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Old 9th January 2023, 07:12 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
So the question might be better asked: Who covered it up?
Or was there a cover up vs lack of interest?

Remember, it was supposedly a blue safe seat.
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Old 9th January 2023, 07:44 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Or was there a cover up vs lack of interest?

Remember, it was supposedly a blue safe seat.
If it was a Dem who did all the cheating, what would have been the media response there? Off-the-wall wailing and Tucker Carlson thrown in?
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Old 9th January 2023, 07:46 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
If it was a Dem who did all the cheating, what would have been the media response there? Off-the-wall wailing and Tucker Carlson thrown in?
Certainly not the response...or non-response... we've seen from most Republicans
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Old 9th January 2023, 09:11 PM   #164
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say something bad is going to come out about Santos and children (probably near water). Hell I got nothing to lose - that is my prediction.

I base this on my Skeptical Intuition (I'll be twenty years-old here in a few days, I've earned it!). Dude looks creepy and that's my only evidence other than his life of lying and thieving.

What else hasn't he been accused of already?
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Old 10th January 2023, 07:02 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
What else hasn't he been accused of already?
He hasn't claimed, nor been accused, that he's Kaiser Soze.
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Old 10th January 2023, 09:23 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
So the question might be better asked: Who covered it up?
The media did. They wanted a horse race so they didn't want to cover G Santos' lies because it would've made the horse race less close and less interesting.

It's the same way the media covered Trump vs Hillary. They knew that most of what the Republicans were saying about Hillary was lies and nonsense but they thought that covering those as lies and nonsense would've made a close race less close.

In both cases, the media thought the Democrat was safe so they wanted to report on the races in the best way that they could to help the Republican have a close race. In both cases, they thought that there was no way the Republican would win. They were wrong, and now America and democracy is weaker for it.
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Old 10th January 2023, 11:15 AM   #167
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not money well spent

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I wouldn't doubt Santos spends at least part of his only Congressional term in prison.
That would disappoint whoever paid for that seat.
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Old 10th January 2023, 11:30 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
That would disappoint whoever paid for that seat.
The people who paid for the seat are probably already upset about the fraudulent fundraising...
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Old 10th January 2023, 05:37 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
He hasn't claimed, nor been accused, that he's Kaiser Soze.


Love that movie. They should remake it without Spacey so I could enjoy watching it again.
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Old 10th January 2023, 05:44 PM   #170
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This will not end well for Santos.
If the margin of members was more confortable, then I think the GOP might throw him to the dogs but they won't do anything with such a narrow majority.
Sadly, the GOP leadership has no morality or ethics except power.
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Old 10th January 2023, 07:06 PM   #171
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Old 10th January 2023, 07:20 PM   #172
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Just saw this and don't think its been mentioned here. (It's from a local news feed, so no link -it requires a login.)
Quote:
A civil complaint filed Monday, Jan. 9, by the nonprofit Campaign Legal Center accuses Santos, a Republican representing the 3rd District on Long Island’s North Shore and parts of Queens, of illegally using campaign funds for personal expenses, according to the outlet. The complaint also accuses Santos of concealing the sources of his campaign donations, calling into question how he was able to make a $705,000 loan to his campaign despite financial disclosure reports showing that the 34-year-old only made $55,000 in 2020. "The concealed true source behind $705,000 in contributions to Santos's campaign could be a corporation or foreign national — both of which are categorically barred from contributing to federal candidates,” CBS News quoted the complaint as saying.
This guy's some piece of work. What are the chances he may just say, "I can't do this," and resign?
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Old 10th January 2023, 08:44 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Just saw this and don't think its been mentioned here. (It's from a local news feed, so no link -it requires a login.)

This guy's some piece of work. What are the chances he may just say, "I can't do this," and resign?
If there's an actual crime here committed in the US, I'd guess that campaign finance law would be a good place to look for it. Apparently simply lying is not itself a crime.
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Old 10th January 2023, 08:54 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
If there's an actual crime here committed in the US, I'd guess that campaign finance law would be a good place to look for it. Apparently simply lying is not itself a crime.
Yes, it will depend on the money trail.

I don't see him being pressured to resign, why would he give up his salary and perks?
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Old 10th January 2023, 09:13 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Just saw this and don't think its been mentioned here. (It's from a local news feed, so no link -it requires a login.)

This guy's some piece of work. What are the chances he may just say, "I can't do this," and resign?
He's making more money than he ever has in his life. He'll hold on as long as he can.
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Old 10th January 2023, 10:03 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Just saw this and don't think its been mentioned here. (It's from a local news feed, so no link -it requires a login.)

This guy's some piece of work. What are the chances he may just say, "I can't do this," and resign?
Not as remote as Trump saying those words, but pretty remote nonetheless.
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Old 10th January 2023, 11:42 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
He's making more money than he ever has in his life. He'll hold on as long as he can.
Wait, can we PAY him money to go away? It might be worth it.
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Old 11th January 2023, 12:30 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
The media did. They wanted a horse race so they didn't want to cover G Santos' lies because it would've made the horse race less close and less interesting.

