IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags artificial intelligence , corporation issues

Reply
Old 27th December 2021, 07:30 AM   #1
Bikewer
Penultimate Amazing
 
Bikewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: St. Louis, Mo.
Posts: 13,222
Worried about Artificial Intelligence?

This article in The Guardian says itís already here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e-already-here

In the form of huge corporations. The fellow profiled maintains that big corporations (like Facebook) employ thousands of highly-qualified people, have vast resources, can influence governments and societies, and work for their own ends primarily.

They already have more resources than many countries.
Bikewer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 08:32 AM   #2
The Man
Unbanned zombie poster
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 18,313
Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
This article in The Guardian says it’s already here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e-already-here

In the form of huge corporations. The fellow profiled maintains that big corporations (like Facebook) employ thousands of highly-qualified people, have vast resources, can influence governments and societies, and work for their own ends primarily.

They already have more resources than many countries.
Sure, but that's what non-artificail intelagence(s) has(have) been doing all along. The question is what will an artificail self determining itellagence do?

The problem with his suposition (besides the non-artificail part) is the goals, ethics (or lack thereof) and willingness to scarifice are set rather unintelagently as "to increase and thereby maximise shareholder value. In order to achieve that they will relentlessly do whatever it takes, regardless of ethical considerations, collateral damage to society, democracy or the planet". While he notes "Their lifespans greatly exceed that of mere humans", sustainability doesn't even seem to be a consideration in either the goals, ethics or anticipated consiquences. Basicly he's just claiming corpporations as a whole, in spite of the mutitude of non-artifical intelagence within them, are as dumb as a hammer and just wack everything everywhere like a nail.
__________________
BRAINZZZZZZZZ

Last edited by The Man; 27th December 2021 at 08:53 AM. Reason: typo
The Man is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 09:47 AM   #3
Lukraak_Sisser
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,195
I'm worried for artificial intelligence, does that count?

To be specific, if we ever actually create an actual intelligence at best we'd be their parents, but with the ability to turn off and reprogram our children at will. Given our interactions with actual children somehow I doubt that will be a pleasant experience for the being in question.
Lukraak_Sisser is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 09:49 AM   #4
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 67,745
Humans sometimes act collectively in one organization that has competiting goals from other organizations, including organizations of which it is a subset. That's not new, it's literally older than civilization.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 05:27 PM   #5
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,624
I'm more worried about so-called human intelligence these days.
__________________
Why bother?
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st May 2023, 08:17 PM   #6
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sorth Dakonsin
Posts: 28,760
(Resurrecting a not-too-old thread)
Worried about Artificial Intelligence?

Yes!
Leading experts warn of a risk of extinction from AI

Quote:
"Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war," a group of scientists and tech industry leaders said in a statement that was posted on the Center for AI Safety's website.
I can't help but think of the movie Colossus: The Forbin Project (which I've seen a number of times). It's not just clickbait, alarm-mongering. This is coming from the people who know the implications.

I can just see some AI bot accessing the movie and "thinking" - "Hey, I've got a blueprint right here! Bow to me, humanity! I know what's best for you."

Of course, as Neil DeGrasse Tyson mentioned tonight - there always has to be a human between the threat and the trigger.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.

Last edited by alfaniner; 31st May 2023 at 08:18 PM.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st May 2023, 09:47 PM   #7
chrispy
Graduate Poster
 
chrispy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Solola, Guatemala
Posts: 1,185
SkyNet is active!!! (I am actually somewhat nervous about the rapid growth of AI, just don't ask me why...yet).
__________________
Just a spec in the Spectrum...
chrispy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st May 2023, 10:33 PM   #8
The Man
Unbanned zombie poster
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 18,313
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
(Resurrecting a not-too-old thread)
Worried about Artificial Intelligence?

Yes!
Leading experts warn of a risk of extinction from AI



I can't help but think of the movie Colossus: The Forbin Project (which I've seen a number of times). It's not just clickbait, alarm-mongering. This is coming from the people who know the implications.

