Continuation General UK Politics V Suella Strikes Back

[aniri]

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

Because it's Saturday, that's the day most people have off and can get to the march. Most marches and demonstrations are on Saturday.

The 'honour' thing is two minutes silence at 11 o'clock observed wherever you happen to be.

It's tomorrow that the remembrance services and acts take place.

The march was two miles from the cenotaph.

Ok, but why THIS Saturday? After all, 7th October was a Saturday too. I didn't see 300,000 or so people in the streets of London protesting against Hamas atrocities ...

[Andy_Ross]

Why not this Saturday?

Did you notice it was the so called 'patriots' that went to London to protect the Cenotaph that ended up fighting with the police?

[Pixel42]

Originally Posted by aniri

Ok, but why THIS Saturday?

The first was held Saturday 14th October and there's been one every Saturday since. Why would - or should - this Saturday be any different?

[aniri]

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

Why not this Saturday?

I think I said it very clearly. Because this is the day when other people who live in this country honour their heroes (or simply their dead). I believe they deserve some consideration – if not respect.

I personally wouldn’t play loud music (however wonderful I think it is) if I know that my neighbours mourning their late relatives can hear me.

[Gulliver Foyle]

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

Apparently they have decided it was a set up to make them look bad.
The police were waiting in force dressed in riot gear and provoked the trouble.
It's all part of the plan to undermine white Christian Britain and replace everyone with Islamic extremists.

And their saviour is a foreign dark skinned alleged buddhist whose parents came over and stole their parents' jobs.

[Gulliver Foyle]

Originally Posted by aniri

Is there a particular reason why it was so important for the pro-Palestinian protesters to have their protest today (when the British people honour those who died on duty during one of the bloodiest European wars) – as opposed to any other day?

Because, despite the best efforts of various UK governments, Armistice Day is still a day about peace and the futility and evil of war.

[Garrison]

And I see that Sunak is trying to equate a few people allegedly wearing Hamas symbols and the thugs incited by his home secretary to go armed to target peaceful protestors and who instead attacked the police. With a crowd in the hundreds of thousands this went off remarkably smoothly.

[Andy_Ross]

Originally Posted by aniri

I think I said it very clearly. Because this is the day when other people who live in this country honour their heroes (or simply their dead). I believe they deserve some consideration – if not respect.

I personally wouldn’t play loud music (however wonderful I think it is) if I know that my neighbours mourning their late relatives can hear me.

The honouring the dead is two minutes at 11 o'clock

The church services and other acts of remembrance at the cenotaph and war memorials is tomorrow.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by aniri

I think I said it very clearly. Because this is the day when other people who live in this country honour their heroes (or simply their dead). I believe they deserve some consideration – if not respect.

All those people who fought against fascism, to preserve our freedoms, should be honoured by suppressing freedom of speech?

[aniri]

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

The honouring the dead is two minutes at 11 o'clock

Are you saying that we now have 2 minutes to honour important events in the European history and hours to support Palestinians cause??

[Manger Douse]

Originally Posted by aniri

Are you saying that we now have 2 minutes to honour important events in the European history and hours to support Palestinians cause??

It's been pointed out multiple times Rememberance Sunday is on Sunday. You are bad at this

[aniri]

Originally Posted by Mojo

All those people who fought against fascism, to preserve our freedoms, should be honoured by suppressing freedom of speech?

The people who fought against the fashism to preserve our freedom would be able to tell the difference btween good and evil. And, yes, fight against the evil. On the beaches - etc

[The Don]

Originally Posted by aniri

The people who fought against the fashism to preserve our freedom would be able to tell the difference btween good and evil. And, yes, fight against the evil. On the beaches - etc

Of course the people for whom armistice commemorations were started weren't fighting Fascists.

[jimbob]

Back to the previous Suella Braverman poison


Personal story explaining how the writer ended up sleeping rough.

https://thelead.uk/dear-suella-my-ho...festyle-choice

It was less bad than the alternatives

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by catsmate

Were they? I think even the average Sun reader isn't actually that stupid.
Now while the average Sun reader is stupid even they should be able to do some basic arithmetic.