It's the same way the media covered Trump vs Hillary. They knew that most of what the Republicans were saying about Hillary was lies and nonsense but they thought that covering those as lies and nonsense would've made a close race less close.

In both cases, the media thought the Democrat was safe so they wanted to report on the races in the best way that they could to help the Republican have a close race. In both cases, they thought that there was no way the Republican would win. They were wrong, and now America and democracy is weaker for it.
I'm not sure the media were too worried about republicans winning nor about the death of political legitimacy in the US. Remember, owners, editors and senior reoprters/columnists are very right wing themselves.
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Old 11th January 2023, 12:32 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
The media did. They wanted a horse race so they didn't want to cover G Santos' lies because it would've made the horse race less close and less interesting.

It's the same way the media covered Trump vs Hillary. They knew that most of what the Republicans were saying about Hillary was lies and nonsense but they thought that covering those as lies and nonsense would've made a close race less close.

In both cases, the media thought the Democrat was safe so they wanted to report on the races in the best way that they could to help the Republican have a close race. In both cases, they thought that there was no way the Republican would win. They were wrong, and now America and democracy is weaker for it.
Twaddle.

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Old 11th January 2023, 01:46 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Twaddle.

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Thoughtful and well reasoned. Not.
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Old 11th January 2023, 03:14 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
So the question might be better asked: Who covered it up?
Cover up or just incompetence through lack of resources? My guess is the latter. News organisations are mere shadows of their former selves.
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Old 11th January 2023, 09:43 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Thoughtful and well reasoned. Not.
I beg to differ. I reject the notion that "the media", as if that's a singular entity, worked in concert to suppress damning Santos news. There's a section on this forum for that sort of twaddle.

Moreover, the news about Santos' truly extraordinary level of BS that was supposedly suppressed would almost certainly have drawn more readers/viewers than the horse race.
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Old 11th January 2023, 09:55 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post

This guy's some piece of work. What are the chances he may just say, "I can't do this," and resign?
When you are halfway up the ramp about to jump over flaming wreckage it isn't wise to hit the brakes.

His only way out is forward, and, sadly, his being in the future willing to resign would be a plea bargaining chip.
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Old 11th January 2023, 09:55 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I beg to differ. I reject the notion that "the media", as if that's a singular entity, worked in concert to suppress damning Santos news. There's a section on this forum for that sort of twaddle.

Moreover, the news about Santos' truly extraordinary level of BS that was supposedly suppressed would almost certainly have drawn more readers/viewers than the horse race.
That's not necessarily true. As much as I hate the word, it's basically that Trump has normalized excessive lying, to the point where it is clear that too many people don't care.

You even see that with Santos - it gets dismissed as just, "All politicians lie." It's not news. He's got an R next to his name, so who cares what else is true?
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Old 11th January 2023, 10:03 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I beg to differ. I reject the notion that "the media", as if that's a singular entity, worked in concert to suppress damning Santos news. There's a section on this forum for that sort of twaddle.

Moreover, the news about Santos' truly extraordinary level of BS that was supposedly suppressed would almost certainly have drawn more readers/viewers than the horse race.
Eh, I doubt that "the media" works to suppress damning news (except of course for right wing media), but there certainly is a long and proven track record of mainstream media "both-siding" political reporting. thaiboxerken brought up the Trump/Hillary example where Trump's many scandals would not be reported on without a counterbalancing mention of Clinton's emails, for instance.
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Old 11th January 2023, 10:04 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
That's not necessarily true. As much as I hate the word, it's basically that Trump has normalized excessive lying, to the point where it is clear that too many people don't care.

You even see that with Santos - it gets dismissed as just, "All politicians lie." It's not news. He's got an R next to his name, so who cares what else is true?
I think you're wrong for at least two reasons:

1. The extent and nature of Santos' BS is special, and loaded with human interest.
2. The horse race for 1 measly seat out of 435 wouldn't have drawn national attention.
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Old 11th January 2023, 10:40 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Twaddle.

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I'm not convinced it's twaddle, except the part where it is assumed the media wanted a closer race but not a Republican victory. I can think of numerous examples of the press giving more weight to trivial faults of Democratic candidates than the serious faults of their opponents. Of course we see what we want when we're biased, but I think a case could be made there. But what I'm not convinced of is that the press wants it any other way. They may not go all out to promote bad government, and one can always point to the desire for fairness and impartiality in reporting as an excuse, but when the worse leaders win and the worse government ensues, it's better copy.
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Old 11th January 2023, 10:42 AM   #188
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Nassau County republicans call for his resignation.
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Old 11th January 2023, 10:55 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I think you're wrong for at least two reasons:

1. The extent and nature of Santos' BS is special, and loaded with human interest.
2. The horse race for 1 measly seat out of 435 wouldn't have drawn national attention.
While I don't necessarily argue with #2, I think you are wrong about #1. You would think it would be special and unique, but, as I said, dishonesty is so normalized that it gets dismissed. Do you not agree that there have been many who have tried to excuse it with the old "all politicians lie" dodge?
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Old 11th January 2023, 12:33 PM   #190
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Every day that goes by, another expose about fraud and campaign finance crimes. And every day the GOP remains silent.

