[Continuation] General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4 - Page 9

webfusion · 10th November 2023, 10:03 AM

The identity of the man who struck and caused the death of Paul Kessler has now been identified to the public (not by the cops, but through 'detective work' by social media).
His name is Loay Alnaji, a convert to Islam, and it's been revealed that he was charged with murder before (in Dubai). Alnaji was sentenced to death in Dubai for murder, which was later reduced to manslaughter after he paid monetary compensation to the family of the victim and he was subsequently released from prison. His social media accounts are allegedly replete with support for HAMAS.

Hercules56 · 10th November 2023, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

It is totally not true... which is why you keep bare asserting despite the FACTS of international law and sanity.

Originally Posted by Leumas

Israel was created by international law... and it has not obeyed a single other ever since... and broken numerous ones.

The Palestinians were ****** by international law and dispossessed and made refugees... international law in fact fully allows their armed resistance as totally legitimate.

So I am afraid you have it totally all muddled up and topsy turvy... I suggest you learn the history and international laws on the matter... you very clearly do not know either.

The Arabs have rejected international law time and time and time again, before Israel was created and after. Never hear you complain about that once. I guess you think international law is only for Jews but not for Arabs?

Leumas · 10th November 2023, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Because the people the Afrikaans were in a conflict with hadn't declared a Holy War on the entire world?

Because the people the Afrikaans were in a conflict with wouldn't kill me, you, everyone in this thread, and every Western Coffee Shop Liberal no matter how hard they simp for them?

The muslim insanity has been the direct result of...

this... and this... and this... and most importantly this... and this... and and and and and

JoeMorgue · 10th November 2023, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

The muslim insanity has been the direct result of...

this... and this... and this... and most importantly this... and this... and and and and and

So Muslims have been treated bad so they just get to do whatever they want?

Hercules56 · 10th November 2023, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So Muslims have been treated bad so they just get to do whatever they want?

He seems to be suggesting that very thing. Muslims have been treated bad therefore they are not bound by international law. Only Jews are.

Leumas · 10th November 2023, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

The Arabs ... Arabs?

What does that have to with the Palestinians... why do you keep returning to this error again???

JoeMorgue · 10th November 2023, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

What does that have to with the Palestinians... why do you keep returning to this error again???

Because we're not living in a fantasy world where this is an isolated conflict and not part of a larger "The Muslim World hates Jews and wants them all dead and Israel gone" one.

Hercules56 · 10th November 2023, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

What does that have to with the Palestinians... why do you keep returning to this error again???

Please don't edit my comments again like that.

What does this have to do with the Palestinian Arabs? That makes no sense.

Leumas · 10th November 2023, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So Muslims have been treated bad so they just get to do whatever they want?

No... MUSLIM CRAZIES have been aided and financed and armed and trained since 1900s by the British and then the USA.... READ HISTORY.

The Taliban were created by the USA to fight Russia by Proxy.... read the bloody links I gave you before you assume a strawman.

JoeMorgue · 10th November 2023, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

No... MUSLIM CRAZIES have been aided and financed and armed and trained since 1900s by the British and then the USA.... READ HISTORY.

So Muslims get to kill Jews in 2023 because Reagan had such a hard on for stopping communism he backed the Mujahedeen?

Leumas · 10th November 2023, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

He seems to be suggesting that very thing. Muslims have been treated bad therefore they are not bound by international law. Only Jews are.

I would have told you to read the links I cited before you assume a strawman... but I know you will never do that .... but...

Hercules56 · 10th November 2023, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

I would have told you to read the links I cited before you assume a strawman... but I know you will never do that .... but...

Have you ever condemned the Arabs for violating international law before and after 1948?

JoeMorgue · 10th November 2023, 10:21 AM

I'm convinced. Israel gets to invade Germany and kill 6 million modern day, secular, non-Nazi German civilians s and that's totally fair and makes sense because the Holocaust happened.

("IB4 No that's totally different that's a strawman...")

Leumas · 10th November 2023, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So Muslims get to kill Jews in 2023 because Reagan had such a hard on for stopping communism he backed the Mujahedeen?

And because Zionists equally as crazy went to their lands from an equally crazy Europe and have been ethnically cleansing them since the 1900s too.

Have you read the cited links... I bet you have not...

Let me ask you a question...

