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Old 6th November 2023, 12:24 AM   #41
Brainster
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Here's the dilemma; how do the Democrats get Biden to announce he's not running, and that he's not endorsing Kamala? That's the real sticking point because she polls even worse than Biden against Trump.
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Old 6th November 2023, 12:49 AM   #42
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shouldn't the Thread title be "2024 Election Threat "?
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Old 6th November 2023, 02:05 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
how do the Democrats get Biden to announce he's not running, and that he's not endorsing Kamala?
They're not at his mercy. They're behind him. They're how he got into the position he's in now, not the other way around.
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Old 6th November 2023, 02:22 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Fix your quote codes, TA, you've blurred my words with yours.
Outside the edit window, so I've asked the Mods to edit.

(If you think mine's bad, check out Darat! Let's blame the software.)

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
shouldn't the Thread title be "2024 Election Threat "?
Good point!
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Old 6th November 2023, 02:36 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Nobody should debate with Trump. Trump doesn't debate, he doesn't listen, he doesn't take his turn, he doesn't follow the agreed rules, he is just plain bullying rude and he just talks over everyone all the time. The only way he believes how to win is to be the narcissistic turd in the punch-bowl and ruin the debate, not make points or argument.

So everyone on both sides, and all the mainstream TV channels, should just ignore any attempt to engage with him in any debate-like situation, even if their event is utterly contrived and stage-managed for public consumption.

It's never a debate with Trump, it's a chance for him to have snarky interruption fest and get the focus on himself. It would be a loudmouth game of pigeon-chess, with the pigeon taking selfies while he tossed the board.
The Biden's campaign response to all calls for a debate should be a simple "I don't debate with a loser." And repeat that one single line time and time again.
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Old 6th November 2023, 03:18 AM   #46
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If it came to a debate, IMO, The Fat Orange Turd starts with a distinct disadvantage. Biden might be getting a bit shaky on his pins, but he is still pretty sharp mentally compared with The Fat Orange Turd.

I've been keeping score, and so far I have yet to see Biden make any gaffes that even remotely compare with these corkers from the prolapsed orange anus.
  1. Telling Americans that covid can be cured by shining a light inside the body, or by drinking/injecting bleach.
  2. Claiming that wind turbines cause cancer.
  3. Telling a crowd he was addressing in Sioux City, Iowa, how happy he was to be in Sioux Falls (which is in South Dakota).
  4. Telling a crowd that George Washington's Continental Army were able to beat the British in 1781 because they captured all the British Airfields.
  5. Claiming Victor Orban is the president of Turkey (he's actually the Prime Minister of Hungary - Recep Erdogan is the President of Turkey).
  6. Claiming that whales are being killed by wind turbines.
  7. Telling an audience he beat Obama in the 2016 election (he ran against Hillary Clinton).
  8. Claiming that Jeb Bush got the US into the war in Afghanistan (It was George W. Bush).
  9. Claiming you need ID to buy a loaf of bread.
  10. Claiming that Finnish President Sauli NiinistŲ told him they prevent forest fires by raking the forest floor (NiinistŲ denies having ever said this).
  11. Warning that Biden would get the US into World War II.
  12. Addressing a gathering of thousands of Boy Scouts with a rambling speech about cocktail parties and rich people having sex on boats.
  13. Drawing on a hurricane map with a Sharpie.
  14. Suddenly realizing after 70+ years that the initials "US" is made up of the same two letters as the word "us".
  15. Saying he met with the president of the Virgin Islands......think about it
  16. Wanting to buy Greenland and causing a diplomatic crisis when Denmark refused to sell.
  17. Saying he would build a border wall...... in Colorado.
  18. Suggesting we should "nuke hurricanes".

