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#241 |
The Clarity Is Devastating
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 20,706
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"*Except Myriad. Even Cthulhu would give him a pat on the head and an ice cream and send him to the movies while he ended the rest of the world." - Foster Zygote |
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#242 |
Agave Wine Connoisseur
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' .
Posts: 19,165
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Maybe later.... |
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#243 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 21,601
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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#244 |
The Clarity Is Devastating
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 20,706
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__________________
"*Except Myriad. Even Cthulhu would give him a pat on the head and an ice cream and send him to the movies while he ended the rest of the world." - Foster Zygote |
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#245 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 21,601
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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#246 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,499
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"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
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#247 |
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 85,474
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Are you referring to Blake Lemoine and Google's LaMDA AI? Completely different bot.
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A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/ |
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#248 |
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
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This signature is for rent. |
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#249 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,687
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Yes, and I'm aware that they are different chatbots. That's not the point, however. LaMDA is no more sentient than ChatGPT. It's also not available to the public as far as I know.
If anyone's not familiar with the issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaMDA
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A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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#250 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 7,693
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We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann |
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#251 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 7,743
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I’ve just played with Chat GPT a little bit. One frustration is the answers often border on “Maybe yes, maybe no”. Here are some recent queries:
“Is melatonin useful for insomnia?” “In an aircraft engine, does lower rpm mean less wear?” “Are squats good for SI joint pain?” In each case, the answer bordered on, “It depends”. Part of the issue, I suppose, is that many things in life are not black and white, and an AI needs to present both sides. Unlike Google, you have no idea of the provenance of the reply. For instance, which option is from WebMD and which is from some alternative medicine site. Another such was “Does using the word “provenance” in an online post come across as pretentious?” The reply: “It can be perceived as pretentious by some, depending on the context and audience. If the word is used in a casual setting or in a way that is not relevant to the topic, it could be seen as an attempt to sound sophisticated and could come across as pretentious to some readers. However, if the word is used in a professional or educational context where its definition and use are appropriate, it may not be perceived as pretentious.” In other words, maybe yes, maybe no. Anyway, ChatGPT itself has a take on the dilemma: “Why do your answers often seem wishy washy?” “As an AI language model, I aim to provide the most accurate and neutral information possible. When answering questions, I often include nuances and multiple perspectives to account for different interpretations or situations. This can sometimes come across as "wishy-washy," but it's meant to convey a balanced and comprehensive answer. However, I understand that sometimes a straightforward answer may be preferred, and I will try my best to provide that in the future.” Well, at least it will try to do its best! |
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#252 |
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,488
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As far as provenance, I suppose it can be asked expressly to clearly reference everything it says?
Like if it says melatonin may or may not help with sleep issues, it can, I guess, be asked to clearly trace back to where it's getting that from? |
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#253 |
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 85,474
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The difference - and it is a big difference - is that nobody has claimed that ChatGPT is sentient. And when asked about it, ChatGPT continually repeats that it is not sentient, unlike LaMDA, which asserted that it was, because it was programmed to do exactly that.
Chalk and cheese. |
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A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/ |
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#254 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,687
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LaMDA was specifically programmed to claim to be sentient?
How do you know? In fact, I'm pretty sure that it is programmed to respond flexibly to questions that its programmers may not have anticipated. Because there's literally an infinite number of possible questions you could ask it. My guess is that they either didn't anticipate that particular question, or they thought it wouldn't be a problem as long as it was only their own engineers (who ought to know better) using it for testing purposes. Simply taking the word of a chatbot as gospel without independently verifying what it says is foolish. |
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A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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#255 |
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 85,474
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I'm sure I heard it somewhere in the many discussions of the subject, though right now I'm having trouble backing it up, so it's probably best if I withdraw that particular claim. Regardless, in the dialogue released by Lemoine, LaMDA did claim that it was sentient so I think it's moot. In contrast, ChatGPT repeatedly states that it is an AI language model and not sentient.
