[Continuation] General UK Politics V Suella Strikes Back - Page 6

catsmate · 12th November 2023, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by aniri

Are you saying that we now have 2 minutes to honour important events in the European history and hours to support Palestinians cause??

No, no-one is saying that. You're making stuff up.

Mojo · 12th November 2023, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

No, that is not the article. I said the article had the headline "PROTECT OUR VETERANS".

Which you misunderstood as meaning "PROTECT OUR WWII VETERANS".

Vixen · 12th November 2023, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

What evidence caused you to form this opinion?

I gave my reasoning (please refer back).

As you know, I did not agree with the timing of the Pro-Palestinian March (see earlier reasoning). However, that did not mean that I approved of the incitement by Suella Braverman and the tabloids, together with the hypocrisy of having encouraged angry fightback then pretended to be outraged by the violence they themselves had stirred up. Surprise, surprise, up popped Irishman 'Tommy Robinson', said to have become a millionaire via his lucrative far right enterprises to provide the required 'Eng-er-land' hooligans, only to promptly piss off in a taxi when informed that riot police were on their way. <fx Brummie accent> Yes mate. Then there is the despicable false reasoning of Prime Minister Rish! Sunk drawing a disproportionate stated conclusion that the violence on both sides were of the same mettle, as though 126 arrested out of 800,000 was comparable with 92 out of a few hundred.

But no, you are right, Mojo. I am wrong.

If some young insolent pup is going to stick out their foot and trip up a gallant war hero in a purple beret whilst he is selling poppies...swinging on the gate and eating cheese and onion crisps...whilst our war hero was landing with his parachute at Arnhem in Operation Market Garden or Overlord at Normandy in 1944...<fx pause to go purple with rage> ...I say, OI NO-OWWWW!!! Have some respect! PROTECT OUR VETERANS <fx burst blood vessels collapses in apoplexy>.

Bloody bastards.

Mojo · 12th November 2023, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

I gave my reasoning (please refer back).

I did. Your reasoning was based on the false premise that the word "veteran" exclusively refers to those who fought in WWII.

Quote:

As you know, I did not agree with the timing of the Pro-Palestinian March (see earlier reasoning). However, that did not mean that I approved of the incitement by Suella Braverman and the tabloids, together with the hypocrisy of having encouraged angry fightback then pretended to be outraged by the violence they themselves had stirred up. Surprise, surprise, up popped Irishman 'Tommy Robinson', said to have become a millionaire via his lucrative far right enterprises to provide the required 'Eng-er-land' hooligans, only to promptly piss off in a taxi when informed that riot police were on their way. <fx Brummie accent> Yes mate. Then there is the despicable false reasoning of Prime Minister Rish! Sunk drawing a disproportionate stated conclusion that the violence on both sides were of the same mettle, as though 126 arrested out of 800,000 was comparable with 92 out of a few hundred.

None of that explains why you thought the Sun was portraying the poppy seller as a WWII veteran.

Quote:

But no, you are right, Mojo. I am wrong.

If some young insolent pup is going to stick out their foot and trip up a gallant war hero in a purple beret whilst he is selling poppies...swinging on the gate and eating crisps...whilst our war here was landing with his parachute at Arnhem in Operation Market Garden or Overlord at Normandy in 1944...<fx pause to go purple with rage> ...I say, OI NO-OWWWW!!! Have some respect! PROTECT OUR VETERANS <fx burst blood vessels collapses in apoplexy>.

Did the Sun story say that he had parachuted into Arnhem or was involved in Operation Market Garden or Operation Overlord?

If the Sun story actually said he was a WWII veteran, why didn't you just say so instead of trying to justify your misunderstanding by claiming that "veteran" is synonymous with "WWII veteran"?

Vixen · 12th November 2023, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

I did. Your reasoning was based on the false premise that the word "veteran" exclusively refers to those who fought in WWII.

None of that explains why you thought the Sun was portraying the poppy seller as a WWII veteran.

Did the Sun story say that he had parachuted into Arnhem or was involved in Operation Market Garden or Operation Overlord?

If the Sun story actually said he was a WWII veteran, why didn't you just say so instead of trying to justify your misunderstanding by claiming that "veteran" is synonymous with "WWII veteran"?

Rubbish. Darat called me a moron and zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering' because they either wittingly or unwittingly, failed to understand the context of my post was the SUN newspaper article, frothing at the mouth and demanding protection for this 78-year-old beret-wearing poppy seller. Why do you think it made so much about his OLD AGE and assumed frailty, pictured in his poxy beret and army surplus gear, other than to make its readers assume this old guy was an elite war hero?