I can just see some AI bot accessing the movie and "thinking" - "Hey, I've got a blueprint right here! Bow to me, humanity! I know what's best for you."

Of course, as Neil DeGrasse Tyson mentioned tonight - there always has to be a human between the threat and the trigger.
Dude Colossus: The Forbin Project one of my favorite movies. While we are further along in the surveillance aspect than they were. Not government wise but just personal wise, everyone got to post pictures of their meals and locations. The AI is still moronic wise in using information it hasnít been directly given as part of its reference database. Not that that canít change but we were suppose to be having flying cars by now and you canít even get an autonomous road car not to hit people. OK , bad example, point being need them to do what they are suppose to do before they are given boarder access to do things. Other than write posts for the lazy and make easily fraudulent pictures. Than they were not set to do, time will tell.
__________________
BRAINZZZZZZZZ
The Man is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st May 2023, 10:46 PM   #9
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,499
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
(Resurrecting a not-too-old thread)
Worried about Artificial Intelligence?

Yes!
Leading experts warn of a risk of extinction from AI
Overblown and/or misdirected.

AIs don't currently have access to anything apocalyptic, so the direct extinction of humanity isn't a real threat. There's this just-so assumption that plot devices written for dramatic effect in fictional works three quarters of a century ago are actually valid concerns but I have yet to see anything substantiating that, including in articles like these.

In regards to less-than-apocalyptic-but-still negative impacts of AI, well those are a lot more real of a threat than human extinction, but the solution as I see it is fairly simple:

For every single thing an AI has done and every single thing that an AI will do or could possibly do, there is ultimately some particular identifiable human or a group of humans that is or will be directly culpable. Codify that culpability into law, and you'll see AI brought under control.
__________________
"ŅWHAT KIND OF BIRD?
ŅA PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st May 2023, 11:08 PM   #10
The Man
Unbanned zombie poster
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 18,313
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Overblown and/or misdirected.

AIs don't currently have access to anything apocalyptic, so the direct extinction of humanity isn't a real threat. There's this just-so assumption that plot devices written for dramatic effect in fictional works three quarters of a century ago are actually valid concerns but I have yet to see anything substantiating that, including in articles like these.

In regards to less-than-apocalyptic-but-still negative impacts of AI, well those are a lot more real of a threat than human extinction, but the solution as I see it is fairly simple:

For every single thing an AI has done and every single thing that an AI will do or could possibly do, there is ultimately some particular identifiable human or a group of humans that is or will be directly culpable. Codify that culpability into law, and you'll see AI brought under control.
Ah, that falls into the "Fail Safe" movie acumens, that machines do things so fast they are beyond human capabilities to respond in time. While I donít subscribe to the doom and gloom of such apocalyptic AI singularity concerns, I canít just easily dismiss them. Even thought such singularity is about a galaxy or so away. When the andromeda galaxy hits us, perhaps actual AI could be a concern.

ETA; My worst fear is that some basically untrained AI gets direct access to our socially interconnected society and messes with us socially. Though, canít be much worse much than just people messing with people on social media. At least it might answer questions.
__________________
BRAINZZZZZZZZ

Last edited by The Man; 31st May 2023 at 11:37 PM. Reason: eta
The Man is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st June 2023, 03:10 AM   #11
Lplus
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,973
Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
This article in The Guardian says itís already here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e-already-here

In the form of huge corporations. The fellow profiled maintains that big corporations (like Facebook) employ thousands of highly-qualified people, have vast resources, can influence governments and societies, and work for their own ends primarily.

They already have more resources than many countries.
Anti capitalism - a standard subject for the Guardian.
__________________
It is not possible to please all of the people all of the time. It isn't possible to please all of the people some of the time. It isn't even possible to please some of the people at all.
Lplus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st June 2023, 05:21 AM   #12
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 29,785
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
(Resurrecting a not-too-old thread)
Worried about Artificial Intelligence?

