Continuation General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

[webfusion]

Originally Posted by Nessie

I think it is the Jews who are creating an atmosphere of anger against Jews, because of the revenge they are presently inflicting on Palestinians. It is excessive.

You wanna know what excessive looks like?
How about this little gem from Mr.Nissim, an Israeli politician.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/380617

"What is left in Gaza? Tunnels, Hamas, the accursed terrorists who murdered little children, who are holding our children captive. I always said Hamas was born to murder children and Jews. We need to internalize this." and then he adds... "We need to crush Gaza - there's nothing else to do, Gaza is Hamas."

[Planigale]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

That report does not corroborate planigale's claim.
Unconfirmed reports of what might have happened, which might include sexual harrasment, not sexual assault- which was the claim- are not proof.
That Shin Bet are nasty bastards is not really in any doubt, and I am not condoning the use of torture or rape on prisoners. I just want to be able to distinguish between exaggerated propaganda and actual fact.
So, any other links? planigale seemed very certain of this, so there must be something out there to support it. As I say, I've looked, but can't find anything.

Quote:

The NGO Public Committee against Torture in Israel (PCATI) reported that “exceptional measures” used by Israeli security personnel against Palestinian security detainees in the West Bank included beatings, forcing an individual to hold a stress position for long periods, threats of rape and physical harm, painful pressure from shackles or restraints applied to the forearms, sleep deprivation, and threats against families of detainees. Women prisoners and detainees reported harassment and abuse in detention by ISF. According to PCATI, there were only three investigations despite more than 1,400 complaints made since 2001; all three cases were closed with no indictment. The average time it took the Office of the Inspector of Interrogee Complaints to conclude the preliminary examination of a complaint filed by PCATI was 44 months, while the longest was 97 months.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/featur...-israeli-jails

Quote:

“It’s not something that’s done by an individual soldier who decided to humiliate or mistreat [the prisoners],” she said. “It’s part of the process, part of the policy, in order to affect the entire society and put it under pressure... because they are aware that [gender] is a sensitive subject in Palestinian society.”

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/i...ed-rape-prison

Quote:

He was told that female prisoners were threatened with rape and they were subject to a "policy of starvation" in prison.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20...ine-prisoners/

Quote:

The report further accused Israel of “invasive strip searches, sexual abuse, and threats” against the 29 Palestinian female prisoners currently held in Israeli jails.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/to...tainees-683352

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

It is hard not to see a strategy by the Israeli leadership of deliberately endangering Jews, both at home and abroad, in the hopes that an attack will justify whatever Netanyahu wants to do.

And Netanyahu has been repeatedly and indefatigably telling the whole world precisely what that is for over 11 years... I give you one guess...

And here is a hint...

And here is another hint:

Originally Posted by webfusion

... They better be mindful about how they proceed, The intervention of Yemini Houthi military assets adds a very dangerous dimension to this conflict (even more problematic than Hezbollah).

[Stout]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy11200

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...al/ar-AA1jZnXA

A bunker or basement? Ok, we'll go with there's something underground there and that 55 meter tunnel leading to those "blast doors with a firing hole in them" most likely leads t....something. This is getting a little like the opening of Al Capone's vault.

While we wait, we can entertain ourselves with this relevant story from the Daily Mail

What else do I have open here?

Antonio Guterres, did this guy sleep through the Tigray War? Twitter link.

Oh, that's it, I thought there was more.

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by Planigale

https://www.middleeasteye.net/featur...-israeli-jails


https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/i...ed-rape-prison


https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20...ine-prisoners/


https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/to...tainees-683352

Thank you for this.
That is indeed appaling. Despite what certain apoplectic primates may think, I have a balanced view of this issue, and will readily condemn crimes and human rights abuses, no matter which side has committed them. Hamas' actions do not justify Israeli abuses, and vice versa.
I was not aware of this particular issue before, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention.

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

... I have a balanced view of this issue, and will readily condemn crimes and human rights abuses, no matter which side has committed them...

So now do you condemn the 75 years of Ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid and Genocide and torment and racism that the Zionist Jihadist terrorists have been wreaking on Palestinians since before there even was an Israel?