In a debate Biden would wipe the floor with him - The Fat Orange Turd knows this, which is why he will never agree to do so.
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Old 6th November 2023, 04:09 AM   #47
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The best analogy for a debate with Trump is "wrestling with a pig." All that happens is you get dirty and the pig loves it.
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Old 6th November 2023, 07:15 AM   #48
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Biden and Trump are both known quantities. The factors that contributed to Biden's win in 2020 have only been enhanced by events since. Biden's had an adequate presidency; he's no FDR but he's kept the democratic pilot light on. Whereas Trump's burning through allies almost as fast as he burns through lawyers. Not-Biden v Trump or Biden v Not-Trump, you could argue people might flock to or shy away from the new person, but if it's 2020 2: 2024, it'll be Biden's game to lose.

Mainstream media no longer affords Trump any benefit of the doubt, the way they bent over backwards in 2016 to cover his outbursts in a favorable way. Instead he's gotten so unhinged even Fox News doesn't want to give him airtime. He'll never have another debate in a non-friendly environment. He's not even showing up for primary debates anymore.

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Old 6th November 2023, 07:48 AM   #49
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David Axelrod calling for Biden to drop out.
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Old 6th November 2023, 09:37 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
The best analogy for a debate with Trump is "wrestling with a pig." All that happens is you get dirty and the pig loves it.
Exactly .. democrats need someone who can wrestle a pig any day of the week. Biden is not that.
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Old 6th November 2023, 04:02 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Outside the edit window, so I've asked the Mods to edit. .... Let's blame the software.) ...
I blame not proof reading your post. You need not look for every typo but people can do a quick check to see if videos play, links work and quote codes are right. It wasn't software, you missed a bracket.

Other typos and board software deciding what word you meant to type are usually easily read over ignoring the typo.
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Old 6th November 2023, 04:28 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
If it came to a debate, IMO, The Fat Orange Turd starts with a distinct disadvantage. Biden might be getting a bit shaky on his pins, but he is still pretty sharp mentally compared with The Fat Orange Turd.

I've been keeping score, and so far I have yet to see Biden make any gaffes that even remotely compare with these corkers from the prolapsed orange anus.
  1. Telling Americans that covid can be cured by shining a light inside the body, or by drinking/injecting bleach.
  2. Claiming that wind turbines cause cancer.
  3. Telling a crowd he was addressing in Sioux City, Iowa, how happy he was to be in Sioux Falls (which is in South Dakota).
  4. Telling a crowd that George Washington's Continental Army were able to beat the British in 1781 because they captured all the British Airfields.
  5. Claiming Victor Orban is the president of Turkey (he's actually the Prime Minister of Hungary - Recep Erdogan is the President of Turkey).
  6. Claiming that whales are being killed by wind turbines.
  7. Telling an audience he beat Obama in the 2016 election (he ran against Hillary Clinton).
  8. Claiming that Jeb Bush got the US into the war in Afghanistan (It was George W. Bush).
  9. Claiming you need ID to buy a loaf of bread.
  10. Claiming that Finnish President Sauli NiinistŲ told him they prevent forest fires by raking the forest floor (NiinistŲ denies having ever said this).
  11. Warning that Biden would get the US into World War II.
  12. Addressing a gathering of thousands of Boy Scouts with a rambling speech about cocktail parties and rich people having sex on boats.
  13. Drawing on a hurricane map with a Sharpie.
  14. Suddenly realizing after 70+ years that the initials "US" is made up of the same two letters as the word "us".
  15. Saying he met with the president of the Virgin Islands......think about it
  16. Wanting to buy Greenland and causing a diplomatic crisis when Denmark refused to sell.
  17. Saying he would build a border wall...... in Colorado.
  18. Suggesting we should "nuke hurricanes".

In a debate Biden would wipe the floor with him - The Fat Orange Turd knows this, which is why he will never agree to do so.
I forgot about the Boy Scouts thing.

About the running against Obama, with Trump's mental illness he will never forget being embarrassed about Obama's birth certificate at the White House Correspondents' Dinner. All the things Trump did when he got into office was to get even with Obama, trying to undo everything Obama had done. So I imagine 6 or 7 years later it's becoming conflated in Trump's mind that he ran against and defeated Obama.
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Old 6th November 2023, 04:32 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
David Axelrod calling for Biden to drop out.
Book sales are ebbing, he needs to inject himself into the news stream.
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Old 6th November 2023, 04:50 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
David Axelrod calling for Biden to drop out.