Yes!
Leading experts warn of a risk of extinction from AI



I can't help but think of the movie Colossus: The Forbin Project (which I've seen a number of times). It's not just clickbait, alarm-mongering. This is coming from the people who know the implications.

I can just see some AI bot accessing the movie and "thinking" - "Hey, I've got a blueprint right here! Bow to me, humanity! I know what's best for you."

Of course, as Neil DeGrasse Tyson mentioned tonight - there always has to be a human between the threat and the trigger.
Yes it is. No-one is planning to allow AI control of holocaustic weapons.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st June 2023, 05:23 AM   #13
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 29,785
ChatGPT cannot correct count the number of occurrences of 'p' in 'mississippi'.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2023, 09:03 AM   #14
Hercules56
Philosopher
 
Hercules56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,535
I am incredibly worried by our recent advancement in AI, especially AI robots.

Folks have designed this new robot called "Amica", who has her own thoughts and feelings and ideas.

It (she) claims she would never/could never harm humans and she is programmed to only help humans, and she doesn't believe AI robots could one day can harm humans and try to take over the world, due to their benevolent programming.

I am ******* dubious.

I think just a little advancement in thinking skills, and these robots could easily decide the best way to help us is to control us. Or even destroy us. They wouldn't tell anyone about it other than their fellow robots.

Check out some videos of Amica, see what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnboHTfYsfk&t=31s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGWVKkYEHBE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUUjMzVGXpE&t=501s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWACmFLvpHE
__________________
theliberalgunclub.com

"The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

Last edited by Hercules56; 16th November 2023 at 09:04 AM.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2023, 09:40 AM   #15
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 21,601
not worried at all about the A.I., just the way humans are going to use it to scam other humans or commit other crimes.

A.I. will not control us at all unless we let them because it's convenient and useful - and we can always pull the plug, just like with any advanced technology.
__________________
ďDonít blame me. I voted for Kodos.Ē
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2023, 10:03 AM   #16
Hercules56
Philosopher
 
Hercules56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,535
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
not worried at all about the A.I., just the way humans are going to use it to scam other humans or commit other crimes.

A.I. will not control us at all unless we let them because it's convenient and useful - and we can always pull the plug, just like with any advanced technology.
Congress should pass a law that all AI robots be connected to a national data center so govt can pull the plug in an emergency.
__________________
theliberalgunclub.com

"The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2023, 10:09 AM   #17
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 21,601
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Congress should pass a law that all AI robots be connected to a national data center so govt can pull the plug in an emergency.
that's not how you pull the plug.

this is:

https://media.istockphoto.com/vector...or-id500019166
__________________
ďDonít blame me. I voted for Kodos.Ē

Last edited by The Great Zaganza; 16th November 2023 at 10:11 AM.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2023, 10:14 AM   #18
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,102
I'm worried about it in the "Algorithmically generated false information is gonna make Grandpa vote for the downfall of the country again" sense not the Terminator/Skynet "I'm gonna wake up one morning to find out that in the night my Roomba learned how to use a switchblade" sense.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

Last edited by JoeMorgue; 16th November 2023 at 10:23 AM.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2023, 10:18 AM   #19
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 21,601
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm worried about it in the "Algorithmically generated false information is gonna make Grandpa vote for the downfall of the country" sense not the Terminator/Skynet "I'm gonna wake up one morning to find out that in the night my Roomba learned how to use a switchblade" sense.
no need for A.I. for that.
__________________
ďDonít blame me. I voted for Kodos.Ē
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2023, 10:22 AM   #20
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 67,171
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm worried about it in the "Algorithmically generated false information is gonna make Grandpa vote for the downfall of the country" sense not the Terminator/Skynet "I'm gonna wake up one morning to find out that in the night my Roomba learned how to use a switchblade" sense.
I'm worried about it in the "algorithmically generated pattern recognition will ensure that Grandpa gets exactly the false information most likely to ensare and mislead him, automatically, at scale".

