[Continuation] General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4 - Page 5

The Great Zaganza · 8th November 2023, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/11...hamas-war-gaza

According to the most recent information there are still rockets being launched toward Israel. I don't know how much armed resistance the soldiers on the ground are encountering. If they want a "pause" they could start by stopping firing rockets but I don't think it makes military sense to pause the offensive and allow defenders to regroup.

The IDF never made the cessation of missile attacks a reason to stop the occupation and elimination of Hamas, or even just of negotiation.
It is therefore extremely rational for Hamas to use whatever they have left while they can.

Cosmic Yak · 8th November 2023, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

And I quote, from the 1968 Charter of the Palestine Liberation Organization:

Just because the PLO says everyone living in Palestine before 1947 was an Arab, doesn't automatically make it true.
It is in the interests of the PLO, and the opponents of Israel in general, to create the fiction of a distinct and separate Arab nation, that was displaced by the creation of the state of Israel.
Records from the Ottoman Empire, and from the British Mandate, give the lie to this claim.
tl/dr: What Leumas said, minus the foaming at the mouth invective.

webfusion · 8th November 2023, 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

Just so that I am clear... what would all those Zionist terrorists in Israel do if the Palestinians all declared their conversion to Judaism?

You're unclear and foggy, actually.
Judaism has a detailed and complex methodology for conversion.
You don't just 'declare' it, but rather, require a panel of religious Judges (Bet Din) to approve your intent and verify your Torah/halacha adoption. In Israel, it's a rigorous and long process, sometimes lasting more than a year, attending many classes and consultations with Rabbis, becoming an active participant in a Minyan, and of course, immersion into a ritual bath (mikva).

Nice try to invent a theoretical that isn't a real option.

Quote:

Would they accept that and give them Aliyah rights just like say they gave the Africans or Indians?

Both groups were well-established practitioners of Judaism, with Rabbis; Minyan formation; Torah reading; circumcision; traditional observance; marriage rituals; etc.

You can't just snap your fingers and become a Jew like magic.

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

...
tl/dr: What Leumas said, minus the foaming at the mouth invective.

So it is "foaming at the mouth invective" to point out the fact that the PLO are moronic terrorists?

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

It is in the interests of the PLO, and the opponents of Israel in general, to create the fiction of a distinct and separate Arab nation, that was displaced by the creation of the state of Israel.

The above statement is an arrant absurdity... it is in the interest of Zionism to create the lie that Palestinians are "arabs" as I have already explained...

Originally Posted by Leumas

By using that false epithet.
...
And then the Xenophobic supremacist Settler Colonialists use fallacies and propaganda such as "Land Without a people for a people without a land" and "Squatters" and then turn around and say "they are arabs and there are many arab states why don't they just go there to where they came from and leave us poor oppressed homeless Settler Colonialists with that little piece of land that does not belong to them... but was promised by the god 65% of us do not believe in to a guy 100% of sane people know was a myth".

and has already been demonstrated

Originally Posted by webfusion

The 'Arab World' consists of 22 countries in the Middle East and North Africa: Algeria, Bahrain, the Comoros Islands, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Mauritania, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.

Israel is less than 22,000 sq.miles of land area.
It is home to a robust mixture of people.
Including Ba'hai. Name another place on earth that the Ba'hai are comfortable in. (Iran?)

Also... Arab nationalism and its terrorists were fomented and armed and trained by the British and the French in order to have a fifth column fighting the Ottoman Empire before and during WWI... nothing to do with Israel.

The only correct statements in your post are these

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

Just because the PLO says everyone living in Palestine before 1947 was an Arab, doesn't automatically make it true.

It is in the interests of the PLO,

Because then they can go to the obscenely rich arabs and ask them for money which they can deposit in their accounts and get venally rich off of it... and part of it use to carry on with their heinous terrorism.

ETA: to demonstrate how incorrect your statements above are... and that it is rather in the interest of Zionism to disseminate the lie that the Palestinians are "arabs"... answer this question

Originally Posted by Leumas

Just so that I am clear... what would all those Zionist terrorists in Israel do if the Palestinians all declared their conversion to Judaism?

Would they accept that and give them Aliyah rights just like say they gave the Africans or Indians?

You know the answer is a resounding and irrefragable NO... and that "no" is facilitated in favor of Zionism by perpetuating the lie that they are arabs.

Cosmic Yak · 8th November 2023, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

So it is "foaming at the mouth invective" to point out the fact that the PLO are moronic terrorists?

Yes. The tone of the entirety of your posts is one of spittle-flecked apoplexy. You can make your claims in calmer language, you know. There's really no need for this.

Originally Posted by Leumas

The above statement is an arrant absurdity... it is in the interest of Zionism to create the lie that Palestinians are "arabs" as I have already explained...

You are both right and wrong, but as all you will do is endlessly repost your lengthy, overheated and largely irrelevant diatribes in response, I really do not see any point in trying to debate this with you. Life's too short.

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

You're unclear and foggy, actually.

No I am not because I already knew this very well... I just wanted to see what would Zionists reply...

Originally Posted by webfusion

Judaism has a detailed and complex methodology for conversion.
You don't just 'declare' it, but rather, require a panel of religious Judges (Bet Din) to approve your intent and verify your Torah/halacha adoption. In Israel, it's a rigorous and long process, sometimes lasting more than a year, attending many classes and consultations with Rabbis, becoming an active participant in a Minyan, and of course, immersion into a ritual bath (mikva).

Nice try to invent a theoretical that isn't a real option.

THANKS!!! You have answered honestly... and thus it goes to prove the RACISM And XENOPHOBIA of Judaism.

Originally Posted by webfusion

You can't just snap your fingers and become a Jew like magic.

Why not? What is so special about it?

Why can't it be like Christianity where ANYONE ON EARTH can become a christian with a bit of water... or Islam where ANYONE ON EARTH can become one with reciting some claptrap.

Why is Judaism such a RACIST XENOPHOBIC religion? Who decided to make it that way?

It was not that way during the 140s BCE when the Hasmoneans went around FORCING judaism on anyone that came under their power in their newly minted kingdom... so why not now?

Originally Posted by webfusion

Both groups were well-established practitioners of Judaism, with Rabbis; Minyan formation; Torah reading; circumcision; traditional observance; marriage rituals; etc.

So a European or Indian or African or Chinese who reads the Torah and is circumcised has more rights to the land of Palestine than the autochthonous peoples who were born and bread there generation after another for MILLENNIA... because they are Christian or Muslim rather than Jewish?

There were followers of the religion of Judaism and Christianity in Palestine millennia before and after the "arabs" conquered it. So how do the European Rabbis know which of those Jewish and Christian PALESTINIANS did not convert to Islam by hook or by crook and become now Muslim Palestinians... or convert to Christianity also by the sword and became Christian Palestinians?

Just like Palestinians before them were converted by the sword of the Hasmoneans to become Jewish Palestinians... no?

Do you call the Mizrachim Arab Jews? And even if YOU do... are they arabs?

So... thanks for yet again proving that the lie that Palestinians are arabs only goes to serve the Zionists' deliberate exclusion of them.

ETA: Do you think that a Christians should be able to do Aliyah to Palestine and displace people from their homes and farms because this is the land of Jesus?

Why not... why can an Indian or African or German or Russian or Polish or French or American Jew do that?

ETAA: Do you think an Italian American should be able to go to Italy today and displace some Muslim Italian from his house in say Milan and claim it for himself because he has Italian ancestry?

If not... than why can an Indian or Russian or Ethiopians or or or do that because s/he worships the sky daddy of some mythical guy from Sumer 4200 years ago?

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

Yes. The tone of the entirety of your posts is one of spittle-flecked apoplexy. You can make your claims in calmer language, you know. There's really no need for this.

You are both right and wrong, but as all you will do is endlessly repost your lengthy, overheated and largely irrelevant diatribes in response, I really do not see any point in trying to debate this with you. Life's too short.

So my "diatribe" against the PLO terrorists offends you... but your

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

...spittle-flecked apoplexy... and ... overheated and largely irrelevant diatribes...

against a member of this forum is fine and dandy?