If you enter a room and observe A punching B in the face.... do you then conclude that A is the aggressor?

Ziggurat · 10th November 2023, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

The Taliban were created by the USA to fight Russia by Proxy.... read the bloody links I gave you before you assume a strawman.

No, they were not. The Taliban were founded in 1994. They didn't even exist until after the Soviet Union collapsed. The Taliban are a creation of Pakistan, not the USA, and they never fought the Russians.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

webfusion · 10th November 2023, 10:25 AM

I need quickly to return to the statement that "Israel was created by International Law"

The Jewish State of Israel was not 'created' by the UN. In fact, UNGA merely passed a resolution recommending a partition. The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not possess any authority to recognize or create either a State or a Government.
Palestine (State) is recognized by 136 UN member nations.

Hercules56 · 10th November 2023, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

I'm convinced. Israel gets to invade Germany and kill 6 million modern day, secular, non-Nazi German civilians s and that's totally fair and makes sense because the Holocaust happened.

("IB4 No that's totally different that's a strawman...")

Yes, Leumas is saying that during WW2, Jewish partisans would have been legally and morally justified in launching massacres upon German villages full of civilians.

Hercules56 · 10th November 2023, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

I need quickly to return to the statement that "Israel was created by International Law"

The Jewish State of Israel was not 'created' by the UN. In fact, UNGA merely passed a resolution recommending a partition. The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not possess any authority to recognize or create either a State or a Government.
Palestine (State) is recognized by 136 UN member nations.

Wrong. If the UN and the international community did not recognize Israel's existence in 1949 then they would not have been a state, just an illegal entity.

Leumas · 10th November 2023, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

I'm convinced. Israel gets to invade Germany and kill 6 million modern day, secular, non-Nazi German civilians s and that's totally fair and makes sense because the Holocaust happened.

("IB4 No that's totally different that's a strawman...")

Ah... but the victims of Nazi Germany get to invade Palestine and take it over and Ethnically Cleanse it and confine the rest in concentration camps and

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

... that's totally fair and makes sense because the Holocaust happened.

It is not ok for Zionists to take back THEIR ANCESTRAL lands and houses in Europe from which they were expelled and murdered very recently and within many living Zionists' memory today... but it is ok to take the ancestral lands and houses of the Palestinians???

JoeMorgue · 10th November 2023, 10:29 AM

There is no such thing as a "legit country" because the only thing that makes a country a country is other countries agreeing you are a country. That's how we live in a world where Vatican City is a country and Hong Kong is not and absolutely no objective definition of "Country" you can make where that can make sense.

The whole "Israel was created by blah blah blah" is a red herring. Every country in the world declared itself through statements of power and land grabbing except maybe Singapore the only modern nation-state to become independent against its will which is hilarious but a story for another day.

This is where Liberal White Guilt about Colonialism breaks down because nobody would get to live anywhere if it was really a problem that needed to be solved.

"Oh I don't live in the exact same square foot as our ancestors lived a thousand years ago." Wah ya' ******* babies suck it up.

Hercules56 · 10th November 2023, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

Ah... but the victims of Nazi Germany get to invade Palestine and take it over and Ethnically Cleanse it and confine the rest in concentration camps and...

There are no concentration camps in Palestine. Your hyperbole is dishonest and absurd.

Leumas · 10th November 2023, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Yes, Leumas is saying that during WW2, Jewish partisans would have been legally and morally justified in launching massacres upon German villages full of civilians.

And you are opposed to that on what grounds exactly??? Haven't the allies done EXACTLY that all over Germany and Japan and Italy and North Africa???

Hercules56 · 10th November 2023, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

It is not ok for Zionists to take back THEIR ANCESTRAL lands and houses in Europe from which they were very recently and within many living Zionists today... but it is ok to take the ancestral lands and houses of the Palestinians???

Do you believe it is morally and legally just for Jews to murder Poles, Russians, Germans, Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenians, Serbians, Austrians, Hungarians, than live in homes that used to be theirs?

JoeMorgue · 10th November 2023, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

It is not ok for Zionists to take back THEIR ANCESTRAL lands and houses in Europe from which they were very recently and within many living Zionists today... but it is ok to take the ancestral lands and houses of the Palestinians???

Again it's not my fault you've swallowed Muslim propaganda about a "Sacred Palestinian Homeland" that nobody gave a crap about until they put Jews on it.

