
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Old 28th July 2015, 11:31 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Obviously the snake is your familiar and you are a powerful mage.

You guys are reading too many comics, or werewolf magazines. Or whatever the latest craze is.

The snake was the highlight of a series of problems in about six weeks of daily issues. Among other things I got bitten by a spider, stung by a scorpion, infested with ants, had a bat fly into us while sleeping, had a strange insect that looked like a brightly colored bird knocking at the window in the middle of the night. Nothing supernatural at all (I mean that). But why everyday! Day after day! A little odd.

I have been thinking about the remarks as to how my memory may be at fault.

I do not have total recall. I remember key points. Just which of the points do you think I may not have properly remembered?

The 1960's. I cannot tell you what year, or what I was reading, or just how late it was. I do remember the features of the house, and we stayed there for a couple of years. I did not count steps.

Why did I think it was a ghost? You tell me what you would think if you are in Africa with riots and burglaries, and security is a priority. The house was locked. Then one hears the unmistakeable sound of heavy footsteps starting at the front door. What would you guys as teenagers think?

Can you imagine me going to my mother in the morning and saying "Mom. I think I need a psychiatric check-up. I was certain I heard footsteps in the house late last night. But because it could not have happened, I must be hallucinating."

And even now, the best you (or I) can do is to say I fell asleep, and imagined the episode. But this means that my memory of the next day has to be explained. As does the reason I may have imagined what I did.

Say my memory is faulty. Just how much has to be "filled in" or altered until it becomes "mundane"?

Oh well. I am not out to convince anyone. I thought I might get a couple of concessions that the mysteries of the universe are still beyond our capacity to nail down, and because of that the probability for the supernatural cannot be stated as being zero (or so small that it does not matter).

I also thought I would get a bit more in the way of possible (specific) explanations of these phenomenon. If not the supernatural then what?
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Old 28th July 2015, 11:35 AM   #203
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Cool stories.
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Old 28th July 2015, 11:40 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I also thought I would get a bit more in the way of possible (specific) explanations of these phenomenon. If not the supernatural then what?
http://patient.info/doctor/Hypnagogi...ucinations.htm

Quote:
Hypnagogic or hypnopompic hallucinations are visual, tactile, auditory, or other sensory events, usually brief but occasionally prolonged, that occur at the transition from wakefulness to sleep (hypnagogic) or from sleep to wakefulness (hypnopompic). . .

•A telephone interview of nearly 5,000 people aged 15 to 100 in the UK[2] showed that 37% of the sample reported experiencing hypnagogic hallucinations and 12.5% reported hypnopompic hallucinations. Both types of hallucinations were significantly more common among subjects with symptoms of insomnia, excessive daytime sleepiness or mental disorders. Hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations were much more common than expected . . .
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Old 28th July 2015, 11:46 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Maurice Ledifficile View Post
Cool stories.

Thanks. Living them is way cooler of course. My whole life is one series of unusual happenings that I would not say are supernatural. Family and people who know me all remark about this. One guys summed it up when he said "Every week-end you come into the office and tell us what happened. No-one I know of has anything near to the things that go on in your life."

Don't be envious. The highs were great, but lows and the bad times would have been hard for most people to handle. I got accused on attracting chaos because of the blow-ups around me. Luckily I was grew up thinking that this was nothing out of the ordinary, and I was used to it.
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Old 28th July 2015, 11:52 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Thanks. Living them is way cooler of course. My whole life is one series of unusual happenings that I would not say are supernatural. Family and people who know me all remark about this. One guys summed it up when he said "Every week-end you come into the office and tell us what happened. No-one I know of has anything near to the things that go on in your life."

Don't be envious. The highs were great, but lows and the bad times would have been hard for most people to handle. I got accused on attracting chaos because of the blow-ups around me. Luckily I was grew up thinking that this was nothing out of the ordinary, and I was used to it.
I have no reason to believe a word you say. It's just more stories. The "cool" part is just an online meme I chose to perpetuate. Your stories are no cooler than anyone else's.
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Old 28th July 2015, 11:52 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The snake was the highlight of a series of problems in about six weeks of daily issues. Among other things I got bitten by a spider, stung by a scorpion, infested with ants, had a bat fly into us while sleeping, had a strange insect that looked like a brightly colored bird knocking at the window in the middle of the night. Nothing supernatural at all (I mean that). But why everyday! Day after day! A little odd.
Could it be that you started anticipating something and then counting every happening as important? How many natural interactions have you had since that you just did not care about?