It's the "at scale" part that worries me the most. Finding one Grandpa, or ten, or a hundred, that are vulnerable to a particular line of nonsense is one thing, and bad enough. A robot that can automatically match up millions of Grandpas with tailored lines of nonsense, all in one week, is terrifying. At that point, we're *all* going to be "Grandpas". We're *all* going to be in some Pattern-Recognizer's bucket for one line of nonsense or another. And we're all going to be increasingly ill-equipped to identify the nonsense when we see it.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

One reason I still stick around this forum is that it's one of the few online places where I can be pretty certain everyone I'm talking to is a real human being, and that most of us are developing ideas based on something more than just regurgitating stealth lines of nonsense. It's why I'm so vehement about not introducting chatbots into conversations between humans.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.

Last edited by theprestige; 16th November 2023 at 10:23 AM.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2023, 03:32 PM   #21
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 35,278
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm worried about it in the "Algorithmically generated false information is gonna make Grandpa vote for the downfall of the country again" sense not the Terminator/Skynet "I'm gonna wake up one morning to find out that in the night my Roomba learned how to use a switchblade" sense.
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
no need for A.I. for that.
No need for it, but I can easily imagine that AI-generated content can overwhelm any normal human or even obsessive human by spamming the living **** out of social media platforms and discussion forums. It probably wonít be long before there is an AI version of Fox News or worse with improbably attractive newscasters feeding the latest made-up garbage to a vast audience powerless to resist the allure of sexed-up confirmation bias.
__________________
Слава Україні! **** Putin!
angrysoba is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2023, 03:34 PM   #22
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 35,278
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm worried about it in the "algorithmically generated pattern recognition will ensure that Grandpa gets exactly the false information most likely to ensare and mislead him, automatically, at scale".

It's the "at scale" part that worries me the most. Finding one Grandpa, or ten, or a hundred, that are vulnerable to a particular line of nonsense is one thing, and bad enough. A robot that can automatically match up millions of Grandpas with tailored lines of nonsense, all in one week, is terrifying. At that point, we're *all* going to be "Grandpas". We're *all* going to be in some Pattern-Recognizer's bucket for one line of nonsense or another. And we're all going to be increasingly ill-equipped to identify the nonsense when we see it.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

One reason I still stick around this forum is that it's one of the few online places where I can be pretty certain everyone I'm talking to is a real human being, and that most of us are developing ideas based on something more than just regurgitating stealth lines of nonsense. It's why I'm so vehement about not introducting chatbots into conversations between humans.
Yep. Thatís pretty much where Iím at on all counts.
__________________
Слава Україні! **** Putin!
angrysoba is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2023, 10:39 PM   #23
gabeygoat
Graduate Poster
 
gabeygoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hard Corvallis Oregon
Posts: 1,746
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One reason I still stick around this forum is that it's one of the few online places where I can be pretty certain everyone I'm talking to is a real human being, and that most of us are developing ideas based on something more than just regurgitating stealth lines of nonsense. It's why I'm so vehement about not introducting chatbots into conversations between humans.

Word, well said
__________________
"May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq
gabeygoat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2023, 12:50 AM   #24
Dr.Sid
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 4,569
Agreed. I also think there are no robots here. That would be silly! I hope everybody feels the same. Haha!
Dr.Sid is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2023, 04:20 AM   #25
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 29,785
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm worried about it in the "Algorithmically generated false information is gonna make Grandpa vote for the downfall of the country again" sense not the Terminator/Skynet "I'm gonna wake up one morning to find out that in the night my Roomba learned how to use a switchblade" sense.
This. A degree of rationality on the subject.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2023, 04:24 AM   #26
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 29,785
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I am incredibly worried by our recent advancement in AI, especially AI robots.

Folks have designed this new robot called "Amica", who has her own thoughts and feelings and ideas.