Let's take a look at what he said.


Quote:
President Biden Says He Feels Good

David Axelrod, who served as a senior adviser to former President
Barack Obama suggested that President Joe Biden may want to reconsider
his reelection bid, as he potentially faces another race for the White House
against former President Donald Trump. ďIt's very late to change horses.
A lot will happen in the next year that no one can predict. Biden's team
says his resolve to run is firm.Ē

Oh, it's way too late to change horses now.
If you did then you'd just wind up with a bunch of old nags.


Quote:
"Only Joe Biden can make this decision," Axelrod added. "If he continues
to run, he will be the nominee of the Democratic Party. What he needs
to decide is whether that is wise? Whether it's in his best interest or
the country's?"

Probably not in his best interest, but the country could do worse that him.


Quote:
"Yes, there also is risk associated with changing course now, as there
is little time left for a primary campaign ó and campaigns are how we
test candidates. But there is a lot of leadership talent in the Democratic
Party, poised to emerge," Axelrod added, referencing Florida Governer
Ron DeSantis' 2024 presidential bid.

I'm not convinced Ron DeSantis represents the leadership talent poised to emerge in the Democratic Party.
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Old 6th November 2023, 05:20 PM   #55
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
If it came to a debate, IMO, The Fat Orange Turd starts with a distinct disadvantage. Biden might be getting a bit shaky on his pins, but he is still pretty sharp mentally compared with The Fat Orange Turd.

I've been keeping score, and so far I have yet to see Biden make any gaffes that even remotely compare with these corkers from the prolapsed orange anus.
  1. Telling Americans that covid can be cured by shining a light inside the body, or by drinking/injecting bleach.
  2. Claiming that wind turbines cause cancer.
  3. Telling a crowd he was addressing in Sioux City, Iowa, how happy he was to be in Sioux Falls (which is in South Dakota).
  4. Telling a crowd that George Washington's Continental Army were able to beat the British in 1781 because they captured all the British Airfields.
  5. Claiming Victor Orban is the president of Turkey (he's actually the Prime Minister of Hungary - Recep Erdogan is the President of Turkey).
  6. Claiming that whales are being killed by wind turbines.
  7. Telling an audience he beat Obama in the 2016 election (he ran against Hillary Clinton).
  8. Claiming that Jeb Bush got the US into the war in Afghanistan (It was George W. Bush).
  9. Claiming you need ID to buy a loaf of bread.
  10. Claiming that Finnish President Sauli NiinistŲ told him they prevent forest fires by raking the forest floor (NiinistŲ denies having ever said this).
  11. Warning that Biden would get the US into World War II.
  12. Addressing a gathering of thousands of Boy Scouts with a rambling speech about cocktail parties and rich people having sex on boats.
  13. Drawing on a hurricane map with a Sharpie.
  14. Suddenly realizing after 70+ years that the initials "US" is made up of the same two letters as the word "us".
  15. Saying he met with the president of the Virgin Islands......think about it
  16. Wanting to buy Greenland and causing a diplomatic crisis when Denmark refused to sell.
  17. Saying he would build a border wall...... in Colorado.
  18. Suggesting we should "nuke hurricanes".

In a debate Biden would wipe the floor with him - The Fat Orange Turd knows this, which is why he will never agree to do so.
If you want to go further back add claiming he could see people jump from the WTC from his window when it wasn't visible from his window
Claiming he went to Ground Zero and was helping out, and he claimed he brought a workforce with him that Trump paid wages for.
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Old 6th November 2023, 05:23 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'd say it's far more dangerous to put an unscripted Trump in front of cameras as evidenced by his inability to talk about anything other than how the election was stolen from him, he's a victim of witch hunts and the most persecuted person in history...
That's probably why his polling numbers are so terrible.