If you honestly believe that this is about where some group of people called the "Palestinians" who are 100% indistinguishable in language, race, ethnicity, and culture from the people who live in Muslim mono-states around Israel I don't know what to tell you.

webfusion · 10th November 2023, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

*snip crazy Zionists...*
Let me ask you a question...

If you enter a room and observe A punching B in the face.... do you then conclude that A is the aggressor?

Not a hypothetical, let's look to the murderous incident Nov 5th in Ventura county, California.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/evidence-a...y?id=104777340

Mr. Kessler was struck in the face by a bullhorn (megaphone). He is "B"
Mr Alnaji struck him. He is "A"

Without video of the actual interaction, what can we conclude?

Hercules56 · 10th November 2023, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

And you are opposed to that on what grounds exactly??? Haven't the allies done EXACTLY that all over Germany and Japan and Italy and North Africa???

I don't believe in murdering civilians. Its terribly immoral and unjust.

Leumas · 10th November 2023, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

There are no concentration camps in Palestine.

Yes there is... your denial is what is

Originally Posted by Hercules56

... hyperbole is dishonest and absurd.

Hercules56 · 10th November 2023, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

Yes there is... your denial is what is

Concentration camps don't have malls, shopping centers, fancy hotels and pools. And a giant beach.

webfusion · 10th November 2023, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Wrong. If the UN and the international community did not recognize Israel's existence in 1949 then they would not have been a state, just an illegal entity.

In 1949, the UN accepted Israel as a member. On May 11, 1949 the UN General Assembly votes 37 to 12, with 9 abstentions, to admit Israel as a member state, making her the 59th member of the United Nations.

You really need to brush up on how the UN operates. (or fails to operate, YMMV)

Leumas · 10th November 2023, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Not a hypothetical, let's look to the murderous incident ....

of ... well.... throughout the last two centuries... Imperialist Colonialists... ******* indigenous peoples in FIVE CONTINENTS...

Originally Posted by webfusion

...
Without video of the actual interaction, what can we conclude?

But we also have video and 8mm films and news reals and archives and HISTORY GALORE... that none of you would even DARE to read... ever.

JoeMorgue · 10th November 2023, 10:43 AM

Okay and? Even if this kind of absurd "X people have been treated bad ergo they get to commit violence NOW" argument wasn't just a complete load of sawdust and manure it applies to the Jews more.

You ain't gonna win a "We've historically been treated bad" dick waving contest with the Jews.

Again unless you are incapable of looking at anything outside of the context of Liberal Victim Ranking, but if that's not my problem to solve.

webfusion · 10th November 2023, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Concentration camps don't have malls, shopping centers, fancy hotels and pools. And a giant beach.

Theresienstadt was cynically described as a "spa town" where elderly German Jews could "retire" in safety.
Writers, professors, musicians, and actors gave lectures, concerts, and theater performances.

While I'm absolutely certain that Gaza does not rise anywhere into the universe of Concentration Camps, it can be said that the Gaza Strip is in need of some serious re-thinking of what it represents and what the future holds for Gazans. That exact conversation is happening now, thankfully.
However, using Nazi terminology is not of any value to the conversation, and leads nowhere.

webfusion · 10th November 2023, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

of ... well.... throughout the last two centuries... Imperialist Colonialists... ******* indigenous peoples in FIVE CONTINENTS...
But we also have video and 8mm films and news reels and archives and HISTORY GALORE... that none of you would even DARE to read... ever.

I asked about a specific and well-known current event. Why are you sidestepping my direct question and going off about two centuries of history? Mr. Kessler was struck, and died. You asked a hypothetical, and I narrowed it down to reality. Aren't you interested in reality? C'mon, we have A and B.
Do you conclude that A is the aggressor?

JoeMorgue · 10th November 2023, 10:51 AM

So to sum up:

A member of the IDF kills a Muslim: We talk about that.
A member of Hamas kills a Jew: "Let's talk about the evils of Western colonialism and list every bad thing that's ever happened to a Muslim ever."

Leumas · 10th November 2023, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

....
This is where Liberal White Guilt about Colonialism breaks down because nobody would get to live anywhere if it was really a problem that needed to be solved....

