Continuation Musk buys Twitter II

[TurkeysGhost]

Originally Posted by Bogative

Musk should be called out on this one, he is either a free speech absolutist or not. If groomers want to use slurs against other people, they should be allowed to.

I'm really wondering if Twitter even has the capability to deal with any invented new slurs, other than the small handful of people who personally complain to Musk and get special treatment.

The general impression is that the new skeleton crew Twitter does not have much moderating capacity generally.

[Gulliver Foyle]

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

Despite pandering to American reactionaries, Musk is suspiciously silent on the normal anti-China tropes that are common on the right.

Presumably Musk doesn't want to alienate the huge Chinese market for his electric cars.

Which is funny because Teslas don't have a market in China.

[jeremyp]

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

Which is funny because Teslas don't have a market in China.

Without wishing to derail the thread, Tesla does have a market in China. They have a factory there and sold more than 400 thousand vehicles in China last year.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ty-2023-06-16/

The linked story gives us one good reason why Musk should be pandering to the Chinese.

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by jeremyp

Without wishing to derail the thread, Tesla does have a market in China. They have a factory there and sold more than 400 thousand vehicles in China last year.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ty-2023-06-16/

The linked story gives us one good reason why Musk should be pandering to the Chinese.

Was just about to correct Gulliver on same. However, China is notorious for ripping off the IP of foreign businesses within China. Coming up just as soon as they feel like it Telstar, who just happens to have the Model Z, which just happens to share 98% of components with the Tesla Model Y.

[Fast Eddie B]

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

Which is funny because Teslas don't have a market in China.

Certainly spoken with authority!

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by jeremyp

Without wishing to derail the thread, Tesla does have a market in China. They have a factory there and sold more than 400 thousand vehicles in China last year.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ty-2023-06-16/

The linked story gives us one good reason why Musk should be pandering to the Chinese.

Giant pandering.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by catsmate

I see Musk and Twitter are being sued over music piracy. Apparently ignoring the law and imposing his one view on copyright isn't popular.............

Not to mentiion a couple of recent movies have been leaked on twitter with a day of their theatriccal run started....

[dudalb]

But Musk is a genius? He will make Twitter bigger then ever? You just wait, you doubters and haters!

[Orphia Nay]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Giant pandering.

Nominated.

[jeremyp]

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

Nominated.

Dammit. I thought of the pun will writing my comment but decided not to make anything of it, but I could have got nom'd.

[jeremyp]

Linda Yaccarino seems to have decided to start paying the bills again.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...overdue-bills/

[TurkeysGhost]

Twitter is now severely rate limited, possibly as a result of it not paying its Google hosting bills on time and not finding a suitable replacement. Musk claims this is to battle scrapers, but this excuse doesn't pass the sniff test and would be incredibly idiotic even if true

Quote:

Elon Musk on Saturday announced temporary tweet-viewing rate limits restricting how many posts un-verified Twitter users can see, blaming "extreme levels of data scraping & system manipulation" for the limited functionality — but the site's former head of trust and safety says that argument "doesn't pass the sniff test."

"To address extreme levels of data scraping & system manipulation, we've applied the following temporary limits," Musk announced on Twitter in the first of a series of tweets about the decision. Throughout the day, Musk continued posting about the rate limits, increasing the number of posts users could view each time.

As of 10 a.m. Saturday, verified accounts for paid users were initially limited to reading 6,000 posts per day, with existing unverified accounts limited to reading 600 posts per day and new unverified accounts only 300 per day. By 3 p.m., per Musk's tweets, those numbers increased to 10k, 1k, and 0.5k, respectively.


...


The limited functionality on Twitter comes amid a scramble to negotiate with Google over cloud storage services after Platformer reported in June that Musk had refused to make payments toward Twitter's existing $1 billion contract with the search giant.

Bloomberg later reported, under Linda Yaccarino's leadership, Twitter has resumed making payments on the contract with Google for essential cloud storage space. Still, negotiations about the future of the partnership are ongoing.

One Twitter commenter likened a social media rate limit like a casino installing large picture windows by the slot machines to remind degenerate gamblers of the passage of time and the outside world. A rate limit is a good reminder to touch grass, but keeping users endlessly scrolling is generally desirable for social media companies who make their profits from eyes looking at advertising.

[Babbylonian]

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

Twitter is now severely rate limited, possibly as a result of it not paying its Google hosting bills on time and not finding a suitable replacement. Musk claims this is to battle scrapers, but this excuse doesn't pass the sniff test and would be incredibly idiotic even if true



One Twitter commenter likened a social media rate limit like a casino installing large picture windows by the slot machines to remind degenerate gamblers of the passage of time and the outside world. A rate limit is a good reminder to touch grass, but keeping users endlessly scrolling is generally desirable for social media companies who make their profits from eyes looking at advertising.