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

I was not aware of this particular issue before, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention.

But you were aware of the Ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid and numerous Genocides...

If not... why not? You could have read many of the FACTUAL and OBJECTIVE and UNBIASED numerous books and reports and articles and films that are not from some

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

certain apoplectic primates...

Who are on the Zionist Jihadists' side frothing at the mouth with Zionist propaganda and lies and refusing to ever admit their

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

... crimes and human rights abuses...

Which are copiously documented and reported and filmed by numerous "fair and balanced" humanitarians who are not...

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

certain apoplectic [zionist jihad supporting] primates...

And who do not call the people who bring information to them

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

...apoplectic primates...

While refusing to read and look at the FACTS.

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by Leumas

So now do you condemn the 75 years of Ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid and Genocide and torment and racism that the Zionist Jihadist terrorists have been wreaking on Palestinians since before there even was an Israel?





But you were aware of the Ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid and numerous Genocides...

If not... why not? You could have read many of the FACTUAL and OBJECTIVE and UNBIASED numerous books and reports and articles and films that are not from some




Who are on the Zionist Jihadists' side frothing at the mouth with Zionist propaganda and lies and refusing to ever admit their





Which are copiously documented and reported and filmed by numerous "fair and balanced" humanitarians who are not...





And who do not call the people who bring information to them





While refusing to read and look at the FACTS.

It is a truly fascinating style of posting, isn't it?

[Ziggurat]

Originally Posted by Nessie

I think it is the Jews who are creating an atmosphere of anger against Jews, because of the revenge they are presently inflicting on Palestinians. It is excessive.

I think it is the Palestinians who are creating an atmosphere of anger against the Palestinians, because of the revenge they inflicted on Oct. 7 on the Jews. It was excessive.

Hamas must be destroyed. There is no easy way to do that. There is no kind way to do that. There is no bloodless way to do that. It can only be done with fire and blood and death. It will be cruel and bitter, because no alternative is possible. Every call for a ceasefire, every claim that Israel's response is excessive, is a demand to let Hamas survive, and continue, and ultimately slaughter Jews again. War is hell, but it must be done.

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

I think it is the Palestinians who are creating an atmosphere of anger against the Palestinians, because of the revenge they inflicted on Oct. 7 on the Jews. It was excessive.

Hamas must be destroyed. There is no easy way to do that. There is no kind way to do that. There is no bloodless way to do that. It can only be done with fire and blood and death. It will be cruel and bitter, because no alternative is possible. Every call for a ceasefire, every claim that Israel's response is excessive, is a demand to let Hamas survive, and continue, and ultimately slaughter Jews again. War is hell, but it must be done.

And it might, in the long run, save lives. Get it over with. End the terrorism and then there is no need to hit the Hamas guys hiding out in a hospital every so often.

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

And it might, in the long run, save lives. Get it over with. End the terrorism and then there is no need to hit the Hamas guys hiding out in a hospital every so often.

The Nazis said the same about their Final Solution too...

[webfusion]

OK, we're getting ready for an exchange of hostages/prisoners.

Women and minors.

The deal is not really linked to a true ceasefire (although everyone is using that word).
It's more like a 'break' in IDF combat actions for a few days, so that Hamas can arrange the transfer.

Personally, I don't feel the break will be honored by Hamas.

And Israel will be left without the remains of Oren Shaul and Hadar Goldin.
Interestingly, the vast collection of international media has not mentioned their names, not once.

[Nessie]

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

I think it is the Palestinians who are creating an atmosphere of anger against the Palestinians, because of the revenge they inflicted on Oct. 7 on the Jews. It was excessive.

Hamas must be destroyed. There is no easy way to do that. There is no kind way to do that. There is no bloodless way to do that. It can only be done with fire and blood and death. It will be cruel and bitter, because no alternative is possible. Every call for a ceasefire, every claim that Israel's response is excessive, is a demand to let Hamas survive, and continue, and ultimately slaughter Jews again. War is hell, but it must be done.

Hamas have been destroyed, Gaza laid waste in the process. Victory!

Then what?

The winner gets a wasteland, a lot of resentment and an uncertain future. Victory?