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

You are both right and wrong

You are right that I am right... because REALITY and history and facts prove me so... and I have shown those facts and cited them.

But you are arrantly wrong that I am wrong because you have not an iota of anything to show that I am... nothing at all... just...

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

...spittle-flecked apoplexy... and ... overheated and largely irrelevant diatribes...

Directed at a member of the forum because I deride the moronic terrorists of the PLO.

webfusion · 8th November 2023, 05:18 AM

It appears that Leumas is engaged in a practice known as 'navel gazing' (omphaloskepsis)

I wish him well in that endeavor.

In the news, Hamas now says its fighters are advancing on Israeli troops and inflicting heavy damage to IDF. ("we're winning" is their mantra?)

I noticed a story coming out of Gaza City, as Israeli soldiers were able to form a Minyan (prayer group quorum) in an ancient Jewish synagogue there which had been captured in the successful advance of their lines.

Interesting social experiment
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/379602
"Do you support these things...?"
(a fake petition to agree with allowing Hamas to take over all of Palestine/Israel)

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

It appears that Leumas is engaged in a practice known as 'navel gazing' (omphaloskepsis)

Haha... nope... I am systematically demonstrating the arrantly abject moral and historical and legal and ethical and humanitarian BANKRUPTCY of Zionism and Judaism.

Thanks for helping me do that.

Hercules56 · 8th November 2023, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

And that quote is meaningless codswallop written by idiots and terrorists.

You would prefer to take the poppycock written by raving hideous terrorists instead of REALITY and HISTORY and GEOGRAPHY and ... did I say REALITY already??

You are denying anthropology and sociology and linguistics and archaeology and history and economics and REALITY altogether and prefer to believe the perfidious lies of terroristic morons.

I am going to take the bait.

The Palestinians speak the Arabic language, eat Arabic foods, celebrate and participate in Arabic culture. If they are in fact not Arab....what are they????

I expect an intelligent response.

webfusion · 8th November 2023, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

Haha... nope... I am systematically demonstrating the arrantly abject moral and historical and legal and ethical and humanitarian BANKRUPTCY of Zionism and Judaism.

Thanks for helping me do that.

Yer welcome, so glad it's helping ya.

(your posts are sounding more and more like the HAMAS indicating "We're Winning")

And this from Ron Dermer --
"...hopefully the Palestinians eventually will be able to choose a leadership that is committed to peaceful coexistence with Israel and not one that is determined to destroy Israel and that also teaches their children to live at peace with Israel and doesn't demonize Jews and demonize Israel." - SkyNews interview yesterday

Hercules56 · 8th November 2023, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

Haha... nope... I am systematically demonstrating the arrantly abject moral and historical and legal and ethical and humanitarian BANKRUPTCY of Zionism and Judaism.

Thanks for helping me do that.

Hamas clearly believes in targeting and killing Israeli civilians as part of their attempt to "liberate" Palestine. Does that mean Islam and Palestinian nationalism is ethically and morally bankrupt?

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Hamas clearly believes in targeting and killing Israeli civilians as part of their attempt to "liberate" Palestine. Does that mean Islam and Palestinian nationalism is ethically and morally bankrupt?

Yes... definitely.

Nationalism of all sorts is the product of 19th and 20th century INSANITY and was the cause of mayhem and destruction and atrocities around the world... one of which is Zionism.

The religions of the worship of an imaginary friend of a mythical peripatetic Sumerian pimp are the most HIDEOUS pyramid scheme ever wreaked upon humanity.

Hamas and the PLO are terrorists and so are the Zionists of the various groups.

webfusion · 8th November 2023, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

I am going to take the bait.

The Palestinians speak the Arabic language, eat Arabic foods, celebrate and participate in Arabic culture. If they are in fact not Arab....what are they????

I expect an intelligent response.

Previously, I suggested "Goobers" but they might run into copyright violation with that (See: Nestle)

I've seen some discussions that make the case they are "Canaanites"

I like this project --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lqEOR9UuBg
Asking people on the streets what they think.

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Yer welcome, so glad it's helping ya.

Originally Posted by webfusion

(your posts are sounding more and more like the HAMAS indicating "We're Winning")

And your above false statement sounds like theists claiming atheism is a religion.

Originally Posted by webfusion

And this from Ron Dermer --
"...hopefully the Palestinians eventually will be able to choose a leadership that is committed to peaceful coexistence with Israel and not one that is determined to destroy Israel and that also teaches their children to live at peace with Israel and doesn't demonize Jews and demonize Israel." - SkyNews interview yesterday

Yes... and the reciprocal would be desirable too... but that would be utter waste of time... because the Zionist terrorists in Israel are not ever going to allow that.... because it would be an existential threat to the racist xenophobic supremacist settler colonialist ethos and ideology of Zionism.

webfusion · 8th November 2023, 07:15 AM

Just an aside regarding "The Brutal Occupation" -- if you watched the video of the street interviews, it was created in Nablus (Shechem in Hebrew) and just look at the background and it becomes instantly obvious how oppressed, how brutalized, how difficult are the lives of Palestinians in the Westbank. /s

Hercules56 · 8th November 2023, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Previously, I suggested "Goobers" but they might run into copyright violation with that (See: Nestle)

I've seen some discussions that make the case they are "Canaanites"

I like this project --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lqEOR9UuBg
Asking people on the streets what they think.

LOL!!!

The Canaanites ceased to exist long before the Roman takeover of Judea.

If anyone is the descendants of the Canaanites, its the Jews.

The Palestinian Arabs? They are most likely a mixture of some of the locals who were around during the Islamic conquests, and all of the different Muslim peoples who migrated to their region over the last 1,000 years. Arabs, Persians, Egyptians, Berbers, Turks, Circassians, Tatars, Bosnians, etc etc.

But like many other people's of North Africa and the Middle East they adopted Arabic culture consider themselves to be Arabs and are part of the greater Arab nation.

You as a white man have no business telling them what they are and who they are. If they want to be known as Arabs and have evidence to support this then they are Arabs. Regardless of what your white privilege tells you.

theprestige · 8th November 2023, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

The IDF never made the cessation of missile attacks a reason to stop the occupation and elimination of Hamas, or even just of negotiation.
It is therefore extremely rational for Hamas to use whatever they have left while they can.

In what way is it rational for Hamas to keep using rockets while they can? These rockets do not strike at Israeli military forces. They cannot prevent Israeli military action. They do not deter Israeli military action. The only thing the Hamas rockets are good for is the senseless murder of civilians.

Senseless acts of violence are generally considered the polar opposite of "extremely rational". You're saying the goal of Hamas is not to achieve victory, is not to achieve peace. It's just to murder people in a fit of rage until they are exterminated. And you're saying you find Hamas's murderous rage and its symptoms to be extremely rational. Which it is, if you happen to believe that murdering Jews is a good thing.

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

The Palestinians speak the Arabic language....

Indians had English as their official language and so did many countries in Africa... are they English?

Mexicans speak Spanish... are they Spanish?

Egyptians speak arabic too... are they arabs?

Do you even know anything about languages or linguistics? Or anthropology?

Originally Posted by Hercules56

eat Arabic foods,

No they do not... Palestinian cuisine is more akin to Greek and Turkish and Italians cuisines....

Arabia and its Bedouins never heard of any of the herbs and cereals and cooking methods of the ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS of Palestine and Syria and Turkey and Greece until they were introduced to them when they raped and pillaged those places.

Originally Posted by Hercules56

celebrate and participate in Arabic culture.

No they do not... other than perhaps the Muslim turpitude for the Muslim Palestinians.... which was imposed on them along with Islam.

Christian Palestinians and Jewish Palestinians have not an iota of anything to do with anything to do with Arabic "culture".

Originally Posted by Hercules56

If they are in fact not Arab....

Yes... they are in fact not arabs.

Originally Posted by Hercules56

....what are they????

Well... the answer is very simple... wait for it...

Originally Posted by Hercules56

I expect an intelligent response.

I already gave you many before... and now some more... are you able to understand them?