I've been bitten by a scorpion within a week of being in surgery, a week after almost putting my hand on a snake, shortly after chasing baboons from my kitchen, shortly after storm damage, shortly after my car battery died... Oh yeah, those big black biting ants that claim my driveway. They're fun.

(Let's not forget the vast army of fungi and bacteria that are trying to murder me every second.)

So what? My story is not significant like yours; there's no tint of magical spirits slipping about unseen.

Quote:
Can you imagine me going to my mother in the morning and saying "Mom. I think I need a psychiatric check-up. I was certain I heard footsteps in the house late last night. But because it could not have happened, I must be hallucinating."
Why would I think that?

Quote:
And even now, the best you (or I) can do is to say I fell asleep, and imagined the episode. But this means that my memory of the next day has to be explained. As does the reason I may have imagined what I did.
Was that the best? I don't recall. Maybe there were actual feet attached to the steps? Who knows? All the mundane options are vastly more satisfying than spooks. Including this one: there will never be an answer.

Quote:
Oh well. I am not out to convince anyone. I thought I might get a couple of concessions that the mysteries of the universe are still beyond our capacity to nail down, and because of that the probability for the supernatural cannot be stated as being zero (or so small that it does not matter).
Well, you tried. Go to just about any other place in the world, they'll accommodate you. This forum is the resistance.

The mysteries of the universe are many. Some are within human capacity, some await new ideas, new technologies, new positions in space.

Here's the thing, and you know it: Drinking imaginary water will not slake your thirst.
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Old 28th July 2015, 11:56 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
One guys summed it up when he said "Every week-end you come into the office and tell us what happened. No-one I know of has anything near to the things that go on in your life."
They were being polite. Here's a translation, "I don't believe you and I wish you'd stop inflating your ego all over the place."

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Old 28th July 2015, 12:23 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
They were being polite. Here's a translation, "I don't believe you and I wish you'd stop inflating your ego all over the place."
I have no trouble believing him. PartSkeptic is hypersensitive to coincidences and anything that could be conceivably be considered out of the ordinary, so of course he notices them all the time. As you have just illustrated, such things happen to you occasionally too. They happen to everybody occasionally. We usually don't notice them, or if we do we shrug them off as no big deal. Because we don't attribute any significance to them it doesn't even occur to us to consider a supernatural explanation. We might sometimes mention an odd experience to a friend or relative, but we don't tell all and sundry so we don't get a reputation for telling weird stories as PartSkeptic has. I guess we all like to have something that distinguishes us from the crowd.
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Old 28th July 2015, 12:32 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I have no trouble believing him. PartSkeptic is hypersensitive to coincidences and anything that could be conceivably be considered out of the ordinary, so of course he notices them all the time. As you have just illustrated, such things happen to you occasionally too. They happen to everybody occasionally. We usually don't notice them, or if we do we shrug them off as no big deal. Because we don't attribute any significance to them it doesn't even occur to us to consider a supernatural explanation. We might sometimes mention an odd experience to a friend or relative, but we don't tell all and sundry so we don't get a reputation for telling weird stories as PartSkeptic has. I guess we all like to have something that distinguishes us from the crowd.
I believe he believes it too. I was standing-in for his audience — admittedly with my bias — who, when I've been in such audiences, roll their eyes and cannot wait to change the subject and steer the bore off.

I've mentioned a person who's into pet psychics, and every other stripe of woo. Being in the same room is tough; not only on me. People actually sigh with relief when released from the sessions — like troops escaping a Sergeant.

Only my ire speaking, I'm sure.
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Old 28th July 2015, 01:29 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
You guys are reading too many comics, or werewolf magazines. Or whatever the latest craze is.