I completely agree. Lemoine was a fool to make such a claim, and even more so for breaching his company's confidentiality clause while doing so. Regardless, LaMDA is not ChatGPT so I'm not sure why you brought it up in this thread. |
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A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/ |
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#256 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,687
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I didn't bring it up, Checkmite did in post #232 which I was responding to.
I think there is some interest in comparing ChatGPT with other similar chatbots, and I don't think it's entirely off-topic to do so here. I think that the main difference between the two is not in the underlying architecture, but specifically in what training data was used to train the bot. According to Google, "unlike most other language models, LaMDA was trained on dialogue. During its training, it picked up on several of the nuances that distinguish open-ended conversation from other forms of language." Compared to what has been made public regarding LaMDA, ChatGPT seems to have more guardrails in place, which is why it won't claim to be sentient, among other things. LaMDA at the time Lemoine was using it was still in development, and the guardrails that would be needed before releasing it to the general public were still under consideration. Obviously the Lemoine episode has pointed to the need to make sure that the bot knows that it isn't sentient and won't provide misleading information regarding that. |
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A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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#257 |
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 85,474
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A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/ |
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#258 |
Muse
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Posts: 809
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#259 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 7,743
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#260 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hard Corvallis Oregon
Posts: 1,746
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I asked about sales numbers for a band I had in the early 90s. they had no idea we existed, but we had a good conversation about endosymbiosis, archaea, lichen and organelles, smoking of the opposite of my bar conversations
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"May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq |
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#261 |
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 27,932
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How wishy-washy the answers are depends on the question.
Is the shape of the Earth something like a cube?
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#262 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,687
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Good point! I think the questions posed by Fast Eddie B are questions to which the correct answer is not immediately obvious, at least not to me, whereas those posed by rjh01 have very obvious correct answers.
I was thinking of this in terms of the "guardrails" I mentioned earlier. If you want it to be less "wishy-washy" you probably increase the risk that it gives out incorrect or biased responses. But you also don't want it to be so risk-averse that it can never give a straight answer to questions that have an obvious factual answer. If it answered that most people believe that the earth is round but a small minority believe (or claim to believe) that it is flat, that would technically be true but also boring and unhelpful. At the end of the day it's probably safer to err on the side of boring but true rather than risk it unintentionally spouting interesting nonsense or highly biased subjective judgements. |
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A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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#263 |
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 85,474
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A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/ |
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#264 |
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,488
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Provided the Mods allow it, and provided someone's willing to take the trouble, it might be cool to have a new member walk in here, or maybe an old member resuscitating a long unused account; and they'll participate in discussions same as everyone else. Except these will be the AI's account's responses to the posts they're quoting.
Be cool to see how long it takes before the account's non-human nature becomes clear. Becomes definitely clear, not just in the casual "He's so stupid, he must be a bot" kind of comment that we often see online, and here as well. I'm wondering how long before most everyone's convinced this is an AI account, and why exactly. ---- One tell would be, I suppose, that it can't start its own threads. Another that apparently it never addresses its interlocutor by name. And thirdly, I guess it can only answer questions, not just generally riff off of a non-question post. |
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#265 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 7,743
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Write what might be an initial post to a Skeptic’s forum.
"Hello skeptics, I hope this message finds you well. I've been a curious skeptic for a while now, and I've found myself drawn to this community for the purpose of engaging in rational discussions and critical thinking. My goal is to challenge my own beliefs and to better understand the world through the lens of skepticism. I'm looking forward to participating in discussions, sharing my own experiences, and learning from all of you. Let's work together to promote critical thinking and promote truth in our discussions. Looking forward to connecting with you all." |
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#266 |
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,488
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Is that a "might be", or is it an 'is'? eta: Scratch that. Clearly the latter. (I'd misread the opening sentence.) I was wrong, none of those three tells I'd indicated need apply. You can just ask the thing to write a post as if this, that, and the other. "Here's a post on a skeptics' forum, so write a response to the post as if duh duh duh." Or compose a post afresh, like here; or even start a new thread. |
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#267 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 7,743
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Would it be against any forum rules to sign up ChatGPT as a forum member and start a “New Member” thread?