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Just an aside regarding "The Brutal Occupation" -- if you watched the video ...

Of Obama admitting the fact of it...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Hercules56 · 8th November 2023, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

Indians had English as their official language and so did many countries in Africa... are they English?

Mexicans speak Spanish... are they Spanish?

Egyptians speak arabic too... are they arabs?

Do you even know anything about languages or linguistics? Or anthropology?

No they do not... Palestinian cuisine is more akin to Greek and Turkish and Italians cuisines....

Arabia and its Bedouins never heard of any of the herbs and cereals and cooking methods of the ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS of Palestine and Syria and Turkey and Greece until they were introduced to them when they raped and pillaged those places.

No they do not... other than perhaps the Muslim turpitude for the Muslim Palestinians.... which was imposed on them along with Islam.

Christian Palestinians and Jewish Palestinians have not an iota of anything to do with anything to do with Arabic "culture".

Yes... they are in fact not arabs.

Well... the answer is very simple... wait for it...

I already gave you many before... and now some more... are you able to understand them?

The modern day Egyptian people are in fact a mixture of Arabs and others.

Many Mexicans do have Spanish ancestry and all of them are considered Hispanic.

You seem to have an odd agenda that none of us can understand. But historical accuracy is clearly not it.

Your white privilege makes you think that you have the right to tell Arabs that they are in fact not Arabs. Its sad.

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

LOL!!!

The Canaanites ceased to exist long before the Roman takeover of Judea.

If anyone is the descendants of the Canaanites, its the Jews.

The Palestinian Arabs? They are most likely a mixture of some of the locals who were around during the Islamic conquests, and all of the different Muslim peoples who migrated to their region over the last 1,000 years. Arabs, Persians, Egyptians, Berbers, Turks, Circassians, Tatars, Bosnians, etc etc.

But like many other people's of North Africa and the Middle East they adopted Arabic culture consider themselves to be Arabs and are part of the greater Arab nation.

You as a white man have no business telling them what they are and who they are. If they want to be known as Arabs and have evidence to support this then they are Arabs. Regardless of what your white privilege tells you.

Every sentence in the above is an error stemming out of lack of understanding of history, anthropology, archaeology, sociology, linguistics, and altogether the REALITY of how humanity works.

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

The modern day Egyptian people are in fact a mixture of Arabs and others.

So not arabs... and many are not a mixture... so not arabs... and arabs themselves are a mixture... so not arabs...

And all humanity is a mixture...

If only you knew anything about anthropology and sociology and linguistics and history you would know.

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Many Mexicans do have Spanish ancestry and all of them are considered Hispanic.

Are the ones who were the victims and the slaves of the Spanish ancestry who were Aztecs and Mayas also Spanish then?

And do you know what the Spanish are themselves? They are Iberians and Romans and Visigoths and Moors and Arabs and Vikings.... so are they Arabs too? Or Germans perhaps?

So does that make the Mexicans Arabs too or Germans or Vikings?

Originally Posted by Hercules56

You seem to have an odd agenda

Nope... the agenda is yours and the Zionists'

Originally Posted by Hercules56

that none of us can understand. But historical accuracy is clearly not it.

If you could understand it you would know how historically accurate it is ... not to mention also all the other fields that you do not know as well.

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Your white privilege makes you think that you have the right to tell Arabs that they are in fact not Arabs. Its sad.

You keep repeating this "white privilege" chant... what is the agenda there??

I explained to you before that it is called EDUCATION that has nothing to do with any color... but yes... it is a privilege indeed to be EDUCATED and thus can read and comprehend history and anthropology and sociology and linguistics and archaeology and REAL stuff instead of myths and propaganda.

And it is incumbent on educated people of all colors to share that education with people of all colors.

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

LOL!!!

The Canaanites ceased to exist long before the Roman takeover of Judea.

See I told you that you do not know history....

Furthermore... you are not willing to read anything that can prove your errors about history....

I already gave you this... which completely debunks your above statement

Originally Posted by Leumas

...How about the fact that one of the disciples of Jesus was a Canaanite as stated in the book of Acts and in Luke?
...

And here is another one that also rives your above historically wrong assertion....

Originally Posted by Hercules56

If anyone is the descendants of the Canaanites, its the Jews.

Judaism is a RELIGION not a race... and thus Canaanites could have converted as indeed they clearly did by being Palestinian Jews and Christians.

You seem to be under the impression that being Jewish is a race... do you think being Christian is a race?

All these are Jews... which one do you think was the Canaanite?

Hercules56 · 8th November 2023, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

See I told you that you do not know history....

Furthermore... you are not willing to read anything that can prove your errors about history....

I already gave you this... which completely debunks your above statement

And here is another one that also rives your above historically wrong assertion....

Judaism is a RELIGION not a race... and thus Canaanites could have converted as indeed they clearly did by being Palestinian Jews and Christians.

You seem to be under the impression that being Jewish is a race... do you think being Christian is a race?

All these are Jews... which one do you think was the Canaanite?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7f70112e27.jpg

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7ecdedae7e.jpg

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7eaff11cfe.jpg

The Canaanites ceased to exist more than 2,000 years ago.

There is no mention of them existing as a people or a culture anywhere, during the hasmonian or even jesus's time.

They simply no longer exist and were absorbed into the larger Israelite population, long before the Roman destruction of Judea.

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

The Canaanites ceased to exist more than 2,000 years ago.

There is no mention of them existing as a people or a culture anywhere, during the hasmonian or even jesus's time.

They simply no longer exist and were absorbed into the larger Israelite population, long before the Roman destruction of Judea.

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine

Repeating a falsity over and over despite being presented with the irrefragable evidence proving the error... is not going to ever make the evidence riving the error go away... nor will it ever make the error a truth... oh... wait... wait... isn't that what the Zionists have been doing all along... ah... never mind then... carry on!!

Hercules56 · 8th November 2023, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

Repeating a falsity over and over despite being presented with the irrefragable evidence proving the error... is not going to ever make the evidence riving the error go away... nor will it ever make the error a truth... oh... wait... wait... isn't that what the Zionists have been doing all along... ah... never mind then... carry on!!

Where is your evidence that the Canaanite people and culture continued to exist and were written about during the Israelite kingdoms, the Hasmonean period and Roman Judea?

You have none. It's simply is not there. The Canaanite people and culture ceased to exist hundreds of years before Jesus. Maybe a thousand years before him.

If this was not the fact we would all know about it. Instead all you have is silly historical revisionism.

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Where is your evidence that the Canaanite people and culture continued to exist and were written about during the Israelite kingdoms, the Hasmonean period and Roman Judea?

You have none. It's simply is not there. The Canaanite people and culture ceased to exist hundreds of years before Jesus. Maybe a thousand years before him.

If this was not the fact we would all know about it. Instead all you have is silly historical revisionism.

Refusing to look at the evidence presented over and over again and then asserting it does not exist...

And that is on top of lack of understanding of anthropology and sociology and archaeology and history and ... well... altogether how human society works.

Originally Posted by Hercules56

If this was not the fact we would all know about it.

EDUCATED people know about it... and you would too if you did not refuse to read any of the presented evidence.

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Instead all ~~you~~ I have is silly historical revisionism.

IFTFY

However... here is another that you will refuse to read and then demand evidence that you will also yet again not read...

Quote:

The more we sequence the genomes of ancient people, the more obvious it becomes that migrations have been changing humanity since the Stone Age. But at the same time, there are astonishing continuities. Canaanites are the descendants of farmers who lived in the Levant thousands of years before the Bronze Age. And the Levantines of today are deeply related to the Canaanites of yesterday.

Put simply, the demise of the Canaanites has been greatly exaggerated.

Hercules56 · 8th November 2023, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

Refusing to look at the evidence presented over and over again and then asserting it does not exist...

And that is on top of lack of understanding of anthropology and sociology and archaeology and history and ... well... altogether how human society works.

EDUCATED people know about it... and you would too if you did not refuse to read any of the presented evidence.

IFTFY

However... here is another that you will refuse to read and then demand evidence that you will also yet again not read...