Oh, wait...
You're really fixated on these polling numbers from one poll. But you ignore that polls are not reliable. Taken the week before the 2020 election, 13 polls had Biden up anywhere from +1 to +11. That's some spread!
In the week before the 2016 election, the top 13 polls had Clinton winning in all but one.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
In fact, the more idiotic things he says, the more they like him. I would have expected that to be obvious by now. The things he did on the campaign trail in 2016 were unforgivable, and he won comfortably. Why do you think things are going to change now?
What's obvious is that Trump lost by a greater margin in 2020 than he did in 2016 when people were willing to give "a great businessman" a chance, before he supported an attack on our Capitol and went batcrap crazy with his election fraud lies. Do more people approve of how he handled the pandemic? Do more people think the election was rigged and stolen from him ? Do more people think he's being persecuted in four different jurisdictions on trumped up charges? Why do you think that has changed now?



Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Be aware that I have no dog in this fight - I'm able to look at it as a casual observer.
I highly question that. Your posting history says otherwise.


Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You're quite right that people who should be supporting Biden are calling him senile, though. How do you think that's going to play out?
Those who are calling him senile have their own reasons for doing so, mainly political. It's mostly Republicans and far left extremists with a Debbie Downer attitude for anything/anyone not as far left as they are. I don't see many Dems calling him senile except those with a personal agenda or, frankly, have an affinity for stirring the pot or being contrary.

Statements like "it's clear the opinion of Biden is that he's senile," and "The picture in that article screams that Biden should be in aged care, not the White House. Trump will make him look positively geriatric in the debates," are opinions that do nothing but help Trump.




Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
That was my point - he's winning and Biden's losing. In a sane world, Trump would be polling in single digits. He's not.
If you look at other polls in the last month, most have Biden winning.
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Old 6th November 2023, 07:20 PM   #57
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Today in court:

Quote:
NY attorney: Did you get copies of statements in 2021?

Donald Trump: I was so busy in the White House with China, Russia, and keeping the country...

NY attorney: You were not the President in 2021.
And BIDEN is the senile one?

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Old 6th November 2023, 09:51 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
FTFY



They aren't forgiving Trump's gaffes anymore than they 'forgive' his 3 marriages, grab 'em by the pussy, his being hell-bent on revenge or any other fault Trump has. They are in denial.



He brags about accomplishments he never accomplished, he pretends to love and read the Bible, you name it, the cult followers are in denial. Watch any of Jordan Klepper's Finger's the Pulse to see what these idiots actually believe. It's not about rational 'forgiveness'.
They are baffling. Did you know Trump never lies?

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Old 6th November 2023, 10:53 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
I'm not convinced Ron DeSantis represents the
leadership talent poised to emerge in the Democratic Party.
Axelrod's point was that a primary campaign tests candidates, and that many (like apparently DeSantis) are considered strong contenders until they actually have to go out and gets some votes.
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Old 6th November 2023, 11:10 PM   #60
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I'm still annoyed that no serious alternative to Biden has stepped up.

A Democratic governor, or senator, under the age of 70 and with no major disqualifying problems. Anyone?? Time's running out. There are deadlines coming up I think for getting on the ballot in certain states.

I do not consider RFK Jr. or Marianne Williamson to be serious alternatives, especially the former. He's just a crank who appeals more to the right than the left.
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Old 6th November 2023, 11:10 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Axelrod's point was that a primary campaign tests candidates, and that many (like apparently DeSantis) are considered strong contenders until they actually have to go out and gets some votes.
Come on Brainy, Axelrod is trying to boost book sales. Do you think he had some urgent need out of the blue to tell the public to get another Democratic POTUS candidate?
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Old 7th November 2023, 02:35 AM   #62
The Atheist
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It wasn't software, you missed a bracket.
Yes, that was so obvious I tried a light-hearted response after asking for it to be fixed. I guess some people don't understand.

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You're really fixated on these polling numbers from one poll. But you ignore that polls are not reliable.
Are you ok there?