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Leumas

The Nazis said the same about their Final Solution too...

Do you just go about your day trying to figure out ways to equate Jews fighting a war against terrorists and the Holocaust? Maybe get a job or go outside or something.

[webfusion]

Nessie, where did you get the idea that in a war, the lands which are controlled by enemy forces shouldn't be laid waste to?

Meanwhile, some details of the 96-hour break are emerging --- Those Palestinians who fled northern Gaza for the south during the last weeks of fighting would not be allowed to return in that northerly direction during the pause, given that the IDF is expected to resume its military campaign once the brief stand-down period is concluded.
The IDF, the Mossad, and the Shin Bet are in favor of the broad outline of the deal.

We don't know today what a victory will look like, yet.
Everyone and their brother has their views of what's next.

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

Do you just go about your day trying to figure out ways to equate Jews fighting a war against terrorists and the Holocaust?

Every psychopath Nazi thought they were totally justified to do their crimes because of their self-righteous supremacist Nationalism and anyone who dared struggle against their occupation forces was an inhuman animal and savage saboteur who needed to be "mowed down".


When self-righteous psychopathic Settler Colonialist Zionist Jihadist Nationalists do and think the same way... then they are the very equivalent of Nazis.

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

...fighting a war...

Committing genocide against people the Zionists Jihadists are occupying and confining in Concentration Camps is a crime against humanity and psychopathic insanity just like the NAZIs did.

Crimes against Humanity as a Sippenhaftung is what the NAZIs used to do and when European Settler Colonialists do it as Zionist Jihadists... it is still a crime against humanity.

European Zionist Jihadist Settler Colonialists doing crimes against humanity and calling it The Final Solution for the problem of having to repeatedly "Mow The Lawn" is as an equal crime as when the NAZIs did the same.

Self-righteous supremacist racist NATIONALIST ideology is NAZI whether the Nazis do it or the Zionist Jihadists.

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

.... Maybe get a job or go outside or something.

It would behoove you to follow your own advice... also stop calling GENOCIDE a "war".

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by webfusion

... in a war...

The GENOCIDE that the European Settler Colonialist Zionist Jihadists are wreaking upon the Palestinians is not a war... it a crime against humanity... and against decency and morality and is a self-righteous supremacist Nationalist racist Ethnic Cleanisng.

Not a war by even the minimum of sane or moral or decent or humanitarian standards.

You repeatedly and incessantly choosing the "Alternative Facts" of calling it a war... will never warp reality and morality and decency and reason to make it a war.

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by Nessie

Hamas have been destroyed, Gaza laid waste in the process. Victory!

Then what?

The winner gets a wasteland, a lot of resentment and an uncertain future. Victory?

It worked for the British and the French and Dutch on 4 continents... The Zionist Jihadists are Europeans after all and have learned from the best examples of how to be ruthless self-righteous supremacist Settler Colonialists after a good Ethnic Cleansing of the irksome autochthonous peoples of their colonies.

[Nessie]

Originally Posted by webfusion

Nessie, where did you get the idea that in a war, the lands which are controlled by enemy forces shouldn't be laid waste to?

Meanwhile, some details of the 96-hour break are emerging --- Those Palestinians who fled northern Gaza for the south during the last weeks of fighting would not be allowed to return in that northerly direction during the pause, given that the IDF is expected to resume its military campaign once the brief stand-down period is concluded.
The IDF, the Mossad, and the Shin Bet are in favor of the broad outline of the deal.

We don't know today what a victory will look like, yet.
Everyone and their brother has their views of what's next.

Hamas destroyed, Gaza a wasteland. Then what?

[Dr.Sid]

Originally Posted by Nessie

Hamas destroyed, Gaza a wasteland. Then what?

No more rockets every night ? Sounds nice.

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

No more rockets every night ? Sounds nice.

I am very sure that the NAZI occupation forces felt the same about the resistances against their occupation too.

[Hercules56]

Originally Posted by Leumas

I am very sure that the NAZI occupation forces felt the same about the resistances against their occupation too.

Jewish partisans didn't murder innocent German civilians.

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by Nessie

Hamas destroyed, Gaza a wasteland. Then what?