The snake was the highlight of a series of problems in about six weeks of daily issues. Among other things I got bitten by a spider, stung by a scorpion, infested with ants, had a bat fly into us while sleeping, had a strange insect that looked like a brightly colored bird knocking at the window in the middle of the night. Nothing supernatural at all (I mean that). But why everyday! Day after day! A little odd.

I have been thinking about the remarks as to how my memory may be at fault.

I do not have total recall. I remember key points. Just which of the points do you think I may not have properly remembered?

The 1960's. I cannot tell you what year, or what I was reading, or just how late it was. I do remember the features of the house, and we stayed there for a couple of years. I did not count steps.

Why did I think it was a ghost? You tell me what you would think if you are in Africa with riots and burglaries, and security is a priority. The house was locked. Then one hears the unmistakeable sound of heavy footsteps starting at the front door. What would you guys as teenagers think?

Can you imagine me going to my mother in the morning and saying "Mom. I think I need a psychiatric check-up. I was certain I heard footsteps in the house late last night. But because it could not have happened, I must be hallucinating."

And even now, the best you (or I) can do is to say I fell asleep, and imagined the episode. But this means that my memory of the next day has to be explained. As does the reason I may have imagined what I did.

Say my memory is faulty. Just how much has to be "filled in" or altered until it becomes "mundane"?

Oh well. I am not out to convince anyone. I thought I might get a couple of concessions that the mysteries of the universe are still beyond our capacity to nail down, and because of that the probability for the supernatural cannot be stated as being zero (or so small that it does not matter).

I also thought I would get a bit more in the way of possible (specific) explanations of these phenomenon. If not the supernatural then what?
It is obvious you need a total spiritual clearing. Send a check for $100 to me and when the check clears the bank your soul will be cleared of all dross.

Now would I say this if it weren't true?
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Old 29th July 2015, 01:23 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Any verifiable or credible instance of a recording of a paranormal sound or visual?
Any verifiable or credible instance of the paranormal?
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Old 29th July 2015, 02:29 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
I believe he believes it too. I was standing-in for his audience — admittedly with my bias — who, when I've been in such audiences, roll their eyes and cannot wait to change the subject and steer the bore off.
Part apology to PartSkeptic.
While I stand by the substance of what I wrote, I regret the harsh tone and I retract the bore comment.

I'm no good at being stern. Not for long.

I hope you part forgive, and watch those cobras!
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Old 29th July 2015, 03:20 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Maurice Ledifficile View Post
I have no reason to believe a word you say. It's just more stories. The "cool" part is just an online meme I chose to perpetuate. Your stories are no cooler than anyone else's.

Strange! Using a word that has a commonly accepted meaning and trying to perpetuate another hidden meaning???

I did not accept that you believed me. That is another matter.
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Old 29th July 2015, 03:29 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Part apology to PartSkeptic.
While I stand by the substance of what I wrote, I regret the harsh tone and I retract the bore comment.

I'm no good at being stern. Not for long.

I hope you part forgive, and watch those cobras!

No problem. My ego is not fragile, however I do not think it is over-sized. I am confident, and know myself - my faults and my strengths. I think we are all different, and that is good for society. We all have a part to play.

Since I was not offended, there is no need for forgiveness. You are the one who has to judge yourself, and live with yourself. Having been in a number of relationships, I have learned that one cannot unsay something. I only attack people who are a serious threat to my physical well-being.

These forums are somewhat different and people can at times speak their minds.
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Old 29th July 2015, 03:34 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
It is obvious you need a total spiritual clearing. Send a check for $100 to me and when the check clears the bank your soul will be cleared of all dross.

Now would I say this if it weren't true?

You sound like a good guy. And have an honest-looking avatar. Why should I not believe you? Where do I send the check? My bank is good for all and any spiritual donations.