As darkly satirized in Black Mirror that's the whole ballgame for social media companies.

[arthwollipot]

Twitter faces lawsuit over alleged non-payment for office services in four countries

Quote:

Australia-based company Facilitate seeks more than A$1m for work done at offices in London, Dublin, Sydney and Singapore


Twitter is facing another lawsuit after the company was accused of failing to pay for services for offices in London, Dublin, Sydney and Singapore.

Sydney-based infrastructure company Facilitate is seeking a collective payment over A$1m ($666,000) across the three businesses in alleged owed payments dating back to October last year, when Elon Musk bought Twitter.

Facilitate provided sensor installation in London and Dublin and an office fit-out in Singapore, while in Australia, Facilitate decommissioned Twitter’s Sydney office and temporarily stored its contents, according to case documents obtained by the Guardian.

The company claims it is owed £203,115, SGD$546,596, and A$61,318, respectively.

[TurkeysGhost]

Lots of talk that Twitter is in a death spiral, but now a real opportunity to test that theory.

Meta is releasing a Twitter-clone on Thursday called "threads". Unlike the much discussed Bluesky app which is in invite-only beta, Threads is going wide open for open signups from the start.

With Musk paywalling useful tools and generally making Twitter less functional and generally less attractive for most users, it's going to be an interesting experiment if that's enough incentive for users to make the switch to an untested competitor.

Quote:

Meta’s executives have discussed how to capitalize on the chaos at Twitter since last year, including by building a rival service. “Twitter is in crisis and Meta needs its mojo back,” one Meta employee wrote in an internal post last year, according to a report in December by The New York Times. “LET’S GO FOR THEIR BREAD AND BUTTER.”

That has resulted in Threads, a crash project spun out of Instagram and internally code-named Project 92. Users will be able to log into Threads using their Instagram account, according to photo previews of the app displayed in Apple’s App Store.

Meta executives previously characterized the app as a “sanely run” version of a public-facing social network, in a not-so-subtle jab at Mr. Musk’s erratic behavior.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/03/t...p-twitter.html

[ZirconBlue]

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

Lots of talk that Twitter is in a death spiral, but now a real opportunity to test that theory.

Meta is releasing a Twitter-clone on Thursday called "threads". Unlike the much discussed Bluesky app which is in invite-only beta, Threads is going wide open for open signups from the start.

With Musk paywalling useful tools and generally making Twitter less functional and generally less attractive for most users, it's going to be an interesting experiment if that's enough incentive for users to make the switch to an untested competitor.



https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/03/t...p-twitter.html

I don't understand all these different services. Doesn't Facebook already have all the functionality of Threads and Instagram (and Twitter for that matter) as it is?

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by ZirconBlue

I don't understand all these different services. Doesn't Facebook already have all the functionality of Threads and Instagram (and Twitter for that matter) as it is?

No. Different function, different presentation, different methods.

[Puppycow]

Making a rival social media service with a similar presentation and function is easy. Actually getting users to switch is not so easy.

Although Musk is helping to incentivize Twitter users to actually look for alternatives.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Making a rival social media service with a similar presentation and function is easy. Actually getting users to switch is not so easy.

Although Musk is helping to incentivize Twitter users to actually look for alternatives.

That's why Meta is leveraging their existing very large Instagram user base.

[jeremyp]

Am I the only person concerned that Meta now controls Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp and now possibly the new Twitter?

Somebody needs to step in and break this company up.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

That's why Meta is leveraging their existing very large Instagram user base.

It makes sense given how Instagram is used, especially by the "publicly prominent", but surprised they've done it as a separate app.

[TurkeysGhost]

It's still early, but things I've noticed about threads:

The good:
- it basically looks like a clone of Twitter, just without all the dumb **** that Musk has added. It's wide open to the public and you have to assume that Facebook has the infrastructure to on board as many people as want to join, allowing it to be available as an alternative as Musk incrementally makes Twitter worse. (Unlike Bluesky, which is much talked about but seems to be in extended beta that is invite-only, probably because they simply do not have the infrastructure for a larger user base at this time)

The bad:

- There's no chronological feed of only people you follow. This is a huge misstep in my opinion and tons of people are whining about it. A chronological feed of only people you follow is the core of Twitter's popularity and even with all the bloat and algorithmic content that has been added to it over the years, it remains the heart of the social media site that attracts people. I don't want to see what the algorithm thinks I want to see, I want to see the people I chose to follow are posting.