Zionist Jihadist Settler Colonialists (from USA and UK and Russia and Ukraine and India etc.) move BACK into Gaza as they were there before... but this time in ALL of Gaza instead of just parts of it... with the grass well mowed.


In the map of Gaza below the blue spots were Zionist Settler Colonialist colonies.

[Hercules56]

Originally Posted by Leumas

It worked for the British and the French and Dutch on 4 continents... The Zionist Jihadists are Europeans after all and have learned from the best examples of how to be ruthless self-righteous supremacist Settler Colonialists after a good Ethnic Cleansing of the irksome autochthonous peoples of their colonies.

Um, a majority of Israeli Jews have non-white non-European ancestry.

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Leumas

It worked for the British and the French and Dutch on 4 continents... The Zionist Jihadists are Europeans after all and have learned from the best examples of how to be ruthless self-righteous supremacist Settler Colonialists after a good Ethnic Cleansing of the irksome autochthonous peoples of their colonies.

Total white supremacist's those Israeli's

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54501546

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Jewish partisans didn't murder innocent German civilians.

You are arrantly mistaken? (and this one... and this one)

Quote:

Jewish resistance in German-occupied Europe

Jewish resistance under Nazi rule took various forms of organized underground activities conducted against German occupation regimes in Europe by Jews during World War II.... actions that were taken against all laws and actions acted by Germans.... both passive and armed resistance conducted by Jews themselves.

... Jews accounted for about 15–20% of the French Resistance.... launched attacks against occupying German forces, and targeted Nazi informants and Gestapo agents... participated in the general French uprising of August 1944, fighting in Paris, Lyon, and Toulouse.

Jewish resistance within Germany itself during the Nazi era took a variety of forms, from sabotage and disruptions... Its most notable action was the bombing of an anti-Soviet exhibit organized by Joseph Goebbels in Berlin's Lustgarten. The action resulted in mass arrests, executions, and reprisals against German Jews. Because of the reprisals it provoked, the bombing led to debate within opposition circles similar to those that took place elsewhere where the Jewish resistance was active—taking action and risking murderous reprisals vs. being non-confrontational with the hopes of maximizing survival.

In the Netherlands, the only pre-war group that immediately started resistance against the German occupation was the communist party... They made several bomb attacks on German troop trains and arson attacks on cinemas, which were forbidden for Jews....

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Leumas

You are arrantly mistaken? (and this one... and this one)

Lies, more lies, and things completely unrelated to "murders of innocent German civilians".

You did however, get me interested in this supposed bombing of an anti-Soviet Museum in 1942. I had never heard of it, however:

The resulting fires were extinguished quickly, there were no deaths and only eleven people had trouble breathing because of the smoke. Another setback was that the exposition opened the next day as usual.

https://www.tracesofwar.com/articles...aum-Gruppe.htm

ETA: oh and reading through it, they actually did less damage than they could've out of fear they'd kill innocents polar opposite of Hamas whose goal is to kill as many innocents as they can. On account of them being terrorists, not resistance fighters.

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Um, a majority of Israeli Jews have non-white non-European ancestry.

Again FACTS prove you arrantly mistaken.

Quote:

According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, as of January 1, 2020, of Israel's 9.136 million people, 74.1% were Jews of any background. Among them, 68% were Sabras (Israeli-born), mostly second- or third-generation Israelis, and the rest are olim (Jewish immigrants to Israel)—22% from Europe and the Americas, and 10% from Asia and Africa, including the Arab countries. Nearly half of all Israeli Jews are descended from Jews who made aliyah from Europe, while around the same number are descended from Jews who made aliyah from Arab countries, Iran, Turkey, and Central Asia. Over two hundred thousand are, or are descended from, Ethiopian and Indian Jews.

[webfusion]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

No more rockets every night ? Sounds nice.

I think Israel is seeking somewhat more than just that limited result, this time around.
We've been down that path of "industrial quiet" after previous efforts to stop Hamas (2021 being the last one). Israel arranged a ceasefire each time that Hamas was on the ropes, due to 'mounting international pressures' and the result is what we experienced on 10-7.