Oh, wait. You were so persuasive that I nearly forgot I have already paid big bucks for a spiritual cleaning. I have to look at the fine print for the guarantee term.
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Old 29th July 2015, 03:41 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I have no trouble believing him. PartSkeptic is hypersensitive to coincidences and anything that could be conceivably be considered out of the ordinary, so of course he notices them all the time. As you have just illustrated, such things happen to you occasionally too. They happen to everybody occasionally. We usually don't notice them, or if we do we shrug them off as no big deal. Because we don't attribute any significance to them it doesn't even occur to us to consider a supernatural explanation. We might sometimes mention an odd experience to a friend or relative, but we don't tell all and sundry so we don't get a reputation for telling weird stories as PartSkeptic has. I guess we all like to have something that distinguishes us from the crowd.

That is a start. Some credibility. Thanks.

If the afterlife exists, maybe we will meet and have a drink and chat about the good old days, but I am not sure how we find each other. Of course, it just hit me. Mental telepathy. Imagine it and it comes true.

I have a strange story that has lots of coincidences, but no supernatural connections, so I won't bore anyone with it.
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Old 30th July 2015, 12:45 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Any verifiable or credible instance of the paranormal?
As you didn't answer this question, PartSkeptic, allow me to ask you instead to define "verifiable" and "credible".
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Old 30th July 2015, 06:48 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
As you didn't answer this question, PartSkeptic, allow me to ask you instead to define "verifiable" and "credible".

Sorry about that. Verifiable is confirmation of some sort. Documented by people who are trustworthy. Credible means believable - free of contradictions, backed by honest people, lack of bias.

Not a science theorem, or legally acceptable. Just what a reasonable person would say might have a degree of truth. You tell me your best story, and why is is better than most.
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Old 30th July 2015, 08:52 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Verifiable is confirmation of some sort. Documented by people who are trustworthy.
How is who is and is not trustworthy determined?

Quote:
Credible means believable - free of contradictions, backed by honest people, lack of bias.
How should this be assessed?
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Old 30th July 2015, 09:42 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
How is who is and is not trustworthy determined?

How should this be assessed?

I asked you if you had anything you considered reliable. My guess would be that your answer would be "absolutely not because the paranormal does not exist"

I have come across a number of cases in popular myth, but nearly all are discredited, and I do not argue with the debunking. Here is one such article.

Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parapsychology
In 1938, the psychologist Joseph Jastrow wrote much of the evidence for extrasensory perception collected by Rhine and other parapsychologists was anecdotal, biased, dubious and the result of "faulty observation and familiar human frailties". Rhine's experiments were discredited due to the discovery that sensory leakage or cheating could account for all his results such as the subject being able to read the symbols from the back of the cards and being able to see and hear the experimenter to note subtle clues.

Illusionist Milbourne Christopher wrote years later that he felt "there are at least a dozen ways a subject who wished to cheat under the conditions Rhine described could deceive the investigator". When Rhine took precautions in response to criticisms of his methods, he was unable to find any high-scoring subjects. Another criticism, made by chemist Irving Langmuir, among others, was one of selective reporting. Langmuir stated that Rhine did not report scores of subjects that he suspected were intentionally guessing wrong, and that this, he felt, biased the statistical results higher than they should have been.

Does that mean that the supernatural does not exist, or that the supernatural is governed by an intelligence that does not wish evidence of its existence? The standard answer by a disbeliever is that this statement is a cop-out.

And what if we are in a computer simulation or dream of an intelligent being? If there is a possibility that might be, then there is a possibility that the statement might be true. Can you prove to me that we are not in a simulation or dream?

How many people like to believe that multiverses, cyclic universes and other dimensions are possible, despite the fact that proving any of these is harder than looking for glitches in reality?

And why do they? Because the belief that they might be possible lessens the chance of intelligent design which some argue is evidenced by fine tuning. Cosmologists acknowledge that our universe is like a pencil that stays balanced on its point.

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Old 30th July 2015, 10:32 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I asked you if you had anything you considered reliable. My guess would be that your answer would be "absolutely not because the paranormal does not exist"

I have come across a number of cases in popular myth, but nearly all are discredited, and I do not argue with the debunking. Here is one such article.




Does that mean that the supernatural does not exist, or that the supernatural is governed by an intelligence that does not wish evidence of its existence? The standard answer by a disbeliever is that this statement is a cop-out.