HL Mencken famously said, "No one in this world, so far as I know ... has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."

The average SUN reader - without wishing to sound snobbish - would not have done the maths. He or she would have just taken the SUN at its word, that here's this dear wrinkly old guy being dissed whilst selling poppies by young ignorant Muslims who don't know anything about British history.

Needless to say, police looked into the 'incident' and could find no evidence that the beret-wearing 78-year-old was 'kicked and punched'.

But the SUN knew what it was doing.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by zooterkin

So you were ranting about something without giving the context but expecting us to know what you were on about? And it's not clear that the Sun implied he was a WWII veteran (which would have been stupid), rather than that being your error, since the article has mysteriously disappeared?

ETA: It hasn't disappeared, here it is - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/246466...ne-protesters/

Vixen, could you point out where it suggests he was a WWII veteran? It gives his age, and says he served in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.

No, that is not the article. I said the article had the headline "PROTECT OUR VETERANS".


Directly to do with the 78-year-old in his beret.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by jimbob

I'm not following.

You made an irrelevant comment about the Sun implying that he was a WWII veteran, which was utterly ridiculous.




Nobody was implying that.


-------------



I think it is pretty obvious that if the guy is collecting for the British Legion wearing a maroon beret, he's trying to convey the impression that he had been a para. As he hadn't, he is a Walt.

Obvious to you (now) and me (straight away) but at the time the distinct message being conveyed was 'this poor war hero being dissed whilst trying to sell poppies'.

What better image than some old guy who could be anybody's grandfather being treated like this after all he did in the war.

[Andy_Ross]

Originally Posted by aniri

Are you saying that we now have 2 minutes to honour important events in the European history and hours to support Palestinians cause??

Onve again. In the UK it's tradition that on the 11th day of the 11th month at 11 o'clock there is two minutes silence.

Then, on the closest Sunday there are services of remembrance, parades and laying of wreaths at war memorials and other acts of remembrance.

[Andy_Ross]

Apparently Suella was vindicated, there were hundreds of violent protestors and dozens of arrests and attacks on the police.

Just not by the people she said would do it.

Also the Met have become Khans enforcers, they no longer uphold the law but protect the invaders and Islamists that want to overthrow our society and have attacked and oppressed the true patriots. and Sir Mark Rowley must resign.

The gammon posters and GBNews etc are furious.

[Vixen]

Darren Grimes of GB News:

"Veteran Jim Henderson, 78, has described being kicked and punched in his back and side as he fought to get the money he’d collected for the Poppy Appeal out of Edinburgh’s Waverley Station. Station staff rescued him. A damn disgrace, these people now think they’re above the law."

https://x.com/darrengrimes_/status/1...996397846?s=20


No, of course the media were being benign about the Veteran poppy seller.


@BennyBoy246

·
Nov 7
@SkyNewsBreak

Quote:

correct me if I'm wrong but I don't appear to have seen ANY TV coverage of the attack on poppy seller and veteran Para Jim Henderson in Edinburgh railway station by Palestine terrorist supporters? Lest We Forget #IsraelPalestineWar #RemembranceDay #PoppyAppeal

https://x.com/BennyBoy246/status/172...771923017?s=20


@B7frankH

·
Nov 7

Quote:

#BREAKING 78 Year Old British War Veteran selling poppies for Rememberance Day PUNCHED and KICKED by Palestinian activists. Jim Henderson was attacked by a mob of Palestinian protesters at Edinburgh train station where he was selling poppies. He tried to escape, but was…
Show more

https://x.com/B7frankH/status/1721842783516864572?s=20

British Transport Police have no evidence via CCTV of this person having been assaulted.

I wonder what impression the national media was trying to convey without even verifying this man's claims.

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Obvious to you (now) and me (straight away) but at the time the distinct message being conveyed was 'this poor war hero being dissed whilst trying to sell poppies'.