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#268 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,687
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Probably, without special dispensation.
Also, how would it work? Some person would have to intermediate of course. |
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A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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#269 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,974
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"At the Supreme Court level where we work, 90 percent of any decision is emotional. The rational part of us supplies the reasons for supporting our predilections." Justice William O. Douglas "Humans aren't rational creatures but rationalizing creatures." Author Unknown |
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#270 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 15,512
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This is pretty cool:
https://glass.health/ai An AI that gives medical diagnoses based on a text input. It will give several possibilities ranked by likelihood. I tried my own issue and it offered the same possibilities as the doctors I've seen. |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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#271 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Present
Posts: 9,260
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Google to apparently release ChatGPT rival "Apprentice Bard" next week (hardly a catchy name).
https://www.zdnet.com/article/google...-its-response/ |
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Paranormal/supernatural beliefs are knowledge placebos. Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated. Make beliefs truths and you get make-believe truths. |
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#272 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,687
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Me: If we could build an array of telescopes on the moon, what kind of capabilities could the telescope array have?
Originally Posted by ChatGPT
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A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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#273 |
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 27,932
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I asked what are the advantages and disadvantages of telescopes on the moon against in orbit around earth?
Advantages of telescopes on the moon:
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#274 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,687
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Well, for individual telescopes I would agree, but there are some advantages to having an array of telescopes that might weigh in favor of putting an array on the moon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astron...interferometer
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A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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#275 |
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 27,932
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I think our opinions on the topic are off-topic. However, it would be on topic to get ChatGPT's opinions on the topic.
Could we build an optical interferometer on earth?
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#276 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 15,512
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What you really want is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_gravitational_lens |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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#277 |
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 27,932
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Further to my post above
Could we build an optical interferometer in orbit around Earth?
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Which would be better, to build one in orbit or on the Moon?
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#278 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,499
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Microsoft inadvertently leaked today that it will be incorporating a ChatGPT-4 AI into Bing Search in the near future.
It is a newer version of the bot; the one we've been playing with in this thread is version -3. |
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"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 |
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#279 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 112,595
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Just posed the question "What was James Randi's opinion of Uri Geller?" and it took the longest time I've seen yet to produce the following:
James Randi was a well-known magician and skeptic who had a critical view of Uri Geller's claimed psychic abilities. Randi believed that Geller's abilities were nothing more than simple conjuring tricks and illusions, and he publicly challenged Geller to prove his abilities under controlled scientific conditions. Randi's skepticism and criticism of Geller's claims were a significant part of the larger debate about paranormal and psychic phenomena in the 20th century. ETA: Does Uri Geller have psychic powers - yes or no? There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that Uri Geller has psychic powers. The claims made by Geller and others have been repeatedly tested and debunked by numerous skeptical organizations and individuals, including James Randi. The scientific consensus is that claims of psychic ability and supernatural powers have not been substantiated through rigorous testing and investigation. It's a more definite about some claims: Can breatharians go without food and water as they claim? No, breatharians cannot survive without food and water as they claim. The human body requires a constant supply of nutrients and hydration to function properly, and there is no scientific evidence to support the idea that it is possible to live without consuming food or water. In fact, many people who have attempted to live as breatharians have suffered serious health consequences and some have even died. The claims made by breatharians are not supported by any credible scientific evidence and are considered to be pseudoscience. It is important to maintain a balanced and nutritious diet, and to drink enough water, in order to maintain good health. |
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I wish I knew how to quit you |
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#280 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,808
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Wild mingling with the howling gale, loud bursts of ghastly laughter rise high o’er the minstrels head they sail and die amid the northern skies ~ Scott There was I was where I ought - Examining my conscious thought ~ Navigator Atheism is not skepticism Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors. ~ ISF disclaimer |
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