Except in Israel where INDIANS and Africans and Russians and Ukrainians and Germans and Polish etc. can THUMP the poppycock of the TORAH as a title deed from an imaginary sky daddy of a mythical peripatetic Sumerian pimp.

With the "Liberal White Guilt" aiding and abetting and arming and giving annually BILLION$$$ and hoodwinking the crimes going on there.... to alleviate their "Liberal White Guilt"... while decrying the Palestinians for resisting present and clear CRIMES against them as "Liberal White Guilt" pulling.... wow!!!

JoeMorgue · 10th November 2023, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

Except in Israel where INDIANS and Africans and Russians and Ukrainians and Germans and Polish etc. can THUMP the poppycock of the TORAH as a title deed from an imaginary sky daddy of a mythical peripatetic Sumerian pimp.

With the "Liberal White Guilt" aiding and abetting and arming and giving annually BILLION$$$ and hoodwinking the crimes going on there.... to alleviate their "Liberal White Guilt"... while decrying the Palestinians for resisting present and clear CRIMES against them as "Liberal White Guilt" pulling.... wow!!!

For someone with "strawman" on their word of the day calendar you are responding to what people are actually saying less and less and just doing more and more unhinged ranting with each post.

I halfway expect a pidgin English routine to start up.

Leumas · 10th November 2023, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So to sum up:

A member of the IDF kills a Muslim: We talk about that.
A member of Hamas kills a Jew: "Let's talk about the evils of Western colonialism and list every bad thing that's ever happened to a Muslim ever."

No your summation is a risible and obvious strawman....

I asked you a question which you did not answer... it got answered by another guy with giving an example of a recent crime he is harping on about... which ahs nothing to do with the question and is arrantly irrelevant.

And now instead of answering the question you are strawmanning.

Originally Posted by Leumas

And because Zionists equally as crazy went to their lands from an equally crazy Europe and have been ethnically cleansing them since the 1900s too.

Have you read the cited links... I bet you have not...

Let me ask you a question...

If you enter a room and observe A punching B in the face.... do you then conclude that A is the aggressor?

Planigale · 10th November 2023, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

You really should not talk about international law until you expect the Palestinian Arabs to abide by it. Which Hamas and Islamic jihad and Hezbollah refuse to do.

But neither does Israel. And Likud will not recognise the right of the Palestinians to a independent state and are committed to the illegal settlement of the West Bank.

Likud is not even the most extreme member of the Israeli government.

JoeMorgue · 10th November 2023, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Leumas

I asked you a question which you did not answer.

And you've been asked a dozen questions and haven't answers. Deal with it.

webfusion · 10th November 2023, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Let me ask you a question...

If you enter a room and observe A punching B in the face.... do you then conclude that A is the aggressor?

The Forum was posed a hypothetical, and I responded by presenting a real-world actual example (so far, no crime has been charged) that we can look at and talk about. It's quite unfortunate to realize that Leumas is not interested in an actual discussion.

Well, I tried.

10th November 2023, 10:03 AM	#321
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487	The identity of the man who struck and caused the death of Paul Kessler has now been identified to the public (not by the cops, but through 'detective work' by social media). His name is Loay Alnaji, a convert to Islam, and it's been revealed that he was charged with murder before (in Dubai). Alnaji was sentenced to death in Dubai for murder, which was later reduced to manslaughter after he paid monetary compensation to the family of the victim and he was subsequently released from prison. His social media accounts are allegedly replete with support for HAMAS.
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487

10th November 2023, 10:07 AM	#322
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas It is totally not true... which is why you keep bare asserting despite the FACTS of international law and sanity. Originally Posted by Leumas Israel was created by international law... and it has not obeyed a single other ever since... and broken numerous ones. The Palestinians were ****** by international law and dispossessed and made refugees... international law in fact fully allows their armed resistance as totally legitimate. So I am afraid you have it totally all muddled up and topsy turvy... I suggest you learn the history and international laws on the matter... you very clearly do not know either. The Arabs have rejected international law time and time and time again, before Israel was created and after. Never hear you complain about that once. I guess you think international law is only for Jews but not for Arabs?
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

10th November 2023, 10:08 AM	#323
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Because the people the Afrikaans were in a conflict with hadn't declared a Holy War on the entire world? Because the people the Afrikaans were in a conflict with wouldn't kill me, you, everyone in this thread, and every Western Coffee Shop Liberal no matter how hard they simp for them? The muslim insanity has been the direct result of... this... and this... and this... and most importantly this... and this... and and and and and
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