Your article never once mentioned the Palestinians. It says the Lebanese people of today are descended from the Canaanites. Of course they switching the term Phoenicians with Canaanites, which is debatable.

However it says clearly that the Lebanese people are descended from the Canaanites not the Palestinians.

Thanks for proving that I am right.

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Your article never once mentioned the Palestinians. It says the Lebanese people of today are descended from the Canaanites. Of course they switching the term Phoenicians with Canaanites, which is debatable.

However it says clearly that the Lebanese people are descended from the Canaanites not the Palestinians.

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Thanks for proving that I am right.

On the same track of not knowing anything about anything to do with history or anthropology or sociology or archaeology or geography or linguistics or history or ... did I say history already... or history

Hercules56 · 8th November 2023, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Leumas

On the same track of not knowing anything about anything to do with history or anthropology or sociology or archaeology or geography or linguistics or history or ... did I say history already... or history

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...fa996b2c50.jpg

Are you saying that the Lebanese people and the Palestinian people are the same??

LOL!!!!

That's a major fail, my man.

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Are you saying that the Lebanese people and the Palestinian people are the same??

LOL!!!!

That's a major fail, my man.

Yes... indeed... by you... as demonstrated by your very own illogical and erroneous posts...

Originally Posted by Hercules56

The ~~Palestinians~~ Lebanese speak the Arabic language, eat Arabic foods, celebrate and participate in Arabic culture. If they are in fact not Arab....what are they????

Huh? So the Lebanese according to your "criteria" listed above must be Arabs since they do all that just the same as the Palestinians.

So now you are saying that the Lebanese are Arabs... and the UN lists them as Arabs and they just as stupidly as the Palestinians claim they are arabs.

But... the Palestinians whom you claim are the same thing... are now different people???

Can you explain the contradictory assertion by you now?

Are you able to give

Originally Posted by Hercules56

an intelligent response.

Huh?

But I think by now even you can see the

Originally Posted by Hercules56

odd agenda

Behind the relentless insistence on making the Palestinians be arabs despite all FACTS of history and logic and anthropology and biology and sociology and linguistics and history and archaeology and history... and did I say history already… ah well.. and history

ETA: So the Lebanese and Palestinians who live less than 100 miles apart behind borders delineated to them on a map by their conquerors the French and British, are according to you certainly not the same people despite according to you participating in all those criteria you listed above....

BUT....

The Germans and Russians and Ukrainians and Indians and Ethiopians and Dutch and Americans and Yemenis and Polish and Italians and Moroccans and Chinese and and and from all over the globe with different foods and cultures and colors (as you say)... are all the same people because they worship the same delusions of the mythical peripatetic Sumerian pimp invented 2400 years ago as having been pimping his wife to any king who paid for her 4200 years ago?

lobosrul5 · 8th November 2023, 02:12 PM

Mods: can we please split off the are the Palestinians really Arabs or ancient peoples who have lived there without any genetic interference since ancient times question off to its own thread please?

ETA: apparently Hebrew is the only extant Canaanite language still around, are Israeli's the real indigenous population? Does it matter? Interesting topic of discussion just not for this thread I think.

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

Mods: can we please split off the are the Palestinians really Arabs or ancient peoples who have lived there without any genetic interference since ancient times question off to its own thread please?

ETA: apparently Hebrew is the only extant Canaanite language still around, are Israeli's the real indigenous population? Does it matter? Interesting topic of discussion just not for this thread I think.

This thread is called "GENERAL Israel/Palestinian Discussion"

No?

So when a conversation and discussion about Israel/Palestine is not to your liking you want to sweep it under the rug and DEMAND it be removed out of view of anyone trying to have an Israel/Palestine discussion?

Hmmm... WHY I wonder... why?

Is the DISCUSSION about the RACISM of the Zionists and propaganda lies being exposed not under the topic of GENERAL Israel/Palestine DISCUSSION?

You do not like this DISCUSSION about Israel/Palestine then start a new post to discuss what you want... under the heading of GENERAL discussion about Israel/Palestine.

This discussion about the Israel/Palestine problem of hoodwinking people and warping the FACTS about the Israel/Palestine issue of RACISM used to perpetuate Settler Colonialism of Palestine by Israel is most assuredly part of the GENERAL Israel/Palestine Discussion.

But it bespeaks oodles that you are trying to silence this discussion... and it is very clear why... it does not play well with the Zionist propaganda... and thus all power has to be deployed to SILENCE it... huh?

The Great Zaganza · 8th November 2023, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

In what way is it rational for Hamas to keep using rockets while they can? These rockets do not strike at Israeli military forces. They cannot prevent Israeli military action. They do not deter Israeli military action. The only thing the Hamas rockets are good for is the senseless murder of civilians.

Senseless acts of violence are generally considered the polar opposite of "extremely rational". You're saying the goal of Hamas is not to achieve victory, is not to achieve peace. It's just to murder people in a fit of rage until they are exterminated. And you're saying you find Hamas's murderous rage and its symptoms to be extremely rational. Which it is, if you happen to believe that murdering Jews is a good thing.

The goal is to demonstrate that they are capable of acting against Israel when no one else can or will.
This is of direct consequence when it comes to Israel trying to establish a replacement for Hamas.

It's not like the IDF will be more merciful if they don't fire their rockets.

Leumas · 8th November 2023, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

The goal is to demonstrate that they are capable of acting against Israel when no one else can or will.
This is of direct consequence when it comes to Israel trying to establish a replacement for Hamas.

It's not like the IDF will be more merciful if they don't fire their rockets.

And that is ignoring that Israel fomented and encouraged the creation of Hamas as a replacement for the PLO (or whatever they call themselves these days) terrorists who became white washed along with the terrorists of Zionism (e.g. Menachem Begin) .

webfusion · 8th November 2023, 04:26 PM

A full, official denouncement of violent activities against Palestinians being perpetrated by Jewish individuals in the Judea and Samaria territories.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/379976

"There is a tiny handful of people who do not represent this public, who take the law into their hands. We are not willing to tolerate it; we are not prepared to accept it; we will work against it in every manner. It causes heavy international damage to the State of Israel, and it does not represent the group sitting here. I condemn it, and we will work against it, and I know I represent everyone sitting here: the heads of the communities in Judea and Samaria and the civilian public in Judea and Samaria."
-- Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu

Hercules56 · 8th November 2023, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

A full, official denouncement of violent activities against Palestinians being perpetrated by Jewish individuals in the Judea and Samaria territories.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/379976

"There is a tiny handful of people who do not represent this public, who take the law into their hands. We are not willing to tolerate it; we are not prepared to accept it; we will work against it in every manner. It causes heavy international damage to the State of Israel, and it does not represent the group sitting here. I condemn it, and we will work against it, and I know I represent everyone sitting here: the heads of the communities in Judea and Samaria and the civilian public in Judea and Samaria."
-- Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu

Talk is cheap. Hundreds of Palestinians killed in the West Bank. At least 8 murdered by Settler-Colonizers. No arrests.

lionking · 8th November 2023, 04:49 PM

Not about the war (not many posts have been lately), but about the tone deafness of a major Australian retailer.

K-Mart thought it was a good idea to give away a bag with every Christmas ham purchased. Emblazoned with the words “Merry Hammas”. Australian Jews didn’t exactly see the humour, and the bag was quickly withdrawn.

I don’t know what K-Mart marketing staff are paid, but obviously not enough if they didn’t at least say the word to themselves and decide to pull the promotion.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/ho...0b1110021597a1

Hercules56 · 8th November 2023, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Leumas

This thread is called "GENERAL Israel/Palestinian Discussion"

No?

So when a conversation and discussion about Israel/Palestine is not to your liking you want to sweep it under the rug and DEMAND it be removed out of view of anyone trying to have an Israel/Palestine discussion?

Hmmm... WHY I wonder... why?

Is the DISCUSSION about the RACISM of the Zionists and propaganda lies being exposed not under the topic of GENERAL Israel/Palestine DISCUSSION?

You do not like this DISCUSSION about Israel/Palestine then start a new post to discuss what you want... under the heading of GENERAL discussion about Israel/Palestine.