The SUN must have known all along that the Parachute Regiment/Signallers 78-year-old veteran's story was not verified as there was a journalist with him at the time and this accredited journalist stated clearly that there was no attack whilst he was with him. You can read Jim Orr's account here:

https://x.com/MrJimOrr/status/1722285996778443003?s=20

Quote:

"Jim Orr
@MrJimOrr
·
Nov 8
A short thread on Jim Henderson, the veteran who was reportedly assaulted by anti-war/Pro-Palestine protesters at Waverley station on Saturday 4th November. In the photo below, Jim (purple beret) can be seen standing next to me (black baseball cap with a bright red brim). 1/8

Post
See new posts
Conversation
Jim Orr
@MrJimOrr

Jim Orr
@MrJimOrr
I was right there while the march arrived and stayed till Mr Henderson and his colleagues packed up and left which I’d guess was about 15 minutes later. There was no trouble. Some protesters held a huge Free Palestine banner in front of Mr Henderson’s table. 2/8

<snip>

According to STV, Mr Henderson later reported that he had been assaulted as he was packing up to leave. https://news.stv.tv/east-central/vet...burgh-waverley 5/8

<snip>

Jim Orr
@MrJimOrr
·
Nov 8
But that’s not consistent with the video (which is freely available to anyone) I posted at the time. In it, the group can clearly be seen packing up with lots of space. The crowd is clearly well behaved and focussed only on the Gaza bombing protest. 6/8

So carry on pretending the SUN were referring to all ex-armed forces personnel.

I will continue to stand by my opinion.

End of.

jeremyp · 12th November 2023, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Rubbish. Darat called me a moron and zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering' because they either wittingly or unwittingly, failed to understand the context of my post was the SUN newspaper article, frothing at the mouth and demanding protection for this 78-year-old beret-wearing poppy seller. Why do you think it made so much about his OLD AGE and assumed frailty, pictured in his poxy beret and army surplus gear, other than to make its readers assume this old guy was an elite war hero?

The SUN must have known all along that the Parachute Regiment/Signallers 78-year-old veteran's story was not verified as there was a journalist with him at the time and this accredited journalist stated clearly that there was no attack whilst he was with him. You can read Jim Orr's account here:

https://x.com/MrJimOrr/status/1722285996778443003?s=20

So carry on pretending the SUN were referring to all ex-armed forces personnel.

I will continue to stand by my opinion.

End of.

It's not sexist. Anybody can witter.

zooterkin · 12th November 2023, 07:06 AM

Do stop lying, Vixen.

Originally Posted by Vixen

Rubbish. Darat called me a moron

No, he didn't.

Quote:

and zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering'

No, it isn't.

Quote:

because they either wittingly or unwittingly, failed to understand the context of my post was the SUN newspaper article, frothing at the mouth and demanding protection for this 78-year-old beret-wearing poppy seller. Why do you think it made so much about his OLD AGE and assumed frailty, pictured in his poxy beret and army surplus gear, other than to make its readers assume this old guy was an elite war hero?

Maybe simply because 78 is actually quite old? I can't explain why you should have leapt to the conclusion he was meant to be an elite war hero (where did that come from?).

Quote:

The SUN must have known all along that the Parachute Regiment/Signallers 78-year-old veteran's story was not verified as there was a journalist with him at the time and this accredited journalist stated clearly that there was no attack whilst he was with him.

Whether the report of an attack was accurate has no bearing on your assertion that a veteran must have been in WWII.

Mojo · 12th November 2023, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Rubbish. Darat called me a moron...

He didn't.

Quote:

...and zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering'...

Porkie. It isn't, and this has already been pointed out to you.

Quote:

...because they either wittingly or unwittingly, failed to understand the context of my post was the SUN newspaper article, frothing at the mouth and demanding protection for this 78-year-old beret-wearing poppy seller. Why do you think it made so much about his OLD AGE and assumed frailty, pictured in his poxy beret and army surplus gear, other than to make its readers assume this old guy was an elite war hero?

The SUN must have known all along that the Parachute Regiment/Signallers 78-year-old veteran's story was not verified as there was a journalist with him at the time and this accredited journalist stated clearly that there was no attack whilst he was with him. You can read Jim Orr's account here:

https://x.com/MrJimOrr/status/1722285996778443003?s=20

So carry on pretending the SUN were referring to all ex-armed forces personnel.

I will continue to stand by my opinion.

End of.

Did the Sun story say he was a WWII veteran? Nothing you have posted here supports that.

Vixen · 12th November 2023, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Do stop lying, Vixen.

No, he didn't.

No, it isn't.

Maybe simply because 78 is actually quite old? I can't explain why you should have leapt to the conclusion he was meant to be an elite war hero (where did that come from?).

Whether the report of an attack was accurate has no bearing on your assertion that a veteran must have been in WWII.

The term 'Veteran' is not a protected title (such as 'Police Officer', for example). So, therefore you DO have to look at context. I explained my reference to context earlier so shan't repeat it.

GlennB · 12th November 2023, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Rubbish. Darat called me a moron ...

Now, if only there were a way to search the thread to check on this ... hmm ...

Mojo · 12th November 2023, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

The term 'Veteran' is not a protected title (such as 'Police Officer', for example).

Indeed, so its use is not restricted to WWII veterans.

Quote:

So, therefore you DO have to look at context. I explained my reference to context earlier so shan't repeat it.

Did the context include a statement that he was a WWII veteran?

MarkCorrigan · 12th November 2023, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

The term 'Veteran' is not a protected title (such as 'Police Officer', for example). So, therefore you DO have to look at context. I explained my reference to context earlier so shan't repeat it.