Why on earth would I not ignore unreliable polls?

Nate Silver weighs polls by reliability to try to give the most accurate picture.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...ident-general/

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Why do you think that has changed now?
My best reasoning is that Americans are even dumber than I thought. I did say that in a sane world, Trump would be on single digits, but he clearly is not. The trend shows him improving his support, which is insane, but I have to accept it's happening. Biden's approval numbers are absurdly low and failing to improve.

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I highly question that. Your posting history says otherwise.
And you're clearly making things up now. Show me one post where I've supported anything Trump ever said or did.

On the other hand, here are some threads I started on Trump:

Criminal charges against Trump

Mocking Trump's schooling


Mocking his family

Why Trump is worse than Hitler


Mocking Trump's reading skills

Seriously, your idea that I'm in some way supporting Trump is completely insane. Next time, actually read my posts before deciding what you think they say.

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Those who are calling him senile have their own reasons for doing so, mainly political. It's mostly Republicans and far left extremists with a Debbie Downer attitude for anything/anyone not as far left as they are. I don't see many Dems calling him senile except those with a personal agenda or, frankly, have an affinity for stirring the pot or being contrary.
Yeah, right.

Biden makes himself look senile - he doesn't need anyone to make him look bad.

62% of Americans believe Biden is mentally unfit to be president. Hell of a lot of Debby Downers in America as well as a heap of outright morons I guess.

The whole blame lies with the Democrats for not having a successor.
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Old 7th November 2023, 04:51 AM   #63
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I’m starting to see a pattern here for Democrats. They are hurting themselves politically because they are stubborn about retiring due to old age, and complacent voters are OK with that.

Example 1: Roe v Wade is gone because RBG didn’t retire when she had the chance.

Examples 2: Ted Kennedy and Diane Feinstein

Example 3: We just might get another 4 years of Trump because Biden didn’t know when to hang it up and complacent democratic primary voters rubber stamped it. And it’s probably going to be worse than the first Trump term. It’ll be Trump without the training wheels and without any adults to constrain his worst impulses.
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Old 7th November 2023, 04:52 AM   #64
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If the bad polls continue I expect pressure will build on Biden to withdraw and he might just do it.

Lots of younger Dem governors out there who can do the job AND not look like a severally flawed geriatric on the debate stage with Trump.
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Old 7th November 2023, 04:54 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Iím starting to see a pattern here for Democrats. They are hurting themselves politically because they are stubborn about retiring due to old age, and complacent voters are OK with that.

Example 1: Roe v Wade is gone because RBG didnít retire when she had the chance.

Examples 2: Ted Kennedy and Diane Feinstein

Example 3: We just might get another 4 years of Trump because Biden didnít know when to hang it up and complacent democratic primary voters rubber stamped it. And itís probably going to be worse than the first Trump term. Itíll be Trump without the training wheels and without any adults to constrain his worst impulses.
Feinstein, RBG, Kennedy. You may have a point there.
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Old 7th November 2023, 06:12 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Iím starting to see a pattern here for Democrats. They are hurting themselves politically because they are stubborn about retiring due to old age, and complacent voters are OK with that.

Example 1: Roe v Wade is gone because RBG didnít retire when she had the chance.

Examples 2: Ted Kennedy and Diane Feinstein

Example 3: We just might get another 4 years of Trump because Biden didnít know when to hang it up and complacent democratic primary voters rubber stamped it. And itís probably going to be worse than the first Trump term. Itíll be Trump without the training wheels and without any adults to constrain his worst impulses.
The presidency is a bit different from the rest. Most candidates can last two terms and likely Biden will . But he is not the only president with this being a major item in voters' mind. Reagan was. He was badly senile and was only able to go thru the second campaign by being a good actor. He read the teleprompter or a speech off a sheet of paper. The second term was run mainly by Nancy Reagan's psychic.
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Old 7th November 2023, 08:17 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I'm still annoyed that no serious alternative to Biden has stepped up.