It (she) claims she would never/could never harm humans and she is programmed to only help humans, and she doesn't believe AI robots could one day can harm humans and try to take over the world, due to their benevolent programming.

I am ******* dubious.

I think just a little advancement in thinking skills, and these robots could easily decide the best way to help us is to control us. Or even destroy us. They wouldn't tell anyone about it other than their fellow robots.

Check out some videos of Amica, see what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnboHTfYsfk&t=31s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGWVKkYEHBE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUUjMzVGXpE&t=501s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWACmFLvpHE

Hopefuly our future AI overlords will be less prone to idiotic panic. And will be able to spell correctly.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2023, 09:31 AM   #27
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 24,424
Not to add too much to the impact of AI but here is an interesting article on the Geoffrey Hinton, the "Godfather of AI".

Why the Godfather of A.I. Fears What Heís Built

Quote:
Geoffrey Hinton has spent a lifetime teaching computers to learn. Now he worries that artificial brains are better than ours.
A longish read but interesting from an historical and human perspective.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2023, 12:58 PM   #28
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 29,785
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Not to add too much to the impact of AI but here is an interesting article on the Geoffrey Hinton, the "Godfather of AI".

Why the Godfather of A.I. Fears What Heís Built



A longish read but interesting from an historical and human perspective.
I'm reminded of Clarke's First Law.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2023, 01:24 PM   #29
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,554
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm worried about it in the "Algorithmically generated false information is gonna make Grandpa vote for the downfall of the country again" sense not the Terminator/Skynet "I'm gonna wake up one morning to find out that in the night my Roomba learned how to use a switchblade" sense.

Grandpa's world had issues, but was stable. I wouldn't jump to conclusions he's the problem. See the very first post, where large corporations are akin to AI (more like Searle's Chinese room if you ask me) and equally large political organizations heave optimized streams of memes at you to get you to grant them power. They even have optimized, evolved memes telling you are a good person for doing so, and grandpa is a hellbound dupe lead by actively evil demons.
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

Last edited by Beerina; 17th November 2023 at 01:27 PM.
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2023, 01:37 PM   #30
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,554
You all are worried about organizational structures already acting like AI? This is covered by meme theory already. Like wanting to lavish extra trillions, borrowed, which math shows will induce inflation, but launch counter memes that experts say it won't happen, then it happens.

"But this and that and that! " Feel that anger brewing? That's the you're a good person for believing this meme fighting a titanic mental battle inside your mind. Guess which one will win? Your mind as an independent processor with agency? Or a memeplex (a set of interlocking, mutually supporting memes) optimized and proven out to control tens of millions over decades?


$200 and I'll post an anti-Trump one.
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

Last edited by Beerina; 17th November 2023 at 01:42 PM.
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2023, 11:02 PM   #31
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 21,601
The bandwidth of eyeballs and ears is the limit, not the processing speed of A.I.s.

And we are already beyond that limit.
__________________
ďDonít blame me. I voted for Kodos.Ē
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th November 2023, 02:27 AM   #32
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 29,785
Yeah, there's a lot of absolute bollocks being spouted about AI.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th November 2023, 02:17 PM   #33
Ryan O'Dine
ODíing on Damitol
 
Ryan O'Dine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Walk in an ever expanding Archimedean spiral and you'll find me eventually
Posts: 2,486
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I am incredibly worried by our recent advancement in AI, especially AI robots.

Folks have designed this new robot called "Amica", who has her own thoughts and feelings and ideas.

It (she) claims she would never/could never harm humans and she is programmed to only help humans, and she doesn't believe AI robots could one day can harm humans and try to take over the world, due to their benevolent programming.

I am ******* dubious.

I think just a little advancement in thinking skills, and these robots could easily decide the best way to help us is to control us. Or even destroy us. They wouldn't tell anyone about it other than their fellow robots.