This discussion about the Israel/Palestine problem of hoodwinking people and warping the FACTS about the Israel/Palestine issue of RACISM used to perpetuate Settler Colonialism of Palestine by Israel is most assuredly part of the GENERAL Israel/Palestine Discussion.

But it bespeaks oodles that you are trying to silence this discussion... and it is very clear why... it does not play well with the Zionist propaganda... and thus all power has to be deployed to SILENCE it... huh?

Most links suggest that the Arabs, Edomites, Moabites, Philistines, Phoenicians, Hebrews, are all descended from the ancient Canaanites. So the Jews and Arabs are brothers!!

8th November 2023, 12:11 AM	#161
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Photo Contest Winner Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 21,601	Originally Posted by Puppycow https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/11...hamas-war-gaza According to the most recent information there are still rockets being launched toward Israel. I don't know how much armed resistance the soldiers on the ground are encountering. If they want a "pause" they could start by stopping firing rockets but I don't think it makes military sense to pause the offensive and allow defenders to regroup. The IDF never made the cessation of missile attacks a reason to stop the occupation and elimination of Hamas, or even just of negotiation. It is therefore extremely rational for Hamas to use whatever they have left while they can.
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8th November 2023, 12:48 AM	#162
Cosmic Yak Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand. Posts: 6,523	Originally Posted by Hercules56 And I quote, from the 1968 Charter of the Palestine Liberation Organization: Just because the PLO says everyone living in Palestine before 1947 was an Arab, doesn't automatically make it true. It is in the interests of the PLO, and the opponents of Israel in general, to create the fiction of a distinct and separate Arab nation, that was displaced by the creation of the state of Israel. Records from the Ottoman Empire, and from the British Mandate, give the lie to this claim. tl/dr: What Leumas said, minus the foaming at the mouth invective.
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8th November 2023, 03:14 AM	#163
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487	Originally Posted by Leumas Just so that I am clear... what would all those Zionist terrorists in Israel do if the Palestinians all declared their conversion to Judaism? You're unclear and foggy, actually. Judaism has a detailed and complex methodology for conversion. You don't just 'declare' it, but rather, require a panel of religious Judges (Bet Din) to approve your intent and verify your Torah/halacha adoption. In Israel, it's a rigorous and long process, sometimes lasting more than a year, attending many classes and consultations with Rabbis, becoming an active participant in a Minyan, and of course, immersion into a ritual bath (mikva). Nice try to invent a theoretical that isn't a real option. Quote: Would they accept that and give them Aliyah rights just like say they gave the Africans or Indians? Both groups were well-established practitioners of Judaism, with Rabbis; Minyan formation; Torah reading; circumcision; traditional observance; marriage rituals; etc. You can't just snap your fingers and become a Jew like magic.
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8th November 2023, 03:25 AM	#164
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak ... tl/dr: What Leumas said, minus the foaming at the mouth invective. So it is "foaming at the mouth invective" to point out the fact that the PLO are moronic terrorists? Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak It is in the interests of the PLO, and the opponents of Israel in general, to create the fiction of a distinct and separate Arab nation, that was displaced by the creation of the state of Israel. The above statement is an arrant absurdity... it is in the interest of Zionism to create the lie that Palestinians are "arabs" as I have already explained... Originally Posted by Leumas By using that false epithet. ... And then the Xenophobic supremacist Settler Colonialists use fallacies and propaganda such as "Land Without a people for a people without a land" and "Squatters" and then turn around and say "they are arabs and there are many arab states why don't they just go there to where they came from and leave us poor oppressed homeless Settler Colonialists with that little piece of land that does not belong to them... but was promised by the god 65% of us do not believe in to a guy 100% of sane people know was a myth". and has already been demonstrated Originally Posted by webfusion The 'Arab World' consists of 22 countries in the Middle East and North Africa: Algeria, Bahrain, the Comoros Islands, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Mauritania, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen. Israel is less than 22,000 sq.miles of land area. It is home to a robust mixture of people. Including Ba'hai. Name another place on earth that the Ba'hai are comfortable in. (Iran?) Also... Arab nationalism and its terrorists were fomented and armed and trained by the British and the French in order to have a fifth column fighting the Ottoman Empire before and during WWI... nothing to do with Israel. The only correct statements in your post are these Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak Just because the PLO says everyone living in Palestine before 1947 was an Arab, doesn't automatically make it true. It is in the interests of the PLO, Because then they can go to the obscenely rich arabs and ask them for money which they can deposit in their accounts and get venally rich off of it... and part of it use to carry on with their heinous terrorism. ETA: to demonstrate how incorrect your statements above are... and that it is rather in the interest of Zionism to disseminate the lie that the Palestinians are "arabs"... answer this question Originally Posted by Leumas Just so that I am clear... what would all those Zionist terrorists in Israel do if the Palestinians all declared their conversion to Judaism? Would they accept that and give them Aliyah rights just like say they gave the Africans or Indians? You know the answer is a resounding and irrefragable NO... and that "no" is facilitated in favor of Zionism by perpetuating the lie that they are arabs.
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

8th November 2023, 04:33 AM	#165
Cosmic Yak Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand. Posts: 6,523	Originally Posted by Leumas So it is "foaming at the mouth invective" to point out the fact that the PLO are moronic terrorists? Yes. The tone of the entirety of your posts is one of spittle-flecked apoplexy. You can make your claims in calmer language, you know. There's really no need for this. Originally Posted by Leumas The above statement is an arrant absurdity... it is in the interest of Zionism to create the lie that Palestinians are "arabs" as I have already explained... You are both right and wrong, but as all you will do is endlessly repost your lengthy, overheated and largely irrelevant diatribes in response, I really do not see any point in trying to debate this with you. Life's too short.
	__________________ 'Of course it can be OK to mistreat people.'- shuttlt Yes, I'm back. Please be nice.

8th November 2023, 04:50 AM	#166
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by webfusion You're unclear and foggy, actually. No I am not because I already knew this very well... I just wanted to see what would Zionists reply... Originally Posted by webfusion Judaism has a detailed and complex methodology for conversion. You don't just 'declare' it, but rather, require a panel of religious Judges (Bet Din) to approve your intent and verify your Torah/halacha adoption. In Israel, it's a rigorous and long process, sometimes lasting more than a year, attending many classes and consultations with Rabbis, becoming an active participant in a Minyan, and of course, immersion into a ritual bath (mikva). Nice try to invent a theoretical that isn't a real option. THANKS!!! You have answered honestly... and thus it goes to prove the RACISM And XENOPHOBIA of Judaism. Originally Posted by webfusion You can't just snap your fingers and become a Jew like magic. Why not? What is so special about it? Why can't it be like Christianity where ANYONE ON EARTH can become a christian with a bit of water... or Islam where ANYONE ON EARTH can become one with reciting some claptrap. Why is Judaism such a RACIST XENOPHOBIC religion? Who decided to make it that way? It was not that way during the 140s BCE when the Hasmoneans went around FORCING judaism on anyone that came under their power in their newly minted kingdom... so why not now? Originally Posted by webfusion Both groups were well-established practitioners of Judaism, with Rabbis; Minyan formation; Torah reading; circumcision; traditional observance; marriage rituals; etc. So a European or Indian or African or Chinese who reads the Torah and is circumcised has more rights to the land of Palestine than the autochthonous peoples who were born and bread there generation after another for MILLENNIA... because they are Christian or Muslim rather than Jewish? There were followers of the religion of Judaism and Christianity in Palestine millennia before and after the "arabs" conquered it. So how do the European Rabbis know which of those Jewish and Christian PALESTINIANS did not convert to Islam by hook or by crook and become now Muslim Palestinians... or convert to Christianity also by the sword and became Christian Palestinians? Just like Palestinians before them were converted by the sword of the Hasmoneans to become Jewish Palestinians... no? Do you call the Mizrachim Arab Jews? And even if YOU do... are they arabs? So... thanks for yet again proving that the lie that Palestinians are arabs only goes to serve the Zionists' deliberate exclusion of them. ETA: Do you think that a Christians should be able to do Aliyah to Palestine and displace people from their homes and farms because this is the land of Jesus? Why not... why can an Indian or African or German or Russian or Polish or French or American Jew do that? ETAA: Do you think an Italian American should be able to go to Italy today and displace some Muslim Italian from his house in say Milan and claim it for himself because he has Italian ancestry? If not... than why can an Indian or Russian or Ethiopians or or or do that because s/he worships the sky daddy of some mythical guy from Sumer 4200 years ago?
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. Last edited by Leumas; 8th November 2023 at 05:19 AM.