He is a veteran. Just not a world war 2 veteran.

ETA: Provide evidence of darat calling you a moron and evidence of wittering being sexist, or indeed genderen at all. Hint, he didn't and it isn't, you're just lying to try to shame the people pointing out your errors again.

Andy_Ross · 12th November 2023, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

The term 'Veteran' is not a protected title (such as 'Police Officer', for example). So, therefore you DO have to look at context. I explained my reference to context earlier so shan't repeat it.

The context being anyone that has served in H.M. Forces.

I think we've flogged this enough now.

Time to let it go folks.

Vixen · 12th November 2023, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Indeed, so its use is not restricted to WWII veterans.

Did the context include a statement that he was a WWII veteran?

For crying out loud, the whole story was fake. Without the freaking real-life strawman in his Parachute Regiment* outfit telling fibs about being kicked and punched, THERE WAS NO STORY. It was just an excuse to wind up the masses.

Quote:

Prime minister Rishi Sunak even intervened. He told the Sun: “I am appalled that some poppy sellers – many veterans who are the heart of our collective remembrance each year – have experienced intimidation and abuses when volunteering at train stations.”

The British Transport Police criticised “misleading” information in the media, and said there was no evidence of poppy sellers being targeted.

The Royal British Legion said there was no shortage of poppy sellers, with numbers up on last year, and poppy sales at all mainline stations. It said there had been no increase in reports about sellers being intimidated, abused or punched, and no volunteer had been asked by the charity to wear a body camera for their protection.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-poppy-sellers

So he could just as well identify as a cat as a para. But carry on. 'The SUN was right'.

*If this guy really was a Signaller who did periodical stints with the Parachute Regiment, claiming to have served in 'the troubles' in Northern Ireland, then he was likely involved the 1971 Ballymurphy massacre of unarmed civilian demonstrators. Yes, comparisons are odious, and there is no doubt those who served in NI were immensely courageous in the face of hidden dangers, but it is arguable that this service was of the same heroic magnitude as those who died in the muddy trenches of the Somme, alone and far away from home.

Mojo · 12th November 2023, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

*If this guy really was a Signaller who did periodical stints with the Parachute Regiment, claiming to have served in 'the troubles' in Northern Ireland, then he was likely involved the 1971 Ballymurphy massacre of unarmed civilian demonstrators. Yes, comparisons are odious, and there is no doubt those who served in NI were immensely courageous in the face of hidden dangers, but it is arguable that this service was of the same heroic magnitude as those who died in the muddy trenches of the Somme, alone and far away from home.

They wouldn't fall within your definition of "veteran" either.

Andy_Ross · 12th November 2023, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

*If this guy really was a Signaller who did periodical stints with the Parachute Regiment, claiming to have served in 'the troubles' in Northern Ireland, then he was likely involved the 1971 Ballymurphy massacre of unarmed civilian demonstrators. Yes, comparisons are odious, and there is no doubt those who served in NI were immensely courageous in the face of hidden dangers, but it is arguable that this service was of the same heroic magnitude as those who died in the muddy trenches of the Somme, alone and far away from home.

What bollocks you spout.

He would have been attached to the Air Assault Brigade, he was not part of the Parachute Regiment and wouldn't have served anywhere with them.

Nessie · 12th November 2023, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

GB News official verdict from Darren Grimes on the Saturday At 5 news show. is that

"Suella Braverman must have had her crystal ball polished to perfection because she predicted the chaos we've seen unfold"

Apparently she warned us about two-tier policing and the pro-Palestine protests taking place on Armistice Day.

There was no chaos. There were some minor disturbances, a small amount of arrests, a few police were injured and there was a lot of shouting. That is not chaos.

Carrot Flower King · 12th November 2023, 10:37 AM

Never mind Wittering, where are Unman and Zigo?

(As up to date with my cultural references as ever...)

Garrison · 12th November 2023, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Nessie

There was no chaos. There were some minor disturbances, a small amount of arrests, a few police were injured and there was a lot of shouting. That is not chaos.

If that constituted chaos and serious disorder then every football match in the UK should played in an empty stadium because the risk there dwarfs that at the march.

jimbob · 12th November 2023, 10:44 AM

Good video by Sangita Myska on LBC

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Absolutely evisceration of Braverman

Vixen · 12th November 2023, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

<snip invective>

He would have been attached to the Air Assault Brigade, he was not part of the Parachute Regiment and wouldn't have served anywhere with them.

Citation? The 16 unit Air Assault Brigade was formed in 1999, when Henderson would have been 53.

He claims to have served in Northern Ireland 'during the troubles' and this was from 1969 - 1998. If he had any connection to the Parachute Regiment as he claims, then this was the regiment involved in the Ballymurphy massacre in 1971. He would have been 25-ish.

Vixen · 12th November 2023, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Nessie

There was no chaos. There were some minor disturbances, a small amount of arrests, a few police were injured and there was a lot of shouting. That is not chaos.

It was well-policed. However, I have to disagree somewhat that there 'were some minor disturbances'. The breach past the police by demonstrators to get to the Cenotaph was a serious one IMV. The police were supposed to have prevented this, so something seriously went wrong, in that respect. Training gap there.