What better image than some old guy who could be anybody's grandfather being treated like this after all he did in the war.

You claimed they were presenting him as a veteran of the second world war. Present evidence of that.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

You claimed they were presenting him as a veteran of the second world war. Present evidence of that.

It is my opinion. Your approval of my opinion is not a requirement.

If you disagree with my opinion you are welcome to state why. The fact the SUN appears to have removed their PROTECT OUR VETERANS should tell you all you need to know.

Are you claiming that the SUN is talking about ALL ex-defence forces personnel as a couple of posters have claimed?

If that is what you want to believe, that is your prerogative.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by Vixen

It is my opinion. Your approval of my opinion is not a requirement.

If you disagree with my opinion you are welcome to state why. The fact the SUN appears to have removed their PROTECT OUR VETERANS should tell you all you need to know.

Are you claiming that the SUN is talking about ALL ex-defence forces personnel as a couple of posters have claimed?

If that is what you want to believe, that is your prerogative.

You really don't get this, do you?

You're the one making the claim, that the Sun was somehow presenting a 78-year-old as a WWII veteran, so you need to support that claim, or else admit you were mistaken.

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by Vixen

It is my opinion. Your approval of my opinion is not a requirement.

If you disagree with my opinion you are welcome to state why. The fact the SUN appears to have removed their PROTECT OUR VETERANS should tell you all you need to know.

Are you claiming that the SUN is talking about ALL ex-defence forces personnel as a couple of posters have claimed?

If that is what you want to believe, that is your prerogative.

You can't be serious.

The sun used the alleged attack on an elderly veteran and used the headline protect our veterans. You claimed they were presenting him as a wwii vet. Support your claim.

[aniri]

Originally Posted by Manger Douse

It's been pointed out multiple times Rememberance Sunday is on Sunday. You are bad at this

from Wikipedia:

"Remembrance Day is observed on 11 November to recall the end of First World War hostilities."

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by aniri

from Wikipedia:

"Remembrance Day is observed on 11 November to recall the end of First World War hostilities."

And the marking of Armistice Day with a 2-minute silence wasn't really a big thing in the UK for the vast majority of my life. Remembrance Day was moved to Remembrance Sunday in 1939 in the UK (to not interfere with war production according to Wikipedia). The marking of Armistice Day was only something that happened as a significant event (in my experience) at the Centenary and afterwards.

Regardless of that. A regular Saturday protest over a mile from the Cenotaph at its closest point and then nowhere near 11am was not remotely inappropriate not disrespectful.

Marching past the Cenotaph at 11am on Remembrance Sunday shouting would have been disrespectful. And probably likely to cause public order problems. But that was never going to happen.

[Pixel42]

Originally Posted by aniri

from Wikipedia:

"Remembrance Day is observed on 11 November to recall the end of First World War hostilities."

I take it you're going to go down to the Cenataph at 11 am this morning and tell everyone they should have been there yesterday "because wikipedia says so"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Sunday

Quote:

Remembrance Sunday is held in the United Kingdom as a day to commemorate the contribution of British and Commonwealth military and civilian servicemen and women in the two World Wars and later conflicts.[1] It is held on the second Sunday in November (the Sunday nearest to 11 November, Armistice Day,[2] the anniversary of the end of hostilities in World War I in 1918)

ETA: the first wiki quote isn't wrong, it's true for lots of countries, it's just that the UK isn't one of them - well, except in the years 11th November happens to be a Sunday.

[Manger Douse]

Originally Posted by aniri

from Wikipedia:

"Remembrance Day is observed on 11 November to recall the end of First World War hostilities."

From Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Sunday

[Garrison]

A BBC article on how they tackled rough sleeping in my neck of the woods, spoiler it didn't involve confiscating tents:

How area once dubbed 'tent city' cut rough sleeping

The comments from the local Tory candidate are interesting.

Quote:

Johnny Luk, who is the Conservative parliamentary candidate for Milton Keynes Central, said at a council level there was cross-party support for the work being done to tackle rough sleeping locally.