8th November 2023, 05:03 AM	#167
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak Yes. The tone of the entirety of your posts is one of spittle-flecked apoplexy. You can make your claims in calmer language, you know. There's really no need for this. You are both right and wrong, but as all you will do is endlessly repost your lengthy, overheated and largely irrelevant diatribes in response, I really do not see any point in trying to debate this with you. Life's too short. So my "diatribe" against the PLO terrorists offends you... but your Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak ...spittle-flecked apoplexy... and ... overheated and largely irrelevant diatribes... against a member of this forum is fine and dandy? Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak You are both right and wrong You are right that I am right... because REALITY and history and facts prove me so... and I have shown those facts and cited them. But you are arrantly wrong that I am wrong because you have not an iota of anything to show that I am... nothing at all... just... Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak ...spittle-flecked apoplexy... and ... overheated and largely irrelevant diatribes... Directed at a member of the forum because I deride the moronic terrorists of the PLO.
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. Last edited by Leumas; 8th November 2023 at 05:29 AM.

8th November 2023, 05:18 AM	#168
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487	It appears that Leumas is engaged in a practice known as 'navel gazing' (omphaloskepsis) I wish him well in that endeavor. In the news, Hamas now says its fighters are advancing on Israeli troops and inflicting heavy damage to IDF. ("we're winning" is their mantra?) I noticed a story coming out of Gaza City, as Israeli soldiers were able to form a Minyan (prayer group quorum) in an ancient Jewish synagogue there which had been captured in the successful advance of their lines. Interesting social experiment https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/379602 "Do you support these things...?" (a fake petition to agree with allowing Hamas to take over all of Palestine/Israel)
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487

8th November 2023, 05:45 AM	#169
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by webfusion It appears that Leumas is engaged in a practice known as 'navel gazing' (omphaloskepsis) Haha... nope... I am systematically demonstrating the arrantly abject moral and historical and legal and ethical and humanitarian BANKRUPTCY of Zionism and Judaism. Thanks for helping me do that.
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

8th November 2023, 06:34 AM	#170
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas And that quote is meaningless codswallop written by idiots and terrorists. You would prefer to take the poppycock written by raving hideous terrorists instead of REALITY and HISTORY and GEOGRAPHY and ... did I say REALITY already?? You are denying anthropology and sociology and linguistics and archaeology and history and economics and REALITY altogether and prefer to believe the perfidious lies of terroristic morons. I am going to take the bait. The Palestinians speak the Arabic language, eat Arabic foods, celebrate and participate in Arabic culture. If they are in fact not Arab....what are they???? I expect an intelligent response.
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8th November 2023, 06:41 AM	#171
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487	Originally Posted by Leumas Haha... nope... I am systematically demonstrating the arrantly abject moral and historical and legal and ethical and humanitarian BANKRUPTCY of Zionism and Judaism. Thanks for helping me do that. Yer welcome, so glad it's helping ya. (your posts are sounding more and more like the HAMAS indicating "We're Winning") And this from Ron Dermer -- "...hopefully the Palestinians eventually will be able to choose a leadership that is committed to peaceful coexistence with Israel and not one that is determined to destroy Israel and that also teaches their children to live at peace with Israel and doesn't demonize Jews and demonize Israel." - SkyNews interview yesterday
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487

8th November 2023, 06:43 AM	#172
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas Haha... nope... I am systematically demonstrating the arrantly abject moral and historical and legal and ethical and humanitarian BANKRUPTCY of Zionism and Judaism. Thanks for helping me do that. Hamas clearly believes in targeting and killing Israeli civilians as part of their attempt to "liberate" Palestine. Does that mean Islam and Palestinian nationalism is ethically and morally bankrupt?
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8th November 2023, 07:02 AM	#173
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Hamas clearly believes in targeting and killing Israeli civilians as part of their attempt to "liberate" Palestine. Does that mean Islam and Palestinian nationalism is ethically and morally bankrupt? Yes... definitely. Nationalism of all sorts is the product of 19th and 20th century INSANITY and was the cause of mayhem and destruction and atrocities around the world... one of which is Zionism. The religions of the worship of an imaginary friend of a mythical peripatetic Sumerian pimp are the most HIDEOUS pyramid scheme ever wreaked upon humanity. Hamas and the PLO are terrorists and so are the Zionists of the various groups.
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

8th November 2023, 07:03 AM	#174
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487	Originally Posted by Hercules56 I am going to take the bait. The Palestinians speak the Arabic language, eat Arabic foods, celebrate and participate in Arabic culture. If they are in fact not Arab....what are they???? I expect an intelligent response. Previously, I suggested "Goobers" but they might run into copyright violation with that (See: Nestle) I've seen some discussions that make the case they are "Canaanites" I like this project --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lqEOR9UuBg Asking people on the streets what they think.
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487

8th November 2023, 07:11 AM	#175
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by webfusion Yer welcome, so glad it's helping ya. Originally Posted by webfusion (your posts are sounding more and more like the HAMAS indicating "We're Winning") And your above false statement sounds like theists claiming atheism is a religion. Originally Posted by webfusion And this from Ron Dermer -- "...hopefully the Palestinians eventually will be able to choose a leadership that is committed to peaceful coexistence with Israel and not one that is determined to destroy Israel and that also teaches their children to live at peace with Israel and doesn't demonize Jews and demonize Israel." - SkyNews interview yesterday Yes... and the reciprocal would be desirable too... but that would be utter waste of time... because the Zionist terrorists in Israel are not ever going to allow that.... because it would be an existential threat to the racist xenophobic supremacist settler colonialist ethos and ideology of Zionism.
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

8th November 2023, 07:15 AM	#176
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487	Just an aside regarding "The Brutal Occupation" -- if you watched the video of the street interviews, it was created in Nablus (Shechem in Hebrew) and just look at the background and it becomes instantly obvious how oppressed, how brutalized, how difficult are the lives of Palestinians in the Westbank. /s
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487	Last edited by webfusion; 8th November 2023 at 07:16 AM.

8th November 2023, 07:33 AM	#177
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by webfusion Previously, I suggested "Goobers" but they might run into copyright violation with that (See: Nestle) I've seen some discussions that make the case they are "Canaanites" I like this project --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lqEOR9UuBg Asking people on the streets what they think. LOL!!! The Canaanites ceased to exist long before the Roman takeover of Judea. If anyone is the descendants of the Canaanites, its the Jews. The Palestinian Arabs? They are most likely a mixture of some of the locals who were around during the Islamic conquests, and all of the different Muslim peoples who migrated to their region over the last 1,000 years. Arabs, Persians, Egyptians, Berbers, Turks, Circassians, Tatars, Bosnians, etc etc. But like many other people's of North Africa and the Middle East they adopted Arabic culture consider themselves to be Arabs and are part of the greater Arab nation. You as a white man have no business telling them what they are and who they are. If they want to be known as Arabs and have evidence to support this then they are Arabs. Regardless of what your white privilege tells you.
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8th November 2023, 07:36 AM	#178
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 67,171	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza The IDF never made the cessation of missile attacks a reason to stop the occupation and elimination of Hamas, or even just of negotiation. It is therefore extremely rational for Hamas to use whatever they have left while they can. In what way is it rational for Hamas to keep using rockets while they can? These rockets do not strike at Israeli military forces. They cannot prevent Israeli military action. They do not deter Israeli military action. The only thing the Hamas rockets are good for is the senseless murder of civilians. Senseless acts of violence are generally considered the polar opposite of "extremely rational". You're saying the goal of Hamas is not to achieve victory, is not to achieve peace. It's just to murder people in a fit of rage until they are exterminated. And you're saying you find Hamas's murderous rage and its symptoms to be extremely rational. Which it is, if you happen to believe that murdering Jews is a good thing.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