- People also whining about how it really, really wants you to link an instagram account. Wasn't an issue for me because I didn't have an instagram account, but for people who do it's a bit hard to set up a stand alone account. People are understandably reluctant to be so overtly tied up in the Zuck extended universe where Facebook, instagram, and Threads are all linked in such a heavy handed way (even if that's obviously going to be the case at the very least behind the scenes). Semi anonymity is a big feature of Twitter that people like

- No direct messages or group chats yet. Presumably this is a feature coming soon.

- Apparently not available in the EU because of noncompliance to data privacy laws.

If they added a chronological, follower-only feed soon I think Twitter could really be in danger of a mass exodus, which is saying a lot because it's not like people are big fans of Zuck or the extended Facebook universe.

[Gulliver Foyle]

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

It's still early, but things I've noticed about threads:

The good:
- it basically looks like a clone of Twitter, just without all the dumb **** that Musk has added. It's wide open to the public and you have to assume that Facebook has the infrastructure to on board as many people as want to join, allowing it to be available as an alternative as Musk incrementally makes Twitter worse. (Unlike Bluesky, which is much talked about but seems to be in extended beta that is invite-only, probably because they simply do not have the infrastructure for a larger user base at this time)

The bad:

- There's no chronological feed of only people you follow. This is a huge misstep in my opinion and tons of people are whining about it. A chronological feed of only people you follow is the core of Twitter's popularity and even with all the bloat and algorithmic content that has been added to it over the years, it remains the heart of the social media site that attracts people. I don't want to see what the algorithm thinks I want to see, I want to see the people I chose to follow are posting.

- People also whining about how it really, really wants you to link an instagram account. Wasn't an issue for me because I didn't have an instagram account, but for people who do it's a bit hard to set up a stand alone account. People are understandably reluctant to be so overtly tied up in the Zuck extended universe where Facebook, instagram, and Threads are all linked in such a heavy handed way (even if that's obviously going to be the case at the very least behind the scenes). Semi anonymity is a big feature of Twitter that people like

- No direct messages or group chats yet. Presumably this is a feature coming soon.

- Apparently not available in the EU because of noncompliance to data privacy laws.

If they added a chronological, follower-only feed soon I think Twitter could really be in danger of a mass exodus, which is saying a lot because it's not like people are big fans of Zuck or the extended Facebook universe.

The data privacy issues relate to more than GDPR, it also includes Zuckerberg's companies long standing direct theft of their customers' data and the allowing and encouragement of same by third parties. The EU are coming down very hard on Zuckerberg and will continue to do so for years to come.

[Darat]

It's also because they want to move the data out of the EU.

[ZirconBlue]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

No. Different function, different presentation, different methods.

Other than cosmetic differences, I don't see it.

[Gulliver Foyle]

Originally Posted by Darat

It's also because they want to move the data out of the EU.

That's simply to make the data theft less prosecutable.

[jeremyp]

Latest Twitter news.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...yees-suit-says

Twitter employees are taking Twitter to court because Twitter forced them to use arbitration and now Twitter is refusing to pay for it (as it must under the terms of the arbitration).

[dirtywick]

Originally Posted by jeremyp

Am I the only person concerned that Meta now controls Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp and now possibly the new Twitter?

Somebody needs to step in and break this company up.

i agree

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

- There's no chronological feed of only people you follow. This is a huge misstep in my opinion and tons of people are whining about it. A chronological feed of only people you follow is the core of Twitter's popularity and even with all the bloat and algorithmic content that has been added to it over the years, it remains the heart of the social media site that attracts people. I don't want to see what the algorithm thinks I want to see, I want to see the people I chose to follow are posting.

Yeah, a lot of people are complaining about that, but I'm not. It's basically the same idea as the Facebook News Feed, which a lot of people also complained about but which people got used to and no longer complain about.

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

- People also whining about how it really, really wants you to link an instagram account. Wasn't an issue for me because I didn't have an instagram account, but for people who do it's a bit hard to set up a stand alone account. People are understandably reluctant to be so overtly tied up in the Zuck extended universe where Facebook, instagram, and Threads are all linked in such a heavy handed way (even if that's obviously going to be the case at the very least behind the scenes). Semi anonymity is a big feature of Twitter that people like

Well, one of the reasons that they were able to get it working so quickly is that it's basically identical to Instagram, but for text rather than for pictures. And it also allowed them as I said to have basically the entire Instagram user base by default, so there was no long ramp up to popularity.

Originally Posted by ZirconBlue

Other than cosmetic differences, I don't see it.

Twitter was set up for short, text-based observations and interactions, while also providing a platform for sharing links. Instagram is specifically a photo sharing platform, though with the rise of TikTok it now also supports short videos. WhatsApp is for instant messaging between individuals and groups. All these are different functions for different markets.