However, he said government funding had been "pivotal" in enabling progress, with more than £10m given to the council to address homelessness since 2019.

Mr Luk said he would not describe sleeping on the streets as a "lifestyle choice".

So its almost like they answer is putting money and resources into tackling the issue.

[The Don]

Sad to see that the right wing press is leading with "Hamas supporters" causing the problem as opposed to the rest of the press which rightly points out that it was primarily right wingers incited by the Home Secretary and right wing press.

[Andy_Ross]

Originally Posted by aniri

from Wikipedia:

"Remembrance Day is observed on 11 November to recall the end of First World War hostilities."

With two minutes silence at 11 o'clock.

All the parades, church services and other acts of remembrance are on the closest Sunday.
This year it's today, the 12th

[Andy_Ross]

Grant Shapps on BBC this morning, saying when Britain bombed Dresden in WW2 we killed 35,000 civilians. He goes on to make it clear the UK govt fully backs what Israel is doing

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Garrison

A BBC article on how they tackled rough sleeping in my neck of the woods, spoiler it didn't involve confiscating tents:

How area once dubbed 'tent city' cut rough sleeping

The comments from the local Tory candidate are interesting.



So its almost like they answer is putting money and resources into tackling the issue.

Indeed. The author quoted here made the lifestyle choice at 17 to immediately leave the new foster care and sleep rough as she preferred that to getting sexually assaulted in the house she'd been placed in.

Yes there might be some snark in my previous paragraph.

Originally Posted by jimbob

Back to the previous Suella Braverman poison


Personal story explaining how the writer ended up sleeping rough.

https://thelead.uk/dear-suella-my-ho...festyle-choice

It was less bad than the alternatives

[Nessie]

What happened yesterday was a storm in a teacup. There were minor disturbances, a few police and likely protestors got injured, a lot of people got angry and scared and social media is full of people grossly exaggerating events for political and nefarious purposes.

The majority of those who were involved in the disturbances also go to football matches. They may appear fierce, but they are good at running away and are only brave in a crowd.

[Nessie]

Originally Posted by Garrison

A BBC article on how they tackled rough sleeping in my neck of the woods, spoiler it didn't involve confiscating tents:

How area once dubbed 'tent city' cut rough sleeping

The comments from the local Tory candidate are interesting.



So its almost like they answer is putting money and resources into tackling the issue.

I liked the quote that tents are the symptom, not the cause. Braverman is a typical Tory, treating the symptom, not the cause, to avoid spending some money now, ignoring the long term costs. Short-termism plagues many political policy decisions.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

You claimed they were presenting him as a veteran of the second world war. Present evidence of that.

Originally Posted by Vixen

It is my opinion.

What evidence caused you to form this opinion?

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Obvious to you (now) and me (straight away) but at the time the distinct message being conveyed was 'this poor war hero being dissed whilst trying to sell poppies'.

What better image than some old guy who could be anybody's grandfather being treated like this after all he did in the war.

No, because I am not an idiot. It was so obvious that the Sun wouldn't have tried to imply that.

Please don't project your possible misunderstanding onto me.

[Andy_Ross]

GB News official verdict from Darren Grimes on the Saturday At 5 news show. is that

"Suella Braverman must have had her crystal ball polished to perfection because she predicted the chaos we've seen unfold"

Apparently she warned us about two-tier policing and the pro-Palestine protests taking place on Armistice Day.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

With two minutes silence at 11 o'clock.

All the parades, church services and other acts of remembrance are on the closest Sunday.
This year it's today, the 12th

There are some other acts of remembrance; most places have a two minute silence on the 11th, if it's not a Sunday, and a lot of workplaces have one on the nearest working day (there was one on Friday at my college), and I think most football matches and similar events will have one on the nearest day. But, as you say, Remembrance Sunday is the day when the bulk of the observance happens.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by aniri

)

Yeah, right. It's like celebrating, let's say, Easter on Christmas day. Both are Christian holidays after all ...))

What is this supposed to mean?