10th November 2023, 10:12 AM	#324
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 46,102	Originally Posted by Leumas The muslim insanity has been the direct result of... this... and this... and this... and most importantly this... and this... and and and and and So Muslims have been treated bad so they just get to do whatever they want?
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

10th November 2023, 10:13 AM	#325
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue So Muslims have been treated bad so they just get to do whatever they want? He seems to be suggesting that very thing. Muslims have been treated bad therefore they are not bound by international law. Only Jews are.
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

10th November 2023, 10:13 AM	#326
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Hercules56 The Arabs ... Arabs? What does that have to with the Palestinians... why do you keep returning to this error again???
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

10th November 2023, 10:16 AM	#327
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 46,102	Originally Posted by Leumas What does that have to with the Palestinians... why do you keep returning to this error again??? Because we're not living in a fantasy world where this is an isolated conflict and not part of a larger "The Muslim World hates Jews and wants them all dead and Israel gone" one.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

10th November 2023, 10:16 AM	#328
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas What does that have to with the Palestinians... why do you keep returning to this error again??? Please don't edit my comments again like that. What does this have to do with the Palestinian Arabs? That makes no sense.
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

10th November 2023, 10:17 AM	#329
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue So Muslims have been treated bad so they just get to do whatever they want? No... MUSLIM CRAZIES have been aided and financed and armed and trained since 1900s by the British and then the USA.... READ HISTORY. The Taliban were created by the USA to fight Russia by Proxy.... read the bloody links I gave you before you assume a strawman.
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

10th November 2023, 10:19 AM	#330
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 46,102	Originally Posted by Leumas No... MUSLIM CRAZIES have been aided and financed and armed and trained since 1900s by the British and then the USA.... READ HISTORY. So Muslims get to kill Jews in 2023 because Reagan had such a hard on for stopping communism he backed the Mujahedeen?
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

10th November 2023, 10:19 AM	#331
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Hercules56 He seems to be suggesting that very thing. Muslims have been treated bad therefore they are not bound by international law. Only Jews are. I would have told you to read the links I cited before you assume a strawman... but I know you will never do that .... but...
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

10th November 2023, 10:21 AM	#332
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas I would have told you to read the links I cited before you assume a strawman... but I know you will never do that .... but... Have you ever condemned the Arabs for violating international law before and after 1948?
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

10th November 2023, 10:21 AM	#333
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 46,102	I'm convinced. Israel gets to invade Germany and kill 6 million modern day, secular, non-Nazi German civilians s and that's totally fair and makes sense because the Holocaust happened. ("IB4 No that's totally different that's a strawman...")
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

10th November 2023, 10:24 AM	#334
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue So Muslims get to kill Jews in 2023 because Reagan had such a hard on for stopping communism he backed the Mujahedeen? And because Zionists equally as crazy went to their lands from an equally crazy Europe and have been ethnically cleansing them since the 1900s too. Have you read the cited links... I bet you have not... Let me ask you a question... If you enter a room and observe A punching B in the face.... do you then conclude that A is the aggressor?
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

10th November 2023, 10:25 AM	#335
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 55,297	Originally Posted by Leumas The Taliban were created by the USA to fight Russia by Proxy.... read the bloody links I gave you before you assume a strawman. No, they were not. The Taliban were founded in 1994. They didn't even exist until after the Soviet Union collapsed. The Taliban are a creation of Pakistan, not the USA, and they never fought the Russians. You really don't know what you're talking about.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

10th November 2023, 10:25 AM	#336
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487	I need quickly to return to the statement that "Israel was created by International Law" The Jewish State of Israel was not 'created' by the UN. In fact, UNGA merely passed a resolution recommending a partition. The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not possess any authority to recognize or create either a State or a Government. Palestine (State) is recognized by 136 UN member nations.
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487

10th November 2023, 10:25 AM	#337
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue I'm convinced. Israel gets to invade Germany and kill 6 million modern day, secular, non-Nazi German civilians s and that's totally fair and makes sense because the Holocaust happened. ("IB4 No that's totally different that's a strawman...") Yes, Leumas is saying that during WW2, Jewish partisans would have been legally and morally justified in launching massacres upon German villages full of civilians.
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