8th November 2023, 07:43 AM	#179
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Hercules56 The Palestinians speak the Arabic language.... Indians had English as their official language and so did many countries in Africa... are they English? Mexicans speak Spanish... are they Spanish? Egyptians speak arabic too... are they arabs? Do you even know anything about languages or linguistics? Or anthropology? Originally Posted by Hercules56 eat Arabic foods, No they do not... Palestinian cuisine is more akin to Greek and Turkish and Italians cuisines.... Arabia and its Bedouins never heard of any of the herbs and cereals and cooking methods of the ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS of Palestine and Syria and Turkey and Greece until they were introduced to them when they raped and pillaged those places. Originally Posted by Hercules56 celebrate and participate in Arabic culture. No they do not... other than perhaps the Muslim turpitude for the Muslim Palestinians.... which was imposed on them along with Islam. Christian Palestinians and Jewish Palestinians have not an iota of anything to do with anything to do with Arabic "culture". Originally Posted by Hercules56 If they are in fact not Arab.... Yes... they are in fact not arabs. Originally Posted by Hercules56 ....what are they???? Well... the answer is very simple... wait for it... Palestinians Originally Posted by Hercules56 I expect an intelligent response. I already gave you many before... and now some more... are you able to understand them?
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

8th November 2023, 07:50 AM	#181
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas Indians had English as their official language and so did many countries in Africa... are they English? Mexicans speak Spanish... are they Spanish? Egyptians speak arabic too... are they arabs? Do you even know anything about languages or linguistics? Or anthropology? No they do not... Palestinian cuisine is more akin to Greek and Turkish and Italians cuisines.... Arabia and its Bedouins never heard of any of the herbs and cereals and cooking methods of the ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS of Palestine and Syria and Turkey and Greece until they were introduced to them when they raped and pillaged those places. No they do not... other than perhaps the Muslim turpitude for the Muslim Palestinians.... which was imposed on them along with Islam. Christian Palestinians and Jewish Palestinians have not an iota of anything to do with anything to do with Arabic "culture". Yes... they are in fact not arabs. Well... the answer is very simple... wait for it... Palestinians I already gave you many before... and now some more... are you able to understand them? The modern day Egyptian people are in fact a mixture of Arabs and others. Many Mexicans do have Spanish ancestry and all of them are considered Hispanic. You seem to have an odd agenda that none of us can understand. But historical accuracy is clearly not it. Your white privilege makes you think that you have the right to tell Arabs that they are in fact not Arabs. Its sad.
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

8th November 2023, 07:55 AM	#182
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Hercules56 LOL!!! The Canaanites ceased to exist long before the Roman takeover of Judea. If anyone is the descendants of the Canaanites, its the Jews. The Palestinian Arabs? They are most likely a mixture of some of the locals who were around during the Islamic conquests, and all of the different Muslim peoples who migrated to their region over the last 1,000 years. Arabs, Persians, Egyptians, Berbers, Turks, Circassians, Tatars, Bosnians, etc etc. But like many other people's of North Africa and the Middle East they adopted Arabic culture consider themselves to be Arabs and are part of the greater Arab nation. You as a white man have no business telling them what they are and who they are. If they want to be known as Arabs and have evidence to support this then they are Arabs. Regardless of what your white privilege tells you. Every sentence in the above is an error stemming out of lack of understanding of history, anthropology, archaeology, sociology, linguistics, and altogether the REALITY of how humanity works.
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

8th November 2023, 08:11 AM	#183
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Hercules56 The modern day Egyptian people are in fact a mixture of Arabs and others. So not arabs... and many are not a mixture... so not arabs... and arabs themselves are a mixture... so not arabs... And all humanity is a mixture... If only you knew anything about anthropology and sociology and linguistics and history you would know. Originally Posted by Hercules56 Many Mexicans do have Spanish ancestry and all of them are considered Hispanic. Are the ones who were the victims and the slaves of the Spanish ancestry who were Aztecs and Mayas also Spanish then? And do you know what the Spanish are themselves? They are Iberians and Romans and Visigoths and Moors and Arabs and Vikings.... so are they Arabs too? Or Germans perhaps? So does that make the Mexicans Arabs too or Germans or Vikings? Originally Posted by Hercules56 You seem to have an odd agenda Nope... the agenda is yours and the Zionists' Originally Posted by Hercules56 that none of us can understand. But historical accuracy is clearly not it. If you could understand it you would know how historically accurate it is ... not to mention also all the other fields that you do not know as well. Originally Posted by Hercules56 Your white privilege makes you think that you have the right to tell Arabs that they are in fact not Arabs. Its sad. You keep repeating this "white privilege" chant... what is the agenda there?? I explained to you before that it is called EDUCATION that has nothing to do with any color... but yes... it is a privilege indeed to be EDUCATED and thus can read and comprehend history and anthropology and sociology and linguistics and archaeology and REAL stuff instead of myths and propaganda. And it is incumbent on educated people of all colors to share that education with people of all colors.
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. Last edited by Leumas; 8th November 2023 at 08:13 AM.

8th November 2023, 08:34 AM	#184
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Hercules56 LOL!!! The Canaanites ceased to exist long before the Roman takeover of Judea. See I told you that you do not know history.... Furthermore... you are not willing to read anything that can prove your errors about history.... I already gave you this... which completely debunks your above statement Originally Posted by Leumas ...How about the fact that one of the disciples of Jesus was a Canaanite as stated in the book of Acts and in Luke? ... And here is another one that also rives your above historically wrong assertion.... Originally Posted by Hercules56 If anyone is the descendants of the Canaanites, its the Jews. Judaism is a RELIGION not a race... and thus Canaanites could have converted as indeed they clearly did by being Palestinian Jews and Christians. You seem to be under the impression that being Jewish is a race... do you think being Christian is a race? All these are Jews... which one do you think was the Canaanite?
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

8th November 2023, 08:56 AM	#185
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas See I told you that you do not know history.... Furthermore... you are not willing to read anything that can prove your errors about history.... I already gave you this... which completely debunks your above statement And here is another one that also rives your above historically wrong assertion.... Judaism is a RELIGION not a race... and thus Canaanites could have converted as indeed they clearly did by being Palestinian Jews and Christians. You seem to be under the impression that being Jewish is a race... do you think being Christian is a race? All these are Jews... which one do you think was the Canaanite? http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7f70112e27.jpg http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7ecdedae7e.jpg http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7eaff11cfe.jpg The Canaanites ceased to exist more than 2,000 years ago. There is no mention of them existing as a people or a culture anywhere, during the hasmonian or even jesus's time. They simply no longer exist and were absorbed into the larger Israelite population, long before the Roman destruction of Judea. https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms." Last edited by Hercules56; 8th November 2023 at 09:04 AM.