Look at the Latuff cartoon that Leumas provided above in post # -- it was created in 2007.
Think about that for a second. In over a decade+1/2 the Israelis are back at square 1 with regards to our neighbors to the south.

Nessie, I've offered everyone here in several of my posts a perfectly reasonable and dynamic resolution to the intractable conflict -- namely, a NewState in part of Historical Palestine. This mini-Nation-State in statu nascendi provides an answer to all the Palestinian demands.
1. Their own lands, to grow and flourish alongside Israel, yet not have ANY Jews living within their borders. (Judenrein)
2. Access to sea and rail and air. (See: El-Arish)
3. Wide and generous Arab support, including by Saudi Arabia.
4. Giving refugees wordwide a place to call home, without threatening the demographics of the Jewish State. (we will consider famility reunifications to come live in Israel on a case-by-case basis).
5. No need to spend any of their State budget on military. (see: Guns or Butter)
6. Admittance to the UN as a member Nation. (they're now just an Observer Nation)
7. Agreement on the disposition of Haram al-Sharif, with the Kingdom of Jordan taking the mantle of "protector of Islamic Holy Grounds" and placing the Royal Jordanian Guards there, for show.
(Israel will naturally maintain overall security control of the entire city of Jerusalem, including this 37-acre public park area). NewState residents will be granted over-passage rights by Israel, into Hebron and from there, a short taxi or bus ride over to al-Quds.
8. Renewed access to funding, tech, and trade (with Hamas in charge, and designated as a terrorist group, the current restrictions on all the above are very draconian and prevent development of Gaza).
9. UNRWA will cease to exist, as it's no longer needed.
10. Palestinians will know peace.

[Hercules56]

Originally Posted by Leumas

Again FACTS prove you arrantly mistaken.

Almost 900,000 immigrants from North Africa and the Middle East moved to Israel and today 60% of Israeli Jews have ancestors from those areas.

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Leumas

Again FACTS prove you arrantly mistaken.

Quote:

According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, as of January 1, 2020, of Israel's 9.136 million people, 74.1% were Jews of any background. Among them, 68% were Sabras (Israeli-born), mostly second- or third-generation Israelis, and the rest are olim (Jewish immigrants to Israel)—22% from Europe and the Americas, and 10% from Asia and Africa, including the Arab countries. Nearly half of all Israeli Jews are descended from Jews who made aliyah from Europe, while around the same number are descended from Jews who made aliyah from Arab countries, Iran, Turkey, and Central Asia. Over two hundred thousand are, or are descended from, Ethiopian and Indian Jews.

Last time I checked "nearly half" is not a majority. Also, a majority of European Jews are descended from people not from Europe.

[JoeMorgue]

Since I never got any feedback on this I'm just gonna repeat, because I think it does speak to something that does matter in how we're discussing this.

Unless you're squatting in the Olduvai Gorge with a 23&Me print out the traces your lineage directly back to Lucy what person living anywhere has the kind of "right" to a piece of land being hairsplit here?

I'm going to hazard a guess that the number of people alive today actually living in some place with a direct lineage to some far ancient ancestor in any open and honest sense of the term is not that many. As I've asked many times and gotten no answer what country WOULD be "valid" country under this line of discourse.

The country of Iraq is exactly as old as the Polaroid Camera, the Parking Meter, and the Radio Telescope, and nobody is questioning Iraq's right to exist over it.

Humanity has been breaking for the horizon to see what's over the next hill literally since before we were human and we've migrated/been displaced constantly since then. Using "Okay but did a goat herder with your DNA live on this exact spot a bajillion years ago?" as some moral/legal/international diplomacy standard now seem weird at best.

And again are we talking Israel and Palestine as modern city-states or as ancient tribal homelands? These are not the same thing.

Yet again so nobody (at)s me yes it's absurd in 2023 that a country with the stated reason for existence is to serve as a homeland for a specific religious group exists and Israel's continuing existence (in the sense of how it's organized as a nation-state politically and diplomatically not in the "wipe it off the face of the Earth" sense) DOES need to be predicated on it dropping that part of its identity but like all criticisms of Israel that applies to a lot of Muslims countries even more.