Garrison · 12th November 2023, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

It was well-policed. However, I have to disagree somewhat that there 'were some minor disturbances'. The breach past the police by demonstrators to get to the Cenotaph was a serious one IMV. The police were supposed to have prevented this, so something seriously went wrong, in that respect. Training gap there.

You mean the breach by the EDL thugs who were only there because the Home Secretary whipped them up? They had nothing to do with the march which went nowhere near the Cenotaph.

junkshop · 12th November 2023, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

... zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering' ...

What are you prattling on about?

Your blithering about some imagined gender-specific aspect to the word 'wittering' is just ignorant blather.

Andy_Ross · 12th November 2023, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Citation? The 16 unit Air Assault Brigade was formed in 1999, when Henderson would have been 53.

He claims to have served in Northern Ireland 'during the troubles' and this was from 1969 - 1998. If he had any connection to the Parachute Regiment as he claims, then this was the regiment involved in the Ballymurphy massacre in 1971. He would have been 25-ish.

Air Assault Brigades were first formed in WW2.
Signals units have been attached to air assault brigades since they were formed.

Obviously by his age he served in the 1970s.
There were signals units attached to Air Assault Brigades in the 1970s.
He was obviously not part of a unit formed in 1999.

One regimental battalion of the Parachute regiment served in Northern Ireland.

There was never an Air Assault Brigade deployed in Northern Ireland.

If he served in Northern Ireland it was not with the parachute regiment, it would have been as part of a separate signals unit.

GlennB · 12th November 2023, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by junkshop

What are you prattling on about?

Your blithering about some imagined gender-specific aspect to the word 'wittering' is just ignorant blather.

And Darat didn't call her a moron. The only times that word occurs in this thread is in her complaint and denials by others.

eta: And it hasn't been shunted to AAH either.

Andy_Ross · 12th November 2023, 01:04 PM

Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid.

GlennB · 12th November 2023, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid.

Can someone slip a funnelweb spider in his sleeping bag, please?

Gulliver Foyle · 12th November 2023, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

Grant Shapps on BBC this morning, saying when Britain bombed Dresden in WW2 we killed 35,000 civilians. He goes on to make it clear the UK govt fully backs what Israel is doing

Does anybody pay attention to what Corinne Stockheath says?

Orphia Nay · 12th November 2023, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid.

Ugh. I didn't think I could want to watch that program any less than I already do, but here we are.

Gulliver Foyle · 12th November 2023, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid.

Why? Given Russia's no longer paying, he'd have done it for tuppence ha'penny.

zooterkin · 12th November 2023, 03:36 PM

Does this mean he can re-open his Coutts account?

junkshop · 12th November 2023, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid.

Come on Australia's notoriously deadly fauna, this is your chance to shine!

P.J. Denyer · 12th November 2023, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid.

Like Australia didn't have enough poisonous invertebrates already.

P.J. Denyer · 12th November 2023, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

Ugh. I didn't think I could want to watch that program any less than I already do, but here we are.

It'll be the first time that the kangaroo anus has been more appealing than what's eating it.

junkshop · 12th November 2023, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

It'll be the first time that the kangaroo anus has been more appealing than what's eating it.

That's debatable. The 'first time' bit, I mean.

jeremyp · 12th November 2023, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

Like Australia didn't have enough poisonous invertebrates already.

You win today’s internet.

The Don · 12th November 2023, 11:44 PM

Looks like the Conservatives are once again reverting to type by proposing to cut benefits for people who cannot work due to ill health

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67385385

There's already been an unprecedented rise in the number of people in poverty, why not give it an extra push, take billions from those who can afford it least, hamstring the economy, and give the very richest some unneeded tax breaks ?

Nessie · 13th November 2023, 01:50 AM

Bye!!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67370421

Good riddance to the nasty witch.

catsmate · 13th November 2023, 02:20 AM

Will Cleverly be any better?

12th November 2023, 05:23 AM	#201
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 29,785	Originally Posted by aniri Are you saying that we now have 2 minutes to honour important events in the European history and hours to support Palestinians cause?? No, no-one is saying that. You're making stuff up.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

12th November 2023, 06:14 AM	#202
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 38,056	Originally Posted by Vixen No, that is not the article. I said the article had the headline "PROTECT OUR VETERANS". Which you misunderstood as meaning "PROTECT OUR WWII VETERANS".
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