A Democratic governor, or senator, under the age of 70 and with no major disqualifying problems. Anyone?? Time's running out. There are deadlines coming up I think for getting on the ballot in certain states.
They've all seen what the party machine does to anyone who opposes it. The problem isn't the lack of people to take the spotlight against Biden. It's that the show is really run by the background people we don't see doing it, and they're still stuck on Biden. (I'd say they were "in the shadows" because it fits the spotlight/show analogy, but it sounds too dramatic. ) And they'll never admit that his problems are problems because they have the same problems themselves.

Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I do not consider RFK Jr. or Marianne Williamson to be serious alternatives, especially the former. He's just a crank who appeals more to the right than the left.
He's left the party now, so he can't affect the party's primary/caucus process. And having him in the general election probably helps Biden by hurting both him and Trump but hurting Trump more.

And she's been getting over 10% support, which is doing spectacularly well for someone with 0% of the press coverage or access to party infrastructure that she's supposed to get. But the fact that the party machine can have that effect by freezing out whoever they decide not to let people take seriously is the perfect example of the problem. The party is run by bidens (lowercase) and has decided that it will do whatever it takes to deny anybody else even the slightest opportunity. And the other people who would be candidates know this.

Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
We just might get another 4 years of Trump because Biden didnít know when to hang it up and complacent democratic primary voters rubber stamped it.
We are definitely heading for another Trump "presidency", but the Democratic voters aren't being given any other choice by the party. It's the party politicians who've been refuse to let the voters have any choices.

Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
If the bad polls continue I expect pressure will build on Biden to withdraw and he might just do it.
This looks to me like vastly underestimating both Biden's own personal compulsion to have this and the party's responsiveness to an oncoming predictable loss (which they've never done anything to avoid before in the last decade or two).

Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Lots of younger Dem governors out there who can do the job AND not look like a severally flawed geriatric on the debate stage with Trump.
If Biden were to quit or die, it would be Gavin. He's already been getting Presidential-candidate-like press coverage which they describe as "positioning himself" for a run for President, and Kamala has even scarier poll results than Biden but without Biden's "everybody in power in this party just happens to be just like me" factor. And the only way Gavin has said he's not running has been as an opponent to Biden, which means carefully not denying that he'd run if Biden were out. He's like DeSantis, just waiting in the background for the guy in front to get out of his way.
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Old 7th November 2023, 09:04 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
In the week before the 2016 election, the top 13 polls had Clinton winning in all but one.
As can be seen in your link, the RCP average had Clinton up by 3.2%.

Clinton won by 2.1%, so the polls were awfully close to the final result.

That's the popular vote that Clinton won. National polls predict the popular vote. As the 2016 election reminded us, winning the popular vote is not the same as winning the Electoral College.

The recent poll that kicked off this discussion is alarming precisely because it is not a national poll, but a poll of the swing states that were critical for Biden's 2020 victory in the Electoral College.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Nate Silver weighs polls by reliability to try to give the most accurate picture.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...ident-general/
Although fivethirtyeight.com does indeed weight polls by assessed reliability, and that process began under the direction of Nate Silver, Nate Silver is no longer associated with fivethirtyeight.com.
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Old 7th November 2023, 09:10 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I’m starting to see a pattern here for Democrats. They are hurting themselves politically because they are stubborn about retiring due to old age, and complacent voters are OK with that.

Example 1: Roe v Wade is gone because RBG didn’t retire when she had the chance.

Examples 2: Ted Kennedy and Diane Feinstein

Example 3: We just might get another 4 years of Trump because Biden didn’t know when to hang it up and complacent democratic primary voters rubber stamped it. And it’s probably going to be worse than the first Trump term. It’ll be Trump without the training wheels and without any adults to constrain his worst impulses.

The numbers don't quite add up as Dobbs v Jackson was a 6-3 vote. Unless you are making the case that Roberts would've voted the other way had their been a 4th liberal justice on the court. That seems unlikely to me.