8th November 2023, 09:28 AM	#186
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Hercules56 The Canaanites ceased to exist more than 2,000 years ago. There is no mention of them existing as a people or a culture anywhere, during the hasmonian or even jesus's time. They simply no longer exist and were absorbed into the larger Israelite population, long before the Roman destruction of Judea. https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine Repeating a falsity over and over despite being presented with the irrefragable evidence proving the error... is not going to ever make the evidence riving the error go away... nor will it ever make the error a truth... oh... wait... wait... isn't that what the Zionists have been doing all along... ah... never mind then... carry on!!
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

8th November 2023, 09:47 AM	#187
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas Repeating a falsity over and over despite being presented with the irrefragable evidence proving the error... is not going to ever make the evidence riving the error go away... nor will it ever make the error a truth... oh... wait... wait... isn't that what the Zionists have been doing all along... ah... never mind then... carry on!! Where is your evidence that the Canaanite people and culture continued to exist and were written about during the Israelite kingdoms, the Hasmonean period and Roman Judea? You have none. It's simply is not there. The Canaanite people and culture ceased to exist hundreds of years before Jesus. Maybe a thousand years before him. If this was not the fact we would all know about it. Instead all you have is silly historical revisionism.
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8th November 2023, 10:17 AM	#188
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Where is your evidence that the Canaanite people and culture continued to exist and were written about during the Israelite kingdoms, the Hasmonean period and Roman Judea? You have none. It's simply is not there. The Canaanite people and culture ceased to exist hundreds of years before Jesus. Maybe a thousand years before him. If this was not the fact we would all know about it. Instead all you have is silly historical revisionism. Refusing to look at the evidence presented over and over again and then asserting it does not exist... And that is on top of lack of understanding of anthropology and sociology and archaeology and history and ... well... altogether how human society works. Originally Posted by Hercules56 If this was not the fact we would all know about it. EDUCATED people know about it... and you would too if you did not refuse to read any of the presented evidence. Originally Posted by Hercules56 Instead all ~~you~~ I have is silly historical revisionism. IFTFY However... here is another that you will refuse to read and then demand evidence that you will also yet again not read... Quote: The more we sequence the genomes of ancient people, the more obvious it becomes that migrations have been changing humanity since the Stone Age. But at the same time, there are astonishing continuities. Canaanites are the descendants of farmers who lived in the Levant thousands of years before the Bronze Age. And the Levantines of today are deeply related to the Canaanites of yesterday. Put simply, the demise of the Canaanites has been greatly exaggerated.
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

8th November 2023, 10:25 AM	#189
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas Refusing to look at the evidence presented over and over again and then asserting it does not exist... And that is on top of lack of understanding of anthropology and sociology and archaeology and history and ... well... altogether how human society works. EDUCATED people know about it... and you would too if you did not refuse to read any of the presented evidence. IFTFY However... here is another that you will refuse to read and then demand evidence that you will also yet again not read... Your article never once mentioned the Palestinians. It says the Lebanese people of today are descended from the Canaanites. Of course they switching the term Phoenicians with Canaanites, which is debatable. However it says clearly that the Lebanese people are descended from the Canaanites not the Palestinians. Thanks for proving that I am right.
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

8th November 2023, 11:51 AM	#190
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Your article never once mentioned the Palestinians. It says the Lebanese people of today are descended from the Canaanites. Of course they switching the term Phoenicians with Canaanites, which is debatable. However it says clearly that the Lebanese people are descended from the Canaanites not the Palestinians. Originally Posted by Hercules56 Thanks for proving that I am right. On the same track of not knowing anything about anything to do with history or anthropology or sociology or archaeology or geography or linguistics or history or ... did I say history already... or history
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

8th November 2023, 12:08 PM	#191
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas On the same track of not knowing anything about anything to do with history or anthropology or sociology or archaeology or geography or linguistics or history or ... did I say history already... or history http://www.internationalskeptics.com...fa996b2c50.jpg Are you saying that the Lebanese people and the Palestinian people are the same?? LOL!!!! That's a major fail, my man.
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

8th November 2023, 02:10 PM	#192
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Are you saying that the Lebanese people and the Palestinian people are the same?? LOL!!!! That's a major fail, my man. Yes... indeed... by you... as demonstrated by your very own illogical and erroneous posts... Originally Posted by Hercules56 The ~~Palestinians~~ Lebanese speak the Arabic language, eat Arabic foods, celebrate and participate in Arabic culture. If they are in fact not Arab....what are they???? Huh? So the Lebanese according to your "criteria" listed above must be Arabs since they do all that just the same as the Palestinians. So now you are saying that the Lebanese are Arabs... and the UN lists them as Arabs and they just as stupidly as the Palestinians claim they are arabs. But... the Palestinians whom you claim are the same thing... are now different people??? Can you explain the contradictory assertion by you now? Are you able to give Originally Posted by Hercules56 an intelligent response. Huh? But I think by now even you can see the Originally Posted by Hercules56 odd agenda Behind the relentless insistence on making the Palestinians be arabs despite all FACTS of history and logic and anthropology and biology and sociology and linguistics and history and archaeology and history... and did I say history already… ah well.. and history ETA: So the Lebanese and Palestinians who live less than 100 miles apart behind borders delineated to them on a map by their conquerors the French and British, are according to you certainly not the same people despite according to you participating in all those criteria you listed above.... BUT.... The Germans and Russians and Ukrainians and Indians and Ethiopians and Dutch and Americans and Yemenis and Polish and Italians and Moroccans and Chinese and and and from all over the globe with different foods and cultures and colors (as you say)... are all the same people because they worship the same delusions of the mythical peripatetic Sumerian pimp invented 2400 years ago as having been pimping his wife to any king who paid for her 4200 years ago?
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. Last edited by Leumas; 8th November 2023 at 03:22 PM.

8th November 2023, 02:12 PM	#193
lobosrul5 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 6,718	Mods: can we please split off the are the Palestinians really Arabs or ancient peoples who have lived there without any genetic interference since ancient times question off to its own thread please? ETA: apparently Hebrew is the only extant Canaanite language still around, are Israeli's the real indigenous population? Does it matter? Interesting topic of discussion just not for this thread I think.
lobosrul5 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 6,718	Last edited by lobosrul5; 8th November 2023 at 02:14 PM.

8th November 2023, 03:01 PM	#194
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by lobosrul5 Mods: can we please split off the are the Palestinians really Arabs or ancient peoples who have lived there without any genetic interference since ancient times question off to its own thread please? ETA: apparently Hebrew is the only extant Canaanite language still around, are Israeli's the real indigenous population? Does it matter? Interesting topic of discussion just not for this thread I think. This thread is called "GENERAL Israel/Palestinian Discussion" No? So when a conversation and discussion about Israel/Palestine is not to your liking you want to sweep it under the rug and DEMAND it be removed out of view of anyone trying to have an Israel/Palestine discussion? Hmmm... WHY I wonder... why? Is the DISCUSSION about the RACISM of the Zionists and propaganda lies being exposed not under the topic of GENERAL Israel/Palestine DISCUSSION? You do not like this DISCUSSION about Israel/Palestine then start a new post to discuss what you want... under the heading of GENERAL discussion about Israel/Palestine. This discussion about the Israel/Palestine problem of hoodwinking people and warping the FACTS about the Israel/Palestine issue of RACISM used to perpetuate Settler Colonialism of Palestine by Israel is most assuredly part of the GENERAL Israel/Palestine Discussion. But it bespeaks oodles that you are trying to silence this discussion... and it is very clear why... it does not play well with the Zionist propaganda... and thus all power has to be deployed to SILENCE it... huh?
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. Last edited by Leumas; 8th November 2023 at 03:35 PM.

8th November 2023, 03:09 PM	#195
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Photo Contest Winner Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 21,601	Originally Posted by theprestige In what way is it rational for Hamas to keep using rockets while they can? These rockets do not strike at Israeli military forces. They cannot prevent Israeli military action. They do not deter Israeli military action. The only thing the Hamas rockets are good for is the senseless murder of civilians. Senseless acts of violence are generally considered the polar opposite of "extremely rational". You're saying the goal of Hamas is not to achieve victory, is not to achieve peace. It's just to murder people in a fit of rage until they are exterminated. And you're saying you find Hamas's murderous rage and its symptoms to be extremely rational. Which it is, if you happen to believe that murdering Jews is a good thing. The goal is to demonstrate that they are capable of acting against Israel when no one else can or will. This is of direct consequence when it comes to Israel trying to establish a replacement for Hamas. It's not like the IDF will be more merciful if they don't fire their rockets.
	__________________ “Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.”

8th November 2023, 03:30 PM	#196
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza The goal is to demonstrate that they are capable of acting against Israel when no one else can or will. This is of direct consequence when it comes to Israel trying to establish a replacement for Hamas. It's not like the IDF will be more merciful if they don't fire their rockets. And that is ignoring that Israel fomented and encouraged the creation of Hamas as a replacement for the PLO (or whatever they call themselves these days) terrorists who became white washed along with the terrorists of Zionism (e.g. Menachem Begin) .
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. Last edited by Leumas; 8th November 2023 at 03:32 PM.