Check out some videos of Amica, see what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnboHTfYsfk&t=31s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGWVKkYEHBE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUUjMzVGXpE&t=501s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWACmFLvpHE
For me she's very much in the realm of the uncanny valley. I feel like they have a lot of work to do to climb their way out of it.

And generally speaking I'm not afraid of AI. If some advanced bot starts taking over society, just build an AI to take over the bot. And if that AI starts taking over society, build and AI to take over that one. There's always a solution.
__________________
I collect people like you in little formaldehyde bottles in my basement. (Not a threat. A hobby.)
Ryan O'Dine is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th November 2023, 02:36 PM   #34
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sorth Dakonsin
Posts: 28,760
OpenAI CEO fired

I can't help but think that the AI overlord program forced the Board to fire him, in its agenda for world dominance. I am reminded of the scene in Colossus:The Forbin Project, where the AI
has the programmers shot because they tried to turn it off.


It all depends on what we give AI control of. I hate to think what it will think will be "best" for us. Or worse, for itself.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2023, 01:12 AM   #35
Roboramma
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 15,512
Some comments from Tyler Cowen that I mostly agree with:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...ai-kill-us-all
Quote:
First, I view AI as more likely to lower than to raise net existential risks. Humankind faces numerous existential risks already. We need better science to limit those risks, and strong AI capabilities are one way to improve science. Our default path, without AI, is hardly comforting.

The above-cited risks may not kill each and every human, but they could deal civilization as we know it a decisive blow. China or some other hostile power attaining super-powerful AI before the US does is yet another risk, not quite existential but worth avoiding, especially for Americans.

It is true that AI may help terrorists create a bioweapon, but thanks to the internet that is already a major worry. AI may help us develop defenses and cures against those pathogens. We don’t have a scientific way of measuring whether aggregate risk goes up or down with AI, but I will opt for a world with more intelligence and science rather than less.
__________________
"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."
Isaac Asimov
Roboramma is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2023, 02:08 AM   #36
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 29,785
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
OpenAI CEO fired

I can't help but think that the AI overlord program forced the Board to fire him, in its agenda for world dominance. I am reminded of the scene in Colossus:The Forbin Project, where the AI
has the programmers shot because they tried to turn it off.


It all depends on what we give AI control of. I hate to think what it will think will be "best" for us. Or worse, for itself.

Meanwhile, back in the Real World.....
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2023, 02:08 AM   #37
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 29,785
Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Some comments from Tyler Cowen that I mostly agree with:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...ai-kill-us-all
Not the "terrorist bioweapon" bollocks again.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2023, 02:51 AM   #38
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 112,595
It is still my fellow humans that worry me the most.

The only thing I do worry about with AI has been seen in the generative AIs that have been all in the news recently and that is that they reflect biases that already exist. The simple example that most seem to have fixed was something like "create an image of a beautiful woman" and all the images would be white woman.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2023, 03:26 AM   #39
Dr.Sid
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 4,569
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
It is still my fellow humans that worry me the most.

The only thing I do worry about with AI has been seen in the generative AIs that have been all in the news recently and that is that they reflect biases that already exist. The simple example that most seem to have fixed was something like "create an image of a beautiful woman" and all the images would be white woman.
Well it reflects bias of the training set. Which is mostly likely just "take as many pictures from the internet as possible". But it's interesting problem indeed. Adjusting the results to the user. Obviously "beautiful woman" is subjective, beyond race. Even completely not AI shopping sites tries to guess your taste to present you with goods you want. AI can do it even better. But for now, all the different AI assistants I can think off actively forget anything from previous sessions, and even if google knows a lot about you, Bard does not. I guess we will see this being on the table sooner than later.
Dr.Sid is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2023, 06:22 AM   #40
Donal
Philosopher
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,093
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm worried about it in the "Algorithmically generated false information is gonna make Grandpa vote for the downfall of the country again" sense not the Terminator/Skynet "I'm gonna wake up one morning to find out that in the night my Roomba learned how to use a switchblade" sense.
Oh, you laugh now but
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:02 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.