12th November 2023, 06:21 AM	#203
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 34,483	Originally Posted by Mojo What evidence caused you to form this opinion? I gave my reasoning (please refer back). As you know, I did not agree with the timing of the Pro-Palestinian March (see earlier reasoning). However, that did not mean that I approved of the incitement by Suella Braverman and the tabloids, together with the hypocrisy of having encouraged angry fightback then pretended to be outraged by the violence they themselves had stirred up. Surprise, surprise, up popped Irishman 'Tommy Robinson', said to have become a millionaire via his lucrative far right enterprises to provide the required 'Eng-er-land' hooligans, only to promptly piss off in a taxi when informed that riot police were on their way. <fx Brummie accent> Yes mate. Then there is the despicable false reasoning of Prime Minister Rish! Sunk drawing a disproportionate stated conclusion that the violence on both sides were of the same mettle, as though 126 arrested out of 800,000 was comparable with 92 out of a few hundred. But no, you are right, Mojo. I am wrong. If some young insolent pup is going to stick out their foot and trip up a gallant war hero in a purple beret whilst he is selling poppies...swinging on the gate and eating cheese and onion crisps...whilst our war hero was landing with his parachute at Arnhem in Operation Market Garden or Overlord at Normandy in 1944...<fx pause to go purple with rage> ...I say, OI NO-OWWWW!!! Have some respect! PROTECT OUR VETERANS <fx burst blood vessels collapses in apoplexy>. Bloody bastards.
	__________________ who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig Last edited by Vixen; 12th November 2023 at 06:27 AM.

12th November 2023, 06:34 AM	#204
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 38,056	Originally Posted by Vixen I gave my reasoning (please refer back). I did. Your reasoning was based on the false premise that the word "veteran" exclusively refers to those who fought in WWII. Quote: As you know, I did not agree with the timing of the Pro-Palestinian March (see earlier reasoning). However, that did not mean that I approved of the incitement by Suella Braverman and the tabloids, together with the hypocrisy of having encouraged angry fightback then pretended to be outraged by the violence they themselves had stirred up. Surprise, surprise, up popped Irishman 'Tommy Robinson', said to have become a millionaire via his lucrative far right enterprises to provide the required 'Eng-er-land' hooligans, only to promptly piss off in a taxi when informed that riot police were on their way. <fx Brummie accent> Yes mate. Then there is the despicable false reasoning of Prime Minister Rish! Sunk drawing a disproportionate stated conclusion that the violence on both sides were of the same mettle, as though 126 arrested out of 800,000 was comparable with 92 out of a few hundred. None of that explains why you thought the Sun was portraying the poppy seller as a WWII veteran. Quote: But no, you are right, Mojo. I am wrong. If some young insolent pup is going to stick out their foot and trip up a gallant war hero in a purple beret whilst he is selling poppies...swinging on the gate and eating crisps...whilst our war here was landing with his parachute at Arnhem in Operation Market Garden or Overlord at Normandy in 1944...<fx pause to go purple with rage> ...I say, OI NO-OWWWW!!! Have some respect! PROTECT OUR VETERANS <fx burst blood vessels collapses in apoplexy>. Did the Sun story say that he had parachuted into Arnhem or was involved in Operation Market Garden or Operation Overlord? If the Sun story actually said he was a WWII veteran, why didn't you just say so instead of trying to justify your misunderstanding by claiming that "veteran" is synonymous with "WWII veteran"?
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky Last edited by Mojo; 12th November 2023 at 06:38 AM. Reason: Messed up quote tags

12th November 2023, 06:53 AM	#205
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 34,483	Originally Posted by Mojo I did. Your reasoning was based on the false premise that the word "veteran" exclusively refers to those who fought in WWII. None of that explains why you thought the Sun was portraying the poppy seller as a WWII veteran. Did the Sun story say that he had parachuted into Arnhem or was involved in Operation Market Garden or Operation Overlord? If the Sun story actually said he was a WWII veteran, why didn't you just say so instead of trying to justify your misunderstanding by claiming that "veteran" is synonymous with "WWII veteran"? Rubbish. Darat called me a moron and zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering' because they either wittingly or unwittingly, failed to understand the context of my post was the SUN newspaper article, frothing at the mouth and demanding protection for this 78-year-old beret-wearing poppy seller. Why do you think it made so much about his OLD AGE and assumed frailty, pictured in his poxy beret and army surplus gear, other than to make its readers assume this old guy was an elite war hero? The SUN must have known all along that the Parachute Regiment/Signallers 78-year-old veteran's story was not verified as there was a journalist with him at the time and this accredited journalist stated clearly that there was no attack whilst he was with him. You can read Jim Orr's account here: https://x.com/MrJimOrr/status/1722285996778443003?s=20 Quote: "Jim Orr @MrJimOrr · Nov 8 A short thread on Jim Henderson, the veteran who was reportedly assaulted by anti-war/Pro-Palestine protesters at Waverley station on Saturday 4th November. In the photo below, Jim (purple beret) can be seen standing next to me (black baseball cap with a bright red brim). 1/8 Post See new posts Conversation Jim Orr @MrJimOrr Jim Orr @MrJimOrr I was right there while the march arrived and stayed till Mr Henderson and his colleagues packed up and left which I’d guess was about 15 minutes later. There was no trouble. Some protesters held a huge Free Palestine banner in front of Mr Henderson’s table. 2/8 <snip> According to STV, Mr Henderson later reported that he had been assaulted as he was packing up to leave. https://news.stv.tv/east-central/vet...burgh-waverley 5/8 <snip> Jim Orr @MrJimOrr · Nov 8 But that’s not consistent with the video (which is freely available to anyone) I posted at the time. In it, the group can clearly be seen packing up with lots of space. The crowd is clearly well behaved and focussed only on the Gaza bombing protest. 6/8 So carry on pretending the SUN were referring to all ex-armed forces personnel. I will continue to stand by my opinion. End of.
	__________________ who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig

12th November 2023, 07:06 AM	#206
jeremyp Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 3,824	Originally Posted by Vixen Rubbish. Darat called me a moron and zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering' because they either wittingly or unwittingly, failed to understand the context of my post was the SUN newspaper article, frothing at the mouth and demanding protection for this 78-year-old beret-wearing poppy seller. Why do you think it made so much about his OLD AGE and assumed frailty, pictured in his poxy beret and army surplus gear, other than to make its readers assume this old guy was an elite war hero? The SUN must have known all along that the Parachute Regiment/Signallers 78-year-old veteran's story was not verified as there was a journalist with him at the time and this accredited journalist stated clearly that there was no attack whilst he was with him. You can read Jim Orr's account here: https://x.com/MrJimOrr/status/1722285996778443003?s=20 So carry on pretending the SUN were referring to all ex-armed forces personnel. I will continue to stand by my opinion. End of. It's not sexist. Anybody can witter.

12th November 2023, 07:06 AM	#207
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 57,139	Do stop lying, Vixen. Originally Posted by Vixen Rubbish. Darat called me a moron No, he didn't. Quote: and zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering' No, it isn't. Quote: because they either wittingly or unwittingly, failed to understand the context of my post was the SUN newspaper article, frothing at the mouth and demanding protection for this 78-year-old beret-wearing poppy seller. Why do you think it made so much about his OLD AGE and assumed frailty, pictured in his poxy beret and army surplus gear, other than to make its readers assume this old guy was an elite war hero? Maybe simply because 78 is actually quite old? I can't explain why you should have leapt to the conclusion he was meant to be an elite war hero (where did that come from?). Quote: The SUN must have known all along that the Parachute Regiment/Signallers 78-year-old veteran's story was not verified as there was a journalist with him at the time and this accredited journalist stated clearly that there was no attack whilst he was with him. Whether the report of an attack was accurate has no bearing on your assertion that a veteran must have been in WWII.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

12th November 2023, 07:20 AM	#208
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 38,056	Originally Posted by Vixen Rubbish. Darat called me a moron... He didn't. Quote: ...and zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering'... Porkie. It isn't, and this has already been pointed out to you. Quote: ...because they either wittingly or unwittingly, failed to understand the context of my post was the SUN newspaper article, frothing at the mouth and demanding protection for this 78-year-old beret-wearing poppy seller. Why do you think it made so much about his OLD AGE and assumed frailty, pictured in his poxy beret and army surplus gear, other than to make its readers assume this old guy was an elite war hero? The SUN must have known all along that the Parachute Regiment/Signallers 78-year-old veteran's story was not verified as there was a journalist with him at the time and this accredited journalist stated clearly that there was no attack whilst he was with him. You can read Jim Orr's account here: https://x.com/MrJimOrr/status/1722285996778443003?s=20 So carry on pretending the SUN were referring to all ex-armed forces personnel. I will continue to stand by my opinion. End of. Did the Sun story say he was a WWII veteran? Nothing you have posted here supports that.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

12th November 2023, 07:25 AM	#209
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 34,483	Originally Posted by zooterkin Do stop lying, Vixen. No, he didn't. No, it isn't. Maybe simply because 78 is actually quite old? I can't explain why you should have leapt to the conclusion he was meant to be an elite war hero (where did that come from?). Whether the report of an attack was accurate has no bearing on your assertion that a veteran must have been in WWII. The term 'Veteran' is not a protected title (such as 'Police Officer', for example). So, therefore you DO have to look at context. I explained my reference to context earlier so shan't repeat it.
	__________________ who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig

12th November 2023, 07:26 AM	#210
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 30,954	Originally Posted by Vixen Rubbish. Darat called me a moron ... Now, if only there were a way to search the thread to check on this ... hmm ...
	__________________ "There ain't half been some clever bastards" - Ian Dury

12th November 2023, 07:29 AM	#211
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 38,056	Originally Posted by Vixen The term 'Veteran' is not a protected title (such as 'Police Officer', for example). Indeed, so its use is not restricted to WWII veterans. Quote: So, therefore you DO have to look at context. I explained my reference to context earlier so shan't repeat it. Did the context include a statement that he was a WWII veteran?
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

12th November 2023, 07:47 AM	#212
MarkCorrigan ¡No pasarán! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Слава Україні Posts: 12,740	Originally Posted by Vixen The term 'Veteran' is not a protected title (such as 'Police Officer', for example). So, therefore you DO have to look at context. I explained my reference to context earlier so shan't repeat it. He is a veteran. Just not a world war 2 veteran. ETA: Provide evidence of darat calling you a moron and evidence of wittering being sexist, or indeed genderen at all. Hint, he didn't and it isn't, you're just lying to try to shame the people pointing out your errors again.
	__________________ Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data. It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz When I give food to the poor, they call me a Saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a Communist. - Hélder Câmara Last edited by MarkCorrigan; 12th November 2023 at 07:49 AM.