ETA: we know Harris does worse than Biden in polling against Trump, despite the fact she is much younger. I haven't seen much in the way of Newsom v Trump. We don't know that there are any other candidates out there that would perform better than Biden in an election versus Trump. There is no logical reason for anyone to pick Trump over Biden simply due to age. Then again, voters aren't always logical.

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Old 7th November 2023, 09:34 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I'm still annoyed that no serious alternative to Biden has stepped up.

A Democratic governor, or senator, under the age of 70 and with no major disqualifying problems. Anyone?? Time's running out. There are deadlines coming up I think for getting on the ballot in certain states.
Delvo's right. The word has gone out that anybody challenging Biden is persona non grata. The concern is that they'll end up like Ted Kennedy in 1980, wounding the President and setting him up for defeat in the general election. Of course, one could wonder if the real lesson of 1980 that a President weak enough to attract a serious challenger inside his party is doomed to lose in November.

BTW, one of the poll results had Trump losing to a "generic" (unnamed) Democrat by 8 points. Of course, there's no such thing as a generic Democrat; all of them have strengths and weaknesses. But I do think Trump would have a tougher time against Gavin Newsom or a Phil Murphy.

Still, at this point the only way Biden's getting out of the race is if he croaks.
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Old 7th November 2023, 09:39 AM   #71
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If you're gonna switch horses, you better pick the right horse. The election is a year and several convictions away yet, and if the dems are to switch candidates, they need evidence that the switch is legit. Another trump presidency will fully seal the notion that he will do all the things people claim he can't wouldn't shouldn't do.

Remember that time when he tried to steal your vote, claiming you were dead, illegal and voted twice? Yeah, so do I.
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Old 7th November 2023, 09:43 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
If you're gonna switch horses, you better pick the right horse. The election is a year and several convictions away yet, and if the dems are to switch candidates, they need evidence that the switch is legit. Another trump presidency will fully seal the notion that he will do all the things people claim he can't wouldn't shouldn't do.

Remember that time when he tried to steal your vote, claiming you were dead, illegal and voted twice? Yeah, so do I.
It is a sign to me, that we are truly in bizarro world, beardy Spock mirror universe, times that it just doesn't seem like that many people really care all that much that he tried to steal their vote and subvert democracy. We should, as a nation, be WAY WAY WAY angrier IMO.
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Old 7th November 2023, 10:18 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Delvo's right. The word has gone out that anybody challenging Biden is persona non grata. The concern is that they'll end up like Ted Kennedy in 1980, wounding the President and setting him up for defeat in the general election. Of course, one could wonder if the real lesson of 1980 that a President weak enough to attract a serious challenger inside his party is doomed to lose in November.
When and where did this "word" go out, and what did the "word" say?

Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
BTW, one of the poll results had Trump losing to a "generic" (unnamed) Democrat by 8 points. Of course, there's no such thing as a generic Democrat; all of them have strengths and weaknesses. But I do think Trump would have a tougher time against Gavin Newsom or a Phil Murphy.

Still, at this point the only way Biden's getting out of the race is if he croaks.
Generic candidates have no baggage and no platform or record to critique. They're literally a figment of the imagination so they can have any atributes that can be imagined. The one thing they cannot do is actually run in the election.

And who the hell is Phil Murphy???
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Old 7th November 2023, 10:51 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
And itís probably going to be worse than the first Trump term. Itíll be Trump without the training wheels and without any adults to constrain his worst impulses.
I think "probably" is a bit mild.

If he gets that desk in the White House back, the serious **** will start from day 1.

Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
Although fivethirtyeight.com does indeed weight polls by assessed reliability, and that process began under the direction of Nate Silver, Nate Silver is no longer associated with fivethirtyeight.com.
Yes, I'm aware of that disappointing development.
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Old 7th November 2023, 11:10 AM   #75
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Folks, friends, fellow lovers, I’ve said it once or twice or 30 times. There is no perfect candidate, there are only those who’ve revealed their weaknesses and those whose weaknesses we’ve yet to discover. Biden’s weaknesses don’t matter, because the imaginary “better candidate” to go up against Trump will have flaws a’plenty.