And what if we are in a computer simulation or dream of an intelligent being? If there is a possibility that might be, then there is a possibility that the statement might be true. Can you prove to me that we are not in a simulation or dream?

How many people like to believe that multiverses, cyclic universes and other dimensions are possible, despite the fact that proving any of these is harder than looking for glitches in reality?

And why do they? Because the belief that they might be possible lessens the chance of intelligent design which some argue is evidenced by fine tuning. Cosmologists acknowledge that our universe is like a pencil that stays balanced on its point.
And what if we are turds expelled by the Great Green Goober.

And what if we are pawns in the Great Chessmasters game

And what if we are hairless apes.
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Old 30th July 2015, 12:36 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I asked you if you had anything you considered reliable. My guess would be that your answer would be "absolutely not because the paranormal does not exist"

I have come across a number of cases in popular myth, but nearly all are discredited, and I do not argue with the debunking. Here is one such article.




Does that mean that the supernatural does not exist, or that the supernatural is governed by an intelligence that does not wish evidence of its existence? The standard answer by a disbeliever is that this statement is a cop-out.

And what if we are in a computer simulation or dream of an intelligent being? If there is a possibility that might be, then there is a possibility that the statement might be true. Can you prove to me that we are not in a simulation or dream?

How many people like to believe that multiverses, cyclic universes and other dimensions are possible, despite the fact that proving any of these is harder than looking for glitches in reality?

And why do they? Because the belief that they might be possible lessens the chance of intelligent design which some argue is evidenced by fine tuning. Cosmologists acknowledge that our universe is like a pencil that stays balanced on its point.
Absolutely none of this is in any way even pretending to answer the questions you were asked.
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Old 30th July 2015, 03:34 PM   #224
Daylightstar
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
...
Does that mean that the supernatural does not exist, ...
It means that no strong evidence for the supernatural has been put forth.


Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
...
or that the supernatural is governed by an intelligence that does not wish evidence of its existence? The standard answer by a disbeliever is that this statement is a cop-out.
...
Well then, where do the strong belief and convictions of believers in the supernatural come from?
That 'intelligence' must have an IQ of not more than 3.
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Old 30th July 2015, 11:17 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
It means that no strong evidence for the supernatural has been put forth.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
Well then, where do the strong belief and convictions of believers in the supernatural come from?

Personal experience.

Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
That 'intelligence' must have an IQ of not more than 3.

Lets see. Gadzillions of years of intelligent mental age divided by many more gadzillions of physical age. An IQ of 3 might just do it, I would say. Some might say infinity divided by infinity could give you any number, so we would need the cosmologists/mathematicians to use perturbation theory to normalize the result.


Okay. I think we have beaten this dead horse enough. Pity we did not hear more from Alferd_Packer. I will attempt to bow out.
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Old 31st July 2015, 12:54 AM   #226
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Personal experiences are indeed the root of most belief in the paranormal; most people give far more credence to them than to the results of decades of careful scientific research, as they have no idea how fallible their perceptions and memories are and have never heard the term 'cognitive bias'.
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Old 31st July 2015, 01:12 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
...
Lets see. Gadzillions of years of intelligent mental age divided by many more gadzillions of physical age. An IQ of 3 might just do it, I would say. Some might say infinity divided by infinity could give you any number, so we would need the cosmologists/mathematicians to use perturbation theory to normalize the result.
...
Actually, the hypothetical intelligence' governing and overseeing the secrecy of 'The Paranormal' would be a complete retard, with so many believers with 'personal experiences'.
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Old 31st July 2015, 01:17 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Personal experiences are indeed the root of most belief in the paranormal; most people give far more credence to them than to the results of decades of careful scientific research, as they have no idea how fallible their perceptions and memories are and have never heard the term 'cognitive bias'.
The personal experience itself may not have the same effect on everybody. The traits of the person having the personal experience plays a role as well.
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Old 31st July 2015, 01:20 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
... Pity we did not hear more from Alferd_Packer. ...
Agreed
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Old 31st July 2015, 04:01 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
The personal experience itself may not have the same effect on everybody. The traits of the person having the personal experience plays a role as well.
Indeed, with a predisposition to believe in the supernatural being the most important such trait. Someone like flaccon/Cassidy, for example, will see the supernatural in trivial examples of pareidolia that the vast majority of people would understand the true explanation of, even if they'd never heard the word pareidolia.
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Old 31st July 2015, 06:36 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
And what if we are hairless apes.
Hairless apes that are afraid of the dark, afraid of dying, looking for any explanation that makes us seem special, rather than just a mortal, carbon based lifeform like any other on this spinning blue rock.
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Old 31st July 2015, 07:20 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Okay. I think we have beaten this dead horse enough. Pity we did not hear more from Alferd_Packer. I will attempt to bow out.
If you wanted, you could always answer the questions I asked you instead of beating a dead horse...
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Old 31st July 2015, 09:17 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
If you wanted, you could always answer the questions I asked you instead of beating a dead horse...
Maybe we could ask the ghost of the dead horse
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Old 31st July 2015, 10:41 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Maybe we could ask the ghost of the dead horse