Guess the GOP literally does not care about honesty, integrity, the truth.
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Old 11th January 2023, 01:39 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Every day that goes by, another expose about fraud and campaign finance crimes. And every day the GOP remains silent.

Guess the GOP literally does not care about honesty, integrity, the truth.
The GOP in Nassau county, Santos home district, just called for him to resign.
As much as I hate what much of the GOP has become, but I think "Everybody in the GOP Is evil" is pretty extreme.
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Old 11th January 2023, 01:44 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The GOP in Nassau county, Santos home district, just called for him to resign.
As much as I hate what much of the GOP has become, but I think "Everybody in the GOP Is evil" is pretty extreme.
I agree. It's the GOP leadership and extremists that are the problem.
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Old 11th January 2023, 02:01 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The GOP in Nassau county, Santos home district, just called for him to resign.
As much as I hate what much of the GOP has become, but I think "Everybody in the GOP Is evil" is pretty extreme.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I agree. It's the GOP leadership and extremists that are the problem.
...and the people who keep voting the extremist GOPers into power.
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Old 11th January 2023, 02:09 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The GOP in Nassau county, Santos home district, just called for him to resign.
As much as I hate what much of the GOP has become, but I think "Everybody in the GOP Is evil" is pretty extreme.
Let me know when the state and national party calls for him to step down.

As for right now, they prefer power over integrity.
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Old 11th January 2023, 02:11 PM   #195
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It is "twaddle" that the news media acts with some sort of CT motivation. Think about it, do they have secret meetings? Pass out talking points memos (a real thing at Faux News) so everyone is on the same page?

Santos' competitor said what the problem was and I linked to it above. His campaign could not get any national news interest because so much else during the run-up to the 2022 election drowned out stories like Santos' pathological lying (differs considerably from the usual political candidate and legislator lying). Losing local media is a serious problem the Santos election identifies.


How does the news media work? They sell a commodity and that commodity is not information. The business model is and has been for a very long time (always has been to varying degrees) is that sensation, scandal and controversy sells.

Good reporting, especially investigative reporting does sell sometimes but apparently not enough for news rooms to hire many investigative reporters. It takes too long to actually investigate some stories.

I also fault the Democrats who have yet to figure out basic marketing skills. They might have gotten more media interest in Santos had they approached it using the mentally disturbed aspect. I'd bet 10 to 1 they simply pointed out X or Y etc wasn't true. They might have looked more carefully into the guy's background and campaign finances. I'd also bet the DNC didn't give the district's candidate much financial help because they falsely assumed it was a safe seat.

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Old 11th January 2023, 03:45 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
While I don't necessarily argue with #2, I think you are wrong about #1. You would think it would be special and unique, but, as I said, dishonesty is so normalized that it gets dismissed. Do you not agree that there have been many who have tried to excuse it with the old "all politicians lie" dodge?
Yes, dishonesty has been normalized. And yes, I often hear people foist the "all politicians lie" excuse.

Notwithstanding, the unrelenting coverage Santos has received over the past few weeks pretty much proves my point.
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Old 11th January 2023, 09:48 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
the unrelenting coverage Santos has received over the past few weeks pretty much proves my point.
Expanding here...

* The horse race did not gain national attention.
* The scandal has been unrelenting for weeks.

This clearly proves out my point with a high level of certitude.
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Old 12th January 2023, 12:24 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Yes, dishonesty has been normalized. And yes, I often hear people foist the "all politicians lie" excuse.
It's also as if we've lost sight of the fact that all lies and other missteps are not equal. "I only had two beers" is a lie when I actually had four, and so is "I didn't spend the night snorting coke and banging underage hookers" when I actually did. I've been guilty of the former, but I still think that leaves me as a better person than someone who is guilty of the latter.
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Old 12th January 2023, 07:23 AM   #199
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I do think in general themedia want to make the electoral contest seem close to peak interest among their customer base. In the USA this is probably exacerbated by the 2 Party system where it seems about 40-45% of the population will always vote either Republican or Democrat. We have similar here in the UK for Labour and Conservatives, although we do have a 3rd party of varying electoral strengths in the Lib Dems and strong regional parties like the SNP or the Northern Irish parties. We even have a Green MP at Westminster and that is despite an electoral system that strongly favours a bi-polar political system, which means when it comes to national elections all the focus is on Lab/Con contest.
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Last edited by Parsman; 12th January 2023 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 12th January 2023, 09:29 AM   #200
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I'm wondering if he wears glasses just to keep from getting punched in the face.
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