If Saudi Arabia gets to have Mecca, a place that literally bans non-Muslims from existing inside it, Israel can be a "Jewish Country" where only 3/4s of the population is actually Jewish. Israel is only about 10% more Jewish then American is Christian.

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

Total white supremacist's those Israeli's

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54501546

Yes... the British Settler Colonialists in Africa brought Indians from India to labor for them in their Settler Colonialist projects.

Quote:

...Britain faced a huge labour shortage in its colonies. The British were therefore keen to recruit labour, especially since the government was then overseeing various infrastructure and labour-intensive projects. Thus, in the 1860s indentured contracts were utilised to transport cheap labour across the British Empire. Simultaneously, British colonial rule in India had pushed more and more Indians into poverty, as the British exploited the continent’s resources, forcing many individuals to look for alternative livelihoods and income streams so as to support themselves and their families. This made migration a more palatable option. The situation was compounded by a series of droughts that hit the north-western regions of India in the late nineteenth century, exacerbating poverty and causing many people to flee the affected areas. Between 1829 and 1924, a total of 769,427 Indians migrated to Mauritius, South Africa, the Seychelles, and East Africa....

[webfusion]

Originally Posted by Leumas

Again FACTS prove you arrantly mistaken.

It's not as clear-cut as you make it seem. Your invective here needs to be toned-down if you prefer to be taken seriously. Offering a continuous stream of Anti-Jew rhetoric and trying to force-feed us your Israel=Nazis propaganda isn't helping your 'case' either.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...ics-for-israel

There is a lot of statistical info presented by that article, but nothing about the Askenaz/Sephardi background. I could look into that elsewhere, but it's not really a point worth pursuing.

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Leumas

Yes... the British Settler Colonialists in Africa brought Indians from India to labor for them in their Settler Colonialist projects.

And? What the actual **** is your point bringing up British colonialism? How is that relevant to the current subject?

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

Last time I checked "nearly half" is not a majority. Also, a majority of European Jews are descended from people not from Europe.

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Almost 900,000 immigrants from North Africa and the Middle East moved to Israel and today 60% of Israeli Jews have ancestors from those areas.

Thanks for proving that Israel is a Settler Colonialist OCCUPATION of Palestine...

Imagine if Muslims did the same... and brought Indian Muslims and Chinese Muslims and Persian Muslims and Russian Muslims to displace and ethnically cleanse say Ukraine while confining the Ukrainians to Concentration Camps.

You have just proven the Zionist Jihadists as nothing but Settler Colonialist OCCUPIERS of Palestine... well done.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

And? What the actual **** is your point bringing up British colonialism? How is that relevant to the current subject?

Because colonialism is the core of the "Underdog, ergo the good guy" narrative for the Palestinians.

He's just slamming the "White Guilt" button over and over.

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

And? What the actual **** is your point bringing up British colonialism? How is that relevant to the current subject?

British Settler Colonialists bringing Indian people to help in their settler colonialist projects in Africa... is the same as European Zionists Settler Colonialists bringing Africans to help them in their Settler Colonialist Project in Palestine...


That is what the " actual **** " is the point in response to you citing African migrants brought into Israel as your attempt to obfuscate from Israel being a European Zionist Settler Colonialist project.

[JoeMorgue]

I'm so sick of "colonist."

Nobody on the goddamn planet lives where their ancestors used to live.

[Leumas]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Because colonialism is the core of the "Underdog, ergo the good guy" narrative for the Palestinians.

He's just slamming the "White Guilt" button over and over.

No... I am slamming FACTS and REALITY and HISTORY...

If Facts and Reality and History cause "white guilt" then... ah well... then they are indeed guilty and should feel ashamed and perhaps STOP doing more crimes... and then justify dismissing the pointing out of the FACTS and REALITY and HISTORY of their NEW CRIMES as just smashing "white guilt" buttons.

This is like a a thief objecting to being called a thief because his thievery was done long ago... while he is in the process of robbing a bank.

[webfusion]

I never realized that there was anyone who didn't realize Israel is a nation with a large immigrant population from elsewhere on earth. I always figured that was a well-known paradigm regarding the composition of Israel's residents.