Facebook is the elephant in the room, in that it does a whole pile of things, including group interactions for subjects of special interest, one-to-many dissemination of content to fans of people and products, event management, a marketplace for goods and services and other functions as well, many of which mimic the functions that other specialist products also provide (like sharing photos). That's why to me, Facebook is the most useful of the social media platforms. It's flexible and able to be applied to a lot of different kinds of situations.

Of course, over time, the different specialist platforms have attempted to shoehorn in functions that other platforms provide, particularly short videos because TikTok. This has resulted in a certain amount of overlap. But each platform has its different specific market.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

The data privacy issues relate to more than GDPR, it also includes Zuckerberg's companies long standing direct theft of their customers' data and the allowing and encouragement of same by third parties. The EU are coming down very hard on Zuckerberg and will continue to do so for years to come.

Demonstrably, nobody cares.

[gnome]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Yeah, a lot of people are complaining about that, but I'm not. It's basically the same idea as the Facebook News Feed, which a lot of people also complained about but which people got used to and no longer complain about.

I certainly do. Every few months they hide the "most recent" feed somewhere new and I have to find it. As well, I have little control over how thorough the "most recent" feed is. It appears to pick and choose what friends' updates to show me according to my "level of engagement". Which is terrible because there are some groups I want to read often without responding. As well, if a friend has been away from Facebook for a while I want to know if they've returned, but I rarely do because there was no "engagement" so I have to open their page directly to find out.

For this reason I always give the interface the lowest rating possible whenever they send out surveys pretending to care. I find it incredibly frustrating, but I feel locked in because that is where most of the people I want to connect with frequent.

It's dilemma without an obvious resolution, that due to FB's existing command of large populations, they have no incentive to be responsive to the users. The mere presence of the other users trumps everything, like a mass mutual hostage situation. I think the only thing to break it will be if an alternative offers a "killer" app or feature that is almost universally desired.

[Puppycow]

Twitter threatens legal action over Threads app

I'm guessing it's just bluster but it also seems like a signal that Musk is concerned about this.

Musk is angry that some of the Twitter employees he fired have been subsequently hired by Meta, although Meta denies that any of them were involved in creating the Threads app.

Would that be illegal, even if true? It's not like Meta doesn't have its own knowledge about how to create a social media platform or that publicly known information isn't sufficient to make something very similar.

[arthwollipot]

Facebook's News Feed algortithm certainly rewards active curation. I've spent a great deal of time making sure that I'm in exactly the information bubble that I want.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Twitter threatens legal action over Threads app

I'm guessing it's just bluster but it also seems like a signal that Musk is concerned about this.

Musk is angry that some of the Twitter employees he fired have been subsequently hired by Meta, although Meta denies that any of them were involved in creating the Threads app.

Would that be illegal, even if true? It's not like Meta doesn't have its own knowledge about how to create a social media platform or that publicly known information isn't sufficient to make something very similar.

Likely bluster and/or a shot across the bows IMO.

Simply having similar functionality wouldn't be enough, Twitter would have to show theft of intellectual property.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Twitter threatens legal action over Threads app

I'm guessing it's just bluster but it also seems like a signal that Musk is concerned about this.

Musk is angry that some of the Twitter employees he fired have been subsequently hired by Meta, although Meta denies that any of them were involved in creating the Threads app.

Would that be illegal, even if true? It's not like Meta doesn't have its own knowledge about how to create a social media platform or that publicly known information isn't sufficient to make something very similar.

At this point who is to even say what is legal or illegal in these kinds of situations?

I imagine a lot of people like Musk and Zuckerberg just play the game of doing what they want and outspending their rivals in court.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by The Don

Likely bluster and/or a shot across the bows IMO.

Simply having similar functionality wouldn't be enough, Twitter would have to show theft of intellectual property.

I've seen a claim that Meta specifically hired developers that had been fired from Twitter, for the purposes of creating Threads. Don't know how much credence to give that report, though.

[Orphia Nay]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I've seen a claim that Meta specifically hired developers that had been fired from Twitter, for the purposes of creating Threads. Don't know how much credence to give that report, though.

I saw a claim that Meta specifically *didn't* hire anyone from Twitter to work on Threads.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

I saw a claim that Meta specifically *didn't* hire anyone from Twitter to work on Threads.

Two unverified reports saying opposite things? Impossible!

[Orphia Nay]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Two unverified reports saying opposite things? Impossible!

"“No one on the Threads engineering team is a former Twitter employee,” Andy Stone, Meta communications director, posted on Threads. “That’s just not a thing.”"

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/06/twit...reads-app.html

[arthwollipot]

That's fair.