I wondered if anyone would come up with this one. Congratulations, you get the honors.

Personal experience. The only "real" thing we actually have. I think therefore I am. The rest could be all hallucination, all lucid dream, or all simulation. I choose to give some credibility to my own experiences where I think the mundane explanations are hard pressed to explain them. If I heard some-one else tell me the same things rather than be my own experiences, I doubt I would feel the way I do.

A person could chose to believe that there are no higher/hidden powers/spirits and just live their life. Fine with me. I choose to believe that that is one possible answer, but I think that there might be a possibility that the supernatural exists.

So I choose to pray, and to take part in ceremonies. They might work for either of two reasons. One is that the supernatural does exist, and the other is that the supernatural does not exist but there are psychological positives at work. To me it is a win-win situation.
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Old 31st July 2015, 10:42 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
If you wanted, you could always answer the questions I asked you instead of beating a dead horse...

Let me review the thread again and I will try later. This morning I have some work that must get done.
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Old 1st August 2015, 08:28 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
How is who is and is not trustworthy determined?

Check out their history. If they have been involved in scams, and have people complaining about them they are suspect. If they are respected in their field, and their peers acknowledge their contribution (may agree or disagree) their opinion/writing can be generally trusted.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
How should this be assessed?

Assessing credibility is done by asking questions and reviewing the answers. Evasiveness is a sign of of lack of credibility. Contradictions without a logical explanation are also suspect. Again, history will ruin a persons credibility. Lying in the past, supporting the unsupportable and so on.

There is no agency or organization that assesses these things. On these forums you make up your own mind, and if you have built-in bias you may get the wrong answer.

I may be mistaken in my beliefs as to possible explanations, and even in what I think I have experienced, but I say that does not mean I am untrustworthy, or lack credibility.

One might be sure that there is no supernatural and uses this to say that anyone who thinks there might should automatically be untrustworthy, or is not credible. Different folks, different personal standards.
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Old 1st August 2015, 08:55 AM   #237
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When it comes to assessing the reality of something that has never been proven to exist, anecdotes are beyond useless. Credibility is meaningless.
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Old 1st August 2015, 09:15 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
...
I may be mistaken in my beliefs as to possible explanations, and even in what I think I have experienced, but I say that does not mean I am untrustworthy, or lack credibility.

One might be sure that there is no supernatural and uses this to say that anyone who thinks there might should automatically be untrustworthy, or is not credible. Different folks, different personal standards.
If one consistently displays an apparent need for the possibility for something which fails to be demonstrated as real again and again and again, one's credibility slowly deteriorates.
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Old 1st August 2015, 09:30 AM   #239
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Credibility given by ghosts is credulity.
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Old 1st August 2015, 10:24 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Maurice Ledifficile View Post
When it comes to assessing the reality of something that has never been proven to exist, anecdotes are beyond useless. Credibility is meaningless.

An anecdote is an observation. Science is based on observations. Because something is yet unproven does not mean it does not exist.

Simple elementary logic.

Mind-science and consciousness is proving to be one of the hardest challenges.

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