10th November 2023, 10:26 AM	#338
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by webfusion I need quickly to return to the statement that "Israel was created by International Law" The Jewish State of Israel was not 'created' by the UN. In fact, UNGA merely passed a resolution recommending a partition. The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not possess any authority to recognize or create either a State or a Government. Palestine (State) is recognized by 136 UN member nations. Wrong. If the UN and the international community did not recognize Israel's existence in 1949 then they would not have been a state, just an illegal entity.
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

10th November 2023, 10:29 AM	#339
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue I'm convinced. Israel gets to invade Germany and kill 6 million modern day, secular, non-Nazi German civilians s and that's totally fair and makes sense because the Holocaust happened. ("IB4 No that's totally different that's a strawman...") Ah... but the victims of Nazi Germany get to invade Palestine and take it over and Ethnically Cleanse it and confine the rest in concentration camps and Originally Posted by JoeMorgue ... that's totally fair and makes sense because the Holocaust happened. It is not ok for Zionists to take back THEIR ANCESTRAL lands and houses in Europe from which they were expelled and murdered very recently and within many living Zionists' memory today... but it is ok to take the ancestral lands and houses of the Palestinians???
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. Last edited by Leumas; 10th November 2023 at 10:53 AM.

10th November 2023, 10:29 AM	#340
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 46,102	There is no such thing as a "legit country" because the only thing that makes a country a country is other countries agreeing you are a country. That's how we live in a world where Vatican City is a country and Hong Kong is not and absolutely no objective definition of "Country" you can make where that can make sense. The whole "Israel was created by blah blah blah" is a red herring. Every country in the world declared itself through statements of power and land grabbing except maybe Singapore the only modern nation-state to become independent against its will which is hilarious but a story for another day. This is where Liberal White Guilt about Colonialism breaks down because nobody would get to live anywhere if it was really a problem that needed to be solved. "Oh I don't live in the exact same square foot as our ancestors lived a thousand years ago." Wah ya' ******* babies suck it up.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. Last edited by JoeMorgue; 10th November 2023 at 10:33 AM.

10th November 2023, 10:30 AM	#341
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas Ah... but the victims of Nazi Germany get to invade Palestine and take it over and Ethnically Cleanse it and confine the rest in concentration camps and... There are no concentration camps in Palestine. Your hyperbole is dishonest and absurd.
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

10th November 2023, 10:31 AM	#342
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Yes, Leumas is saying that during WW2, Jewish partisans would have been legally and morally justified in launching massacres upon German villages full of civilians. And you are opposed to that on what grounds exactly??? Haven't the allies done EXACTLY that all over Germany and Japan and Italy and North Africa???
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

10th November 2023, 10:32 AM	#343
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas It is not ok for Zionists to take back THEIR ANCESTRAL lands and houses in Europe from which they were very recently and within many living Zionists today... but it is ok to take the ancestral lands and houses of the Palestinians??? Do you believe it is morally and legally just for Jews to murder Poles, Russians, Germans, Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenians, Serbians, Austrians, Hungarians, than live in homes that used to be theirs?
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

10th November 2023, 10:32 AM	#344
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 46,102	Originally Posted by Leumas It is not ok for Zionists to take back THEIR ANCESTRAL lands and houses in Europe from which they were very recently and within many living Zionists today... but it is ok to take the ancestral lands and houses of the Palestinians??? Again it's not my fault you've swallowed Muslim propaganda about a "Sacred Palestinian Homeland" that nobody gave a crap about until they put Jews on it. If you honestly believe that this is about where some group of people called the "Palestinians" who are 100% indistinguishable in language, race, ethnicity, and culture from the people who live in Muslim mono-states around Israel I don't know what to tell you.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

10th November 2023, 10:32 AM	#345
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487	Originally Posted by Leumas snip crazy Zionists... Let me ask you a question... If you enter a room and observe A punching B in the face.... do you then conclude that A is the aggressor? Not a hypothetical, let's look to the murderous incident Nov 5th in Ventura county, California. https://abcnews.go.com/US/evidence-a...y?id=104777340 Mr. Kessler was struck in the face by a bullhorn (megaphone). He is "B" Mr Alnaji struck him. He is "A" Without video of the actual interaction, what can we conclude?
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487