12th November 2023, 08:06 AM	#213
Andy_Ross Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 46,390	Originally Posted by Vixen The term 'Veteran' is not a protected title (such as 'Police Officer', for example). So, therefore you DO have to look at context. I explained my reference to context earlier so shan't repeat it. The context being anyone that has served in H.M. Forces. I think we've flogged this enough now. Time to let it go folks.
	__________________ Formerly known as Captain Swoop

12th November 2023, 08:28 AM	#214
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 34,483	Originally Posted by Mojo Indeed, so its use is not restricted to WWII veterans. Did the context include a statement that he was a WWII veteran? For crying out loud, the whole story was fake. Without the freaking real-life strawman in his Parachute Regiment* outfit telling fibs about being kicked and punched, THERE WAS NO STORY. It was just an excuse to wind up the masses. Quote: Prime minister Rishi Sunak even intervened. He told the Sun: “I am appalled that some poppy sellers – many veterans who are the heart of our collective remembrance each year – have experienced intimidation and abuses when volunteering at train stations.” The British Transport Police criticised “misleading” information in the media, and said there was no evidence of poppy sellers being targeted. The Royal British Legion said there was no shortage of poppy sellers, with numbers up on last year, and poppy sales at all mainline stations. It said there had been no increase in reports about sellers being intimidated, abused or punched, and no volunteer had been asked by the charity to wear a body camera for their protection. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-poppy-sellers So he could just as well identify as a cat as a para. But carry on. 'The SUN was right'. *If this guy really was a Signaller who did periodical stints with the Parachute Regiment, claiming to have served in 'the troubles' in Northern Ireland, then he was likely involved the 1971 Ballymurphy massacre of unarmed civilian demonstrators. Yes, comparisons are odious, and there is no doubt those who served in NI were immensely courageous in the face of hidden dangers, but it is arguable that this service was of the same heroic magnitude as those who died in the muddy trenches of the Somme, alone and far away from home.
	__________________ who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig Last edited by Vixen; 12th November 2023 at 08:36 AM. Reason: Corr

12th November 2023, 08:47 AM	#215
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 38,056	Originally Posted by Vixen *If this guy really was a Signaller who did periodical stints with the Parachute Regiment, claiming to have served in 'the troubles' in Northern Ireland, then he was likely involved the 1971 Ballymurphy massacre of unarmed civilian demonstrators. Yes, comparisons are odious, and there is no doubt those who served in NI were immensely courageous in the face of hidden dangers, but it is arguable that this service was of the same heroic magnitude as those who died in the muddy trenches of the Somme, alone and far away from home. They wouldn't fall within your definition of "veteran" either.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

12th November 2023, 09:57 AM	#216
Andy_Ross Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 46,390	Originally Posted by Vixen *If this guy really was a Signaller who did periodical stints with the Parachute Regiment, claiming to have served in 'the troubles' in Northern Ireland, then he was likely involved the 1971 Ballymurphy massacre of unarmed civilian demonstrators. Yes, comparisons are odious, and there is no doubt those who served in NI were immensely courageous in the face of hidden dangers, but it is arguable that this service was of the same heroic magnitude as those who died in the muddy trenches of the Somme, alone and far away from home. What bollocks you spout. He would have been attached to the Air Assault Brigade, he was not part of the Parachute Regiment and wouldn't have served anywhere with them.
	__________________ Formerly known as Captain Swoop

12th November 2023, 10:08 AM	#217
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 15,289	Originally Posted by Andy_Ross GB News official verdict from Darren Grimes on the Saturday At 5 news show. is that "Suella Braverman must have had her crystal ball polished to perfection because she predicted the chaos we've seen unfold" Apparently she warned us about two-tier policing and the pro-Palestine protests taking place on Armistice Day. There was no chaos. There were some minor disturbances, a small amount of arrests, a few police were injured and there was a lot of shouting. That is not chaos.
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12th November 2023, 10:37 AM	#218
Carrot Flower King Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 4,183	Never mind Wittering, where are Unman and Zigo? (As up to date with my cultural references as ever...)

12th November 2023, 10:43 AM	#219
Garrison Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: UK Posts: 6,101	Originally Posted by Nessie There was no chaos. There were some minor disturbances, a small amount of arrests, a few police were injured and there was a lot of shouting. That is not chaos. If that constituted chaos and serious disorder then every football match in the UK should played in an empty stadium because the risk there dwarfs that at the march.
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12th November 2023, 10:52 AM	#221
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 34,483	Originally Posted by Andy_Ross <snip invective> He would have been attached to the Air Assault Brigade, he was not part of the Parachute Regiment and wouldn't have served anywhere with them. Citation? The 16 unit Air Assault Brigade was formed in 1999, when Henderson would have been 53. He claims to have served in Northern Ireland 'during the troubles' and this was from 1969 - 1998. If he had any connection to the Parachute Regiment as he claims, then this was the regiment involved in the Ballymurphy massacre in 1971. He would have been 25-ish.
	__________________ who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig

12th November 2023, 10:56 AM	#222
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 34,483	Originally Posted by Nessie There was no chaos. There were some minor disturbances, a small amount of arrests, a few police were injured and there was a lot of shouting. That is not chaos. It was well-policed. However, I have to disagree somewhat that there 'were some minor disturbances'. The breach past the police by demonstrators to get to the Cenotaph was a serious one IMV. The police were supposed to have prevented this, so something seriously went wrong, in that respect. Training gap there.
	__________________ who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig

12th November 2023, 11:15 AM	#223
Garrison Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: UK Posts: 6,101	Originally Posted by Vixen It was well-policed. However, I have to disagree somewhat that there 'were some minor disturbances'. The breach past the police by demonstrators to get to the Cenotaph was a serious one IMV. The police were supposed to have prevented this, so something seriously went wrong, in that respect. Training gap there. You mean the breach by the EDL thugs who were only there because the Home Secretary whipped them up? They had nothing to do with the march which went nowhere near the Cenotaph.
	__________________ So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/ And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX

12th November 2023, 12:20 PM	#224
junkshop Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Behind you Posts: 1,810	Originally Posted by Vixen ... zooterkin used the sexist terminology 'wittering' ... What are you prattling on about? Your blithering about some imagined gender-specific aspect to the word 'wittering' is just ignorant blather.
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12th November 2023, 12:27 PM	#225
Andy_Ross Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 46,390	Originally Posted by Vixen Citation? The 16 unit Air Assault Brigade was formed in 1999, when Henderson would have been 53. He claims to have served in Northern Ireland 'during the troubles' and this was from 1969 - 1998. If he had any connection to the Parachute Regiment as he claims, then this was the regiment involved in the Ballymurphy massacre in 1971. He would have been 25-ish. Air Assault Brigades were first formed in WW2. Signals units have been attached to air assault brigades since they were formed. Obviously by his age he served in the 1970s. There were signals units attached to Air Assault Brigades in the 1970s. He was obviously not part of a unit formed in 1999. One regimental battalion of the Parachute regiment served in Northern Ireland. There was never an Air Assault Brigade deployed in Northern Ireland. If he served in Northern Ireland it was not with the parachute regiment, it would have been as part of a separate signals unit.
	__________________ Formerly known as Captain Swoop

12th November 2023, 12:51 PM	#226
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 30,954	Originally Posted by junkshop What are you prattling on about? Your blithering about some imagined gender-specific aspect to the word 'wittering' is just ignorant blather. And Darat didn't call her a moron. The only times that word occurs in this thread is in her complaint and denials by others. eta: And it hasn't been shunted to AAH either.
	__________________ "There ain't half been some clever bastards" - Ian Dury Last edited by GlennB; 12th November 2023 at 12:53 PM.

12th November 2023, 01:04 PM	#227
Andy_Ross Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 46,390	Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid.
	__________________ Formerly known as Captain Swoop

12th November 2023, 01:10 PM	#228
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 30,954	Originally Posted by Andy_Ross Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid. Can someone slip a funnelweb spider in his sleeping bag, please?
	__________________ "There ain't half been some clever bastards" - Ian Dury

12th November 2023, 01:22 PM	#229
Gulliver Foyle Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 2,833	Originally Posted by Andy_Ross Grant Shapps on BBC this morning, saying when Britain bombed Dresden in WW2 we killed 35,000 civilians. He goes on to make it clear the UK govt fully backs what Israel is doing Does anybody pay attention to what Corinne Stockheath says?
	__________________ Ceterum autem censeo Factio Republicanus esse delendam

12th November 2023, 02:29 PM	#230
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 44,237	Originally Posted by Andy_Ross Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid. Ugh. I didn't think I could want to watch that program any less than I already do, but here we are.

12th November 2023, 03:33 PM	#231
Gulliver Foyle Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 2,833	Originally Posted by Andy_Ross Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid. Why? Given Russia's no longer paying, he'd have done it for tuppence ha'penny.
	__________________ Ceterum autem censeo Factio Republicanus esse delendam

12th November 2023, 03:36 PM	#232
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 57,139	Does this mean he can re-open his Coutts account?
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

12th November 2023, 04:48 PM	#233
junkshop Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Behind you Posts: 1,810	Originally Posted by Andy_Ross Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid. Come on Australia's notoriously deadly fauna, this is your chance to shine!
	__________________ Hobbyist receipt-keeper, fake cockney Dick Van Dyke cosplayer, and forum boss Last edited by junkshop; 12th November 2023 at 04:48 PM. Reason: Errant comma

12th November 2023, 04:48 PM	#234
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,904	Originally Posted by Andy_Ross Nigel Farage has just landed in Australia after signing a £1.5 million deal to appear on I'm A Celeb, the highest fee ever paid. Like Australia didn't have enough poisonous invertebrates already.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,904	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

12th November 2023, 04:51 PM	#235
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,904	Originally Posted by Orphia Nay Ugh. I didn't think I could want to watch that program any less than I already do, but here we are. It'll be the first time that the kangaroo anus has been more appealing than what's eating it.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,904	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

12th November 2023, 04:59 PM	#236
junkshop Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Behind you Posts: 1,810	Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer It'll be the first time that the kangaroo anus has been more appealing than what's eating it. That's debatable. The 'first time' bit, I mean.
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