And whether it’s Biden, candidate X, or the last McDonalds cheeseburger sold in Iceland, I will always pick Not Trump. The rest is just crumbs.
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Old 7th November 2023, 11:33 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
When and where did this "word" go out, and what did the "word" say?
Didnít the party have a written policy that they would black list any vendor who helped a candidate who tried to primary an incumbent in the last election? That seems a pretty clear word.



Quote:
Generic candidates have no baggage and no platform or record to critique. They're literally a figment of the imagination so they can have any atributes that can be imagined. The one thing they cannot do is actually run in the election.

And who the hell is Phil Murphy???
I had a conference call with Phil Murphy yesterday, but I donít think itís the same guy.
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Old 7th November 2023, 11:55 AM   #77
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The election is a year away. I'd still guess Biden has a better chance of winning than Trump, but this is like Clinton lamenting she's only ahead by a few points when she should be up by 50. Trump and the Republicans are criticizing Biden every day. The Democrats are keeping their powder dry on Trump because they want him to be the nominee. He's the weakest Republican opponent. After Trump is coronated, the criticisms will be unrelenting. A bottomless pit of money will blanket the landscape with ads. He staged a coup. He was convicted. He cheats in business and in politics. He's lied about losing elections since Iowa in 2016. Here's John Kelly, Bill Barr, Liz Cheney, Dick Cheney, John Bolton, and a list of Republicans who say he's dangerous, dumb, and incompetent. "This time there will be no adults in the room" blah blah blah.

Yes, Trump could win. He has always over-performed relative to the general election opinion polls. In terms of swinging the Electoral College, the election was closer in 2020 than 2016. If only 22,000 Biden supporters in three states flipped to Trump, Cheeto Von Tweeto would have remained in office. In terms of the debates, I expect at least one will happen. Everybody says the best way to defeat Biden is to just let him talk, but Trump can't help himself.
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Old 7th November 2023, 12:29 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Iím starting to see a pattern here for Democrats. They are hurting themselves politically because they are stubborn about retiring due to old age, and complacent voters are OK with that.

Example 1: Roe v Wade is gone because RBG didnít retire when she had the chance.

Examples 2: Ted Kennedy and Diane Feinstein

Example 3: We just might get another 4 years of Trump because Biden didnít know when to hang it up and complacent democratic primary voters rubber stamped it. And itís probably going to be worse than the first Trump term. Itíll be Trump without the training wheels and without any adults to constrain his worst impulses.
And how about McConnell not retiring?? His staff covers up for his brain damage by whisking him away.

It's a human trait, not a politically influenced trait.
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Old 7th November 2023, 12:32 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I’m starting to see a pattern here for Democrats. They are hurting themselves politically because they are stubborn about retiring due to old age, and complacent voters are OK with that.

Example 1: Roe v Wade is gone because RBG didn’t retire when she had the chance.

Examples 2: Ted Kennedy and Diane Feinstein

Example 3: We just might get another 4 years of Trump because Biden didn’t know when to hang it up and complacent democratic primary voters rubber stamped it. And it’s probably going to be worse than the first Trump term. It’ll be Trump without the training wheels and without any adults to constrain his worst impulses.
And how about McConnell not retiring?? His staff covers up for his brain damage by whisking him away.

And I'm not convinced Trump isn't slipping away with senility plus his mental illness plus the stress he's under. The news media's narratives are influencing people's perceptions. Just wait until Trump blows his top over being outed as a dishonest crook in his NY case.

It's a human trait, not a politically influenced trait.
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Old 7th November 2023, 01:58 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And how about McConnell not retiring?? His staff covers up for his brain damage by whisking him away.

It's a human trait, not a politically influenced trait.
The rules that apply to the Democrats do not apply to the GoP. One is a cult, the other needs a broad coalition of reasonable minded people to vote for them to win.

It is without a doubt, not fair.
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