10th November 2023, 10:32 AM	#346
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas And you are opposed to that on what grounds exactly??? Haven't the allies done EXACTLY that all over Germany and Japan and Italy and North Africa??? I don't believe in murdering civilians. Its terribly immoral and unjust.
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

10th November 2023, 10:33 AM	#347
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by Hercules56 There are no concentration camps in Palestine. Yes there is... your denial is what is Originally Posted by Hercules56 ... hyperbole is dishonest and absurd.
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

10th November 2023, 10:35 AM	#348
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	Originally Posted by Leumas Yes there is... your denial is what is Concentration camps don't have malls, shopping centers, fancy hotels and pools. And a giant beach.
Hercules56 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,535	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

10th November 2023, 10:38 AM	#349
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Wrong. If the UN and the international community did not recognize Israel's existence in 1949 then they would not have been a state, just an illegal entity. In 1949, the UN accepted Israel as a member. On May 11, 1949 the UN General Assembly votes 37 to 12, with 9 abstentions, to admit Israel as a member state, making her the 59th member of the United Nations. You really need to brush up on how the UN operates. (or fails to operate, YMMV)
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487

10th November 2023, 10:38 AM	#350
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by webfusion Not a hypothetical, let's look to the murderous incident .... of ... well.... throughout the last two centuries... Imperialist Colonialists... ***** indigenous peoples in FIVE CONTINENTS... Originally Posted by webfusion** ... Without video of the actual interaction, what can we conclude? But we also have video and 8mm films and news reals and archives and HISTORY GALORE... that none of you would even DARE to read... ever.
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

10th November 2023, 10:43 AM	#351
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 46,102	Okay and? Even if this kind of absurd "X people have been treated bad ergo they get to commit violence NOW" argument wasn't just a complete load of sawdust and manure it applies to the Jews more. You ain't gonna win a "We've historically been treated bad" dick waving contest with the Jews. Again unless you are incapable of looking at anything outside of the context of Liberal Victim Ranking, but if that's not my problem to solve.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

10th November 2023, 10:45 AM	#352
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Concentration camps don't have malls, shopping centers, fancy hotels and pools. And a giant beach. Theresienstadt was cynically described as a "spa town" where elderly German Jews could "retire" in safety. Writers, professors, musicians, and actors gave lectures, concerts, and theater performances. While I'm absolutely certain that Gaza does not rise anywhere into the universe of Concentration Camps, it can be said that the Gaza Strip is in need of some serious re-thinking of what it represents and what the future holds for Gazans. That exact conversation is happening now, thankfully. However, using Nazi terminology is not of any value to the conversation, and leads nowhere.
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487

10th November 2023, 10:48 AM	#353
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487	Originally Posted by Leumas of ... well.... throughout the last two centuries... Imperialist Colonialists... ******* indigenous peoples in FIVE CONTINENTS... But we also have video and 8mm films and news reels and archives and HISTORY GALORE... that none of you would even DARE to read... ever. I asked about a specific and well-known current event. Why are you sidestepping my direct question and going off about two centuries of history? Mr. Kessler was struck, and died. You asked a hypothetical, and I narrowed it down to reality. Aren't you interested in reality? C'mon, we have A and B. Do you conclude that A is the aggressor?
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,487

10th November 2023, 10:51 AM	#354
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 46,102	So to sum up: A member of the IDF kills a Muslim: We talk about that. A member of Hamas kills a Jew: "Let's talk about the evils of Western colonialism and list every bad thing that's ever happened to a Muslim ever."
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. Last edited by JoeMorgue; 10th November 2023 at 10:56 AM.

10th November 2023, 11:01 AM	#355
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue .... This is where Liberal White Guilt about Colonialism breaks down because nobody would get to live anywhere if it was really a problem that needed to be solved.... Except in Israel where INDIANS and Africans and Russians and Ukrainians and Germans and Polish etc. can THUMP the poppycock of the TORAH as a title deed from an imaginary sky daddy of a mythical peripatetic Sumerian pimp. With the "Liberal White Guilt" aiding and abetting and arming and giving annually BILLION$$$ and hoodwinking the crimes going on there.... to alleviate their "Liberal White Guilt"... while decrying the Palestinians for resisting present and clear CRIMES against them as "Liberal White Guilt" pulling.... wow!!!
Leumas Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 8,577	__________________ Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.